I love this thread and can't wait to see the final product. I will probably get one some day since I had already planned on getting a finale some day. Keep up the good work Archie.
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11:18 AM
DotTC Member
Posts: 2345 From: Hamlet, North Carolina Registered: Nov 2003
Nope: Way too many $$$ to develope to the point where it will stay on the car under all conditions & if it isn't perfect, way too easy to sue the guy that sold it to you.
Hmmmm......why not avoid that and try that different idea?
As a suggestion: Why no use a 350Z convertable roof? I know that a new roof would cost some $$$$$$'s but if the angle and width is similar to the size of a roofless Fiero...it should be okay? Or maybe a another convertable with ltd space in the back for a lessor reduce or extention of Fiero frame?
Allowing for rear cabin space, the Fiero could then sectioned off between the rear seat and extended out by 12-15"? Just enough for the folding roof to be retracked into the now open space? The angle of the front wind shield could meet where the roof would close?
Is this possible? With all of the knowledge in the shop and past skill along w/skilled labor it seems possible. Besides, how many people would like to drive a complete topless (in sert name here) car 3-4 month out of the year? If you Archie can build a convertable w/a retractable roof.....GM just may have too shut you down for sure! Oh yeah name the car FLS1/spyder. Letters and numbers are much cooler vs. names. But heck what do I know, hehehehe.
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08:04 PM
GKDINC Member
Posts: 1812 From: East Tawas MI Registered: Dec 2001
From a third persons perspective...anything with "PFF" sounds kinda awkward. The Pinnacle has been suggested. I'd like to change the suggestion to the Finale Pennacle. A more subtle approach.
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08:32 PM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
The Report on the PFF Spyder for today is that there is no report. We had other cars to work on today & I had to order the Poly Foam that we are going to use to form mock-up of some of the parts we need.
We have a customer picking up a car this week & 2 more coming in by Tuesday, but We'll put in as much time as we can on the PFF Connection. As you can see in the background of some of the pictures, we are also involved in putting together a 328 replica for a NIFE club member. So we remain very busy.
This expanding foam stuff is really cool & fun to work with. When we do the "Foaming" I'm gonna take a bunch of pics, so I can show you it in action. Don't miss this.
Archie
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08:40 PM
Will-Martin Member
Posts: 1164 From: DFW, TX, USA Registered: Aug 2002
The Report on the PFF Spyder for today is that there is no report. We had other cars to work on today & I had to order the Poly Foam that we are going to use to form mock-up of some of the parts we need.
We have a customer picking up a car this week & 2 more coming in by Tuesday, but We'll put in as much time as we can on the PFF Connection. As you can see in the background of some of the pictures, we are also involved in putting together a 328 replica for a NIFE club member. So we remain very busy.
This expanding foam stuff is really cool & fun to work with. When we do the "Foaming" I'm gonna take a bunch of pics, so I can show you it in action. Don't miss this.
Archie
Sweet - looking forward to it Archie!
--Will
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09:24 PM
Songman Member
Posts: 12496 From: Nashville, TN Registered: Aug 2000
The guys that have never seen this foam in action are going to be loving it.
It's kinda expensive but I predict that several of them go out & buy it just because it's so much fun.
Rob & Kris have never worked with this stuff either, so it's gonna be show & tell when we do the 1st batch. They are both very sharp & well beyond their years in knowing what they're doing working on these cars. So, I enjoy whenever there's a chance to show them something they don't know yet.
This is a great thread. Wonderful idea and plenty of pics to illustrate what's going on. Maybe even a few ideas to incorporate elsewhere. For the PFF connection in the roadster's name, and a play on Pennock's, how about the "Pinnacle". It sounds close to Pennock's, and it the roadster is at the top of it's form. Only the forum members would catch the connection. Other wise the PFF Spyder has my vote. Jim
Originally posted by Archie: And yeah, I can't wait either.
Archie
You sound like a kid with a new toy, Archie. That has to be pretty awesome to be able to do something for a living that you still get excited about after 18 years!
