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New ECM option for Northstar swappers by ryan.hess
Started on: 02-08-2006 11:02 PM
Replies: 229
Last post by: Will on 12-19-2008 03:46 PM
fieroparts.com
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Report this Post10-09-2006 05:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fieroparts.comClick Here to visit fieroparts.com's HomePageSend a Private Message to fieroparts.comDirect Link to This Post
bump
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motoracer838
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Report this Post10-16-2006 06:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for motoracer838Send a Private Message to motoracer838Direct Link to This Post
Got my package today, everything looks good. now I need to get started on my swap. Cheers Beers n Gearz. Joe
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Report this Post10-16-2006 07:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ragerc92Send a Private Message to ragerc92Direct Link to This Post
Ryan, if your still in need of some 2000 service manuals i can hook you up.
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ryan.hess
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Report this Post10-16-2006 08:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post
Just scans of the page(s) with crank sensor information is really all I need...
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86GT3.4DOHC
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Report this Post10-28-2006 12:58 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 86GT3.4DOHCSend a Private Message to 86GT3.4DOHCDirect Link to This Post
So how much would you want for the chip?

If I go the route im planning, I will have a complete N* drop out drive train(I believe its from a 94), so I'll have the wiring and ECM and I have a couple of the 7730 ECMs laying around

Im planning on bolting it to a Getrag, but I think you already said above it was for a standard tranny right?

Other than ECM all I really need is the flywheel and a good bit of metal fab work right? Ive done 3.4DOHC turbo's and 3.8SC's as well as half a dozen 2.8's so the fab work is not a big deal.

Im not sure yet, as of right now Im trying to decide whether I should rebuild the turbo 3.4DOHC in it, or go N* or 3.8SC. I can get the dropout N* for $400 so thats a big selling point....

Hey, how compatable would your program be with a turbo? which year N*'s are MAF? All?
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ryan.hess
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Report this Post10-28-2006 02:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC:

So how much would you want for the chip?

If I go the route im planning, I will have a complete N* drop out drive train(I believe its from a 94), so I'll have the wiring and ECM and I have a couple of the 7730 ECMs laying around

Im planning on bolting it to a Getrag, but I think you already said above it was for a standard tranny right?

Other than ECM all I really need is the flywheel and a good bit of metal fab work right? Ive done 3.4DOHC turbo's and 3.8SC's as well as half a dozen 2.8's so the fab work is not a big deal.

Im not sure yet, as of right now Im trying to decide whether I should rebuild the turbo 3.4DOHC in it, or go N* or 3.8SC. I can get the dropout N* for $400 so thats a big selling point....

Hey, how compatable would your program be with a turbo? which year N*'s are MAF? All?


The chip is $50. It will work with a getrag. The computer will not work with a 94 northstar. You need the 96+ intake(or TB) for it to work, which is a PITA to install on a 94. I went through the steps in another northstar thread. Basically it involves drilling and tapping the heads. Not for the faint of heart.

Turbo is not a problem, but it hasn't been done before, so expect speed bumps.

96-99 are MAF and are plug and play with this computer and harness.

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Reise
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Report this Post10-28-2006 06:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ReiseSend a Private Message to ReiseDirect Link to This Post
still nothing for auto swappers?
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ryan.hess
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Report this Post10-28-2006 08:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post
Auto swappers still have the hacked northstar computer they can use, but it means it's untunable...

Or you can buy a transmission controller from PCS, or this other company that makes them for about $600...
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Reise
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Report this Post10-28-2006 10:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ReiseSend a Private Message to ReiseDirect Link to This Post
what ever happened to the paddle shifting for the northstar 4t80E who would I look into gettting that thing from? I will probably use the comp to deal with the shifting till I can get the paddle shifter. any info on that?


Brian
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Report this Post10-28-2006 10:46 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post
The computer can't control an electronic transmission at the moment.

