Is it okay to prime a new oil pump with just vaseline? It was fully packed but it doesn't want to start pumping. After a minute I had to shut the car off. The valves were getting pissed. Thanks for any input.
Marc

[This message has been edited by Gokart (edited 08-24-2008).]

I've never primed one with pure vaseline. (A 2.8 anyway) Use it as a plug to keep lube in pump with no problems.
What engine?
I do somewhat recall it's use in 3.8's but I can't recall it it recomended it as a total prime material or not.

seems to me it would be like "forcing" sludge up into the oil galleries that wouldn't melt till it warmed up. in the meantime I would think it would BLOCK fresh oil from the bearings/ lifters ect. & it would be like running the engine DRY untill the vasaline melted out of the way. Just my oppinion.

quote Originally posted by Indiana_resto_guy: I've never primed one with pure vaseline. (A 2.8 anyway) Use it as a plug to keep lube in pump with no problems. What engine? I do somewhat recall it's use in 3.8's but I can't recall it it recomended it as a total prime material or not.

Just a stock 2.8
I did some searching here and I see most are also priming it after with a drill on the distributer shaft?!?

[This message has been edited by Gokart (edited 08-23-2008).]

thats what I always use to prime an oil pump.

quote Originally posted by turboguy327: thats what I always use to prime an oil pump.

....and I've seen vaseline being used in numerous archived threads as well but I'm also seeing spinning the shaft with a drill too. Do I need to remove the sending unit if I do this? I saw one thread where the valve covers were removed to see the oil coming out. Did that last year to replace the gaskets and I'll get an engine swap before I ever have to get to those again
Blacktree's method in this thread seems easy enough? https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...040223-2-038699.html

[This message has been edited by Gokart (edited 08-23-2008).]

Why did you plug up your new oil pump with vaseline for?
As long as you didn't pack the pick up tube, we should be able to get you out of this without pulling the oil pan again. You can try one of two priming methods. You can pull the distributor and prime from there, many threads on this,
or pull ECM fuse, Fuel pump fuse, spark plugs and spin the engine over.

My thought is to perform a combination of the two methods because priming from distributor flows oil without the friction of non-oiled parts rotating. Follow up with a series of engine spins w/o fuel pump, ECM, plugs until you are sure you have good oil flow up to the rockers.

[This message has been edited by jetman (edited 08-24-2008).]

quote Originally posted by jetman: Why did you plug up your new oil pump with vaseline for? As long as you didn't pack the pick up tube, we should be able to get you out of this without pulling the oil pan again. You can try one of two priming methods. You can pull the distributor and prime from there, many threads on this, or pull ECM fuse, Fuel pump fuse, spark plugs and spin the engine over. My thought is to perform a combination of the two methods because priming from distributor flows oil without the friction of non-oiled parts rotating. Follow up with a series of engine spins w/o fuel pump, ECM, plugs until you are sure you have good oil flow up to the rockers.

The p/u tube wasn't packed. I'll try both tomorrow. By "spinning the engine over" do you mean hand cranking it? Will I lose the timing by doing this?

quote Originally posted by Gokart: The p/u tube wasn't packed. I'll try both tomorrow. By "spinning the engine over" do you mean hand cranking it? Will I lose the timing by doing this?

Here is a thread about priming with the drill method,,,,,
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...050818-2-062192.html

Index your distributor before you take it out, put it in the exact same position as it came out, just like you would if you are replacing a pick up coil. You are not turning over the engine at all with the drill prime method, only accessing the oil pump through the distributor.

I'm going to reverse myself here,,,,

Go ahead and try second method I mentioned. Pull plugs, ecm fuse and fuel pump fuse and use starter to spin engine. This isn't the middle of winter, the vaseline should be more than pliable, give the engine a series of spins, you should be ok, watch for oil in the valve covers.

[This message has been edited by jetman (edited 08-23-2008).]

