Hello

A quick look at GM engines shows an interesting Turbocharged DOHC 2.8 liter 60 deg V6 used with a F40 six speed. This appears to be based on the existing 60 deg block that was our base 2.8, the 3.4 twin cam, and the push rod 3.1. It is used in a Saab. The designation is LP9.

A near bolt in perhaps..??

Not even close. It is a Saab engine. The engine that it replaced was the Catera engine. Caddy has been selling the 2.8L for a couple of years. We may get the turbo and the diesel versions in the near future.

A diesel 2.8 with the BOP (getrag) bolt pattern?
Don't say it aint so.
tg

It might match up to the Fiero tranny. I'm not sure, though.
The real problem is going to be the electronics.

quote Originally posted by TennT: A diesel 2.8 with the BOP (getrag) bolt pattern? Don't say it aint so. tg

BOP is the old RWD only patern from the 60's
like you find a 350th auto trans that doesnot fit a chevy it is BOP

our v6 getrag is a FWD patern and not BOP

GM paterns in the late 60's were chevy or BOP with caddy sometimes useing BOP
there are also a dynoglide patern that my 70 buick vista had

there is also the Q4 and ecotek getrags [do they match each other?]

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Question wonder and be wierd
are you kind?

quote Originally posted by ray b: there is also the Q4 and ecotek getrags [do they match each other?]

The Quad 4 and Ecotec have different patterns.
:-( Why GM, why?

OK I found some images of the bell housing. The lower image is the 2.8L auto trans. the upper image has the starter inn a different location and is a manual trans. It was listed as a 2.8L, but I am not sure.

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 12-21-2006).]

quote Originally posted by AJxtcman: Not even close. It is a Saab engine. The engine that it replaced was the Catera engine. Caddy has been selling the 2.8L for a couple of years. We may get the turbo and the diesel versions in the near future.

I's not a diesel. It is a GM engine. 2007 GM 2.8L Turbo (LP9) and is used in Saab 9-3's. It is rated at 250 HP @ 5500 rpm. It is mated to a 6 speed F40 gearbox. I looks like it is an evolution of the original 60 deg Chevy V6 that we are all faniliar with. I wicked hope so..!!

quote A 2.8 L turbocharged version (of the GM High Feature series engine) is used for the Saab 9-3 and other GM vehicles. It produces 250 hp DIN (184 kW) at 5500 rpm and 258 ft·lbf (350 N·m) at 2000 rpm. It has the same bore and stroke as the naturally-aspirated LP1, however the compression ratio is reduced to 9.5:1. There is also another variant available, with 230 hp DIN (169 kW). This engine is partly developed by Saab Automobile, and built in Australia. Applications: * 2007 Cadillac BLS * 2006 Opel Vectra * 2006 Opel Signum * 2006 Saab 9-3

Sounds cool...

Get it through your heads that there are now TWO 60 degree V6 families.

The pushrod engines are now known as the "high value" V6's.

The "high feature" V6's are a new engine family that is a clean sheet design. They share NOTHING with the pushrod engines. They are aluminum block DOHC VVT high technology masterpieces.

So....there is a new 60 deg GM twin cam V6 and transaxel that may be a near bolt in for the Fiero...
It is designated LP-9 for the turbo, and LP-1 for the normal. It's transaxel is the F40 six speed, and prblably a new 5 speed as well.

Has any one seen one in real life...and done some mesuring ?

I'm sure some one has already looked at the F40 transaxel. (??)

History of engine in USA Caddy's.
97-01 Catera 3.0L Quad cam, belt driven.
03-04 CTS 2.6L and 3.2L Quad cam, belt driven. same as Catera just bigger.
04-current CTS 3.6L Quad cam, chain driven, VVT, redisigned Catera engine, RPO LY7.
05- current CTS 2.8L little sister to 3.6L, RPO LP1.
The 2.8L is sold with a turbo in europe currently and as a Diesel also. This is designed together with the ECOTECH enginears. We will have dirrect Injection next year on the 3.6L and probably the 2.8L. dirrect injection is currently only on the 2.0L turbo Solstice. The 3.6L is used in some Buick FWD vans also.