I don't build the paddle shifter's anymore, I ran out of parts... I might have something similar to the PCS system coming out soon though...
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Reise
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Report this Post10-29-2006 12:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ReiseSend a Private Message to ReiseDirect Link to This Post
well what are you doing messing around on here?? j/k Git R Dunn man... I was talking about the company that made them... I saw a post that had them on it and was kinda intrigued on how it all went together. do you know the post I am talking about... if you could make up something for the 4T80E then I would GLADLY give you the business...


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Report this Post10-29-2006 07:01 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RCRSend a Private Message to RCRDirect Link to This Post
Hey Ryan, love your projects...

It looks like it's almost a done deal in that I will be swapping my 3800SC for a 97 Aurora 4.0. In the distant future, it will get a small turbo. My biggest question is what option do I have for the trans control? For the time being, I'll be using the 4T80. Will this ECM control the trans? You were working on a trans controller. Did you finish it? Will it work on the 4T80? Or am I going to have to use the stock ECM?

Bob

[This message has been edited by RCR (edited 10-29-2006).]

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ryan.hess
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Report this Post10-29-2006 09:40 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by RCR:
Hey Ryan, love your projects...

It looks like it's almost a done deal in that I will be swapping my 3800SC for a 97 Aurora 4.0. In the distant future, it will get a small turbo. My biggest question is what option do I have for the trans control? For the time being, I'll be using the 4T80. Will this ECM control the trans? You were working on a trans controller. Did you finish it? Will it work on the 4T80? Or am I going to have to use the stock ECM?

Bob


http://www.globalintersection.com/auto-parts/store/ShowProd.asp?idProduct=128712&idRef=Froogle

$658

The ECM won't control a transmission. The transmission controller I built is finished, but I sold all the ones I had.... don't have parts to build any more, it would cost too much to have more boards made. If you were really interested... and willing to pay a premium to help offset the board costs, I could probably be convinced to put together another small run....
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ryan.hess
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Report this Post11-02-2006 04:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post
Harness with new wiring with new delphi connectors (no old stuff spliced together), ready to be combined with a fiero electrical system:



Set up for 2 heated o2 sensors (only one active at a time though). 98% plug and play... just wire power, ground, fan, tach, speedo, etc...

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HitesFiero
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Report this Post11-02-2006 06:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for HitesFieroSend a Private Message to HitesFieroDirect Link to This Post
$$$ ???
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Russ544
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Report this Post11-02-2006 06:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Russ544Send a Private Message to Russ544Direct Link to This Post
Wow. that looks great Ryan. can I have it?

I noticed you have an ALDL plug wired in there also, but what codes would be left to check for, once the egr and all that "extra" stuf has hit the dumpster? Also, if I hooked up my Auto-X-Ray to it, what car would I tell it that it was looking at?

Russ
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ryan.hess
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Report this Post11-02-2006 06:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Russ544:
Wow. that looks great Ryan. can I have it?

I noticed you have an ALDL plug wired in there also, but what codes would be left to check for, once the egr and all that "extra" stuf has hit the dumpster? Also, if I hooked up my Auto-X-Ray to it, what car would I tell it that it was looking at?

Russ


Why yes, yes you may. (Actually I'm surprised you don't have it already! Maybe tomorrow...)

Correct on the ALDL plug... It works like any other GM computer, it'll let you know if your MAP or TPS readings are off the charts... Coolant temp... etc. You can use the ol' paperclip trick to pull codes.

 
quote
Originally posted by HitesFiero:
$$$ ???


$500 for all of it... computer, harness, tuning files on CD, wiring diagrams...
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PM sent
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Report this Post11-03-2006 11:39 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HitesFieroSend a Private Message to HitesFieroDirect Link to This Post
WOW! $500 for a system using factory components that is 98% plug and play! That is truly a steal! Kudos to you Ryan, we may have to talk in the near future.
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Report this Post11-03-2006 05:51 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wpg-topsecretSend a Private Message to wpg-topsecretDirect Link to This Post
Ryan, how does your ECM setup take to aftermarket cams and/or ported/polished heads and valve jobs? Would it need to be re-tuned, or would it figgure itself out?

If it would need to be re-tuned, what software/tools would I need to do it myself?

