quote Originally posted by Knight: I was wondering. What would be a cost estimate of this upgrade. Even better would be a parts/supplies list with estimated prices off to the side. Also, Darth, would you be willing to modify a 7730 with the necessary wires & connectors (with extra long wiring to cut to fit) if I sent one to you and how much would you charge. Also, each time I upgrade my engine, how do I modify the ECM software or do I need to send it back to you. If I do need to send it back to you for reprogramming, what info would you need to properly tune it. Oh yeah...how much besides shipping would you charge for reprogramming each time?

Ok, lets see if I can put something together off the top of my head. For some of the following prices, assume used parts purchased from a salvage yard...

-7730 ECM incl V6 mem-cal, wiring connectors, and some wiring - $50-$75 used
(if no V6 mem-cal is included with the ECM, one would need to be purchased - approx $65 from gmpartsdirect.com)

-Knock sensor, new - about $35

-Custom chip programming done by me - $45

Above is the absolute minimum you would need to purchase to pull this swap off less EGR hookup. If you wanted to hook the EGR up and make it functional, you would need to obtain/purchase the EGR, EGR adapter plate, wiring connector for the EGR, and extra wiring to run inside the car for the EGR. Again, you DO NOT need the EGR unless you have emissions testing in your area; it can be deleted in the chip program.

Now concerning the wiring, it is a pretty "simple" swap. I would be willing to put together a write-up and provide it to anyone who wants it so they could do the conversion at their end. This conversion is NOT going to require much soldering/rewiring at all. Most of what's involved is repinning the ECM connectors which you would do 1 at a time; so it would not be difficult, just time consuming. Some soldering and splicing would be required both inside the car and in the engine compartment but what is required is minimal.

Again, as far as a 100% plug-and-play kit; I have given some thought to this and it is going to be very difficult if not impossible to put something together that would fit in the space constraints inside the Fiero where the factory ECM resides. It would be far easier (and cheaper) to just repin/modify an existing Fiero harness instead of trying to put some sort of plug-and-play kit together.


Regarding your question concerning my custom chip tuning service, please PM or email me for details on that.

-ryan

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 01-13-2007).]

Please yes. Send me the info on the swap. Pictures if at all possible. I sometimes have a hard time visualizing anything. I am currently looking for parts on e-bay for this upgrade. PM me or send to knight_@cox.net please sir.
BTW, thank you so much for all the help you are giving me. You are definitely due a + once I reach 30 posts.

I, too, would be interested in info on this. It will probably be this summer before I can actually start proceeding, but would like the info and my knowledge to be complete before starting the project.

James

quote Originally posted by Knight: Please yes. Send me the info on the swap. Pictures if at all possible. I sometimes have a hard time visualizing anything. I am currently looking for parts on e-bay for this upgrade. PM me or send to knight_@cox.net please sir. BTW, thank you so much for all the help you are giving me. You are definitely due a + once I reach 30 posts.

email will be on it's way shortly concerning the chip reprogramming...

As far as the instructions go, yes I will include some pics to help you visualize what needs to be done and what you will need to do it.

-ryan

Correct me if I am wrong. From what I have found out the following is true:
*The only difference between the 7727 and the 7730 is that the 7727 is 'weatherproofed' to be used in the engine compartment. If this is true, are the connector plugs identical?
*The only difference between the 7730 and the 7749 (Turbo 4.3 Syclone/Typhoon) is the 7749 is missing one quad driver and has additional injector driver. Are the connector harness plugs the same?
*The EPROMs are the same between all three. Two EPROMs are used: 27C128 16K * 8 or 27C256 32K * 8. Does that mean that one is a 16K, 8 bit processor and one is a 32K 8 bit processor? Or am I reading it wrong? What is the rel world difference between the two in terms of programing and function/abilities?
*The 7730 can replace the 7170 used in the Fiero with minimal modifications.
*The 7730 was placed in an "underhood case" for use in the McLarren 3.1L Turbo Grand Prix (Called the 7727)

Now since the 3.1 turbo uses a a 7727 (7730 encased), is there any real advantage to using a 7749 for a turbo application 3400? Is the only benefits to the 7749 the ability to control an additional injector? What is a quad driver? Is it a fuel injection driver and if so is that used for the 3.1 turbo?

Sorry for all the questions.

Thank you 81tta and Darth Fiero for the info and sites that have helped me so fa. I am so grateful to everybody that is helping me figure out how to upgrade my 2.8 to a 3400 with eventually a turbo. I am so electrically challenged!

Ryan:

You got a lot of press on my swap, just a follow up on the car:

440T4 2000rpm @70mph
starts good with no cold start injection even below 20 degrees
idle is at a steady at 700rpm
car runs strong

mpg is 28 city and 35 hwy
car runs on 87 octane fuel as well

440T4 seems to have a final drive of about 284

again thanks Ryan, we love the upgrades

well worth the money for anyone who has a stock 2.8 3 speed automatic

[This message has been edited by Capitol City Fiero (edited 01-13-2007).]

