Yesterday I dusted off the IMSA and went for a drive (the first in weeks). It was a blast and dissapointing all at the same time, as I realise that tis project has reached a point I always dread. that point is known as "finished", which I've mentioned before is generally equal to "for sale"
you'll be seeing this car in the mall before long. I'm thinking $18,000.oo as a fair price. I expect if I'd kept receipts they would total more than that in parts alone. I still have a few projects in mind for my SE350, but I may actually build something other than a Fiero (perrish the thought) one of these days also. I'm thinking of a gasser style car based on a Fiat Topolino. basicly a bucket T with a roof .
Regardless of where I go from here I will deffinetly stay in touch with the Fiero world. they really are a blast.
Cheers, Russ
[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 09-14-2006).]
It's going good Ted. I've begun gathering parts for my next project (the N* powered street rod) and have been enjoying married life as well as life in general. and I hope things are going well for you also. If I haven't mentioned it for a wile, I'd also like to say that it's guys like you that make guys like me enjoy this car hobbie so much. the awsome parts you make with those two hands make it a whole bunch more fun to do what I do with mine. Lots of interest, but my hands didn't get any greener from posting the car for sale, so I guess I'll keep it a bit longer, refine it a bit more, and keep raising the price until it sells
The SE350 goes in the garage next however, as I have a couple "refinements" left to do on it also LOL.
see you all around the next bend in the road,
Russ544
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07:35 PM
Oct 20th, 2006
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
I've had a couple of inquires lately about my use of the Holly Commander computer setup an the Northstar, so I thought it must be time to make a small update here on my opinion of the system. DON'T USE ONE!!. Although the Holly seems to have a vast amount of tunability and versitility, I've never been able to really make the thing control the motor to the degree that I feel it should. as a matter a fact I can't think of anyone who is using one who claims to have it running to their compleat satisfaction. the idle seems to be the constant battle for most people. at least it is with mine. under power the thing just flat hauls the mail, but at a stop sign it surges and blubbers all the time, and off idle, when pullijng away from a stop, it wants to buck sometimes. Maybe I'm just to critical, or too stupid to get it tuned "right", but if that's the case then I'm not alone in my shortcomings. I'm currently waiting for a tweeked GM unit from Ryan Hess, along with a pre-fab wire harness, so we'll see how that pans out. it sems to work very well for him, and he went through the same things I have on the Holly system initially, so....... I'll let ya'll know how it works out for me. If you do decide to go the Holly route, also be advised that a unit purchased off E-bay, and not set up by CHRF will NOT be able to opperate the Northstar correctly. CHRF has an exclusive on the Northstar setup in the Commander (it's more than just a software change), so you'll be sending it to them to be modified for the N* anyway. also they supply the correct wire harness with their units suitable for the N*, and without it you'll be pulling your hair out. bottom line is: if you want to go Holly, by all means get the correct setup from CHRF to begin with,....................... I did purchase from CHRF, but now that I've used one I sure don't recomend the unit myself.
Russ
[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-20-2006).]
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05:06 PM
Oct 22nd, 2006
Bill Strong Member
Posts: 106 From: Charlottesville, Virginia Registered: Jan 2004
The highest points in the system need to be bleed of any air pockets by attaching a line to them and routing it to the lower port on the neck of the surge tank where it can be purged into a low mounted coolant recovery tank via the upper port on the surge tank. Water is circulated through the surge tank at all times as it gets plumbed in line with the heater hose system. As I showed earlier, I enlarged the port near the radiator hose neck to accept a temp sender, thus eliminating the original purge port, so a new vent needed to be made in that area. One of the bolts that holds on the bracket on top of the neck is screwed into a blind hole, but by drilling it on through into the water passage below it and tapping the hole for 10MM threads (note shop vac to extract chips), the old vent fitting can now be installed here.
Purging the high point of the radiator itself will be experimental, as I plan to install a cap on the radiator and run a line from the overflow port all the way back to the surge tank purge line. the pressure cap will be on the surge tank itself and both the surge tank and overflow recovery tank will be located in the engine bay.