Also, I've got the N* harness. Would you supply whatever other connectors I need, the programmed ECM and schematics and basic instructions so I could do the wiring myself? (I'm rather wiring savy, but just lazy )

[This message has been edited by wpg-topsecret (edited 11-03-2006).]

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ryan.hess
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Report this Post11-03-2006 06:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post
It would need to be retuned.

It can adjust for minor differences between engines, but not cam swaps or anything major like that.

I include a freeware copy of tunerpro with the definition file. To tune the computer, you will need an ALDL interface, and an EPROM burner. The burner is about $30 on ebay, the interface is about $40 ready-made... you can also build one yourself for about $20 if you're savy.

I can supply whatever parts you need.

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 11-03-2006).]

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Report this Post11-03-2006 06:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for carolinajoeClick Here to visit carolinajoe's HomePageSend a Private Message to carolinajoeDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Reise:

what ever happened to the paddle shifting for the northstar 4t80E who would I look into gettting that thing from? I will probably use the comp to deal with the shifting till I can get the paddle shifter. any info on that?


Brian


Brian,

Here is a link to paddle shifters
http://www.twistmachine.com/

And one to the Trans controller
http://www.powertraincontrolsolutions.com/

Ryan
I am just waiting to get my Holley back and then it will go up on
Ebay and will send you the money for your setup.

How much would it cost to get some boards made up and how many do you have
to get made at a time??
I mean crap TCI wants $658 and PCS wants $700 then $150 for the harness.

------------------
"If you want your car to be cheap and fast it won't be reliable...
If you want your car to be reliable and cheap it won't be fast...
If you want your car to be fast and reliable it won't be cheap...

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Report this Post11-03-2006 06:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for fiero_silvaSend a Private Message to fiero_silvaDirect Link to This Post
Cool... I should get a N*

[This message has been edited by fiero_silva (edited 11-03-2006).]

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ryan.hess
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Report this Post11-03-2006 06:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by carolinajoe:
How much would it cost to get some boards made up and how many do you have
to get made at a time??
I mean crap TCI wants $658 and PCS wants $700 then $150 for the harness.


I don't know..... I have 2 prototype boards for my "next generation" TCM that could be reprogrammed with the old code... I could assemble and sell you one, I'd have to get back to you on a cost. Unfortunately it means the old install instructions won't match, so I'd have to redo those as well...

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Report this Post11-26-2006 09:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for XzotikGTClick Here to visit XzotikGT's HomePageSend a Private Message to XzotikGTDirect Link to This Post
any news on the 2000 setup?

------------------
1987 GT 3.4 DOHC turboed
Updated page 11/3/06
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/167457/1

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Report this Post11-26-2006 10:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post
Another question...
Will the 7730 run enough of the emissions equipment to allow it to pass a sniffer test?
Although Georgia doesn't do a visual inspection, other than looking for a cat, it does test for NOx. Without a working EGR system of some sort, it's not likely it will pass. I'm pretty sure the same situation will hold true in other places.

I'm not planning on doing another swap anytime soon, but this will no doubt add another option.
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ryan.hess
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Report this Post11-27-2006 10:45 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post
No news on the 2000 setup. Nobody has given me the info I need from a service manual.

Emissions are "disabled". However, if one were inclined, you could install an EGR from an early 90's w-body (which may or may not need an adapter plate). However, I have not tuned any engines with an EGR before, so I'm not sure how difficult a task it would be once you installed one. In short - you can do it, but it might take a while to "get right".
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Report this Post11-27-2006 04:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for XzotikGTClick Here to visit XzotikGT's HomePageSend a Private Message to XzotikGTDirect Link to This Post
what info do you need?
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ryan.hess
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Report this Post11-27-2006 04:30 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post
crank sensor signal information
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XzotikGT
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Report this Post11-27-2006 04:32 PM Click Here to See the Profile for XzotikGTClick Here to visit XzotikGT's HomePageSend a Private Message to XzotikGTDirect Link to This Post
is that the only hold up?
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ryan.hess
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Report this Post11-27-2006 04:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post
I guess?