I

quote Originally posted by Knight: Correct me if I am wrong. From what I have found out the following is true: *The only difference between the 7727 and the 7730 is that the 7727 is 'weatherproofed' to be used in the engine compartment. If this is true, are the connector plugs identical? *The only difference between the 7730 and the 7749 (Turbo 4.3 Syclone/Typhoon) is the 7749 is missing one quad driver and has additional injector driver. Are the connector harness plugs the same? *The EPROMs are the same between all three. Two EPROMs are used: 27C128 16K * 8 or 27C256 32K * 8. Does that mean that one is a 16K, 8 bit processor and one is a 32K 8 bit processor? Or am I reading it wrong? What is the rel world difference between the two in terms of programing and function/abilities? *The 7730 can replace the 7170 used in the Fiero with minimal modifications. *The 7730 was placed in an "underhood case" for use in the McLarren 3.1L Turbo Grand Prix (Called the 7727) Now since the 3.1 turbo uses a a 7727 (7730 encased), is there any real advantage to using a 7749 for a turbo application 3400? Is the only benefits to the 7749 the ability to control an additional injector? What is a quad driver? Is it a fuel injection driver and if so is that used for the 3.1 turbo? Sorry for all the questions. Thank you 81tta and Darth Fiero for the info and sites that have helped me so fa. I am so grateful to everybody that is helping me figure out how to upgrade my 2.8 to a 3400 with eventually a turbo. I am so electrically challenged!

There is at least one pin difference between the 730 and 727 and I believe it involves the wastegate solenoid as discussed on the 60 degree forum in a post on adding a patch to the TunerproRT software to allow wideband O2 datalogging. The 727 has four plugs instead of the 730s two. Now that I think about it, I may ditch the 727 harness I've nearly completed and opt for the 730 once I compare the wiring diagram to the Fieros since it is capable of running the TGP code. As for the epromms I don't believe they are exactly interchangeable as far as exchanging 128 Kb with 256. I know you can use the higher speed in the lower speed application but I don't believe it will work properly in the opposite configuration. Someone with more knowledge of the specifics can clarify.

Ok, lets clarify some things here...

quote Originally posted by Knight: Correct me if I am wrong. From what I have found out the following is true: *The only difference between the 7727 and the 7730 is that the 7727 is 'weatherproofed' to be used in the engine compartment. If this is true, are the connector plugs identical?

No, the two computers use different connectors AND different wiring terminals.

quote *The only difference between the 7730 and the 7749 (Turbo 4.3 Syclone/Typhoon) is the 7749 is missing one quad driver and has additional injector driver. Are the connector harness plugs the same?

True about the internal differences between the 7730 and 7749. I believe the connectors are identical.

quote *The EPROMs are the same between all three. Two EPROMs are used: 27C128 16K * 8 or 27C256 32K * 8. Does that mean that one is a 16K, 8 bit processor and one is a 32K 8 bit processor? Or am I reading it wrong? What is the rel world difference between the two in terms of programing and function/abilities?

From what I have heard, most of the same code masks can be used in all 3 computers; I don't think there is a difference in processing power between the computers. All 3 computers use the same type mem-cal. The Syclone/Typhon 4.3L Turbo uses a 27C128 chip. The 7730/7727's use a 27C256 chip. All 3 computers WILL WORK with the 27SF512 flash memory chip. You just have to offset the start of device address to the correct setting when programming the 27SF512 flash memory chip for use in these applications.

quote *The 7730 was placed in an "underhood case" for use in the McLarren 3.1L Turbo Grand Prix (Called the 7727)

Concerning internal hardware, the 7727 and 7730 are pretty much identical. The only difference besides the casing is the connector design and wiring terminals (because they have to be sealed to the connectors). You cannot use the Fiero wiring terminals with the 7727 ECM; but they will work with the 7730 ECM.

quote Now since the 3.1 turbo uses a a 7727 (7730 encased), is there any real advantage to using a 7749 for a turbo application 3400? Is the only benefits to the 7749 the ability to control an additional injector? What is a quad driver? Is it a fuel injection driver and if so is that used for the 3.1 turbo?

A quad driver is nothing more than a controlled output (used for controlling an electric fan, EVAP solenoid, indicator lamp on the dash, etc). The 7749 ECM was also used on early Quad 4 and 87-90 Sunbird 2.0L Turbo engines which I think used Peak-and-Hold injectors (low impedence). The only reason why I brought up the 7749 is because it was used in the 4.3L Turbo Syclone/Typhoon applications which use a distributor; and it is this code mask you would probably want to use in a turbo 2.8 application. (FWIW, I am posting wiring diagrams and pinouts of the Sy/Ty ECM to my website as we speak). From what I have heard, the Sy/Ty [$58 code mask] can be used in a 7727/7730 ECM without any problems (although I haven't personally tried it).

quote Originally posted by Knight: I'm getting excited at the possibility of putting a 3.4 or a 3400 with 4-speed auto. I want to upgrade my current ECM in my 86 2.8. and place an upgrade engine /transmission in my engineless 88.

If you plan on dropping in a 3400, you will need to reroute the complete harness for the motor. We've done two 3400 swaps and using the 7730 ecm for our set-up and wroks just great. I've dyno'd at 175hp and the wheels. Have a few ideas to open it up a little more while still N/A. I'm sure Darth would be able to program a chip for you no problem. I have a friend that did mine, he's used to put 3400's in J-bodies. Also, you don't want the tranny that comes with the 3400, it's electronic controlled, try to find a 4T60 that uses a kick-down cable. Mines a 5 speed, so a little less wiring to do.

