quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Assuming it flows in the same ballpark to what a dohc head can flow, 600 horsepower is not at all far off. The only problem i see is the fact you will need to run MORE than 30psi of boost. I think an hx40 or hx55 holset would do this for you. They live at 30psi, and can even go higher without to much efficiency loss.

Peak flow is almost 280CFM for my 2v head, not fantastic, but it's no slouch. I'm also not sure why you think I will need to run more than 30 psi. I already have a Garrett GT3776, 76mm compressor wheel, HX55 is slightly smaller at 72mm.

I almost forgot to add, also, that this is computed with 110 octane, and icewater in the IC. Obviously on pump gas it would be much less. I have no idea if I could hit 800HP, if I'm going to try I'm probably going to need another set of injectors. Historically this program has been very accurate...Only one way to find out
(I think the "one way to find out" is MORE MONEY)

the moltron #65's that you can get and still run high imped, will limit you to 400-500 horsepower anyway, just go all out and get the 1500CC injectors and call it a day. (about 150# injectors lol)

Im sorry I dont have anything productive to add to this thread. Other than I have been following it for awhile, and I think that this motor will be amazing.....But this 800HP stuff just reminded me. You're lucky that your thread didnt fall to these dogs....

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/086397.html

I was surfing the net in between classes and found this, thought it was pretty sweet.
http://www.hotrod.com/featu...cylinder_engine.html

1030hp/680lb-ft of torque on 20PSI. Yikes! The new-tech old-4cyl approach worked well for them...

Been getting bored again...Also following yet another lead on camshafts....

So I've been designing a new 4-bolt splayed cap (again). My cap girdle got me thinking about how thermal expansion affects cap and bearing deformation, and the results are pretty amazing. I've been testing various cap geometries to try to get the least deformation at the crank-cap interface. The standard cap geometry used by most vehicles does some interesting things when heated to 200*F. I don't have any pics of the test results yet, but here's one design I've gone through:




Nate

Catia?

As of today in what state is the motor in? Are you nearing completion? I have been following this thread forever!

quote Originally posted by Mr.PBody: As of today in what state is the motor in? Are you nearing completion? I have been following this thread forever!

I bet its farther from assembled than it was at this time last year

Heh, I think it actually might be LESS assembled than this time last year. At this point, all I need is some deciding factor to either use the Cossie stuff or the Pontiac stuff I already have. It seems like I've come 10 miles, and the long block is only about 1 inch away from being done (and done right too) if I use the Pontiac head. Lack of parts might end up nixing the Cosworth gear, but it's always been what I really wanted to try. The geometry of the Cossie head allows me to make optimizations with the intake and exhaust system that I wasn't able to do with the Pontiac head, and I think in a street environment the Cossie would probably be more reliable.

Anyway, the State of the Motor Address, by item (using Pontiac SD parts):
BLOCK - Needs to be plateau honed .002" and a couple oil holes on the deck plugged.
Crank/Rods/Pistons - Done
Head - Coated, P&P'd, Flowed, needs to be reassembled
Intake - Done
Oil Pan - Need one
Valve train - Need pushrods
Exhaust - Need to go through a few more header designs, it's a PITA
Clutch/Trans - Need to determine gear ratios => Trans => Trans spacer and spline for 3 disc 5.5" clutch
Engine management - Ehhhh......Haven't decided how done I am on this yet. (VEMS? MS-II? Big $tuff 3?)

This is your State of the Motor

So did you hear anything back from cosworth about your cam stuff?

*fap* *fap* *fap* as I go through this thread. . .

Hey Fast,

How much have you actually driven your Indy in the last 3 years?

quote Originally posted by FastIndyFiero: Heh, I think it actually might be LESS assembled than this time last year. At this point, all I need is some deciding factor to either use the Cossie stuff or the Pontiac stuff I already have. It seems like I've come 10 miles, and the long block is only about 1 inch away from being done (and done right too) if I use the Pontiac head. Lack of parts might end up nixing the Cosworth gear, but it's always been what I really wanted to try. The geometry of the Cossie head allows me to make optimizations with the intake and exhaust system that I wasn't able to do with the Pontiac head, and I think in a street environment the Cossie would probably be more reliable. Anyway, the State of the Motor Address, by item (using Pontiac SD parts): BLOCK - Needs to be plateau honed .002" and a couple oil holes on the deck plugged. Crank/Rods/Pistons - Done Head - Coated, P&P'd, Flowed, needs to be reassembled Intake - Done Oil Pan - Need one Valve train - Need pushrods Exhaust - Need to go through a few more header designs, it's a PITA Clutch/Trans - Need to determine gear ratios => Trans => Trans spacer and spline for 3 disc 5.5" clutch Engine management - Ehhhh......Haven't decided how done I am on this yet. (VEMS? MS-II? Big $tuff 3?) This is your State of the Motor