Russ,
Did this work out okay for you?
------------------ Bill Strong Racing Strong Motorsports
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09:25 AM
Zac88GT Member
Posts: 1024 From: Victoria BC Registered: Nov 2004
I tried using the same method and i thought that it worked, but when i went to replace the thermostat gasket after i filled the car with antifreeze all the aluminum chips came flying out the water pump inlet. My vacuum may not have been as strong as his shop vac but i would take extra precautions if using this method, flush the whole thing out before running the car.
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10:56 AM
PFF
System Bot
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
Yup. it sure did Bill. I'm actually using a stock (although brand new) Fiero radiator on this car, and have had zero heating/cooling system problems with it. I burped the system as normal before I first fired the car and haven't touched that system since. Do be sure to clean out the aluminum chips after you drill and tap the hole however.
Russ
PS: I just re-read my original post again, and I ended up NOT placing a return line from the old radiator overflow port back to the purge tank. I capped off the radiator and placed a valve on the old overflow port, just in case I need to vent out any trapped air, but I've never needed to use it.
[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 10-22-2006).]
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12:29 PM
Oct 23rd, 2006
Bill Strong Member
Posts: 106 From: Charlottesville, Virginia Registered: Jan 2004
cool. I am not using a water based coolant, and it wont be pressurized, so bleading should be easier. I am now using a GM aluminum radiator as the MR2 radiator is great for 1.6 liter engines, it slowed down the flow of the coolant pretty bad. My engine is apart, so I wond have to worry about aluminum
nice job by the way
------------------ Bill Strong Racing Strong Motorsports
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09:06 AM
Dec 24th, 2006
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
As I mentioned a wile back I really haven't been satisfied with the Holly computer system in this car, so I had Ryan Hess set up one of his GM units and a new harness for me a wile back. today I finally had some time to work on the car, and managed to get the old harness removed. boy howdy that was a job ! when I built this engine I made a lot of harness retainers to snug the loom up close to the motor and had run a number of wires under the intake manifold etc., in order to keep the engine compartment as uncluttered as possible.
A Northstar engine in a Fiero doesn't have a nickels worth of working room around the motor, so I have some skinned knuckles for my efforts, but the harness is out. in retrospect it would have been better, and perhaps easier, to just remove the engine to do this but it's too late now
in the next couple days I should have some time to get the new harness merged in with the old stuff. The wife and I are leaving for Arizona for two weeks, along about next Thursday, but it would be nice to have this back together by then. We'll see
Russ544
[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-27-2006).]
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08:25 PM
Dec 25th, 2006
cptsnoopy Member
Posts: 2585 From: phoenix, AZ, USA Registered: Jul 2003
I have been hoping that you would find some time and report how the new setup from Ryan was working. It is actually pretty chilly here in town right now but a lot better than the folks buried in snow.
edit: forgot to throw in a MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!
[This message has been edited by cptsnoopy (edited 12-25-2006).]
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12:41 AM
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
I have been hoping that you would find some time and report how the new setup from Ryan was working. It is actually pretty chilly here in town right now but a lot better than the folks buried in snow.
edit: forgot to throw in a MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!
high 50s is 20 degrees warmer than we are here now, but we have our request in, with the powers that be, to add at least 20 more degrees to the AZ weather for our arrival.
I do have high hopes for the setup from Ryan, but whatever the outcome I'll report it as factually as I can, as I'm sure there are several other very interested eyes out there who haven't spoken up yet. the fire is started in the wood stove in my shop, and I'll be out there soon.
