quote Originally posted by NSAN1T: whos car is in the Cris Nelson video on streetfire.net? Click here to see Video just realized its Shaun's maybe?

Yeah, Shaun has a black Formula.
For the record, Chris Nelson now owns that intake.

quote Originally posted by Francis T: I didnt read the all the response so this may have been said. If you want to tune a daul TB setup right, buy a good vacuum gauge (not a boost gauge) or better still, two of them. Also do use a balance tube between the pleniums but don't use a solid welded one. Use one you can take off, like a large dia hose. Connect the vacuum gauge to one plenium and note the reading at idle and then see what the one reads. Adjust you idle stops until they match and reconnect the balance tube.

But isn't that what the tube does? i thought the balance tube was to balance out the two tubes in case they are uneven

Yes, but you do everything in your power to make sure they are NOT uneven. The balance tube only makes up for what unforseen airflow imbalances you can't correct.

I still think it's 90% irrelevant because of the idle air passage in the LIM

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-22-2006).]

Yes, he is totally right, and "ballance" tube is not neccessary. Both plates must be in the same position, checkem with a feller guage. I have a cross tube, but only to connect the MAP and fuel pressure regulator to make sure they are getting a good strong vacuum signal. And this is only a 1/8" hose. Take a look at the intake on a Viper V-10 they are doing the same thing.

Question for those who have built one of these intake manifolds:

Is the two bolt "pattern" attaching the TB to the plenum at exactly 45 degrees to the throttle shaft, as it appears to be?

bump for more info

Will.....It seems to be that way but I don't have any way to accurately check angles. From visual inspection it seems to be that way.

It's really hard to determine. It is very hard to measure angles, thats why I used a peice of 3/8 Dia. aluminum rod to go through the throttle shaft holes to keep them in-line while I welded the flanges to the tubes.

Regards, TT Slick

Interesting idea. I can probably solve the problem on a CMM...

I do not have one of these but I do have cable drawing experience, for the "on/off switch effect" of the throttle cable why not make a pulley wheel in the center and change the diameter of it for a ratio of whatever you want so the gas pedal can be pushed down as normal and will pull the TB's at the ratio of power you set up so it is more streetable... the pulley system would give you the full range of acceleration on the pedal and could be adjusted or taken off on weekends to go dragin...

I can build it better than explain it... sorry if it lost you...

and TT SLICK

would you build me one of these please?? if you start producing them ever drop me a line and let me know cost of one...

yeah I have studied this theory for a while, and am waiting to find a place/person to have one built for me so I can build tune it in the real world.... instead of just theories

Hey jack is your 400hp N/A 3.4ohv out of the shop yet?


I prefer to have the steel bar between the two TBs. My next intake will be made with equal length plenums. Right now they are slightly uneven so I had to bend the rod to get them even. Dude it really is pretty simple to have 1 made, but TT slicks is sweet. With me it is all about function and not show so simplicity was my main concern.

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 01-14-2007).]

I might be wrong but i didn't see any plans on "how to build a dual TB intake". I'm not tryin to push any buttons but i was wondering if there were any plans on building this intake? I'm egarly waiting to see these plans,
Thanks for any help

I was wondering if there would be a huge differance between an intake with Dual throttle bodies Vs. single throttle body. Like kept the design the same but instead of keeping the two sides seprate, if you joined it at the throttle body end like a Y and just ported out the stock throttle body, or possible a slighty bigger body. I don't know much about design, much less about air flow and restriction. I'm reading up as much as i can but just wondering if some one could shed some life on that.
also if it had a common throttle body would that solve issues with the difference in pressure.

The distributor is where the Y would come together, so design is a bit cramped. I am looking at the same thing for a turbo application, borrowing the best from goatnipples2002's dual TB setup and making it for a single TB.

Hudini I'm very interested to see how yours turns out. I wonderin if there is a way to turn the top part of the manifold around. Instead of the throttle body on the drivers side, would it be possible to put it on the passengers side? If all that would have to happen is the top of the intake has to be cut off and welded the other way To me that seems a little easier but again I haven't seen one of these stock Fbody intakes in person or have i much knowlage on the topic, but if it was that way air could enter on the passenger side. It would be cooler air on that side cause there isn't the exhaust and transmission right under it. The battery might get in the way but it could be ether transfered to the front of the car or just switched to the drivers side. Maybe i'm misunderstanding something fundamently in place about the stock intakes, but hey were modifying them anyways .

The Fbody intake has much better airflow with HP numbers about 20 above stock Fiero. Not sure how they mounted it though as the thermostat housing is in the way on that side.