Ah!! you need an Oil pan. You should get one like this. I will need to have it modified to use the stock motor mount bracket but that shouldn't be hard. I wonder how many quarts it holds. I also have the one that came on my IMSA which looks like a stock oil pan with the sump modified and two tubes for the drain down from the intake. BTW I in no way paid anywhere near that $508 price tag you see on the pan.

Bored again.





Right now it's REALLY messy, and isn't the configuration I want, but it's buildable.

just some quick tips on your exhaust, route them into the collector in correspondence with the firing order. By this, I mean, have the first cylinder that fires, next to the 2nd. Have the 2nd next to the 3rd, the 3rd next to the 4th, and the 4th next to the first. With this, it keeps a velocity (less turbulence) in your exhaust, increasing the scavanger effect. May not seem like much, but i've seen 5hp gains in 105 hp 600cc engines by ONLY doing this.

My turbo uses a divided turbine housing, so cylinder pairs 1-4 and 2-3 will be seperated from each other. This also means that the turbo C/L will be running fore/aft, so I might need to "clearance" the front firewall a bit. Or I may still design one that puts the turbo C/L running transverse. Don't know yet. That involves physical mockup that I need to do...

Here's a very short video of my more refined exhaust model:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-EQsGb0q9k

any more updated?

I'm pretty sure it's done...Length from head flange to collector is 19". Each runner is composed of 4 seperate bends, 3 welds required for each, plus the transition from oval to round.

Why use 4 single flanges vs one large flange?

------------------
My sites
http://the-stickman.tripod.com

http://www.youtube.com/TheStickman

quote Originally posted by The_Stickman2: Why use 4 single flanges vs one large flange?

You say tomato I say tomato. . . Just a different way, four flanges will actually give you a little more adjustability and less weight Also, when you build off one flange, you might hit some tolerance stack.

Using individual flanges puts less stress on the head...Thermal strains at 1200* are pretty high in aluminum. When coupled to a thick steel plate (the exhaust flange) that doesn't expand as much, it puts alot of stress on fasteners and the head. By using 4 single flanges, the stress induced on a fastener is from a 2-3" length of steel expanding instead of 18" of steel expanding. Granted, the header tubes still have to flex pretty much the same distance, but there's not really any way to get around that. Also, it saves a little weight and looks cool.

I put in an email RFQ for 321 stainless flanges for the 16V today with SPD Exhaust. Looks like they do really good work, I think I probably don't want to know how much these flanges are going to be. I might have them make me a collector too, but it's too soon for that.

http://www.spdexhaust.com/HomeB.html

I found the guy who bought Toddster's DOHC head, that had cams with it. VERY cool guy, said he didn't have a problem with me using his cams to reproduce a set for myself. He also needs a front cover though, I was hoping that I can find one so I can get dim's to make one for myself. With any luck I could have a set of cams made. I think between the two of us we should be able to figure out solutions to our common problems. If nothing else, I've met another friend along way.

Also going to be ordering some mild steel tube sometime this week and start building a prototype header.

I have GOT to see this car when you get it done. You should park it behind velvet ropes and charge $50 a ride, you'll make back part of what you spent on that head!

Seriously though, you've got to let everyone on PFF know if you put it in a show, I'm not the only one who's dying to drool in your engine compartment.

quote Originally posted by cowan1984: I have GOT to see this car when you get it done. You should park it behind velvet ropes and charge $50 a ride, you'll make back part of what you spent on that head! Seriously though, you've got to let everyone on PFF know if you put it in a show, I'm not the only one who's dying to drool in your engine compartment.