and a HO HO HO back at cha
Russ
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11:32 AM
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
Have I mentioned that I REALLY hate wireing? I don't know what it is about all that spagetti, but for some reason my brain just locks up in it's presents. anyway..................... I laid out the old harness that I was using with the Holly (above) and compared it with the one that Ryan supplied. as I suspected, if I want the wires hidden again I'll have to pretty much start from scratch on assembling the new one, so I carefully separated the Fiero harness portion from the Holly portion. Although I didn't take a picture of it, I've also laid out Ryans harness on the motor and begun modifing and re-routing it to suit my needs. it's a slow and tedious process for my anti-wire brain, but seems to be going ok so far. the only major thing I haven't figured out yet is the O-2 sensor. his harness has three wires labled as 0-2, but I only see two on his schematic (I suspect the extra one may be for when a wideband O-2 is used) but my Caddy sensor has 4 wires........ the Holly 0-2 sensor had 3 wires.... huummm. details details details. maybe things will look better tomorrow, if I have enough eggnog tonight
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09:22 PM
Dec 26th, 2006
Will Member
Posts: 14250 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
The four wires to the Caddy sensor are heater power, heater ground, sensor signal and sensor ground. If Ryan's harness calls for only sensor signal and ground, then just run the heater wire from a hot-in-run power source. I pull mine from the Fan E fuse via C500-B1. Just ground the heater ground appropriately.
[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-26-2006).]
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12:00 PM
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
The four wires to the Caddy sensor are heater power, heater ground, sensor signal and sensor ground. If Ryan's harness calls for only sensor signal and ground, then just run the heater wire from a hot-in-run power source. I pull mine from the Fan E fuse via C500-B1. Just ground the heater ground appropriately.
That sounds logical to me. his schematic shows a provision at the ECM for a heated 0-2, and I can provide a ground for it easy enough. I PMed him to confirm, but I do believe that would work. thanks Will.
Russ544
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02:35 PM
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
OK.... Ryan confirmed the 4 wire 0-2 setup, so that problem appears solved, but another item that I thought was a non issue turned out to be a minor headache. The knock sensor needed for Ryans ECM is a 93-95 N* unit. that knock sensor mounts on the side of the block. unfortunatly the boss used for that is now serving duty as one of my rear motor mount supports. The 98 N* that I'm using had it's knock sensor in the valley under the intake manifold (the Holly Commander doesn't even use a knock sensor however so it was just along for the ride). the 98 unit has a different connector, and according to Ryan it isn't compatable with his ECM anyway. the logical solution for my situation was therefor to install the early sensor in the valley position, but the mounting hole is a different size. I have no clue what size that is, as it doesn't match anything I know about in metric or US, but a 1/4" pipe tap is pretty darn close and worked out just fine after first drilling out the hole to 7/16". With those issues apparantly resolved I went ahead and installed the Fiero portion of the wire harness.
as you can see I decided to set up the Fiero portion and the "Hess" portion as compleatly separate wire looms. I'll install my modified "Hess" portion tomorrow. if this ECM works out well I'll eventually be pulling the engine and cleaning up the routing of these harneses even more (yes I'm anal about those things). it's just darn near impossible to make a really clean installation with the engine in the car. the "Fiero portion" of the wireing consists mainly of the starter, alternator, oil presure and water temp guage senders, back up light switch and VSS. The C500 connector (above the right side wheelwell) and the firewall pass-through are also part of this harness.
I've got one more day to work on this project before Jennifer and I pack up and go on our honymoon, so I may or may not finish up the car before then. it actually doesn't look good at this point, but if not, we'll be back in two weeks.
Russ544
[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-27-2006).]
What does the N* use for idle control? I ask because you and ryan hess have both reported idle problems with the holley commander.
I'm sure Ryan or Will could explain the workings of the caddy idle air control (IAC) system much better than I, but from my limited knowledge it appears to be pretty much an industry standard design of regulating the amount of air that can bypass the throttle plates. I've never heard anything but speculation as to why the Holly has so much trouble controlling idle, but even Allan (CHRF) will admit to it's shortcomings in this area, for street driven applications. Just like everyone else, I've developed my own theory as to why the Holley won't hold a good idle, and mine is based mostly on second had information so it's speculation at best. I've heard that the Holly sends it's signal to the IAC and IGN in a somewhat analog fashion. in other words, if the base map at near idle speeds were something like 8 - 8 - 8 - 9 - 9 - 9 - 10 - 10 - 11 - 11 - 12 and it was idling in the 9 to 10 range, the holly might start attempting to compensate the IAC setting which increases the slight surge. which in turn may cause it to hit 11, which inceases the surge even more, etc, etc until the ecm sees the idle speed is out of spec and tries to make more drastic changes like timing and bigger IAC changes to compensate which just worsens the vicious cycle. The GM computer, on the other hand, uses a more sophisticated system of "averaging" between the points on the base map. in effect eliminating any "jump" between them, and thereby damping any potential for oscillation. like I said.... just my speculation.