It's all wishful thinking until the VVT tables are figured out. The DOHC motors with VVT are probably subject to valve piston interference if the VVT is not functioning properly meaning you will need both vehicle computers as well as a feed from all required sensors so until it is adequately hacked you are looking at a computer grafting nightmare to get one of these engines to work in a Fiero. If it is possible to have adaptors made for fixed cam positioning like what's being done for the 3900 VVT on the 60 degree forum things would be a lot more practical.

I was looking into this last year when I found something out about them. They are built by Opel. They are VERY $$$$ to fix or mod.

The 3.6 has the same bolt pattern as the 2.8 and is interchangable.

quote Originally posted by AJxtcman: 04-current CTS 3.6L Quad cam, chain driven, VVT, redisigned Catera engine, RPO LY7.

High feature V6 is a clean sheet design. It is not related to the Opel V6, although some of the same people had a hand in its design. For one thing, the Opel V6 had a 54 degree bank angle and iron block.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 12-22-2006).]

OK I should have stated a replacement engine for the 2.6L, 3.0L, 3.2L. How can you think it was an Opel engine? The second letter in the VIN is the Manufacture. It is O for Opel but, it is a Carline of V. V cars sold in the USA have been the GTO and the Craptera. Take a look at a GTO Vin. the GTO is Austrailian Holden Monaro. I was under the impression 4 years ago that the Craptera engine was an Opel. After starting at the Caddy dealer I was informed about the whole car. The engine design is a Saab. I have been told this by every employee and everyone at the training center.

so did this subject just die ? I am very interested in this motor as a viable swap . HP and TQ ratings are good in my book , engine was built with turbo in mind so more boost is an option. I bet mileage isn't bad either , some of the more experienced people here would you point me in the right direction so I could find out if this is an option ? I know that almost any engine could be used at any expense ..... I was hoping this would be a somewhat easy cheap ( other than engine cost ) option for a swap.

Thx

quote Originally posted by Kemp3: so did this subject just die ? I am very interested in this motor as a viable swap . HP and TQ ratings are good in my book , engine was built with turbo in mind so more boost is an option. I bet mileage isn't bad either , some of the more experienced people here would you point me in the right direction so I could find out if this is an option ? I know that almost any engine could be used at any expense ..... I was hoping this would be a somewhat easy cheap ( other than engine cost ) option for a swap. Thx

Just remember.....we live in California...the worst state for ANYTHING that is not stock on a car for smog

Just for info, where do the DOHC V-6's used in the Olds Alero and Intrigue fit in to this listing of GM V-6 families?

Joe

quote Originally posted by IMSA GT: Just remember.....we live in California...the worst state for ANYTHING that is not stock on a car for smog

lol so true , but I think everyone here "knows" a smog guy ..... If not most of these engine swap could go unnoticed aswell

Cmon look at some of the smog guys around

quote Originally posted by olejoedad: Just for info, where do the DOHC V-6's used in the Olds Alero and Intrigue fit in to this listing of GM V-6 families? Joe

If you're talking about the DOHC v6, they don't, not really. They're often called the "Shortstar," as the engine is based off of the Northstar v8.

so how do we go about finding out if this is a viable option ?

please don't say I have to buy one and just go for it .................. some kinda reassurance from others would be great .
What trans options do we have ? hell where can we find some real world info , from the picture I saw we need to move the oil filler and flip throttle body as well . Anything else anyone noticed ?

So has anyone actually had a crack at using one of the new High Feature V6s in a Fiero yet? I'm looking at repairing the spaceframe of my old '84 (which has a Series 1 3800 swap) and if I do, I wouldn't mind swapping the 3800 for one of the nice new 3.6L Alloytec LY7s...

