quote Originally posted by RCR: What's wrong with this type of joint? Or this one in particular? This is the style that Darth recommends for his 3800 swaps. I was just going to piuck one up, so I'd like to hear about any issues. TIA, Bob

that was the original plan but when i went to buy them from "SPD performance" they told me they stopped selling them because of too many failures. i started asking around and that seemed to be the general concensus. so the "buick ball joint" was suggested and i am going to try it but it is purely an experiment. i have no expectations at this time. at least the leaks will be near the end of the exhaust and if i can't hear them it will be ok. there will be protection around the area for heat if needed.

Thanx for the heads-up Snoop...I'll look further into Darth's solution. My application should have very little movement, so it may work.

+'s abound

Bob

RCR, thanks for the +'s and back atcha. i expect my setup is going to move about .5" to .75 near the rear of the car. that was too much for me to trust the bellows.

ok, here are the other two mounts. the first two pics are of the rear mount. the next three are of the lower middle mount. I hope that adds up to over-kill. there are seven mounts total.

Gonna put a nice moment on the crossmember. It's prolly fine, though.

quote Originally posted by Will: Gonna put a nice moment on the crossmember. It's prolly fine, though.

I hope it does ok. it would be nice to have a little video cam back there to watch how much twist and flex is going on...

after getting those last mounts welded up the engine went back into the car just to make sure it would fit. it did but not by much in the front. then the engine came back out and all the bolt on stuff was removed for cleaning and painting.

next, the oil filter adaptor was mounted. this engine did not come with an oil cooler adaptor so I will try it without.

the rear cover was removed and a hole was carefully cut for a cheap $2.49 press in oil cap.

then the spec flywheel was bolted on along with the starter.

it turns over nicely. the compression check is next...

big sigh. number 8 cyl is flat. that and a very noticable amount of oil/sludge build up on the exhaust valve stems leads me to believe that the engine is a 7 cylinder... oh well, looking on the bright side, I will be looking for a good 4.6 to put in the car instead.

Wow, Charlie that really suck, so sorry to hear that!!! To bad you can't go back to the guy and complain. I guess you now know why they sold it. I can still get them Northstar motors here in Indiana complete with motor, PCM, wiring harness, alternator,AC compressor. It maybe to much for shipping all that way and its a bit of a drive. Unless you can't find one for under $1100.00. Let me know if you need it?

------------------
Bobby from NW Indiana
93 Northstar and 5 speed Getrag
219customs@verizon.net
My 86 GT build thread
MY 88 Northstar build thread

Thanks for the offer Bobby,

I'll have to see what I can do. I told my wife about it and her first words were something to the effect of getting the money back for this engine. I had to explain that the guy sold it as is. He implied that he thought it was a good engine but I knew that I was taking a risk. I just did not know until later when I was doing my homework on the Northstars that they don't work on them, they just replace them. That's why there are many used warranty engines around and very few parts available. The second thing she said is that we don't have enough money to buy a another one right now. Well, I have to admit she is right about that. We just got back from vacation and will be paying that off for awhile. So, unless I find someone willing to part with an engine for really cheap this project is on hold until I can save up a grand or two.

quote Originally posted by cptsnoopy: big sigh. number 8 cyl is flat. that and a very noticable amount of oil/sludge build up on the exhaust valve stems leads me to believe that the engine is a 7 cylinder... oh well, looking on the bright side, I will be looking for a good 4.6 to put in the car instead.

aww man.... well the good news is there's a LOT of them on ebay, I just checked! Couple of them are going for cheap! I'll PM you the links if you want...

heh... now I see why they're cheap - they're all rebuilders..... ahh well. btw - I got my engine for $800 on ebay from a salvage yard, runs like new, with 67k on it. Had it shipped in from las vegas... Deals are out there, you just have to be quick on your feet with cash in hand.

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 04-20-2005).]

very nice. i think this is the 1st 4.0 i have seen on here. didn't they use these motor in irl? get u some indy cams also i believe alot of the 4.0 parts intercgange with the 4.6.

quote Originally posted by cptsnoopy: big sigh. number 8 cyl is flat. that and a very noticable amount of oil/sludge build up on the exhaust valve stems leads me to believe that the engine is a 7 cylinder... oh well, looking on the bright side, I will be looking for a good 4.6 to put in the car instead.

Doing a valve job on a 32V engine is an absolute WHORE of a job, but if you think it's valves you could do that...
And toss in a set of CHRF springs for a little insurance against the 3-2 upshift.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 04-20-2005).]

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/051161.html

Thanks Ryan,

I looked at ebay and will continue to do so. I even asked Alan at chrfab if he had any used 4.6's for sale and he did not. I did send Ronnie a PM but I doubt if he would be willing to sell his engines for the money I have right now. I will have to save up for several months to even get close.

Thanks dohcfiend,

As it turns out the IRL engines don't have any interchangable parts with the regular 4.0L N*. Your right about some of the parts fitting on the 4.6L N*. That is why I am going to look for a 4.6 so that I will get more power and not have to change any of the fabrication done so far.