sort of reminds me of an old MASH episode where Col Potter was asking Radar if he understood the stack of Army paperwork he was asking Potter to sign. the response was simply: "I try not to sir. it slows down the work".
back to work on the harness, Russ544
[This message has been edited by Russ544 (edited 12-27-2006).]
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02:20 PM
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
Topside everything is buttoned up again. a couple wires still need to be plugged in down below, but I'll jack it up and do that later. it didn't clutter things up too bad.
The ECM and some of it's wiring is installed now, but I still need to trace a few wires and hook them up. I cut an old C-203 connector (as used under the console).in half to use to connect unterminated wires on Ryans harness like tach, rad fan, speedo, fuel pump, ECM ground and B+ (I go directly to the battery with these), and switched power. Ryan sets up his harness with these wires arranged to hook up near the C-500, but I had previously hooked up those things under the consol with the Holly so that's the way I set up his harness also.
As to Ryans harness. having all new connectors and wiring provides a large degree of confidence in the system that you just don't get with hacked together used stuff. Looks like we'll have to wait a couple weeks to find out how well it runs however. unfortunately my time allocation to work on this has run out, and I'll soon be forced to lay in the Arizona sun for two weeks with a beautiful woman. oh the humanity
Russ
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08:27 PM
motoracer838 Member
Posts: 3751 From: Edgewater Co. USofA Registered: Jan 2006
I'll soon be forced to lay in the Arizona sun for two weeks with a beautiful woman. oh the humanity
Russ
Your'e making it real hard to feel sorry for ya' .
I'm looking forward to seeing How this works out for you.
Iv'e got my clutch and flywheel from CHRF, Chip and wiring info from Ryan, other parts from Purple Reign, Rodney Dickman and the Fiero Store. I'll be starting soon.
when things go wrong, don't follow them. Joe
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10:11 PM
Jan 18th, 2007
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
Your'e making it real hard to feel sorry for ya' .
I'm looking forward to seeing How this works out for you.
Well it worked out really well in Arizona Joe. thanks for asking. it was 70* most days, except up North where it was in the 50s. I'm not sure what happened however, as we've noticed a posie has been on our tail ever since we headed for home, and my boots smell like horse rocky..................... maybe we're just imagining those things?
Oh.... did you mean the car? I'll get back to that as soon as we warm up. it's FREEZING up here in Oregon now.
Russ544
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08:40 PM
Jan 20th, 2007
ZeroC Member
Posts: 1664 From: Chilliwack,BC,Canada Registered: Jan 2003
I Always Love Those Pics..Guy Gets The Gun And Girl Gets The Booze lol
Should Be The Other Way ...Girl Gets The Gun FOR The Boozer Guy lol
------------------ "This car is so good looking its almost indecent. - AutoWeek on the new 1986 GT" Chilliwack Fieros MSN Messanger tylercaddick@hotmail.com
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04:45 AM
cptsnoopy Member
Posts: 2585 From: phoenix, AZ, USA Registered: Jul 2003
I don't know exactly how it happened but my wife and I had a very similar picture taken in OR. I don't remember the name of the little town but it was on the south side of the Columbia river were it exits into the Pacific. I do remember that I was cold the last couple of weeks here, that Canada air must of made it down here just as your wagon train was pulling out.
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01:07 PM
Jan 21st, 2007
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
I don't know exactly how it happened but my wife and I had a very similar picture taken in OR. I don't remember the name of the little town but it was on the south side of the Columbia river were it exits into the Pacific. I do remember that I was cold the last couple of weeks here, that Canada air must of made it down here just as your wagon train was pulling out.
