Well, I just ruined my weekend. I started her up to let her warm up and go check the engine compartment to make sure all was well before going for a quick spin and I forgot that I left it in 1st gear last night. I let go of the clutch so I could get out and she lurched forward about 2 feet. The only problem is that it was only 1 foot away from my tall jack stands that were leaning up against a cabinet - resulting in this:



I guess it's time to learn some painting skills.

Besides all that fun, I went for the quick spin and found a few other things:
1 - The oil leak at the intake manifold gets worst as the engine warms up (splattering everything around it)
2- The radiator cap was not installed completely and I never checked it after buying the car (splattering EVERYTHING around it)
3- The A-pillar-mounted temp guage is not working
4- The stock oil guage is not working
5- The door-open warning and the brake warning lights stay on
6- I could only rev the engine gradually. Pushing the gas hard at all only results in the engine starving for a second - then finally revving. I need to learn about carburated engines, that's for sure!
7- I also learned how many names I can call myself for ruining the paint on the front end. How stupid! The feeling - you ask? It's a mixture of and .

Did you take the bulbs out of your other car and try them? Sounds like you have the wrong bulbs.
The slide cylinders on your calibers are probably froze up. The caliber should slide in and out with the brake rotor. Take the caliber off and see if you can push the cylinders in and out. If they are froze, the piston may not be able to come out all the way to properly squeeze the pads around the rotor.
Sux about the front cover. I've done similar things myself. Like once I ran over a cinder block!

quote Originally posted by SOULCRUSHER:Did you take the bulbs out of your other car and try them? Sounds like you have the wrong bulbs. The slide cylinders on your calibers are probably froze up. The caliber should slide in and out with the brake rotor. Take the caliber off and see if you can push the cylinders in and out. If they are froze, the piston may not be able to come out all the way to properly squeeze the pads around the rotor. Sux about the front cover. I've done similar things myself. Like once I ran over a cinder block!

I haven't had a chance to today. It was time to clean and close the pool, paint two of our bathrooms - and a hot date with the wife tonight. I will get to the bulbs tomorrow or Tuesday.

I'll check the calipers some time this week, too. I'm not too sad about not spending time with the car after what I did to her today. Now that you mention the piston, it did feel like I only had the rear brakes working - so maybe the front ones are locked...

Thanks!

I have done the same thing just didnt hit anything. You will get use to checking it if you drive if often enough.

Just paint the nose black

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: I have done the same thing just didnt hit anything. You will get use to checking it if you drive if often enough. Just paint the nose black

If the e-brake was hooked up, it would have never happened.

How about one thick black stripe all the way - front to back? (not...)

It gives me a good excuse to get a paint gun and start playing. I'm still pi$$ed, though. Damn!

How's the weather in my old home town?

quote Originally posted by Saxman: Oh - by the way, the brakes do not work properly. I had plenty of pressure at the pedal, but it would not stop the car very quickly if I needed to. Just a slow, gradual stop. I could never skid to a stop no matter how hard I press the pedal. Also, there seems to be a lot of pressure at the top of the range of motion of the pedal. Usually, the pedal will go down a bit before there is much pressure. Any idea? Should I be able to shake the rear brake calipers when the wheels are off? They both jiggle pretty good. I don't remember them moving that much on other cars. I don't think this car wants to go out on the road!

The first thing i would check is to see if the vacume (sp) line for the power brake booster is hooked to the intake manifold....
You will find this line next to the shifter cables at the firewall...
an easy check is to pull the rubber line off the brake booster when the engine is running... you should have strong vacume at this line...
Chuck

Its hot, almost too hot to work out side. When you come back make sure you get a house with at least enough space for 4 cars

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:Its hot, almost too hot to work out side. When you come back make sure you get a house with at least enough space for 4 cars

I'll be down to just two Fieros by the time I get back down there (or at least that's what I tell the wife...)

quote Originally posted by Saxman: That's what I figure - and what Yons said. I guess the hazard of leaving it on by accident is worth the safety of preventing theft. (Except that now everyone knows I have it!)

just add a small relay (i have some spares) that it wired to the key-on power wire.. so that way you can have a hidden switch yet if the key is off then it will automaticly turn off. would only take a few minutes to hook up

Bummer on the front facia--did you get the paint code from PO ? You should be able to get by with just shooting it. They come off pretty easy... The high pedal does sound like something is sticking, I had front calipers do that to me several times ---(car sat to much) your caliper mounting bolts should torque out at 74....

quote Originally posted by Saxman: I'll be down to just two Fieros by the time I get back down there (or at least that's what I tell the wife...)