The problem with cutting the intake and turning it is that the old intake is not symmetrical. One bank is slightly offset from the other.

Those intakes look great. I'd like to see a vanity cover over all of the tubing and wires in the middle - I think that would really clean it up and look nice.

I hate vanity covers. Just take the time to run the tubing and wires in an organized aesthetically pleasing way and you don't need a beauty cover because the effort you put into what you wanted to cover up is worth showing off.

GT2efiero - Now if you read the posts and look at the pictures it is pretty easy to understand what to do. I had this made so step by step pictures aren't going to happen from me. I admit I should have changed the name,but at first I was gonna document the build but the thread changed and there we have it. You should be able to look at the pictures and design yours because I didn't have anything to go off except these pictures. Read the 1st post and it should explain all...did you just look for pictures...cause this ain't a kid book...gotta read the words to get the message.

Hudini - The F body intake only flows like 25 cfm more than ours...it sucks too.

Douggg - I understand the whole "pretty engine" thing but I don't car about that stuff, only going fast. I race and my MAIN concern is going faster. But I do have a vanity cover you just can't see it...it has a spoiler on it...most call it a decklid.

How much room is there between your "vanity cover" (lol) and the top most part of the intake runners? Or are the TB's the highest point?

the Tbs are the highest but I had to notch out my decklid so the steel bat the connects my two tbs had full range of movement.

Yeah I read this entire topic, and i was just looking for more information. If there was anymore indepth plans for this, like one that i could get and replacate mine off of. Yes I'm sure alot of people could make a set of these just from looking at the pictures, I on the other hand am not so confident. Since i've seen a few of these types of intakes with the same general shapes, i should have rephrased my other post to better explain what i was asking about.
Thanks for clearing that up

Well I bought a middle intake and plan on coming up with something for a single TB. I want to make it a simple bolt on too. Don't hold your breath though, but I should be able to come up with something in the next couple months that you could work off of. Not a true dual intake like the above pictures, but borrowing the bigger runners with a bigger TB for better flow than stock so my T3 turbo will breath easier.

quote Originally posted by goatnipples2002: As this thread progresses I and others will remember more and more about this intake and what we would and should have changed. If something is not posted feel free to ask.

GT2efiero - Ask whatever is boggling your mind. Don't ask broad and vague questions those don't help you or anybody else. Let's get into detail. Not trying to be a prick just hard to understand what you want to know, I thought it was explained throughly. We are all here to learn.


Hudini - There is a guy name RacerX11 that did the same thing, if you look at the pics. He used exhaust flanges so it was easy to find parts and simplicity was emphasized. He had a dual runner single TB like you want. He used a 75 mm ford TB and made the "Y" so it went around the distributor cap and the TB was where he wanted.

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 01-19-2007).]

Alright to narrow it down, I was asking if it was possible with the f body intake to switch the TB to the passenger side, so that no only was it away from the exhaust but also the transmission(so it could get away from some heat)? From what has been said is the thermostate housing is in the way. Since there was a bit of fabracation anyways, would it be the same amount of work to put the TB to the other side?
Although after thinking about it, the effort put forth pry wouldn't really be worth it because from what i've read, the dual TB's would flow more air and translate into more horsepower. Which after all, isn't that what we really are looking for?

I'm Chris Nelson. I bought Shaun's DTB Manifold. I'm putting it on my heavily-modified 3.4L Camaro PR engine along with a 57 trim T3/T4 from Kohburn... Should be fun.

------------------

Nelson Autos
Click the Link to see my Fieros!
Bottle-Fed Silver 1986 Custom GT
Blue 1984 2m4

2005 Osage Beach CFOGi Car Show Video

I adovated using a vacuum gauge rather than a feeler gauge because the vacuum gauge will take into account everything related including anything before the TBs that may affect airflow. And while dual cone air filters look really cool, they wont provide really cool air and if your aim is to design the best setup, then ducting to a central air filter box recieving cool outside air would be better, especially on hot days. But then you may only care about looks? In addition to your fuel reg your brakes also work off of vacuum, I would rather have it get vacuum from all 6 cylinders than just 3 myself. No its not an apsolute need to have that balance tube, but it's also no big deal at all to make one for it, so why not? One other reason to use a vacuum gauge, you cant use a feeler gauge at high rpm when really want those pleniums blanced. I've tuned motorcyle carbs and they can be spot-on at idle and not so spot-on at mid to high rpm. Yes, they are different creatures with dif jets/needles for dif rpms, but still. And the cost and fuss is miniumal to connect one up and heck, you can have a neat little gauge right between the pleniums with maybe a fuel presure gauge to if you want it there. Good luck with your project.

