It is that time again. After two years with my current setup I wanted more. Sounds familiar? Well, since I did my original swap I knew later on I would upgrade it with real nice parts. I could have wait but I have been buying some bargain parts here and there (intake) and the whole thing was triggered by an unexpected clutch failure (https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/077269.html) and an unusual great deal at Ebay for a brand new G6 trany. So the car goes into the operating room and down goes the cradle. My TPI setup consisted of a flat top piston roller block with stock heads and intake and a Crane HR-276-2S-12 cam. It put 236rwhp and 344rwtq. The key upgraded parts that will go in now are these;
- 52mm TB
- Ported upper plenum )by Corvette Plenums)
- AS&M big runners
- Edelbrock base
- AFR new Eliminator 180cc heads
- GMPP 1.6 full roller rockers
- Comp. Cams new XFI 268 cam
And of course for drive train the new F40 6 speed trany using Archie kit. Goal is to have some more power but not a drag car. I dirve this car very often so I want it to be enjoyable to drive without glitches and fuss nor lopy racing idle. For that goal I'm sure the new trany will be a big part (smooth shifts!). So here I will try to show you my journey and experience getting the F40 in. At then end after tuning I will dyno the car and see how much better powerwise it will be. Hope you like it

Original build thread: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000002/HTML/20060206-1-046290.html

Patient in operating room;


Gutted with new banger box waiting

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Palm Beach Fieros
http://pbfieros.tripod.com

[This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 10-07-2006).]

Some of the upgrades. Can you beleive that someone could ship a trany in a box full of plastic popcorn?? I can't beleive the only damage was a cracked speedo connector




Intake parts already ported and powder coated

Wow, that's really cool! I'm envious!

Here is more detail why these TPI parts are much better. This is the plenum. It was ported by Corvette Plenums. Awesome job they do. You can see how the TB rea and runners are opened up to the max.




These is a comparison of the AS&M runners to the stock units. These are the highest flowing runners you can get for a stock TPI look.



The caliper shows the stock runners diameter.


These is the Edelbrock base ported to match the runners.

[This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 10-07-2006).]

On my old Corvette, I added the BigMouth intake base, aftermarket semi-siamesed runners and ported the plenum to match (pretty much like yours) and on a stock iron head engine, the car picked up 2/10's in the quarter. I am very interested to see what kind of numbers you will put down with the new parts.

Alex, good luck with the re-fresh and remember check everything at least twice, especially the engine work, it can be frustrating and expensive when it goes wrong as I know only to well. I did pick-up my rebuilt engine this week but due to time and the coming of winter I don't expect to get it back together until spring. So I will just enjoy your build up, and look forward to the dyno run at the end, what sort of numbers are you hoping for ?

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84SE, aero body, 5 speed and a 350 V8

Nice, when your done I want to come over and take a look. I will have to do something with mine sooner or later.

mafv8; I hear you. I saw your very sad experience. I don't trust myself so I'm taking the heads,valvetrain and cam to be installed at my machine shop to be sure everything is ok. They degree the cam, ensure valve geometry is perfect after head shave and also shave the intake to ensure correct ftness.

Here are the power centerpiece of this refresh. These are the new design AFR Eliminator heads. 180cc with 75cc chambers but will be milled to get a 10:1 compression ratio. These puppies flow over 260 CFM maintaining great low speed velocity for good torque low end. CNC ported chambers and ports with springs for up to .600 lift. Also these new design use LSx type 8mm valves and springs for less weight

I'm a machininst by trade and I would have been proud to claim those heads as work done by me those things are exquisite!!! I hope that this build up will greatly increase the fun potential of your lil beast.....almost got kicked out of a junkyard today cause one of the guy's was mocking me when I asked him about a decent 4.9L to put in my lil 87 notchie....but thats a different story....good luck with all the mods and please post all the pics you can take without taking from build time....also why the F40 tranny i've heard that 1st was way too short and that it was a very notchie tranny? but reguardless I hope you enjoy!!

Laters

Brian

Good luck to you Alex. As you know you're the 1st one putting one of these together with the new video instructions.

Let me know if there's anything you need help with.

BTW: I have the DGI-5, should be getting the new circuits for it real soon.

quote Originally posted by Reise: I'm a machininst by trade and I would have been proud to claim those heads as work done by me those things are exquisite!!! Laters Brian

That's exactly what I thought when I look at those pictures, then I scroll down & you've already said it.

Archie

I am no machinist and I agree these are a work of art too. Too bad my wife doesn't let me have them in our living room

quote Originally posted by Reise: ..also why the F40 tranny i've heard that 1st was way too short and that it was a very notchie tranny? but reguardless I hope you enjoy!! Laters Brian

The F40 because is brand new and because it has 6 speed. Good for gas milage at Power Tour I heard about the short 1st in the Getrag and I don't agree unless you use the car for drag racing all the time so I guess it can't be worst on this one.