My 3400 install


2nd swap which uses stock 2.8 timing cover and accesories.


Nice work on the upgrade Darth, already have someone that might be interested in doing this. Must add this to my fav also.




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[This message has been edited by x-thumpr-x (edited 01-14-2007).]

Thanks guys. Very helpful.
The 3400 won't run an electronic transmission? Crap! I wanted a strong transmission that could handle the torque and was planning on a 4T65e. Can a 4T60 be beefed up with 4T65e internals?
And that 3400 install -- DAMN that is what I am talking about. I want to have the intake and valve covers painted red like your second picture. Please explain about rerouting the engine harness.

Darth,

Is it correct to assume the 7730 ECM upgrade with work with a 95 Camaro 3.4 engine that I'm currently installing into my 86GT with OD 4-speed auto transmission. The 3.4 will be a hydrid, 3.4 displacement & 2.8 heads, intake and ignition system, etc. If that is the case, the 7730 ECM upgrade will work with the engine upgrad I'm also interested in doing the upgarde.

Thanks for you work on the subject and provide the group the information.

Regards,
Mike

quote Originally posted by Knight: Thanks guys. Very helpful. The 3400 won't run an electronic transmission? Crap! I wanted a strong transmission that could handle the torque and was planning on a 4T65e. Can a 4T60 be beefed up with 4T65e internals? And that 3400 install -- DAMN that is what I am talking about. I want to have the intake and valve covers painted red like your second picture. Please explain about rerouting the engine harness.

The 3400 V6 will work with the 4T65-E transmission but you must use an OBD-2 computer (99-up), or use an aftermarket TCM (transmission control module). The 7730 ECM does NOT have the ability to control an electronic transmission.

The 440-T4/4T60 transmissions can accept some internal upgrades, but it is unclear if they can be built as strong as a 4T65-E can be. How much power is your 3400 engine going to be making?

I am hoping for 400+. The members on 60degree6.com were discussing bending a crank beyond that. I am going to look into a bearing cradle to prevent this and improved oiling as one episode was blamed on spinning a rod bearing. I was hoping to do a paddle shift conversion using an aftermarket TCM and a kit. Just can't remember the link.

[This message has been edited by Knight (edited 01-15-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Knight: I am hoping for 400+. he members on 60degree6.com were discussing bending a crank beyond that. I am going to look into a bearing cradle to prevent this and improved oiling as one episode was blamed on spinning a rod bearing. I was hoping to do a paddle shift conversion using an aftermarket TCM and a kit. Just can't remember the link.

If you think there will be a problem with crank strength some of the 3500 V6s have steel cranks that can be turned down to the proper throw diameter, look for the numbers 7484 stamped on the end of the crank snout to know for sure that's what the engine has without having to do much more than remove the harmonic balancer retaining bolt. If you plan on turbocharging it would be easier to use the entire short block if the compression ratio will be in the range you would like. It will not be as low as the cast iron heads on the 3400 would be since the 3500 heads have a slighly larger combustion chamber than what's found on the 3400. The short block accepts a distributor also.

The late model fwd blocks have substantial main bearing reinforcement via the sidebolts through the oil pan and the windage tray bolted to the caps.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 01-15-2007).]

What are the differences between the 3500 non-VVT and the 3400. Will the 3500 replace the 3400. I know that the 3900VVT and de-stroked 3500VVT are a different engine than the 3500 non-VVT. Can't remember if its both the block and heads. I just don't want to deal yet with all the computer and electronic issues that have yet to be fully dealt with for the latest GM V6 engines. Someone on 60degree6 has a cable conversion for the 3500's drive by wire throttle. I think it is mentioned in the thread about a 3500 head on a 3400 short block hybrid.

I just knew that was your car .......hello Bob

quote Originally posted by Capitol City Fiero: Ryan: You got a lot of press on my swap, just a follow up on the car: 440T4 2000rpm @70mph starts good with no cold start injection even below 20 degrees idle is at a steady at 700rpm car runs strong mpg is 28 city and 35 hwy car runs on 87 octane fuel as well 440T4 seems to have a final drive of about 284 again thanks Ryan, we love the upgrades well worth the money for anyone who has a stock 2.8 3 speed automatic

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" DRIVE IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT"

Haven't had much time to put togther a rewiring instruction sheet because I am knee-deep in the next swap. I WILL get to it at some point and will post it to my website when it is ready. Might be a couple of weeks tho.

-ryan

Anybody have a spare 7730 lying around...like in a corner...on a shelf...in a garage...in a car...

Try Ebay, I found a few there.

------------------
Vin

Registered since March 2003
Fieros at The Glen 2007
86 SE 2M6 Deceased
86 SE 2M4 Burned
87 GT Black
87 GT Med. Red over Silver

Ryan time for a bump..........................

quote Originally posted by Knight: What are the differences between the 3500 non-VVT and the 3400. Will the 3500 replace the 3400. I know that the 3900VVT and de-stroked 3500VVT are a different engine than the 3500 non-VVT. Can't remember if its both the block and heads. I just don't want to deal yet with all the computer and electronic issues that have yet to be fully dealt with for the latest GM V6 engines. Someone on 60degree6 has a cable conversion for the 3500's drive by wire throttle. I think it is mentioned in the thread about a 3500 head on a 3400 short block hybrid.