Ha ha. yup. from the looks of the weather shown on Barrett Jackson I'd say we made it out just in time. we spent our last day in Arizona at the Grand Canyon and they were saying they expected several inches of snow the day after we were leaving. we had a blast on our trip, but it's sure cold here now also. high 30s and low 40s for the high the past several days. I've tried to get the woodstove stoked enough to get my shop warm enough to work out there several times, but until today I made no progress on the car. today I did get the remaining unterminated wires all hooked up. unfortunatly I seem to have a short somewhere (blows the ECM fuse as soon as the key hits "on") and I didn't have time today (Sunday) to trace it out. perhaps next weekend will be warmer and I'll be more inspired to sort it out.
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11:00 PM
Feb 4th, 2007
motoracer838 Member
Posts: 3751 From: Edgewater Co. USofA Registered: Jan 2006
sorry guys. I just haven't had time to work on this for a wile now. We're building a new house and I never realised how much baby-sitting would be required of us. there's a constant stream of permits to obtain, inspections to deal with, and decisions to be made. then there's my work I've been feeling guilty about not having the car done for the "review" of Ryans setup, but I promise I'll get back to it as soon as I can.
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11:23 AM
motoracer838 Member
Posts: 3751 From: Edgewater Co. USofA Registered: Jan 2006
Russ, when you got your clucth from CHRF, did they send a throw out bearing or did you have to get one? the one they sent me is for a longitudinal setup and isn't even close to being the right one, they are trying to work with me on this, but insist that it's the same bearing that they have sent for all of thier Fiero/Northstar sets.
Edit; Another question for ya'. Did your flywheel look like this before you machined .200 of off the surface?
Joe
[This message has been edited by motoracer838 (edited 02-05-2007).]
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08:11 PM
PFF
System Bot
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
Russ, when you got your clucth from CHRF, did they send a throw out bearing or did you have to get one? the one they sent me is for a longitudinal setup and isn't even close to being the right one, they are trying to work with me on this, but insist that it's the same bearing that they have sent for all of thier Fiero/Northstar sets.
Edit; Another question for ya'. Did your flywheel look like this before you machined .200 of off the surface?
Joe
It's been a wile, but as I recall I did supply my own to bearing. and yes, I'm pretty sure your flywheel is like mine before I had it machined. I do recall that there was only a very small lip left above the ring gear after machining. FYI. the best (and cheepest) way to have the flywheel machined is to have them put it in a brake lathe for the first 90% of the cut, then have them use the flywheel resurfacer for the last pass to get things perfectly true and with the proper finish on the face.
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10:53 PM
Feb 6th, 2007
motoracer838 Member
Posts: 3751 From: Edgewater Co. USofA Registered: Jan 2006
I'm pretty sure your flywheel is like mine before I had it machined. I do recall that there was only a very small lip left above the ring gear after machining. .
I was afraid you were going to say that, Thanks. If youv'e see my thread Northstar autopsy you'll know that I'm not exactly having fun with this swap.
Joe
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06:15 PM
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
I was afraid you were going to say that, Thanks. If youv'e see my thread Northstar autopsy you'll know that I'm not exactly having fun with this swap.
Joe
Ya. I did see your thread. I've seen N* short blocks go for as little as a hundred bucks however, and a bare crank would be even less if that would get you going. As far as the flywheel is concerned, it's really no big deal to have the flywheel faced. just about any automotive maching shop can do it for very little $. I guess you just have to look at it as just another part of the adventure of hot rodding. when it's all together and running you'll look back and laugh at the little glitches in the buildup and realise how it was WAY worth it all.
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08:36 PM
motoracer838 Member
Posts: 3751 From: Edgewater Co. USofA Registered: Jan 2006
Yeah I know that there will be bumps along the way, I just get a little bent when I have to rework parts that are supposed to fit out of the box.