Man, you guys crack me up. Vaseline has been used to fill oil pumps to prime them longer than half of you have been alive.
it thins right out with oil. the proper way has always been to pack the pump, them spin the pump with a drill on a freshly rebuilt motor.
the vaseline just sticks better to help prime the pump, and get the oil from the pan flowing. you never start a fresh motor without priming it. NEVER. that is the single most important thing to do, not the"break in" bs. if you can;t seem to figure out how to drill prime it, at the very least, kill the fuel and spark and crank it up til you see pressure on your guage. proper assembly lube can carry the motor thru til the oil gets pressurized.

quote Originally posted by jetman: I'm going to reverse myself here,,,, Go ahead and try second method I mentioned. Pull plugs, ecm fuse and fuel pump fuse and use starter to spin engine. This isn't the middle of winter, the vaseline should be more than pliable, give the engine a series of spins, you should be ok, watch for oil in the valve covers.

I just tried this and nothing

I've had this old distributer in my shed for years.

Maybe I can't use this for priming because it's missing the bottom?

[This message has been edited by Gokart (edited 08-24-2008).]

IIRC, a 10mm socket will grab the pump shaft nicely. I used a 1/4" deep socket, a 12" extension, and a 1/4" adapter to run it in a drill. start and run slowly, as there is an oil passage right in that dist hole, and it can erupt out. when you get good constant flow out of that wihtout air sputter, you're done.

quote Originally posted by tjm4fun: IIRC, a 10mm socket will grab the pump shaft nicely. I used a 1/4" deep socket, a 12" extension, and a 1/4" adapter to run it in a drill. start and run slowly, as there is an oil passage right in that dist hole, and it can erupt out. when you get good constant flow out of that wihtout air sputter, you're done.

So I don't need to have a distributer in place? I'll try it! Also, I hope I wasn't supposed to make any modifications to the baffle in my oil pan!? The pump came with these instructions but I'm positive I got the tube and screen exactly where they need to be.

Make sure you have enough oil in the engine too! Lol, I had to overfill the crankcase a little until the oil was high enough to get into the pump for priming. I did not use the vaseline method. Like tjm4fun, I used a socket with 2 extensions and my air wrench to spin the oil pump shaft.

quote Originally posted by Hudini: Make sure you have enough oil in the engine too! Lol, I had to overfill the crankcase a little until the oil was high enough to get into the pump for priming. I did not use the vaseline method. Like tjm4fun, I used a socket with 2 extensions and my air wrench to spin the oil pump shaft.

I got plenty of oil in there. At least 4.5 quarts. Should I put the plugs back in before I spin the oil shaft?

edit: I REALLY appreciate all this help! As usual I find I cannot own a Fiero without you all and this forum

[This message has been edited by Gokart (edited 08-24-2008).]

ive always just used a long extention on an electric screwdriver, never failed...
turns fast enough to prime, but not fast enough to send oil gushing outa any holes :P

Leave the plugs in, only the oil pump spins, not the whole engine. The oil pump shaft (make sure you did not forget to install it, lol) is a 6 sided piece that fits perfectly on a 5/16" socket. You will feel the drill or whatever you use bog down a bit as the oil pump gets pressure. You will also see oil coming out of a hole inside the distributor hole, near the top.

[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 08-24-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Hudini: Leave the plugs in, only the oil pump spins, not the whole engine. The oil pump shaft (make sure you did not forget to install it, lol) is a 6 sided piece that fits perfectly on a 5/16" socket.

The shaft is there I'll put the plugs back in then. I had them out and the ecm and fuel pump fuses pulled when I was trying the other method. I will post my results later. I guess there were no modifications necessary to the oil pan baffle then?
Thanks again, Marc

[This message has been edited by Gokart (edited 08-24-2008).]

I got lucky with mine. I went down to a local speed shop and he loaned me one. I used it with my 1/2 inch drill and ran it for 2 minutes then turned the crand 1/2 turn and spun it for another 2 minutes. This put oil out both banks of rockers and gave me 40 psi of oil pressure. Not bad for a drill
The only thing I would do different is turn it over several times with the plugs out but other than that it worked great.