Hi Will,

I told Alan that if he could sell me a used engine I would have him put the springs and retainers in but I guess all of his used engines are apart for a full rebuild. I am pretty sure that my #8 cyl has blow by because both of the valve stems have alot of oil/carbon on them. It was able to pump up to 70psi but then you could here a hiss every time the compression stroke came around. If it where only one oily valve stem I would think it might be a leaky valve. So I am thinking it is the bottom end. If it were a 4.6 I would consider rebuilding it.

It will be no loss for you to at least pull the head off and see what you can see.

quote Originally posted by cptsnoopy: It was able to pump up to 70psi but then you could here a hiss every time the compression stroke came around. If it where only one oily valve stem I would think it might be a leaky valve. So I am thinking it is the bottom end. If it were a 4.6 I would consider rebuilding it.

Can you tell where the "hiss" is coming from? If it seems to come from the throttle body it's an intake valveproblem. if the hiss comes from the exaust manifold it's an exaust valve. If you can't tell, it could also be a head gasket that has blown out the side (but unlikely).
I seriously doubt that it's a ring seal problem, but if you pour a tablespoon of oil onto the offending cylinder and do another comp test you'll know. if the compression goes up with the oil in there you have a ring problem. if the comp number stays about the same you have a valve problem (or a hole in a piston perhaps).

The valve may just have some carbon deposits holding a valve open a bit. that can happen from an engine sitting for a wile. (moisture swells and loosens the carbon in the combustion chamber). if that's the case it may be curable without pulling the head.

don't give up on it just yet,
Russ

Pull the head off or get a boroscope into the spark plug hole.. you may find something like this:

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20040223-1-031777.html

.....or...... you may just find a chunk of carbon holding open a valve. ....or..... stick a screwdriver in there and see if you can feel the piston

Ryan,
that looked serious! not even core material...

the reason i suspect that the cylinder is bad and not the head is that all the other exhaust valve stems are clean and have a uniform brown tint to them. both #8 cylinder exhaust valve stems are equally covered with a thick coating of oil/carbon which if nothing else indicates to me that this engine was removed for smoking out the pipe and possibly using oil. you are right however in that there is enough carbon gunk that it could be holding the valve open. my main concern is why all the oil residue? what i will do to see if it helps is to get a static compression checker and try to determine where the problem is. i wish i had access to a boroscope. Will, i may take the head off but then i would have to timesert the block and to be honest i can't see spending the time or money on this engine when the 4.6's are much more available and a stronger running engine. can you tell me about how much you had to spend on a head gasket and timeserts? also how difficult was setting the cam gear alignment? did you need special tools?

Russ544,

to be honest i could not tell where the hiss was comming from. there is no intake or exhaust on the engine right now so I will try it again and see if i can figure that one out. this really does look like a low time engine so i am wondering if there is any chance this one cylinder would improve over time... gotta find a boroscope somewhere...

thanks for the support guys.

Good luck!

JG

quote Originally posted by cptsnoopy: gotta find a boroscope somewhere...

"Doc, I know this is gonna sound strange, but I'd like to get my colonoscopy done in my car...... and if it's not too much trouble.............."

Maybe one of your valve seals just failed catastrophically?

quote Originally posted by THE BEAST: cptsnoopy-How big are the pipes that you are using? 3" 2.5"? OD or ID? Thanks! JG

2.25" OD

quote Originally posted by cptsnoopy: Will, i may take the head off but then i would have to timesert the block and to be honest i can't see spending the time or money on this engine when the 4.6's are much more available and a stronger running engine. can you tell me about how much you had to spend on a head gasket and timeserts? also how difficult was setting the cam gear alignment? did you need special tools?

You wouldn't necessarily NEED to time sert if the threads in the block are in good shape. When I did mine, I borrowed the tool kit. About $40 worth of inserts does both banks. You'll need new head bolts (because of the coating on the threads), which come with head gaskets from GM for about $50 a side. If you just pull one head, worst case scenario would be $20 worth of inserts and a $50 gasket/bolt set from GM.... @$$uming you could borrow the tool set, which is $300 new from Time...

Thanks Will, that sounds alot better than I imagined...

these pics are not to great but the first two are of the number 6 cylinder exhaust valve stems. the valves are closed in the first two pictures. these represent the way all of the other exhaust valves look except for the two in the number 8 cylinder. the second two are of the number 8 cylinder exhaust valve stems. the valves are open so you see the clean part that is going in and out of the guide and the rest is covered in oil/carbon gunk.

quote Originally posted by cptsnoopy: The guy here wants $700 for the engine/trans and computer. He says the engine has less than 50K miles on it. I am thinking I should wait for the vin"9" version to become available. What are the differences between the two? Thanks.