Archie;
The video instructions have been great and very clear. I like the detail of the intermadiate shaft install. What I'm not sure is if I missed where to put each cable at the trany side. I'm not there yet (nor close to it) but hope to get soon

Here are the GMPP roller rockers that will go in. Lift with these will be .570/.565 I/E

Why not just countersink the adapter plate so you dont have to notch the tranny case? You could make the hole large enough to get a socket in, and it would be perfect.

What is the flywheel like with this setup? dont G6's have special kid of flywheel? the one you have must be massive.

quote Originally posted by p8ntman442: Why not just countersink the adapter plate so you dont have to notch the tranny case? You could make the hole large enough to get a socket in, and it would be perfect.

What he's doing in this buildup is retrofitting the 6 speed to a V-8 car that has been assembled for a few years. He bought the adapter plate with the non-counterbored holes a few years ago. There was no reason to C'Bore those 2 holes until the 6 speed was installed as they didn't interfere with any of the original Fiero stick shift transmissions. The adapter plates that are currently in production all have these 2 holes C'bored.

With a Fiero Getrag this was not a problem, but on the new 6 speed there is an extra reinforcement wall in the Bellhousing. Check out the picture of the 6 speed showing the wall that would be equivalent to the Getrag case & then a 2nd wall that the 6 speed has.So guys doing a retrofit of the 6 speed into an existing V-8 car would need to either C'Bore those 2 holes on their old adapter plate or put a small notch in the extra wall on the transmission.



Archie

[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 10-08-2006).]

how much hp can the 6 spd take befor it blows up

quote Originally posted by Archie: What he's doing in this buildup is retrofitting the 6 speed to a V-8 car that has been assembled for a few years. He bought the adapter plate with the non-counterbored holes a few years ago. There was no reason to C'Bore those 2 holes until the 6 speed was installed as they didn't interfere with any of the original Fiero stick shift transmissions. The adapter plates that are currently in production all have these 2 holes C'bored. With a Fiero Getrag this was not a problem, but on the new 6 speed there is an extra reinforcement wall in the Bellhousing. Check out the picture of the 6 speed showing the wall that would be equivalent to the Getrag case & then a 2nd wall that the 6 speed has.So guys doing a retrofit of the 6 speed into an existing V-8 car would need to either C'Bore those 2 holes on their old adapter plate or put a small notch in the extra wall on the transmission. Archie

Archie, glad to hear the new ones have the counterbore, And I understand he is using a pre f40 design adapter, But I dont understand why he didnt modify his adapter plate, rather than cut the bell housing. Its not very hard.

quote Originally posted by p8ntman442: Archie, glad to hear the new ones have the counterbore, And I understand he is using a pre f40 design adapter, But I dont understand why he didnt modify his adapter plate, rather than cut the bell housing. Its not very hard.

Four reasons; 1st is too late. Done already. 2nd it was easier & faster to do the little notches to the trany. 3rd I don't have the counterssink equipment to do it and 4th it was cheaper

FieroWannaBe; Archie designed the kit to use the same V8 kit flywheel. An extra adapter is used.

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: Four reasons; 1st is too late. Done already. 2nd it was easier & faster to do the little notches to the trany. 3rd I don't have the counterssink equipment to do it and 4th it was cheaper FieroWannaBe; Archie designed the kit to use the same V8 kit flywheel. An extra adapter is used.

so it uses a offset friction plate that attatches to the flywheel?

[This message has been edited by FieroWannaBe (edited 10-09-2006).]

quote Originally posted by FieroWannaBe: so it uses a offset friction plate that attatches to the flywheel?

Yes

argggh lots of rotating mass, but still 6 speeds... But hell id love to have a 5 speed, damn muncie.

[This message has been edited by FieroWannaBe (edited 10-09-2006).]

What is the weight of the flywheel in the regular Archie kit? How much does the 6-speed kit add to the flywheel mass?
Just curious.

Direct quote from Centerforces Excel file.
FIERO w/ SM BLK CHEVROLET V8 ENG. 1986-92 V-8 ARCHIE KIT w/ GM 1pc. REAR MAIN V8 ENG. 23.4 IN/OZ - REQUIRES CENTERFORCE CLUTCH ASSEM. SEE FIERO CLUTCH SECTION. 12.835 153 YES 700502 28.2


28.2 pounds.

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Carlos A. Martinez
1988 Formula 5-speed, ZZ4 V8
www.txfieros.com

Another annoying problem to correct. Common to daily driver SBCs I guess. These headers fit great but the quality is not so good. Rusted ceramic coated? Isn't that supposed to avoid that? Oh well. I need to try to design soemthing to catch rain water in the front. It gets on top of the alternator, valve covers and headers and all failed due to that. I sent this set to Sanderson for repair. Main issue was the rich condition it caused as the crack was on top of the O2 sensor. Not a problem in carbed engines. More to come soon.

[This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 10-10-2006).]

bumpy when wet.