You have to make room for parts cars and a place to work on my car

quote Originally posted by Kohburn:just add a small relay (i have some spares) that it wired to the key-on power wire.. so that way you can have a hidden switch yet if the key is off then it will automaticly turn off. would only take a few minutes to hook up

Thanks, Kohburn. I will look into a relay. So, I guess I just can't hook it up directly to a key-on wire?

quote Originally posted by Kohburn:left rear then right rear.. the left rear is the farthest (through the brake lines) from the master. I believe its a misprint in the haynes manual.

I did it that way you last week. No air in there for now. Do you know if the brake line and the bleeder valve are normally the same size? Some other members here didn't think so. The stock bleeder valve fit into both holes.

quote Originally posted by Kohburn:that a definate possibility. After that i'd be checking stuck sliders on the calipers, and old rubber brake hoses that have delaminated internally and formed one way check valves (i've had it happen a few times, once keeping pressure out of the caliper and once not letting it out resulting in a flaming wheel)

I'll pull the front end off the ground and check for brake pad pressure to see if all calipers are moving (per a previous suggestion - and a good one). The car has sat for a while, so stuck calipers could be the culprit.

Thanks for the replies, Kohburn! I owe you a few beers - along with quite a few others here on the forum.

(edited because I hate seeing my own spelling errors - and I keep forgetting to add the V-book feature)

[This message has been edited by Saxman (edited 09-19-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Saxman: I'll pull the front end off the ground and check for brake pad pressure to see if all calipers are moving (per a previous suggestion - and a good one). The car has sat for a while, so stuck calipers could be the culprit. Thanks for the replies, Kohburn! I owe you a few beers - along with quite a few others here on the forum. (edited because I hate seeing my own spelling errors - and I keep forgetting to add the V-book feature)

if the stock fuel pump relay in the engine bay top left of firewall is still what is powering the fuel pump then yes you can just run a key-on wire to the relay to activate it. no need for a second relay.

threads sould be different sizes i think - would have to look at em - may be time for an 11.25" brake upgrade?

i'll take that beer this weekend?

quote Originally posted by Saxman: Hey, Jake (The V8 guy) - any idea why the car would hesitate (big time - like it is starved for gas) each time I punch the gas, but when I hit it gradually, it revs just fine? Should the fuel pressure be higher than 6lbs?

Well it was very close, but now it wont idle and surges when I’m just cruising. So I have to figure that out.
You should be running 4.5 psi and no more to that carb. It looks like an older Holley, you may want to look at the squirters. Take off the filter and with the car off move the accelerator all the way open. You should get a squirt of fuel as soon as the throttle starts to open. If not then it has to wait for the vacuum to start feeding the fuel.
I swapped out my Holley because it was running so rich and I just couldn’t get it to stop leaking, but now the one I have wont idle.

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon:Well it was very close, but now it wont idle and surges when I’m just cruising. So I have to figure that out. You should be running 4.5 psi and no more to that carb. It looks like an older Holley, you may want to look at the squirters. Take off the filter and with the car off move the accelerator all the way open. You should get a squirt of fuel as soon as the throttle starts to open. If not then it has to wait for the vacuum to start feeding the fuel. I swapped out my Holley because it was running so rich and I just couldn’t get it to stop leaking, but now the one I have wont idle.

Yes, there is no squirt of fuel that I could see, but that was back when I hadn't turned on the fuel pump. I'll check it again. Do you think I can fix the manifold leak (oil coming from the manifold below the distributor) by tightening the bolts while it is warm or should I just go ahead and replace the gasket and sealant?

The front and rear seals are hard to seal because of the big gap, if its leaking then tightening the bolts probably wont help. Are you sure its not from the distributer? Thats one of the places that mine is leaking now.
You should still get a squirt as long as there is fuel in the bowl even if the fuel pump is turned off.

Yeah - I can see the oil spray out under load. I guess I'll pull the intake some time soon. This will never end!