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09:19 AM
OH10fiero Member
Posts: 1541 From: struther OH Registered: Jun 2002
Nope: Way too many $$$ to develope to the point where it will stay on the car under all conditions
Archie
Hey Archie, my suggestion for a top would to work something out with the guys down at B&B Spyder, they did the Targa top for the "DirtyRat" and are experianced with convertable conversions on the Fiero. Bottom line is these guys know thier stuff, besides it never hurts to call or drop an e-mail.
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09:39 AM
AusFiero Member
Posts: 11513 From: Dapto NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2001
I suppose I should do some drawings on how I was going to make the top work on the original design. It is pretty basic, easy to store and put up and strong. Best of all it is installed in the vehicle so it isn't a leave at home option.
I have a question for Archie about the top removal. Did you do any before and after measurements on the change in torsional rigidity when you removed the top? I know you measured the longitudinal rigidity and the structural mods you made were good for that but I'd be interested to know if the structural mods you made did anything for the torsional element. As a side note, I measured the torsional stiffness on my 86 coupe a couple years ago at about 248 K N-m/Rad (3200 ft-lb/deg). As a reference, the 84 C4 Corvette Targa was spec'd at 214 K N-m/Rad, the 85 Corvette convertible was 140 but a 97 C5 without the top was rated at 720 (I guess chassis engineering has made some progress over the years). Our little cars seemed to be pretty stiff for their time.
I'd be interested in seeing this, both the look and the functionality.
Glenn
quote
Originally posted by AusFiero:
I suppose I should do some drawings on how I was going to make the top work on the original design. It is pretty basic, easy to store and put up and strong. Best of all it is installed in the vehicle so it isn't a leave at home option.
On the top.... Why don't you just use the one that was cut off with a few minor changes to it so it will mat up to the windshild header? Like the Miata's have? a removeable hardtop.
Oh and how are you going about making the header cover plate? Maybe incorporate some latches into it?
------------------ 98 3800SC, Getrag 5sp. only one in Austin Texas !
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02:27 PM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
On the top.... Why don't you just use the one that was cut off with a few minor changes to it so it will mat up to the windshild header? Like the Miata's have? a removeable hardtop.
To do that would be very difficult. Even if you could make a top out of the cut-off, you would have to address the method of attaching it to the body. It would need to seal good, be convienent to take on & off, matchup with the side windows & not blow off (and become a frisbee) at 100 mph driving into a 40 mph wind.
Then you'd have to find someone that would be willing to pay the costs it would take to develope.
Today We didn't get a lot of work done on the PFF Spyder, BUT we did get a chance to play with the Foam a little.
Take a little of Part "A" & a little part "B" & We are going to mix these two together & stir. Yes those are 2 McDonalds ice cream cups, which are the official measuring cups of V-8 Archie.
Pour them both into a coffee can & stir with a little paddle thing we made for the electric drill. See it's starting to foam already....
Here it comes.....
Total elapsed time from when the 2 cups were dumped into the coffee can 2 min. 43 sec.
What's the PCF of that foam? That's a polyurethane foam, I've used the 2-3 PCF variety for packing for several years in the past. SFX guys use it for making props, and it can be used for lots of stuff.
Today We didn't get a lot of work done on the PFF Spyder, BUT we did get a chance to play with the Foam a little.
Take a little of Part "A" & a little part "B" & We are going to mix these two together & stir. Yes those are 2 McDonalds ice cream cups, which are the official measuring cups of V-8 Archie.
They also use stuff like that to insulate the fiberglass double-walled boat hulls and sleepers on semi cabs. I used 2 gallons of that stuff in a guys locker in a dorm room. (He broke into my locker, stole a radio, broke it and refused to pay for it.) Needless to say, The day I left he had a big surprise when he got back from class. Just for trivia purposes, 2 gallons will fill a standard U.S. Navy dorm locker from top to bottom.