Hey Alex did you know that you don't need to run pushrod guideplates with the rockers your using?



I just checked this thread and noticed that your rockers have guides on the roller tip to keep the rocker centered over the valvestem. Not sure if you'll have any adverse effects by running both.

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HARDCORE SBC CRONIE AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?

quote Originally posted by FIEROPHREK: Hey Alex did you know that you don't need to run pushrod guideplates with the rockers your using? I just checked this thread and noticed that your rockers have guides on the roller tip to keep the rocker centered over the valvestem. Not sure if you'll have any adverse effects by running both.

Consulted that already. I'm using these rockers because I had them (got them cheap). Need the guides because on these heads the valves are much thinner than regular SBC heads valves and the guided rocker width is too big. So basically they are acting as regular rockers in this application. They are not installed yet. I'm taking the engine this week to the machine shop for them to do the long block.

To avoid some WATER related problems before I put my V8 back in a couple weeks back I made out of galvanized steel a plate that attaches to the two extra holes next to where my alternator mounts on the Archie Alternator mount. I cut and bent it and screwed it in place. It covers all the top of the alternator and causes any water to fall either behind or in front of it, and not INTO the alternator.

Also, to address the valve cover, exh. manifold on the V6 and this could be applied to the V8 too, I got some vinyl at a fabric shop, I used silicone to attach it to the very narrow lip on the side of the decklid that faces the glass, and then siliconed it to the metal under the window. this would cause any water to fall on either side of the manifold. In the V8's case some water might fall on the alternator since it is right under the hinge where I had the vinyl stop. But if you have a shield for your alternator too then you'd be covered there too. On the driver side water would fall in the empty space in front of the transmission, no problems there. Believe it or not the vinyle never melted. It would get soft but never melted and I had it like that until I had to remove the lid to do the V8 conversion. I need to get some new vinyl and redo this.

Another idea that I'm going to try first is to get some thick weatherstripping and attach it to the glass all the way from side to side. It needs to be thick enough to be snug when the lid closes and when the vents on each side are pressed in. This would give a real clean stock look. To take this a step further you can put some weatherstripping on the inside of the vents (most importantly the vent on the passenger side) where it meets the lid that runs right on top of the TPI intake if you have this. If all this is done right, most all water will fall into the vents, or in the space right above the shock tower that has no sensitive stuff around it. When I put my V8 back in I invested in a full set of ARP stainless bolts for the intake manifold and valve covers. I got some nice stainless ones for the TPI intake too on Ebay.

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Carlos A. Martinez
1988 Formula 5-speed, ZZ4 V8
www.txfieros.com

TxFieros: Do you have pictures of any of that? That would be nice. I was thinking about building some channel running side to side to catch water, specially when you poen a wet decklid. Also a separate one like you did for the alternator. All my bolts are SS. I got the nice TPI set at Ebay too.

I don't have pictures but if you like I can maybe take some pictures and edit some arrows and text in to describe what I did. Right now I just have the decklid with the factory flap I got a junked 86 GT, that does nothing but deflect water a bit further forward, but does nothing when opening the lid. Let me know, and I'll help you any way I can.


That vinyl thing worked great. I never got another drop of water on that side of the engine ever again. Water would fall on the crossover pipe bolts going down to the cat, and on the compressor on the other side with the V6, so it was all good.

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Carlos A. Martinez
1988 Formula 5-speed, ZZ4 V8
www.txfieros.com

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20050410-2-049534.html
Check this out, I wonder if he still makes them.

[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 10-11-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20050410-2-049534.html Check this out, I wonder if he still makes them.

That is what I need. I sent the guy an email. Let's see if he still sell those. Thanks!

Seems like a slick looking upgrade. Although, on my car there is no place to "slip" it in under the glass. There is a tiny gap between the glass and metal and it is full of window goo used to seal the window, and it's really hard. I guess another option would be to just silicone it to the metal under the window. It would do the same thing. Let me know if you get a reply.

BTW, took my Fiero out for it's first spin after getting it all back together again. The engine is really smooth now, and the LT4 HOT Cam sounds great, not that it didn't before, but now the ZZ4 doesn't vibrate.



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Carlos A. Martinez
1988 Formula 5-speed, ZZ4 V8
www.txfieros.com

[This message has been edited by TxFieros (edited 10-11-2006).]

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Archives/Archive-000001/HTML/20050410-2-049534.html Check this out, I wonder if he still makes them.

Did get a reply!!. He still makes them and have some in stock. Email him at Mwfreed1@aol.com. Just ordered mine. One less to do. Thanks Jake!

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: Consulted that already. I'm using these rockers because I had them (got them cheap). Need the guides because on these heads the valves are much thinner than regular SBC heads valves and the guided rocker width is too big.

Oh ok

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HARDCORE SBC CRONIE AND PROUD OF IT ! GOT TQ ?

Finished mounts. Ugly welds I know. Someday I'll get better. Trany mounted ready to check clearance at cradle.