** this was a used motor that had been sitting and was unknown. I did remove the oil pan and checked as much as I could. The oil pump was new so after cleaning it out I just put it back in with some STP oil treatment for a prelube. After 2 years I still have 40 PSI when the motor is hot at idle.

quote Originally posted by Gokart: The shaft is there I'll put the plugs back in then. I had them out and the ecm and fuel pump fuses pulled when I was trying the other method. I will post my results later. I guess there were no modifications necessary to the oil pan baffle then? Thanks again, Marc

Did you get oil pressure spinning the engine with plugs out? You really should have got pressure to register on the gauge, maybe not at first but with a couple series of cranks with the starter.

quote Originally posted by jetman: Did you get oil pressure spinning the engine with plugs out? You really should have got pressure to register on the gauge, maybe not at first but with a couple series of cranks with the starter.

Absolutely none! Didn't leave 0 one bit. Maybe I have a defective pump?
Marc

If it's new then odds are it's working. I had to put about 6 quarts in the pan to get the pump itself into the oil, not just the pickup tube. The vaseline is supposed allow the oil pump to pickup the oil right away though.

I also cut the oil pan baffle like you. Since I used a high flow pump, the pick up tube was hitting the baffle before cutting. It also makes it easier to remove the pan with the engine still in the car.

quote Originally posted by Hudini: If it's new then odds are it's working. I had to put about 6 quarts in the pan to get the pump itself into the oil, not just the pickup tube. The vaseline is supposed allow the oil pump to pickup the oil right away though. I also cut the oil pan baffle like you. Since I used a high flow pump, the pick up tube was hitting the baffle before cutting. It also makes it easier to remove the pan with the engine still in the car.

No, I didn't remove or modify anything in the oil pan. Was I supposed to?
I made sure the screen was just right though using the modeling clay method.
Marc

It's not required to modify the baffle using the Fiero pickup tube and regular oil pump. It's just that I used the high volume pump and the pick up tube off the 3.4L engine I have installed. This is what made the cutting necessary for me. I believe the instructions are written for many different applications so they may not apply to you.

I've used the hex socket, long extension, and hand drill method successfully with the 2.8. But for future reference, I recently noticed that Harbor Freight now sells an inexpensive set of oil pump primer tools. Given the price, that's probably what I'll use next time.

Okay, here's the latest. I got good action with a 1/2 drill and extensions on the shaft. I observed the pressure through the back window go as high as 45. I did this for about 2 minutes. Saw plenty of oil coming through the galley inside the distributer hole but I couldn't get any to flow into the valve covers but figured I was all set. I then wanted to try the first method I used to prime by removing the plugs, ecm and fuel pump fuses but after turning the key a few times the oil light stayed on and the pressure never left 0. After getting good action by spinning the shaft shouldn't I have seen the needle leave zero trying it this way? I'm going to install the plugs I guess and try starting it again unless I hear otherwise?
Marc

I am a fan of the drill method but I use an old distributor that had a broken base plate. Then I removed the pick-up and coil and ground the end of the shaft down to fit my standard 3/8" drill head.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: I am a fan of the drill method but I use an old distributor that had a broken base plate. Then I removed the pick-up and coil and ground the end of the shaft down to fit my standard 3/8" drill head.

I got the drill spinning as fast as possible so I'm wondering what difference it would've made if any spinning directly on the shaft versus an old distributer? If anyone thinks it may then I'll take the parts one I posted above and conform it to do this. I highly doubt it will make any difference though seeing how I had the pressure up aound 45 and saw oil flowing through the galley in the distributer hole. I just don't get it! How can I be getting the pressure spinning the shaft but none when I crank the key with the plugs, ecm and fuel pump fuses removed

Your oil pump is fine.

You need to have the distributor in the engine. The gears on distributor will turn the oil pump via the hex shaped shaft.

If that is your old distributor in the above picture you're missing the hex shaped shaft at the bottom.