The 3500 has a better flowing intake system including the heads which many of the fwd 3400 guys are swaping their top end for. It also has larger diameter crank pins to stiffen the crank, one oil squirter for pistons #5 & 6 and 5.9" rods along with a few other minor external changes that should prove it to be overall stronger than the 3400 with a question mark for the pistons since the pin is moved closer to the top. Who knows GM may have used forged pistons in it like those found in the 3.6 DOHC motor found in the front wheel drive vehicles now as documented on their site. It's not likely but then again they also stated the steel crank was reserved for the 3500 V6 SUVs and I discovered personally on two occassions that was not the case in engines from a 04 Malibu and 05 G6 with the 3500.

quote Originally posted by Knight: Thanks guys. Very helpful. The 3400 won't run an electronic transmission? Crap! I wanted a strong transmission that could handle the torque and was planning on a 4T65e. Can a 4T60 be beefed up with 4T65e internals? And that 3400 install -- DAMN that is what I am talking about. I want to have the intake and valve covers painted red like your second picture. Please explain about rerouting the engine harness.

you can get a controller to run a 4t65e in your fiero for less than $800.00 and it gives you options that you would want on a strip and possibly street. putting an electronic tranny is easy if it bolts up and you can get axles.

[This message has been edited by timgray (edited 01-18-2007).]

quote Originally posted by timgray: How about tuneability? the fiero ECM has lots of info out there to get a guy into chip modding quite easy, how much info is out there for this newer ECM and chipset? Do you use TunerCat with it easily or do you use somethign else?

I use tunercat software for both ECMs. From what I have seen, the OE Fiero 2.8 computers have much less items that can be tuned than the 7730 system. Below are some examples of what can be changed in both ECMs using the Tunercat software...

quote 85 Fiero 2.8 ECM ECM Switch Parameters Sync. Mode Closed Throttle Fuel Transmission Type (X = Manual) 2 Bar MAP Sensor Present Knock Sensor Enable (X = Enabled) EGR System Present (0 = Enabled) EGR System Diagnostic Enable (Error 32) MAP Sensor High Diag Enable (Error 33) MAP Sensor Low Diag Enable (Error 34) Knock Diagnostic Enable (Error 43) O2 Sensor Lean Diag. Enable (Error 44) O2 Sensor Rich Diag. Enable (Error 45) ECM Constants Spark Reference Angle Cool. Comp. Spark Advance Bias Extended Spark RPM Slope EGR Spark Advance Correction Bias Knock Retard Per Test Loop Delay for Knock Retard Recovery Max Allowable Knock Retard Base Pulse Constant Min. Async Injector Pulse Width Max. Async Injector Pulse Width Minimum Coolant Temp. For Closed Loop Closed Loop Delay Timer Sync Fuel Mode Enable P.W. Threshold Sync Fuel Mode Disable P.W. Threshold Cold Engine AFR Coolant Temp Threshold Crank AFR Decay Scale Factor Minimum BLM Maximum BLM Stochiometeric Air Fuel Ratio Power Enrich. Enable RPM Threshold Power Enrich. Enable Delta TPS Thresh. Power Enrich. Mode AFR Power Enrich Enable Primary TPS Thresh. P. E. Enable Primary TPS Thresh. Hyster. P. E. Enable Secondary %TPS Threshold Power Enrich Enable Primary MAP Thresh. Power Enrich Enable Secondary MAP Thresh Power Enrich Enable Coolant Temp Thresh Accel Enrich Enable Delta MAP Threshold Accel. Enrich. Enable Delta TPS Theshold TPS Thresh. for 2X Delta MAP A.E. Thresh TPS Thresh for 4X Delta MAP/TPS AE Contr Decel Enlean Enable Delta MAP Threshold Decel Enlean Enable TPS Threshold DFCO Enable RPM Limit DFCO Disable RPM Limit Decel Fuel Cutoff (DFCO) Rate DFCO Enable Speed Threshold DFCO Disable Speed Threshold DFCO Enable %TPS Threshold DFCO Enable MAP Threshold DFCO Enable MAP Threshold Hysteresis Clear Flood %TPS Threshold Clear Flood AFR Desired Idle RPM in Park/Neutral Idle RPM Adder For A/C On EGR Enable Coolant Temp. Threshold EGR Enable %TPS Threshold EGR Disable %TPS Threshold EGR Enable Vacuum Threshold EGR Disable Vacuum Threshold EGR Diagnostic Upper Duty Cycle Limit TCC Lock Speed Threshold TCC Unlock Speed Threshold Max. Positive Delta TPS For TCC Enabled Max. Negative Delta TPS For TCC Enabled TCC Low MPH Coast Load Limit TCC High MPH Coast Load Limit TCC Coast Load Limit High/Low MPH Thresh TCC Coast Load Limit Hysteresis TCC Enable Coolant Temp. Threshold TCC Lockup Delay Fuel Cutoff Engine Speed Fuel Resume Engine Speed Fuel Cutoff Speed Fuel Resume Speed A/C Disable %TPS Threshold PROM ID N/V Ratio for 5th Gear N/V Ratio for 4th Gear N/V Ratio for 3rd Gear N/V Ratio for 2nd Gear N/V Ratio for 1st Gear RPM Tolerance for 5th Gear RPM Tolerance for 4th Gear RPM Tolerance for 3rd Gear RPM Tolerance for 2nd Gear RPM Tolerance for 1st Gear Shift Light Delay Time (1st Gear) Shift Light Delay Time (2nd - 5th Gear) Shift Light Enable RPM (4th -> 5th) Shift Light Disable MAP (4th -> 5th) Shift Light Enable RPM (3rd -> 4th) Shift Light Disable MAP (3rd -> 4th) Shift Light Enable RPM (2nd -> 3rd) Shift Light Disable MAP (2nd -> 3rd) Shift Light Enable RPM (1st -> 2nd) Shift Light Disable MAP (1st -> 2nd) Tables ECM Switch Table ECM Constant Table Main Spark Advance Vs. RPM Vs. MAP Cool Compensation Spark Vs Vacuum EGR Spark Advance Correction Vs. %EGR Power Enrich Spark Advance Vs RPM Cold Engine AFR Vs. Coolant Temp. Vs. MAP Crank Air Fuel Ratio Vs. Coolant Temp. Time-Out Run AFR Correction Vs. Coolant Temp. %Volumetric Efficiency Vs. RPM Vs. MAP %Vol. Efficiency Adder Vs. RPM Accel Enrich. Delta MAP Factor Vs. Delta MAP Accel Enrich. Delta TPS Factor Vs. Delta TPS Accel. Enrich Temp. Correction Vs. Cool. Temp. Decel Enlean Temp. Correction Vs. Cool. Temp. Decel Enlean Delta MAP Factor Vs. Delta MAP Decel Enlean. Delta TPS Factor Vs. Delta TPS Base Pulse Constant Vs. EGR Duty Cycle BPW Battery Voltage Correction Vs. Battery Voltage Injector PW Correction Vs. Battery Voltage Low Pulse Width Injector Offset Vs. BPW MAT BPW Correction Factor Vs. MAT Desired Idle RPM Vs. Battery Voltage Fast Idle IAC Position Offset Vs. Coolant Temp. Power Steering Stall IAC Position Offset Vs. Baro %EGR Vs. Vacuum Vs. RPM TCC Upper Load Limit Vs. MPH TCC Lower Load Limit Vs. MPH Knock Attack Rate Vs. RPM Knock Retard Recovery Rate Vs. RPM Shift Light Enable RPM Vs. %TPS (All Gears)