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11:08 PM
AusFiero Member
Posts: 11513 From: Dapto NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2001
I seen a guy use the foam once for hsi kayaks bouyance and as I drove past I just knew it was worth going around the block a few times as I used the foam a lot in my fibreglass work. He poured in about as much as the area he needed to fill not realising it expands. Well it was worth watching. It was pouring out of the kayak and down onto the driveway when it started to expand and the guy was running around not knowing what to do.
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11:09 PM
NotAFieroAnyLonger Member
Posts: 4413 From: 75762/Texas/USA Registered: Dec 2003
I seen a guy use the foam once for hsi kayaks bouyance and as I drove past I just knew it was worth going around the block a few times as I used the foam a lot in my fibreglass work. He poured in about as much as the area he needed to fill not realising it expands. Well it was worth watching. It was pouring out of the kayak and down onto the driveway when it started to expand and the guy was running around not knowing what to do.
Did his eye's look like this..?? ----->
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11:55 PM
Aug 26th, 2004
AusFiero Member
Posts: 11513 From: Dapto NSW Australia Registered: Feb 2001
I seen a guy use the foam once for hsi kayaks bouyance and as I drove past I just knew it was worth going around the block a few times as I used the foam a lot in my fibreglass work. He poured in about as much as the area he needed to fill not realising it expands. Well it was worth watching. It was pouring out of the kayak and down onto the driveway when it started to expand and the guy was running around not knowing what to do.
Did his eye's look like this..?? ----->
[/QUOTE]
More like this his face looked.
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06:03 AM
PFF
System Bot
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Kind of reminds me of what the auto-dog puts out (auto-dog -- Navy slang for soft-serve ice cream dispenser, so named because it resembles the output of...).
Hmmm...1/4 the amount in Arch's pix ought to be just about right for filling the standard police motorcyle helmet...('s okay...we both have guns, lol)
Is that 2 five gallon black containers full of this stuff? You could pour it on the lawn, let it grow, and sculpt a house out of it.
Thats neat stuff.
You know, you may have something there...use something similar to concrete forms to direct the shape, and fiberglass epoxy resin to protect the outside, and you could build a lightweight but tough shell...instant garage...how much does that stuff cost, anyway? You're right, Archie, that stuff is way cool. And speaking of cool, I wish I'd had someone like you to be apprenticed to when I was the age of Rob and Kris. I think it's a great thing the way you've helped insure the next generation of car crafters, and maybe improved a couple of lives along the way.
------------------ 88 Formula, "Asphalt Aviator"
Celebrate Artesian New Year!!!
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06:04 PM
jstricker Member
Posts: 12956 From: Russell, KS USA Registered: Apr 2002
I get almost all of my fiberglass supplies from Wicks Aircraft supply. Their foam is Instafoam and is 2#/cu ft density. It expands about 30:1.
If you're filling in openings (door handles, etc.) be sure to drill a couple of good sized holes in the back and cover them with packing tape before you fill. When you're done, pull the tape off. The foam will outgas for quite some time even after it appears to be cured (several days or more) and if you glass over it without somewhere for the gas to go, it can cause delamination.
John Stricker
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Originally posted by HIOSILVER!:
I was going to use great stuff. But who makes that stuff? Looks like just the thing for my dash project. HIOSILVER
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06:28 PM
Archie Member
Posts: 9436 From: Las Vegas, NV Registered: Dec 1999
Earlier in the week we had done some planning on what we would be needing to do to the decklid area in regards to the headrests & the top of the decklid. If you compare these pics to the PS showing the decklid to the actual decklid, you'll see that the PS has the surface of the decklid lower than it is in the actual car.
The actual decklid is almost as high as the stock Fiero seats are & we'll have to lower the decklid as much as we can to get some definition in the headrest extensions.
I had an old Instrument panel surround from a dash I designed years ago & it had the outside shape I had in mind for the headrest extensions.
But I also wanted it to taper back into the decklid a lot farther than it does in this picture.