Won't know if it will work or not without that information..
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Report this Post11-27-2006 04:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for XzotikGTClick Here to visit XzotikGT's HomePageSend a Private Message to XzotikGTDirect Link to This Post
no problem with the coil on plug setup?

------------------
1987 GT 3.4 DOHC turboed
Updated page 11/3/06
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/167457/1

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Report this Post11-27-2006 05:03 PM Click Here to See the Profile for jstrickerSend a Private Message to jstrickerDirect Link to This Post
Ryan,

I have a stand alone GM Transmission controller out of a diesel pickup for the 4L80E. I don't know if you know anything about them but seeing as how you did the work on the GM Computer to make it work on the Northstar, maybe this would be an option for you to use instead of starting from scratch with a whole new TCM everytime?

John Stricker
 
quote
Originally posted by ryan.hess:


I don't know..... I have 2 prototype boards for my "next generation" TCM that could be reprogrammed with the old code... I could assemble and sell you one, I'd have to get back to you on a cost. Unfortunately it means the old install instructions won't match, so I'd have to redo those as well...


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Report this Post11-27-2006 05:44 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by XzotikGT:
no problem with the coil on plug setup?


The coil on plug setup IS the problem. The 2000 ECM controls the ignition directly - there is no ignition module to interpret the crank sensors, and fire the coils.

Or are you asking if those engines were COP? If so- yes.

 
quote
Originally posted by jstricker:
Ryan,

I have a stand alone GM Transmission controller out of a diesel pickup for the 4L80E. I don't know if you know anything about them but seeing as how you did the work on the GM Computer to make it work on the Northstar, maybe this would be an option for you to use instead of starting from scratch with a whole new TCM everytime?

John Stricker


Interesting thought, but it's a PITA to reverse engineer something. The next gen TCM will be the "end all" of TCM's. It will be programmable, and offer automatic shifting. So in that respect, it will be the "last".
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XzotikGT
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Report this Post11-27-2006 06:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for XzotikGTClick Here to visit XzotikGT's HomePageSend a Private Message to XzotikGTDirect Link to This Post
what if you added a wheel to the end of the crank, and a trigger. Could you then use one pf the ecm setups if I were to ditch the coil on plug setup, and use the reguar DIS on the older motor?

------------------
1987 GT 3.4 DOHC turboed
Updated page 11/3/06
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/167457/1

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Report this Post11-27-2006 06:50 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post
Sure, you could do that today. What I'd like to research is whether you can use the stock trigger system. External crank triggers aren't all that elegant of a solution. Plus you have the problem of them getting damaged or muddy or whatever...

[This message has been edited by ryan.hess (edited 11-27-2006).]

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Report this Post11-27-2006 07:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for XzotikGTClick Here to visit XzotikGT's HomePageSend a Private Message to XzotikGTDirect Link to This Post
The guy i am working with already has a wheel. If you had the specs on it, would you be able to program to match?

He also said that he thinks there are 2 control modules. One for each bank.

------------------
1987 GT 3.4 DOHC turboed
Updated page 11/3/06
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/167457/1

[This message has been edited by XzotikGT (edited 11-27-2006).]

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Will
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Report this Post11-27-2006 09:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
The immediate way to work a Y2K engine is with an external crank trigger, FAST eDist and 7730.

Will shortly send PM on RFT.
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Report this Post11-27-2006 10:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for XzotikGTClick Here to visit XzotikGT's HomePageSend a Private Message to XzotikGTDirect Link to This Post
to me?

------------------
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Updated page 11/3/06
http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/167457/1

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Report this Post11-27-2006 10:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ryan.hessSend a Private Message to ryan.hessDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by XzotikGT:
The guy i am working with already has a wheel. If you had the specs on it, would you be able to program to match?

He also said that he thinks there are 2 control modules. One for each bank.


A wheel, or a northstar wheel? You need a northstar wheel. Anything else won't work.

I don't know what we're talking about anymore, but no northstar has 2 control modules. The <99 uses one ignition module that interprets the crank signals and fires the 4 coil packs. The 2000+ has NO ignition module. It has 4 coils on each bank. They are directly controlled by the ECM like an LS1.
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