quote 86-88 Fiero 2.8 ECM ECM Switch Parameters Sync. Mode Closed Throttle Fuel Transmission Type (X = Manual) 2 Bar MAP Sensor Present Speed Sensor Diag. (Error 24) Wastegate Overboost Diag. (Error 31) EGR Diagnostic (Error 32) O2 Sensor Lean Diagnostic (Error 44) Knock Sensor Diagnostic (Error 43) O2 Sensor Rich Diagnostic (Error 45) ECM Constants Spark Reference Angle Cool. Comp. Spark Advance Bias Extended Spark RPM Slope EGR Spark Advance Correction Bias Base Pulse Constant Min. Async Injector Pulse Width Max. Async Injector Pulse Width Minimum Coolant Temp. For Closed Loop Closed Loop Delay Timer Sync Fuel Mode Enable P.W. Threshold Sync Fuel Mode Disable P.W. Threshold Cold Engine AFR Coolant Temp Threshold Crank AFR Decay Scale Factor Minimum BLM Maximum BLM Stochiometeric Air Fuel Ratio Power Enrich. Enable RPM Threshold Power Enrich Enable Primary TPS Thresh. P. E. Enable Primary TPS Thresh. Hyster. P. E. Enable Secondary %TPS Threshold Power Enrich Enable Primary MAP Thresh. Power Enrich Enable Secondary MAP Thresh Power Enrich. Enable Delta TPS Thresh. Power Enrich Enable Coolant Temp Thresh Power Enrich. Mode AFR Accel Enrich Enable Delta MAP Threshold Accel. Enrich. Enable Delta TPS Theshold TPS Thresh. for 2X Delta MAP A.E. Thresh TPS Thresh for 4X Delta MAP/TPS AE Contr Decel Enlean Enable Delta MAP Threshold DFCO Enable RPM Limit DFCO Disable RPM Limit Decel Fuel Cutoff (DFCO) Rate Decel Enlean Enable TPS Threshold DFCO Enable Speed Threshold DFCO Disable Speed Threshold DFCO Enable %TPS Threshold DFCO Enable MAP Threshold DFCO Enable MAP Threshold Hysteresis Clear Flood %TPS Threshold Clear Flood AFR Desired Idle RPM in Park/Neutral Idle RPM Adder For A/C On EGR Enable Coolant Temp. Threshold EGR Enable %TPS Threshold EGR Disable %TPS Threshold EGR Enable Vacuum Threshold EGR Disable Vacuum Threshold EGR Diagnostic Upper Duty Cycle Limit TCC Lock Speed Threshold TCC Unlock Speed Threshold Max. Positive Delta TPS For TCC Enabled Max. Negative Delta TPS For TCC Enabled TCC Enable Coolant Temp. Threshold TCC Low MPH Coast Load Limit TCC High MPH Coast Load Limit TCC Coast Load Limit High/Low MPH Thresh TCC Coast Load Limit Hysteresis TCC Lockup Delay Fuel Cutoff Engine Speed Fuel Resume Engine Speed Fuel Cutoff Speed Fuel Resume Speed A/C Disable %TPS Threshold N/V Ratio for 5th Gear N/V Ratio for 4th Gear N/V Ratio for 3rd Gear N/V Ratio for 2nd Gear N/V Ratio for 1st Gear RPM Tolerance for 5th Gear RPM Tolerance for 4th Gear RPM Tolerance for 3rd Gear RPM Tolerance for 2nd Gear RPM Tolerance for 1st Gear Shift Light Delay Time (1st Gear) Shift Light Delay Time (2nd - 5th Gear) Shift Light Enable RPM (4th -> 5th) Shift Light Disable MAP (4th -> 5th) Shift Light Enable RPM (3rd -> 4th) Shift Light Disable MAP (3rd -> 4th) Shift Light Enable RPM (2nd -> 3rd) Shift Light Disable MAP (2nd -> 3rd) Shift Light Enable RPM (1st -> 2nd) Shift Light Disable MAP (1st -> 2nd) PROM ID Tables ECM Switch Table ECM Constant Table Main Spark Advance Vs. RPM Vs. MAP Cool Compensation Spark Vs Vacuum EGR Spark Advance Correction Vs. %EGR Power Enrich Spark Advance Vs RPM Cold Engine AFR Vs. Coolant Temp. Vs. MAP Crank Air Fuel Ratio Vs. Coolant Temp. Time-Out Run AFR Correction Vs. Coolant Temp. Closed Throttle %Vol. Eff. Vs. RPM Vs. MAP OpenThrottle %Vol. Eff. Vs. RPM Vs. MAP %Vol. Efficiency Adder Vs. RPM Accel Enrich. Delta MAP Factor Vs. Delta MAP Accel Enrich. Delta TPS Factor Vs. Delta TPS Accel. Enrich Temp. Correction Vs. Cool. Temp. Accel Enrich. RPM Correction Vs. RPM Decel Enlean Temp. Correction Vs. Cool. Temp. Decel Enlean Load Correction Factor Vs. MAP Decel Enlean Delta MAP Factor Vs. Delta MAP Decel Enlean. Delta TPS Factor Vs. Delta TPS Base Pulse Constant Vs. EGR Duty Cycle BPW Battery Voltage Correction Vs. Battery Voltage MAT BPW Correction Factor Vs. MAT Injector PW Correction Vs. Battery Voltage Low Pulse Width Injector Offset Vs. BPW Desired Idle RPM Vs. Battery Voltage Fast Idle IAC Position Offset Vs. Coolant Temp. Power Steering Stall IAC Position Offset Vs. Baro %EGR Vs. Vacuum Vs. RPM TCC Upper Load Limit Vs. MPH TCC Lower Load Limit Vs. MPH Shift Light Enable RPM Vs. %TPS (All Gears)