quote Originally posted by TT Slick: Yes, he is totally right, and "ballance" tube is not neccessary. Both plates must be in the same position, checkem with a feller guage. I have a cross tube, but only to connect the MAP and fuel pressure regulator to make sure they are getting a good strong vacuum signal. And this is only a 1/8" hose. Take a look at the intake on a Viper V-10 they are doing the same thing.

quote Originally posted by Oslo: I'm Chris Nelson. I bought Shaun's DTB Manifold. I'm putting it on my heavily-modified 3.4L Camaro PR engine along with a 57 trim T3/T4 from Kohburn... Should be fun.

Could you post some pictures when you get it done? I'm just debating whether to use the dual TB setup with a "Y" pipe from the turbo to the TB's or a bigger single TB with a "Y" pipe going to the dual runners. It would be nice to see how you do it.

quote Originally posted by jack_ink: I was also looking into the dual TB setup and was wondering what it does to your gas mileage... and if you have fab'd anything to make the throttle response not so much of an on/off switch such as a pulley you can adjust the ratio's to from the cable

Who said the throttle response was off and on. I heard that from a few people before I made mine and I have realized they didn't from experience. There is no response issue. i don't have a pulley system. Mine is pretty primitive and simple. Just connect with a bar, i like this because cables may stretch or need readjustment where as mine "link" is easy and simple. Gas mileage is tricky because now I speed everywhere so it sucks on my account for that, I have bigger injectors that my computer isn't tuned for and I have more air coming in which my computer isn't tuned for. So ask me in about a month after some dyno and a darth chip.

I heard from other people that had built it in a thread it made it like an on/off switch... just trying to help and yeah I was just wondering what damage its taken on your gas mileage but its not tuned/chipped completely out... so lemme know when you get it finished... just so I can know the economy vs stockish

what length did you myake your "logs" for the dual tb?

quote Originally posted by p8ntman442: the quad 4 uses two style intake manifolds, one with 4 tubes 1/cyl and a log style with four runners. Even though the log looks more restrictive, it makes more power. Log style HO and w41 motors 4 runner LO motors cant find a pic right now

Just in case anyone has trouble seeing an image from Tripod... this is about the only thing I can contribute to this thread, but at least I'm trying.

My logs are roughly 12 inches. My next intake will have shorter logs.

I always wondered why this had such reportedly dramtic effects on the motor, now I know:

http://www.grapeaperacing.c...inductionsystems.pdf

read page 8.

(thanks to Ryan.hess for posting this in another thread)

you should be able to easily figure your correct sizing for the logs from that

[This message has been edited by tjm4fun (edited 03-24-2007).]

tjm4fun, I've been unable to access the presumably very enlightening link you've mentioned. Perhaps I'm alone in this, but all I get are error messages saying, "You are not connected to the Internet" (obviously false), "The website is encountering problems"' (possible), or "There might be a typing error in the address."

Might the problem be the last listed, the address that you've typed? (Has anyone else encountered this problem?)

that was a copy and paste for the other thread. I got to it last night.... lemme check...

edit. try it now. the copy from the thread did not work right. repasted in the correct link from the site.

http://www.grapeaperacing.c...inductionsystems.pdf

[This message has been edited by tjm4fun (edited 03-24-2007).]

Changed fuel pressure to 50 psi at idle. The pump used was an Airtex/Master E3270. Then changed the pressure to 62psi at idle. Still experimenting.

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 11-29-2007).]

quote Originally posted by goatnipples2002: Changed fuel pressure to 50 psi at idle. The pump used was an Airtex/Master E3270. Then changed the pressure to 62psi at idle. Still experimenting.

60?! yikes
thats 50% over designed spec
fuel lines in good shape? migth want to replace the rusty metal ones down by the fuel filter with some fresh stainless. really no want fuel line burst.

Lets talk more about the pressure in here.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/087916.html

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: 60?! yikes thats 50% over designed spec fuel lines in good shape? migth want to replace the rusty metal ones down by the fuel filter with some fresh stainless. really no want fuel line burst.

The E3270 or Syclone/Typhoon fuel pump is good for 80-90psi @ 20gal/75L an hour. The stock fuel pressure is between 35-40psi running and I am at 56ish running. This is also flowing pressure.

[This message has been edited by goatnipples2002 (edited 11-29-2007).]