Hehe, when I get done I'll be too old and senile to drive. I'll have to pay for someone to drive me around in it. Thanks for the compliment

Right now I'm undertaking a COMPLETE inventory of my DOHC equipment, every nut, bolt, and random part. I was also going to order steel for my proto exhaust but I've been having a hard time finding 1-7/8" diameter bends on a 4" CLR, where it exits the head. That may be something I need to change in the design.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 01-14-2008).]

I've been talking to a couple camshaft manufacturers that do one-off camshaft cutting/grinding. Keep in mind that no camshaft cores exist for this head, so the core has to be cut on a CNC lathe before it's ground. There are no cam grinding master plates either, which means that it also has to be CNC ground. When you factor in those requirements, prices go up and available sources go down to practically nothing. So far I've found 2 companies that can do this.

One is Integral Cams Inc. They do ground-up cam design. I would send them physically measured head flow numbers as well as complete valvetrain and intended engine specs, and a sample camshaft or a drawing. From there they would design intake and exhaust profiles and do a complete analysis on the entire cycle throught the RPM range...That's pretty cool.

BUT, I got quoted $2500 from the point where I send them sample cams to where I'm holding my own 2 heat-treated billet perfect camshafts.

The other place is Custom Camshaft Co. I have yet to get back with them on details, but it looks like they might be cheaper, though I'm not sure they have the same design capability.

Goodbye $$$$$.

EEK!!!! That's alot of cash just for cams. Is using that head worth the expense?

------------------
My sites
http://the-stickman.tripod.com

http://www.youtube.com/TheStickman

I think so, hes spent so much on the head itself and the head it so rare, may as well use it.

The original cams:



The passenger-side thrust/support bearing:









I don't have the bearing all the way in as it seems to be press fit, but you can see the idea.

I am getting all giddy, come on get those cams made!

. . . .
1 . 2 . 3 . 4 . 5 . 6 . 7 . 8 . 9 10 11

Somebody wake me when the engine fires up!

[This message has been edited by 30+mpg (edited 03-03-2008).]

Do you have those original cams in your possession?

If so, you could probably have them reground on essentially the same base circle a little bit MILDER and have something useful for a wild street turbo app.

Kurt

Here is a tool I've been making today for drilling the middle four cam bearing bosses. Apologies for the crappy cell pics.





Here's what it's supposed to look like when finished:



Looks more complicated than it actually is, I've only spent about 20 minutes on it so far. First I turned down some aluminum stock to camshaft size, put it on the mill and cut an orientation flat, then milled down another flat to the centerline. I then squared another little bit of scrap. Tomorrow, it's going to have an angled flat milled into it, and drilled for .25" cap screws to hold it to the cam bushing. Once the cam bushing is drilled and tapped, they will be assembled, and the nub for handling the cam bush will be cut off and the assembly milled flat on both sides. The assembly will go back into the mill, and the angled hole will be drilled in, then lined with a steel bushing. The whole unit will then simply bolt in place of the camshaft bearing cap.

Elapsed time...Hopefully not more than 1hr.

Why don't you just machine up your own motor your skills are intense man, nice work,

Started on header design number.......whatever

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 02-14-2008).]

Ummm.......I think this project is starting to get to you Nate. That cluster**** you got there is gonna be a ***** to build, and I'd love to know where some of those pipes are going.

Tube 1:

And from the jumbled mess...

LOL...Scott, you were pretty much right. I would show you guys the rest of the "trimmed" header if it didn't look like crap, and if it wasn't wrong.

So here's something positive:


Almost done. Hopefully I'll be bored at work again tomorrow.

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 02-18-2008).]

I want your job. My work doesn't have toys nearly that cool.

quote Originally posted by FastIndyFiero: I found the guy who bought Toddster's DOHC head, that had cams with it. VERY cool guy, said he didn't have a problem with me using his cams to reproduce a set for myself. He also needs a front cover though, I was hoping that I can find one so I can get dim's to make one for myself. With any luck I could have a set of cams made. I think between the two of us we should be able to figure out solutions to our common problems. If nothing else, I've met another friend along way. Also going to be ordering some mild steel tube sometime this week and start building a prototype header.

The guy I bought the head from might have a custom made timing cover still. If not, I know he sold several other DOHC items to some racers in Puerto Rico. I'll try to get the contact info.