I need to gain at least .240 of an inch for the clucth to fit and even more to compensate for wear of the clucth, I'm thinking that an 1/8" plate between the engine and the trans would really help, I was already planing on cutting the stut tower. I'll never understand what GM was thinking when they offset the block the way that they did.
Joe
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11:53 PM
Feb 7th, 2007
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
Yeah I know that there will be bumps along the way, I just get a little bent when I have to rework parts that are supposed to fit out of the box.
I need to gain at least .240 of an inch for the clucth to fit and even more to compensate for wear of the clucth, I'm thinking that an 1/8" plate between the engine and the trans would really help, I was already planing on cutting the stut tower. I'll never understand what GM was thinking when they offset the block the way that they did.
Joe
whooo. I don't know why you'd need to cut .240 (even if you could). With the to bearing that's made to go with whatever trans you want to use, the flywheel should be the same thickness as mine. I removed .200 from mine. I could be wrong but...... measure twice - cut once .
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10:55 AM
Will Member
Posts: 14250 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Yeah I know that there will be bumps along the way, I just get a little bent when I have to rework parts that are supposed to fit out of the box.
I need to gain at least .240 of an inch for the clucth to fit and even more to compensate for wear of the clucth, I'm thinking that an 1/8" plate between the engine and the trans would really help, I was already planing on cutting the stut tower. I'll never understand what GM was thinking when they offset the block the way that they did.
Joe
That's a CHRF flywheel, right? It's made to fit LONGITUDINAL transmissions which have deeper bellhousings than transverse transmissions. That should require the same treatment as a 3800 flywheel does in order to be used with a 282. It is NOT supposed to fit a 282 out of the box.
You do NOT need 1/8" plate between the engine and trans. I would think that would be counterproductive, as it will decrease the amount of engagement that the alignment dowels have with the bellhousing.
What do you mean "When GM offset the block the way they did"?
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10:52 PM
Feb 8th, 2007
motoracer838 Member
Posts: 3751 From: Edgewater Co. USofA Registered: Jan 2006
That's a CHRF flywheel, right? It's made to fit LONGITUDINAL transmissions which have deeper bellhousings than transverse transmissions. That should require the same treatment as a 3800 flywheel does in order to be used with a 282. It is NOT supposed to fit a 282 out of the box.
You do NOT need 1/8" plate between the engine and trans. I would think that would be counterproductive, as it will decrease the amount of engagement that the alignment dowels have with the bellhousing.
What do you mean "When GM offset the block the way they did"?
I found the problem with my measurements, there was a problem with the throwout arm causing the throwout bearing to stand out in the bellhousing.
When I ordered the clucth and flywheel package from CHRF They were told that it was for an 87Fiero gt v6 5speed, they claim to have 6 sets out and don't seem to be aware of any problems, right! I don't like spending that much money on swap parts that don't fit and need more money/time spent to make it right.
As for what i meant about offset, I was talking about the orientation of the cylinders in the block with #1 being in the rear bank, taking up valuble space.
Joe
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12:31 AM
Feb 11th, 2007
pavo_roddy Member
Posts: 4351 From: State with a city named Gotham Registered: Apr 2004
Sorry pavo_roddy, I had meant to reply earlier but when we went to the new page I forgot.
As measured at the center of the wheel openings the front of the widebody is 2 1/2" wider (1 1/4" per side) and the rear is 4 1/2" wider (2 1/4" per side). The front of the wb facia is pretty close to stock width but quickly flares out to meet the wider fenders.
Russ
HI all
Russ, if you had the choice to go with a wider front track would you? Say an inch?
------------------ Me, I sell engines, the cars are for free, I need something to crate the engines in.... Enzo Ferrari....
Today they are called garage's, yesterday, they were stable's! Eric Jacobsen....
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10:26 PM
Russ544 Member
Posts: 2136 From: S.W. Oregon Registered: Jun 2003
Russ, if you had the choice to go with a wider front track would you? Say an inch?
front track as in tread width? or fender width? In eather case, no, I like it just fine the way it is now. the widebody kit may not sound like much of an increase, but it did change the look quite noticeably in front as well as rear.