20 HP.

So does this mean you're still interested in a solution for the shift cable and slave interference problem with the Isuzu? I'm in the early stages of a VIN 9/Isuzu swap myself and have worked out what I think is a pretty good solution to get around those issues. the fabrication for the parts involved is about 1/2 done, so I should be able to get a pic on here by the end of the weekend if you're interested. I'm using the stock fork, but have clocked it around a few degrees, and reworked the slave mounting bracket to match. For the cables I'm building a pair of bellcranks to re-dirrect them out under the TB.

Russ

quote Originally posted by cptsnoopy: The guy here wants $700 for the engine/trans and computer. He says the engine has less than 50K miles on it.

I would jump on that myself... but then, the engines are scarce and expensive up here. Heck, my engine came from your neck of the woods

quote Originally posted by Russ544: 20 HP. So does this mean you're still interested in a solution for the shift cable and slave interference problem with the Isuzu? I'm in the early stages of a VIN 9/Isuzu swap myself and have worked out what I think is a pretty good solution to get around those issues. the fabrication for the parts involved is about 1/2 done, so I should be able to get a pic on here by the end of the weekend if you're interested. I'm using the stock fork, but have clocked it around a few degrees, and reworked the slave mounting bracket to match. For the cables I'm building a pair of bellcranks to re-dirrect them out under the TB. Russ

I would be very interested to see what you have come up with. I was thinking of using the VW style pull slave to see if I could avoid the bleeding problems that seems to have plauged these things. also i had considered leaving the shift cables were they are and just angling the air intake hose into the TB. my concern with adding any linkage to the shift system is adding more play to the shifter. my sandrail is a single seat model and it uses a bellcrank plate to get from beside the seat to the front of the trany which is directly behind the seat. it works but it is not nearly as nice as the direct rod that the two and four seat sandrails use.

quote Originally posted by cptsnoopy: I would be very interested to see what you have come up with. I was thinking of using the VW style pull slave to see if I could avoid the bleeding problems that seems to have plauged these things. also i had considered leaving the shift cables were they are and just angling the air intake hose into the TB. my concern with adding any linkage to the shift system is adding more play to the shifter. my sandrail is a single seat model and it uses a bellcrank plate to get from beside the seat to the front of the trany which is directly behind the seat. it works but it is not nearly as nice as the direct rod that the two and four seat sandrails use.

I agree that excess play in a bellcrank system is a concern. As I build the various brackets and linkage for the shift linkage I'm attempting to minimise free play and flex as much as possible. It's coming out pretty well so far I think. I just need to fabricate the supports to clamp the cables in position, and do a little cosmetic clean up on it, and the bracket will be finished.
I've clocked the clutch fork around and relocated the clutch slave already. As you can see it ends up in a rather unusual position, and of course the slave will need to be removed from it's bracket in order to bleed the system, but I don't see this as a big deal. I use a MitiVac for both brake and clutch bleeding and really haven't had any of the issues with them that other people report.

Russ

[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 04-23-2005).]

Russ,

that looks really good. I am wondering if you are going to leave the MAF on the TB? I don't think i'll need it since i am using the Holley computer. that is where i was going to get the extra room to angle the inlet pipe.

Ryan,

i called the guy with the deville engine just a few minutes ago and he has already sold it. so in the mean time i am trying to locate a poor man's boroscope to see if i should be removing the head on this aurora. Also I have talked to Ronnie and he is willing to let me check out his engine but someone may offer a better price before i can get to it...

quote Originally posted by cptsnoopy: Ryan, i called the guy with the deville engine just a few minutes ago and he has already sold it. so in the mean time i am trying to locate a poor man's boroscope to see if i should be removing the head on this aurora. Also I have talked to Ronnie and he is willing to let me check out his engine but someone may offer a better price before i can get to it...

Blast! I told you to jump on it! My engine ALONE was 800... that didn't include a tranny or shipping

The transmission is not worth much on ebay - I've seen them go for $80-150... Maybe you can borrow/rent the boroscope from a mechanic or gunsmith? Maybe even an HVAC person? Donno.....

quote Originally posted by cptsnoopy: Russ, that looks really good. I am wondering if you are going to leave the MAF on the TB? I don't think i'll need it since i am using the Holley computer. that is where i was going to get the extra room to angle the inlet pipe.

I plan to use the Commander also, but at this stage, knowing plans can change in mid-stream, I'm making a consious effort to not block or eliminate the future use of any sensors or functions.

RC

quote Originally posted by Russ544: I plan to use the Commander also, but at this stage, knowing plans can change in mid-stream, I'm making a consious effort to not block or eliminate the future use of any sensors or functions. RC

That sounds like a good idea...

Will,

would there be any benefit from using vin-9 heads on the aurora block instead of the stock aurora heads?

.bumpy.

quote Originally posted by cptsnoopy: Will, would there be any benefit from using vin-9 heads on the aurora block instead of the stock aurora heads?

Better airflow and better cams.
Larger chambers and lower compression.
Larger chambers and better airflow go hand in hand as the N* heads have less shrouded valves compared to the Aurora heads. This is done to avoid using dome pistons in the Aurora, as the flat top pistons result in a pretty nice combustion space that domes would screw up.