quote 90-92 F-body 3.1 7730 ECM ECM Switch Parameters VATS Select (X = active) Transmission Type (X = Manual) Normally Open Fan 1 Request Normally Open Fan 2 Request Lean Cruise Option (X = active) Highway Mode Fuel (X = enabled) Fuel Mode (0 = AFR Mode X = BPW Mode) O2 Sensor Diagnostic (Error 12) Vss Sensor Diagnostic (Error 24) EGR Diagnostic (Error 32) Knock Sensor Diagnostic (Error 43) VATS Diagnostic (Error 46) ECM Constants Initial Spark Advance Extended RPM Spark Advance Slope Main Spark Extended RPM Limit EGR Spark Adv. Correction Bias Launch Mode Knock Attack Rate Multiplier Launch Mode Spark Advance Bias Launch Mode Vehicle Speed Threshold Launch Mode Positive Delta TPS Thresh. Launch Mode Disable Neg. Delta TPS Launch Mode Enable Delta MAP Thresh. Launch Mode Disable Delta MAP Thresh. Maximum Time in Launch Mode Idle Spark Enable TPS Threshold Idle Spark Enable Speed Threshold Idle Spark Disable TPS Threshold Idle Spark Disable Speed Threshold Highway Mode Spark, Max MAP Highway Mode Spark, Min Coolant Temp. Highway Mode Spark Disable RPM Threshold Coolant Compensation Spark Advance Bias TCC Locked Spark Retard Bias Initial Time Out Spark Bias Knock Retard Enable RPM Threshold Knock Retard Enable Speed Threshold Knock Retard Enable Coolant Temp. Thresh Fan 1 On Coolant Temp, Low MPH, A/C Off Fan 1 Off Coolant Temp, Low MPH, A/C Off Fan 1 On Coolant Temp, Hi MPH or A/C On Fan 1 Off Coolant Temp, Hi MPH or A/C On Fan 1 Low/High MPH Threshold Fan 2 On Coolant Temp, Low MPH, A/C Off Fan 2 Off Coolant Temp, Low MPH, A/C Off Fan 2 On Coolant Temp, Hi MPH or A/C On Fan 2 Off Coolant Temp, Hi MPH or A/C On Fan 2 Low/High MPH Threshold Fan 1 On Time Delay Fan 2 On Time Delay IAC Steps Added for Fan 1 On IAC Steps Added for Fan 2 On Max Vehicle Speed for Idle Idle RPM Offset for A/C On Fuel Cutoff RPM Fuel Resume RPM Fuel Cutoff Vehicle Speed Fuel Resume Vehicle Speed Minimum RPM for Block Learn Maximum RPM for Block Learn Maximum RPM for Idle Block Learn Minimum BLM Value Maximum BLM Value Minimum Integrator Value Maximum Integrator Value Stochiometric AFR Maximum Allowable AFR Highway Mode Fuel AFR Highway Mode Fuel Enable Speed Highway Mode Fuel Disable Speed Minimum Async Pulse Width Maximum Async Pulse Width Injector Flow Rate Injector Flow Rate (Display) Cold Closed Loop Enable Timer Warm Closed Loop Enable Timer Hot Closed Loop Enable Timer Max Coolant Temp for Cold C/L Timer Min Coolant Temp for Hot C/L Timer Min. Closed Loop Coolant Temp. Power Enrich TPS Enable Hysteresis Power Enrich Enable MAP Threshold Power Enrich Enable MAP Hysteresis Accel Enrich Enable Delta TPS Threshold Accel Enrich Disable Delta TPS Threshold CCP Enable Coolant Temp Threshold A.I.R. Enable Coolant Temp. Threshold Minimum EGR Duty Cycle EGR On VE Compensation Factor EGR Enable Min Coolant Temp EGR Disable MAP Threshold EGR Enable MAP Threshold TCC Lock Delay