From another thread:

quote Originally posted by jstricker: If it were me, I would try to mimic a stock caddy auomatic's ratios as closely as possible. Remember that effectively, the stock auto IS a 5 speed when you consider the lock up converter as the 5th gear. We cruise at 70 mph in the Finale at just under 2,000 rpm so that's where I'd try to place 5th. I agree with the poster (Will??) that doesn't like the very low first and wide 1-2 shift. I don't think you'll bog going into second, but first will most likely be worthless to you given the ratios you posted. Stock ratios are 2.92 First, 1.57 Second, 1.00 Third, and .705 Fourth. When our converter locks up in 4th, we drop about 250 rpm, so that indicates to me that you need to add some gearing to each of those and then figure a .705 Fifth with the computer locked up. Just as a WAG, let's say that's 11%, since we drop from about 2250 to 2000 rpm. That makes our new spread: First 3.24 Second 1.74 Third 1.11 Fourth .78 Fifth .705 For the spreads you posted, there is a significant difference. You actually have a bit smaller drop between the 1-2 shift from stock, in %, but I still contend that a 3.43 first gear is going to be nearly useless to you. All of this also depends on what final drive ratio you are running. If you are using something like a 3.07, that would mitigate this problem somewhat, but not eliminate it. Your ratios are much tighter in the upper gears and you're going to be turning a higher rpm on the highway. John Stricker

quote Originally posted by Will: What was incongruous was that you wanted a cruiser with optimized gearing. A cruiser is a car with no specific purpose. Therefore, gearing can not be optimized. If you're not going to take it to a road course and not going to autoX the car, then custom gearing just isn't worth the effort. Extra tall low gears useable on a road course, for instance, are going to hurt the car's off the line performance. Just build the hybrid 4 speed outlined above, try it, and then decide if you want custom gears. It is NOT trivial. There's plenty of room in the case for taller 1st gear. Not sure about final, though.

I'm going to give it a try. I believe I have found a 3.32 econo tranny. Amazingly enough it one of the parts cars. I still have to confirm for sure but its a base model 84 with no options. With any luck I'll be spliting the case on the 3.65 tonight to see what kind of space we have to work with in the final drive area. I'll post pics when I have some. I'm hoping to have room for a 3.06 or even 2.97 final. We'll see....

Ok. Finally got the 3.65 case split.

Looks like its been opened before. All the gears looked great. They all show very little wear.

I did notice that the VSS gear is blue. I have never seen this before.

Anyways. Looks like there is very little room at make a larger final drive. Also counted the teeth. 84 teeth on ring gear, 23 teeth on pinion gear. (84/23=3.65) I'm not even sure how the 3.32 will fit at the moment. Guess I won't know til I find one and see how its setup. Here are the pics...

3.65 (?) final muncie V6 4 speed:





A second 84 base coupe has turned up at the shop. I am now armed with the RPM code and 5th vin # along with the trans case code of "DJ" and "NA". I'll check them out this weekend and any others I can find. With any luck I will come home with an econo trans this weekend and see what can be built. Otherwise the search will be on for a citation trans... More to come as I have it. Wish me luck!

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 08-01-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: Anyways. Looks like there is very little room at make a larger final drive. Also counted the teeth. 84 teeth on ring gear, 23 teeth on pinion gear. (84/23=3.65) I'm not even sure how the 3.32 will fit at the moment. Guess I won't know til I find one and see how its setup. Here are the pics...

You might want to rethink what you think you know. 3.32 has a smaller ring gear than 3.65. The diameter difference is all but imperceptible unless you put the gears right on top of each other.

quote Originally posted by Will: You might want to rethink what you think you know. 3.32 has a smaller ring gear than 3.65. The diameter difference is all but imperceptible unless you put the gears right on top of each other.

I was just coming back to correct my statements earlier but I didn't actually say it wouldn't fit, just that I couldn't see if working. Thanks for clearing that up Will. As usual your expertise shows.

I also came to the same conclusion this weekend after a couple discussions with some other people that actually DO know transmissions. I now know so much more about this transmission its not even funny... its really not. Also, since the guy that was going to make the gears for me didn't know that, I don't think I will let him touch the trans after all.

No econo's at the shop or in the parts cars. For that matter, none in any of the fieros we have around. I have one more option for a fiero econo and should know in the next couple days. If that doesn't work I'll look for an 80-81 citation/phoenix trans. If no go there, I will just install the 3.65 and be done with it. Not worth any more trouble then that and I would rather start on my next swap anyways. Thanks for all your help everyone.

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 08-03-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Fieroseverywhere: I also came to the same conclusion this weekend after a couple discussions with some other people that actually DO know transmissions. I now know so much more about this transmission its not even funny... its really not. Also, since the guy that was going to make the gears for me didn't know that, I don't think I will let him touch the trans after all.

What did you learn?

quote Originally posted by Will: Potential problem areas for very tall final drives in the Muncie case are limited to PINION clearance about the output shaft inner bearing, next to the diff in this picture.

I still believe that one could make approx. a 2.97 final fit. There is a bit of clearance but I don't think I would even attempt anything larger then that. Either way I am abandoning this project for reasons stated below.

1: With no hope of finding either a fiero econo or citation/phoenix trans in sight, I have decided to go a different route. This car is going backward to becoming a "toy" again and I am going to rebuild the 88 5 speed coupe to use as a daily driver. The gas mileage will be above anything the 4.9 ever had a chance of getting and now I can focus it more on performance. Since making the custom gears is now out of the picture there is little left to do. Maybe I will find an econo someday and do a swap but I'm no longer actively searching.

2: Since the trans case is split and the car is being taken off daily driver duty I may install some kind of LSD and take it from there. Either way the 3.65 will go in using stock gearing. If you have suggestions feel free to toss them out there. Looking into GR8Grip at the moment...

3: As of this weekend my daughter is coming to live with me full time. This is WAY more important to me then any trans project. This will require some re-arranging and possibly a quick move to a new house. It takes full priority in every way. A bit of a last minute suprise but I am very happy none the less.

www.car-parts.com should make it easy for you to find the transmissions you want. Building the hybrid outlined above is not very difficult and should give you good results with your 4.9.

quote Originally posted by Will: www.car-parts.com should make it easy for you to find the transmissions you want. Building the hybrid outlined above is not very difficult and should give you good results with your 4.9.

I'll check them out. (EDIT: I have an order in with them. I was rediculously specific. Still waiting while they look.) Thank you for all your help Will. Once I get one I'll start a thread, but it could be a while. I can "play nice" with the isuzu for the time being and if needed install a second one. Car is going to need some re-working to the exhaust for the 4spd swap. I'll need 2-3 days to get everything done while the cradle is dropped. Probably take an extended labor day weekend.

My daughters mom has lost it. Gone completely off the deep end. Probably some institution time in her hear future... I am taking my daughter in full time as of saturday (she is staying with her aunt until I can get down to her). As you can imagine the trans has fallen way down on the list of priorities.

First up - Get my daughter and give her a big hug. Get her home, safe, and registered for school that starts in about a month. School clothes shopping, ect, ect.

Next - Get a bigger place. We were planing to buy a house at the end of the year but have moved the date up to the next month or two. Money will be a bit tighter then I like unless I sell a couple fieros. Which I was planing to do anyway. If any one in interested there are about 12 up for grabs...

[This message has been edited by Fieroseverywhere (edited 08-07-2008).]