Well the intake isnt that hard to do, I have to do mine again too.
I have always heard to toss out the front and rear seals and just use gasket sealer instead. I dont know why they would include the gaskets if they dont work but every car I have ever worked on just had RTF sealing the front and rear.
Do not use any sealer on the heads as it may slide around when you put the bolts in.
Good luck
Jake

quote Originally posted by Saxman: I figured I would document the fixer-upper I just bought last weekend. The guy gave me a hell of a deal, so no complaints here... Yes, she doesn't look to bad. The good: Only 5 miles on the new 330hp/385tq crate engine - a nice clean install V8 Archie Kit 4-core Radiator (from a Nova, I believe) 4-speed Manual (corrected - it's not a 5-speed ) New poly on suspension and cradle (rubber on trans mounts ) Lambo doors Nice rims Powder coated/Por-15 underneath - almost everywhere (edited to add Cliff's Vbook feature and correct the trans)

I'm keeping an eye on this post to see if this is edited again - seems like alot of issues for a new, clean install, but working the bugs out is part of the journey

------------------

1986 Fiero2m8 (LT1 NX / 4T60 Roadster Build)
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/071642.html

quote Originally posted by Fiero2m8:I'm keeping an eye on this post to see if this is edited again - seems like alot of issues for a new, clean install, but working the bugs out is part of the journey

Yes - it is MUCH more than I was expecting.

The brake problem is a strange one because P.O. said he actually drove it for a little while, but I don't see how with no brakes (brake line and bleeder valve switched). As it is, the passenger front rotor is clean, so the pads are hitting there enough to take off all the rust, but all the other rotors only have a little rust rubbed off the outer edge - and not all the way through the rust. The car didn't pull to the right, so I don't think the one corner that connects had too much pressure, either. Once I get someone over here to help, I'll lift the wheels off the ground and try them out that way to see if the caliper is moving at all.

I would like to take it out Saturday to meet with a few of the Fiero guys from around here, but I don't think that is gonna happen. Maybe I can get the LED tail lights on the Fino and drive that car out for the meet...

Good news! Steve (at Yons Racing in WV) finally answered the phone today! He said he would call me back in 20 minutes to answer my long list of questions. (that was over 3 hours ago...)

OK - the brake problem seems to be solved thanks to phone calls to "Fino" and a few suggestions from others about the master cylinder vacuum line. It turns out that it was disconnected at the firewall and all now seems well. Plenty of grip in my driveway, but the road test will have to wait until the coolant problem is fixed - and the REAL road test will have to wait until the manifold gasket leak is repaired.

Hey! "Yons" lug-nut removal tool arrived today, but no phone call to answer my questions. I guess I'll just have to dig around to see what kind of work was done since I can't find out from him. I went ahead and ordered some of the missing parts since he hasn't sent the extra parts he promised.

Yes - the coolant is an issue now. Prev. owner put a coolant overflow under the rear radiator cap, so I had to add a reservoir to catch the coolant as is comes out. When I let the engine warm up today, the reservoir filled up to the top and was boiling - so I cut off the engine before it overflowed. I can't believe it was boiling! I checked the temp guage and it was normal even though I did not have the fan running. Perhaps the stock guage is wrong. The other temp guage on the A-pillar is not working, so I need to look into that.

Anyway, what can I do about the coolant overflow tube? "Kohburn" was over today and suggested capping it with a rubber cap, but that doesn't seem like it could take the pressure. I am probably wrong, but I just wanted another opinion. Maybe by capping the overflow in the rear and running the cooling fan, all will be well. I'll have to try it tomorrow.

"Kohburn" also helped with the tail lights. Since I have only worked on the Fino, I did not know which bulbs were supposed to be backup, signal and brake, so I must have been trying the wrong bulbs in the wrong sockets. He got one in the backup socket and it worked - and same for the signal lights, so I'm off to buy more bulbs tonight.

So, coolant issues and the intake manifold leak are all that's keeping me off the road. - Oh - and the registration from Illinois DMV that is taking a while.

It was good to hang with "Lildevil", Soulcrusher (and their girls), "Jus" and "Kohburn" today. Those cars sure look good, Devil and Soul. Here is a shot of them following me today to come see the new V8 and give me some advice. Soulcrusher is out in front of Jus' dark Fiero with Devil bringing up the rear (with the white front end).


Cheers!

for your overheat issue, have you burped the system? if it still uses the drop in t stat, pull it. I saw somewhere the front radiator cap was loose, you may have alot of air trapped. I think you know the burp drill.