Time Unconditional TCC Lock Vehicle Speed TCC Disable TPS Threshold, Low Gears TCC Enable TPS Threshold, Low Gears TCC Lock Enable MPH Thresh, Low Gears TCC Lock Disable MPH Thresh, Low Gears TCC Lock Enable MPH Thresh, Low Gr, A/C TCC Lock Disable MPH Thresh, Low Gr, A/C TCC Disable TPS Threshold, High Gear TCC Enable TPS Threshold, High Gear TCC Lock Enable MPH Thresh, High Gear TCC Lock Disable MPH Thresh, High Gear TCC Lock Enable MPH Thresh, Hi Gr, A/C TCC Lock Disable MPH Thresh, Hi Gr, A/C TCC Lock Enable Coolant Temp Threhold TCC Lock Disable Coolant Temp Threhold Number of Cylinders Road Speed Constant Instrument Panel VSS Pulse Divisor Prom ID Tables ECM Switch Table ECM Constant Table Main Spark Advance Vs. MAP Vs. RPM Base Cool. Adv. Correction Vs. Load Vs. Cool. Temp Launch Mode Spark Advance Vs. RPM Vs. MAP PE Spark Advance Correction Vs. AFR EGR Spark Advance Correction Vs. % EGR TCC Locked Spark Retard Vs. RPM Vs. MAP Highway Mode Spark Advance Vs. MAP Initial Time Out Spark Vs. Coolant Temp. Time Out Spark Decay Vs. Startup Coolant Temp. Knock Retard Attack Rate Vs. RPM Knock Retard Attack Rate Vs. RPM in PE Knock Retard Recovery Rate Vs. RPM Knock Retard Recovery Rate Vs. RPM in PE Maximum Knock Retard Vs. RPM Maximum Knock Retard Vs. RPM in PE Idle Spark Multiplier Vs. Coolant Temp. Idle Spark Multiplier Vs. MAP Idle Overspeed Spark Retard Vs. RPM Error Idle Underspeed Spark Advance Vs. RPM Error Main Volumetric Efficiency Vs. RPM Vs. MAP Volumetric Efficiency Adder Vs. RPM Idle Volumetric Efficiency Vs. RPM Vs. MAP VE Correction For EGR On Vs. RPM Vs. Vacuum VE Correction for EGR Vs. MAP (TCC Locked) Base Pulse Constant Multiplier Vs. MAP/Baro Ratio Base Pulse Constant Multiplier vs Baro Base Pulse Constant Vs. Desired % EGR Power Enrich Enable TPS Thresh. Vs. Coolant Temp. Open Loop Idle AFR Correction Vs. MAP Open Loop AFR Vs. Coolant Temp. Vs. Map Closed Throttle Open Loop AFR Vs. Coolant Temp. BPW Offset Vs. Battery Voltage Low BPW Correction Vs. Pulse Width Power Enrich Mode AFR Vs. RPM Accel Enrich Factor Vs. AE Pulse AE Async Pulse Multiplier Vs. Coolant Temp. AE Async Pulse Multiplier Vs. Delta TPS AE Async Pulse Multiplier Vs. Baro AE Async Pulse Multiplier Vs. MAT Crank Fuel PW Vs. Coolant Temp. Crank PW Multiplier Vs. RPM Crank PW Multiplier Vs. Reference Pulse Crank PW Multiplier Vs. TPS Crank PW Multiplier Vs. Baro Desired Idle Speed Vs. Coolant Temp (In Drive) Desired Idle Speed Vs. Coolant Temp (In P/N) Max Throttle Follower Steps Vs. RPM Max Throttle Follower Steps Vs. Vehicle Speed Max Throttle Follower Steps Mult. Vs. Cool Temp Throttle Follower Decay Rate Vs. Vehicle Speed TCC Lower Load Limit Vs. MPH, Low Gear TCC Upper Load Limit Vs. MPH, Low Gear TCC Lower Load Limit Vs. MPH, High Gear TCC Upper Load Limit Vs. MPH, High Gear EGR Duty Cycle Vs. MAP Vs. RPM EGR Duty Cycle Multiplier Vs. Coolant Temp.