Hello

I've been away form my projects since I started this thread,
but this is the one I'd really like to do.

So....has anyone seriously considerd it yet..??

Yellow

the problem with the way most forum members think about swaps is they always want to re use the fiero's electronics instead of the doner cars .the wreckers are willing to sell all the computers and wiring harnesses you need to do a plug and play installation .you dont even need the fiero computer in the system .thats what i did with my 2.2 ecotec swap .i had it running in 6 weeks and then i slowly added stuff to make it better (turbo , hp tuners ,cavalier dash cluster etc )axles and mounts are a different storey .i made my own mounts and luckily the stock fiero axles fit right in to the f23 cavalier 5 speed manual tranny .the stock gm computer is an amazing device .also cheap if you buy it all in a package from a wreck .this new all aluminum v6 has interested me me for a while now , but i am way too happy with my turbo ecotec 2.2 to change .
myths :engine wont work without the OEM radio , dash cluster and AC controls -not true in my case .most radios wont work after the battery dies untill you enter a code .this does not stop the rest of the car from running , it just prevents a thief from being able to use the radio .

WTFB, You got it!!

I'm also into swaps for Porsches, and putting a '94 Camaro 3.4 in a '78 924 took SEVEN wires to the Camaro's computer. Of course I used the Porsche's transmission, instruments & stuff, but it was California smog-legal and threw NO trouble codes.

I've also been interested in this motor for a while. All alluminum turbo 2.8 with VVT. Yea I could handle that.

The LP9 is a 2.8 L turbocharged version is used for the Saab 9-3 and other GM vehicles. It produces 255 hp (190 kW) EEC at 5500 rpm and 258 lb·ft (350 N·m) between 1800 and 5000 rpm. It has the same bore and stroke as the naturally-aspirated LP1, however the compression ratio is reduced to 9.5:1. There are also other variants available, with 230 hp (172 kW) EEC and 280 lb·ft (380 N·m) EEC. GM Powertrain Sweden (Saab Automobile Powertrain) has been responsible for the turbocharging of the engine. The engine is built in Port Melbourne, Australia.

Applications:

2007 Cadillac BLS
2006 Opel Vectra
2006 Opel Signum
2009 Opel Insignia
2006 Saab 9-3

quote Originally posted by Carcenomy: So has anyone actually had a crack at using one of the new High Feature V6s in a Fiero yet? I'm looking at repairing the spaceframe of my old '84 (which has a Series 1 3800 swap) and if I do, I wouldn't mind swapping the 3800 for one of the nice new 3.6L Alloytec LY7s...

Yep....
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...070315-1-035053.html

LOVE the swap, just wish I could re flash the PCM with some changes to improve the characteristics.

As it is now, I get shifts to soon and Red lines to soon.

Questions:

Is the 3.6 in the 2007 G6 part of the VVT High-feature family?
Is it the same motor that is in the RWD 08-09 base CTS?
And now the most important: Will the F40 bolt to it? Did this engine ever come with a manual transaxle? I know the SAAB 2.8 did, and even though it's just a Getrag F40, because it came from a "European" car the yards want a mint for them. Were there no domestic cars that used the same transaxle? The engines are starting to get cheap (the '07 G6 3.6s) and the tranny for the 3.9L G6 GTP is cheap, but I think the 3.9 was a pushrod engine and has a different bellhousing pattern. Has anyone sized up the drive axles to see how they'll fit in the fiero?
I have an 88 formula that is starting to get long in the tooth, and I've always wanted to do a swap. I figure a 255hp aluminum NA V6 and a six speed manual might do the trick.