For you driveability issue. 6.5 psi isa tad high, but managable.
Remove the air cleaner. run the fuel pump. the accelerator pump will be a piston with the shaft sticking out the top connecting to a cam lever. that lever is mechanically connected to your linkage and as you open the throttle, will compress the pump and give you the squirt of gas. if you open the throttle quickly with engine off, you should see the squirt, if not there are 2 possible causes. the cup on the pump is worn and not sealing, or the check valve in the bottom of the pump cylinder has dirt in it and is leaking the fuel out quickly. both parts usually come in a rebuild kit, and are relatively easy to replace. it is a common issue, usually on older setups, or if it sat for a long time.

quote Originally posted by tjm4fun:for your overheat issue, have you burped the system? if it still uses the drop in t stat, pull it. I saw somewhere the front radiator cap was loose, you may have alot of air trapped. I think you know the burp drill. For you driveability issue. 6.5 psi isa tad high, but managable. Remove the air cleaner. run the fuel pump. the accelerator pump will be a piston with the shaft sticking out the top connecting to a cam lever. that lever is mechanically connected to your linkage and as you open the throttle, will compress the pump and give you the squirt of gas. if you open the throttle quickly with engine off, you should see the squirt, if not there are 2 possible causes. the cup on the pump is worn and not sealing, or the check valve in the bottom of the pump cylinder has dirt in it and is leaking the fuel out quickly. both parts usually come in a rebuild kit, and are relatively easy to replace. it is a common issue, usually on older setups, or if it sat for a long time.

Thanks again, tmj. Now that I look, I see that the fuel pressure reads 3psi - not 6. I need to figure out how to adjust the regulator because when I turn the Alan fitting on top, it will only adjust down. It looks like there is another Alan fitting on the front side, so maybe that is the key to adjusting it up to 4.

The warmer the engine, the better the reaction to hitting the gas - but not perfect. I'll check the carb's accelerator pump and report back. The smell of gas is very strong while it idles, so I need to learn how to adjust a carb properly. The garage stinks of gas after I shut her down. Any suggestions on good books/websites on adjusting carbs?

As for the boiling overflow reservior under the rear radiator cap - I will be putting a vacuum plug over the overflow outlet with a hose clamp. Hopefully, this will stop the rear overflow, but the boiling worries me. I'll check to see if the electric water pump is working when the key goes on. Otherwise, maybe the thermostat is stuck. Like I said - the boiling coolant worries me...

Well, I am sure there are books and websites around that cover carb adjustments.
leaking accel pump check valve will cause rich running.
I like to verify that the check valves in the accel pump is truly sealing, float hight is set properly.
then on to idle adjustment. you can use a vac gauge on the manifold for this.
I use idle and "feel" for setting the idle. there are as many methods as mechanics for doing it. It is good to find a local guy who does carbs to show you how. tuning the seconday opening point and secondary jetting without a dyno is usually hit or miss,
there area few things at work there.
Gas smell is usually either wide open idle screws, overflow on the bowl from improper float height or leaking accel pump check valve. depending on the carb, could be a metering rod problem too. didnt' look at the carb specs to know how this carb is setup.

and by all means address the overheat first. you should not be seeing boiling water. get the air out first. that spot is no place for a coolant tank, it is under constant pressure there, right in the water flow. A vacuum plug is asking for trouble, it won;t hold.
het a small piece of reinforced hose that fits the port, a couple hose clamps, and a SS bolt to thread in the end. use that to seal it up for now until a more elegant solution is figured out. that will hold up to the heat and pressure.

Hey man - I noticed that you say your drivability problem is a bit better when the engine is warm. Maybe because your electric choke isn't wired? If the choke isn't working it will run like crap when its cold. I'll give you a ring when I get home tomorrow - after the Steelers game of course. BTW, the HS reunion was fun.

Then it went better than planned? Give me a ring. I'll be playing with the "Purple-Pain" some tomorrow.