Just because of the datastream speed alone, the 1227730 is FAR more of a tuneable ECM then the V6 Fiero's could ever be. You see the actual curve of the O2 sensor as opposed to 1.5 second sample rates. The 7730 will do 10 samples in ONE SECOND!!!

quote Originally posted by Fierobsessed: Just because of the datastream speed alone, the 1227730 is FAR more of a tuneable ECM then the V6 Fiero's could ever be. You see the actual curve of the O2 sensor as opposed to 1.5 second sample rates. The 7730 will do 10 samples in ONE SECOND!!!

Agreed. Also, the processing power/speed of the 7730 also appears to be better than the OE Fiero 2.8 ECMs.

What are the chances that I could install one of these into my 2.5 L4?

I know that it wouldn't make much difference in power or anything. I just want to get rid of the hunting idle and possibly increase it's efficiency.

------------------
Kendall (Icelander) Whitlatch
'85 Fiero 2M4 - 5spd Isuzu
'67 LeMans/GTO clone 6.5 litre TH400
All the rest aren't Pontiacs, so what does it matter?

It *is* possible to use this computer with the 2.5L 4. Though it was never intended to control this engine, it was used on the 2.0 OHC, which is simular in some ways.

The big selling point with the V6's is that the two connectors on the V6 harness plug into the 7730, the wires just have to be moved around a lot, and a third connector added, and some of the pins moved over to it. The Iron duke has what are called PCB edge connectors, which are not compatible with the 7730, therefore you would have to change all the pins on all the connectors to get it to work. THEN you will need to tune it to the duke, which behaves and is tuned pretty differently from a 2.0L OHC. Im not even sure if the ignition systems are compatible, but they likley are the same knowing GM.

Good to know. Sounds like if I'm going to go to all that effort, I might be better off waiting to I do my engine swap and use the ECU from that vehicle.

Thanks for the feedback!

[This message has been edited by Icelander (edited 01-18-2007).]

another candidate ecm would be the '749
fan control
boost control
boost controled spark timeing and fuel tables (calibrations exist for 50lb injectors and 3 bar map sensors)
will run with single or dual knock sensors
will recognise wideband with an easy change to the $58 code
programable shift lights or auto trany shift locations
most tuning soft wear will work with the $58 code
a new self tuning (to a certain point) $59 code is on the horizon
lots of naturally asperated GM vehicles used this ecm besides the various turbo applications
Data Master will log all the ecm data for over 2 hrs ($100 + laptop)
moats has a chip adapter that allows you to burn 16 diff bins on one chip and switch easily between them

ECM $35 on ebay
tuner cat is free
moates single bin adapter is about $40
reusable chips are about $5
chip burner is $85

and Cooter on this board has already done a 2.8 so the bins exist to get you started



------------------

GT just waiting for the conversion
84 Fiero Turbo Vortec 4300 Phantom GT
L35 block, Syclone Intake and ECM
T31 turbine with T04B S3 compressor
super T61 waiting for next winter
www.cardomain.com/id/vortecfiero
Murphy's Constant Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value
Murphy's Law of Thermodynamics Things get worse under pressure.
Arthur C. Clarke "Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

[This message has been edited by vortecfiero (edited 01-20-2007).]

Got a spreadsheet put together for the wiring conversion. It can be viewed/downloaded here:

http://www.gmtuners.com/files/Fiero2.8_to_7730.pdf

I have wiring diagrams and pinouts for both the Fiero 2.8 ECM's as well as the 90-92 Camaro 3.1 ECM available for download at my website.

-ryan

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: Got a spreadsheet put together for the wiring conversion. It can be viewed/downloaded here: http://www.gmtuners.com/files/Fiero2.8_to_7730.pdf I have wiring diagrams and pinouts for both the Fiero 2.8 ECM's as well as the 90-92 Camaro 3.1 ECM available for download at my website. -ryan

Thanks Ryan, can't wait to get started! I hope your're on call for questions. -Jason

First thanks Darth for the ecm comparisons (that ought to give me something to do for a while comparing them).
The 7749 functions and abilities and such as listed by vortecfiero are all good. Since the 7730 and 7749 are so similar, do these also apply to the 7730?
What does self-tuning (to a certain point) mean? And as compared to the Fiero's ecm? I thought that everytime you disconnected your battery that the ecm would have to relearn some parameters/values? Does the Fiero ecm not do that?
With the use of a wideband O2 sensor, will the ecm make adjustments to the fuel and spark to keep the A/F ratio at where it is programmed tho keep it. Is this the self tuning that was mentioned?
Who is moates and cooter? Please provide links to both.
Thanks

Rebump back to the top of page 1

Huh?

quote Originally posted by Knight: Is this a 7730? The description lists it as "THE PART NUMBER IS 16171331 AND THE SERVICE NUMBER IS 01227/30" on eBay. :http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=009&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=190071721326&rd=1,1 If so, then this is my new ECM! Thanks.

Yes, that looks like the 7730 ECM you would need.