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Animal- "Oh yeah! Mwah Mwah Mwah" (kissing drum set)
Kermit- "Uh huh. More than food, huh?"
Animal- "They ARE food! Eat Drums! Eat Cymbals!" (eating noises)
Kermit- "Hm. How 'cymbal'-ic!"
Animal- (looking abused) "BAD PUN!"

quote Originally posted by Carcenomy: So has anyone actually had a crack at using one of the new High Feature V6s in a Fiero yet? I'm looking at repairing the spaceframe of my old '84 (which has a Series 1 3800 swap) and if I do, I wouldn't mind swapping the 3800 for one of the nice new 3.6L Alloytec LY7s...

quote Originally posted by Rickady88GT: Yep.... https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...070315-1-035053.html LOVE the swap, just wish I could re flash the PCM with some changes to improve the characteristics. As it is now, I get shifts to soon and Red lines to soon.

A VERY nice swap Rickady, but not part of the High Feature V6 family.

quote Originally posted by fierodeletre: Questions: Is the 3.6 in the 2007 G6 part of the VVT High-feature family? Is it the same motor that is in the RWD 08-09 base CTS?

1. Yes, the LY7 was offered on the 07 G6 GTP's (and maybe the GXP's?)
2. The 08-09 base CTS also uses the LY7, with the LLT direct injection engine available also.

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My Web page | The Turbo Super Duty Build.
You know that little voice that says it can't be done? I duct-taped its mouth shut and pushed it down a flight of stairs. (Leader of the Insurgency)

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 04-08-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: It's all wishful thinking until the VVT tables are figured out. The DOHC motors with VVT are probably subject to valve piston interference if the VVT is not functioning properly meaning you will need both vehicle computers as well as a feed from all required sensors so until it is adequately hacked you are looking at a computer grafting nightmare to get one of these engines to work in a Fiero. If it is possible to have adaptors made for fixed cam positioning like what's being done for the 3900 VVT on the 60 degree forum things would be a lot more practical.

Joe a very good point. We are getting past the point where a new engine swap is just a bolt in and wire up job. Reliable and precise PCM editing software will have to be available that will enable some very radical changes to the program. Todays active fuel and torque management has presented some entirely new challenges to running successful swaps. In the past you could get around this by changing the PCM, installing a cable operated throttle body etc. But as you pointed out the current lineup of advanced engines has substantial mechaincal issues that need to be worked out as well. I believe that with time these issues can be solved but but until we get there, one would have to be a brave man to try one of these swaps.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
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" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Has nobody here ever heard of standalone engine management? Take an AEM system for instance. Wire the engine up to the AEM syatem, run all your creature comforts, set a base map, start, tune.

Ta da!

Dude, you're talking to Fiero owners. Stand alone is what normal people would do. If it costs more than $0.38, nobody on this board wants one.


A standalone is actually ridiculously easy (well, as easy as starting with a map full of zeros gets) for the new V6's because GM went to 60-2 crank wheels across the board a couple of years ago.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 04-08-2009).]

But as far as I can tell no 07 G6 GTP/GXPs with the High Feature engine were offered with a manual trans. This sucks. So we're back to square one, in that the only manual transAXLE available for one of these engines is the F40 found in the Saab 9-3 2.8T, which even though it's just a getrag transaxle, because it came out of a Swedish-branded car instantly becomes made alchemically solid gold in the eyes of wreckers, which SUCKS. Why oh why, GM, don't you offer a manual on the high feature G6? It would make my dreams of a 304 horse Formula so much easier to obtain.

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Kermit- "So you like your drums huh?"
Animal- "Oh yeah! Mwah Mwah Mwah" (kissing drum set)
Kermit- "Uh huh. More than food, huh?"
Animal- "They ARE food! Eat Drums! Eat Cymbals!" (eating noises)
Kermit- "Hm. How 'cymbal'-ic!"
Animal- (looking abused) "BAD PUN!"

F40 isn't a Getrag.

Who does then? I thought the F** series of transaxles were all Getrags.

The F23 is a Getrag.

The F35 and F40 are both listed as "GME", which I think means GM Europe. The F40 is a collaboration between Fiat and GM, thus is was originally called FGP for Fiat/GM Powertrain. It's hard to get more info out of it, because GM Media does a piss-poor job of bringing out the technical background of GM products.