I see Doc p[osted on an electric choke issue... that will also make for rich running. Is so hard to diagnose stuff over the internet,
you can;t always ask every thing you would check in just a glance.
Carbs are not hard. once you get some knowledge on how to work on them, you can get a nicely running car. even without fancy equipment you can get close to max power, and if you are nto planning on racing the car, you can easily get it running perfectly for day to day.
Seems you have a lot of little nits to pick off this car, I would suggest you make a list of them to clear. you got the brakes, fix the overheat, then verify any other safety issues. Honestly, a stock carb for tha motor should be close enough as long as you stay away from prolonged high rpm, that is the biggest exposure you would have, it leaning out and doing some damage.
running a little rich is better than lean.

oh, for that cap off, you can always get a longer piece of hose and disappear the capped end off out of site. slightly less ugly than a bolt hangin in mid air

------------------
Tom
88 GT 2.8l 5spd
76 30' ChrisCraft Tournament S/F
who has time for anything else?
Vodka: it's not just for breakfast!!

quote Originally posted by tjm4fun:I see Doc p[osted on an electric choke issue... that will also make for rich running. Is so hard to diagnose stuff over the internet, you can;t always ask every thing you would check in just a glance. Carbs are not hard. once you get some knowledge on how to work on them, you can get a nicely running car. even without fancy equipment you can get close to max power, and if you are nto planning on racing the car, you can easily get it running perfectly for day to day. Seems you have a lot of little nits to pick off this car, I would suggest you make a list of them to clear. you got the brakes, fix the overheat, then verify any other safety issues. Honestly, a stock carb for tha motor should be close enough as long as you stay away from prolonged high rpm, that is the biggest exposure you would have, it leaning out and doing some damage. running a little rich is better than lean. oh, for that cap off, you can always get a longer piece of hose and disappear the capped end off out of site. slightly less ugly than a bolt hangin in mid air

Again, tjm, thanks-

I got the piece of hose installed today and let the heavy end with the bolt in it disappear behind the coolant line above the back of the engine. I do need to secure it away from the exhaust to be safe. While back there, I saw the plugs for the remote trunk. They were melted through because they were disconnected and resting right on the exh. manifold.

After filling up the radiator, capping it off (after a big drink) and putting the cap back on, I jacked up the rear and filled up the back (another BIG drink) while bumping on the electric water pump to get as much coolant in there as possible. I closed her up and started her and let her run until I felt the warm coolant return from the radiator. Since both temp guages are not working (stock is stuck 1/4 of the way up and the aftermarket one is not reading), I did not let it run too long. I'll top her off tomorrow evening.

So, I need to figure out where the non-working guages are hooked to the engine - if at all. I called Yons to find out what he did for sensors, but got no answer and left another message. I guess I will have to go in and take things apart to see where the wires run. I may have to run my own lines but I don't know how to connect to the engine. I started another thread on this, but is it as simple as connecting a wire to one of the bolts on the intake manifold? I'd like to hook up both guages if I can.

I also started another thread about fixing/adjusting the Lambo doors and how to fix my left turn signal ground problem (side signal light). I'm so close to getting this car on the road, but without knowing the correct temp, I don't want to chance it! Thanks!

quote Originally posted by Saxman: Anyway, what can I do about the coolant overflow tube? "Kohburn" was over today and suggested capping it with a rubber cap, but that doesn't seem like it could take the pressure. I am probably wrong, but I just wanted another opinion. Maybe by capping the overflow in the rear and running the cooling fan, all will be well. I'll have to try it tomorrow.

Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but if you have overflows both in the rear of the car & the front simply run one of them with a high PSI radiator cap (thus effectively taking it out of the system).

quote Originally posted by RTNmsds: Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but if you have overflows both in the rear of the car & the front simply run one of them with a high PSI radiator cap (thus effectively taking it out of the system).

He can't do that. the rear tstat housing lloks like a modded fiero one. there is no provision for a seat for a normal radiator cap.

Which side scoops are those on there?

Brad

quote Originally posted by BtotheB:Which side scoops are those on there? Brad

I don't know. I'd like to find out. Anyone know?

I did get Yons on the phone today. He said he'll be sending the extra parts soon. Apparently, the temp guages used to work, so I need to find the disconnect. The radio is missing the adapter plug that goes between the Grand Am radio and the Fiero radio plug, so I need to find one of those. The paint has 3 coats of clear and he doesn't kow what the speaker wire that runs under the car from the driver's seat to somewhere close to the starter is for.

I talked to "Fino" for a while (and need to call him back) about temp sensors and how they can be wrong depending on which sensor is used. I'll also be pulling the ground wires that are right beside the side signal light and cleaning them up to see if that fixes the problem. My thread on fixing my signal problems is at https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/077086.html if anyone has the same problem.