[This message has been edited by jetman (edited 08-24-2008).]

quote Originally posted by jetman: Your oil pump is fine. You need to have the distributor in the engine. The gears on distributor will turn the oil pump via the hex shaped shaft. If that is your old distributor in the above picture you're missing the hex shaped shaft at the bottom.

Then I guess I cannot use it for anything. What do you suggest I do next? Sacrifice my existing distributer to get this thing primed? I'm willing to and buy a new one before I have to get to that G.D. oil pan again!

Ha! You put this the same time I quoted your previous post

quote Originally posted by jetman: C'mon GoKart,,,, oils well that ends well?

I hope I can say this when it's over!

[This message has been edited by Gokart (edited 08-24-2008).]

You had oil pressure with the drill method so the engine is primed.

The difficulties lay somewhere with the distributor. Take some pictures, lets see whats up, ok?

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: I've used the hex socket, long extension, and hand drill method successfully with the 2.8. But for future reference, I recently noticed that Harbor Freight now sells an inexpensive set of oil pump primer tools. Given the price, that's probably what I'll use next time.

Which one would be used on the 2.8?

The one on the right is at my local Autozone for free rental but when I looked at it I couldn't see how that would fit onto the shaft or the distributer.

[This message has been edited by Gokart (edited 08-24-2008).]

hmm how would you do this on a dohc where the head covers the oil drive? Also oil pump primers ads are on the page..

quote Originally posted by jetman: You had oil pressure with the drill method so the engine is primed. The difficulties lay somewhere with the distributor. Take some pictures, lets see whats up, ok?

I'm wondering if the shaft is the problem then? Maybe the parts store gave me the wrong one and it's not going up into the distributer? I used the one the pump came with but it may be different than my stock one. I'm assuming the shaft can be removed for inspection through the distributer hole? Doubt the pic will tell anything.

I'll remove it tomorrow and insert the oem one if you think it may be worth trying? I guess anythings worth trying so I do not have to remove that pan again.

Here's a pic of the distributer I took with my timing mark.

It's not the oem distributer because I had to replace it about a year ago but I doubt that makes any difference.

[This message has been edited by Gokart (edited 08-24-2008).]

I've never heard of priming an oil pump. What I have heard of is priming the hydraulic lifters prior to setting the valves. What I used was a drill extension piece that simply hooked to the end of the hexagon rod and I added a rubber sink plug with a hole in the center to keep the splashing down. I then ran the drill a couple of minutes with minimal mess and primed my lifters. I guess the pump, being a centrifugal unit primed itself. I don't think it operates like the old pump at the farm well.

Arn

quote Originally posted by Gokart: I got the drill spinning as fast as possible so I'm wondering what difference it would've made if any spinning directly on the shaft versus an old distributer? If anyone thinks it may then I'll take the parts one I posted above and conform it to do this. I highly doubt it will make any difference though seeing how I had the pressure up aound 45 and saw oil flowing through the galley in the distributer hole. I just don't get it! How can I be getting the pressure spinning the shaft but none when I crank the key with the plugs, ecm and fuel pump fuses removed

Get a mechanical oil pressure gauge from the auto store. Any cheap thing will do. Put it into the oil pressure sending unit location and watch the gauge as you vary the speed of your drill. If your pump is working fine then you will see good pressure readings (40-70 psi). IF your pump is worn then no matter how fast it is spinning you will have problems.

If your pump is OK and your oil pressure is low then your bearings are gone. Time to rebuild the engine.


Note also, oil pressure will always be higher when your engine is cold.

[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 08-24-2008).]

I have read this a few times. when you are trying to get pressure by spinning the motor over with no plugs in it, I HOPE YOU DO HAVE THE DISTRIBUTOR INSTALLED ! if you don't, theres nothing to turn the shaft. if you are getting pressure using the drill, theres nothing wrong with the pump. the cam gear drives the distributor, the distributor drives the hex rod going to the pump. IS the distributor engaging the hex rod ?