quote Originally posted by Hudini: Question for Ryan: Can the 7730 ECM control a 4t60e transmission?

Nope. However, if you are using a engine that is DIS compatible, you can install the DIS ignition system and use a 91-93 W-body V6 computer (16149396 $DF) which will work with a 4T60-E.

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 02-08-2007).]

Ryan just want to give it a bump and keep it alive

Any update on the EGR adapter plate?

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Vin

Fieros at The Glen 2007
MAFOA
86 SE 2M6 Deceased
86 SE 2M4 Burned
87 GT Black
87 GT Med. Red over Silver

Seems I overlooked something. If the 7730 ECM uses a knock sensor, where do I put one on my stock 2.8L ??? I haven't gone out and physically looked yet but I don't THINK my engine has one.

quote Originally posted by cropduster: Seems I overlooked something. If the 7730 ECM uses a knock sensor, where do I put one on my stock 2.8L ??? I haven't gone out and physically looked yet but I don't THINK my engine has one.

The stock 2.8 Fiero engine does not have a knock sensor installed. However, it does have provisions for a knock sensor. If you are using an earlier engine block, you can simply install the proper knock sensor into one of the block coolant drain ports. If you have a later block, it will have a seperate boss already tapped with the proper size pipe thread for a knock sensor in the back of the block. If you are installing a knock sensor into an older block, only use teflon paste to seal the threads on the sensor, do not use teflon TAPE. The reason for this is because the sensor has to ground to the block thru the threads. Teflon tape can prevent a good ground connection between the sensor's threads and the threads in the block.

Thanks, it's good to know there are provisions for the sensor. As far as the "proper" sensor, I'm assuming the one that originally came with the ECM ('86 Beretta) or is it really all that critical?
BTW, how's the EGR adapter coming??

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Mick
1986 GT

quote Originally posted by cropduster: Thanks, it's good to know there are provisions for the sensor. As far as the "proper" sensor, I'm assuming the one that originally came with the ECM ('86 Beretta) or is it really all that critical? BTW, how's the EGR adapter coming??

The knock sensor you should use should match the mem-cal that you are using in the computer. The mem-cal used in the 7730 ECMs contains the PROM chip, the backup fuel chips, and the knock sensor interface module. The knock sensor interface module is percisely calibrated to work with a specific knock sensor. If you happen to get a used ECM and are not sure what car it and it's mem-cal came out of, I have a way of looking up the information found printed on the mem-cal to determine what vehicle it came from so you can get the correct knock sensor.

Concerning the EGR adapter, I haven't been doing much work on it lately because I have been busy in the shop. However, it looks like ohio86se has already came up with a CAD model so all we need to do is get it transferred to material so it can be fit tested.

-ryan

There are alot of 1227730 ECM's for sale on ebay motors but the knuckleheads are removing the memcal and trying to sell you that extra. They are also trying to sell the wiring pigtails extra. You would pay close to $100 for everything you need.

So, Ryan, if one was forced to buy a 1227730 without the memcal, could you provide one for purchase when you burn the new prom?

Ryan: So would a 9396 ecm run a 3.5 with a 4t60e. Would this be the best 60* V6 swap with out the VVT feature?

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85 GT 3.4
14.9 @ 90 1.9 60' Old TH125/3.06
Unknown New 4T60/3.42

how about this for an egr?
http://69.14.156.113/id/cars/fiero/11.jpg

quote Originally posted by Lilchief: Ryan: So would a 9396 ecm run a 3.5 with a 4t60e. Would this be the best 60* V6 swap with out the VVT feature?

The Newer 3.5 pushrod engine? The 9396 ran the 3.1 AND the 3.4 DOHC with the 4T60-E. The only difference between those engines and the 3.5 is a bit of displacment or flow characteristics, and the crank trigger/ignition module. I think it was Joseph Upson(?) that was working on a conversion kit for the older crank trigger to work with the 3.5 crank. That would make it plug and play, with some tuning of course.

As for the 3.5 being the best 60º V6? it's subjective... I'm a 3.4 DOHC person.

Will the 7730 ECM run a 1987 Stock 2.8 with a Getrag 5 speed, and if so, what would it take, other than the wiring harness pigtails and changing some wires around to actually set one up? I know where there is a 7730 ECM for 15 bucks with Memcal...

If I get it, I want to know what to get specifically to be able to get this in the car and on the road within 2 days...

quote Originally posted by Synthesis: Will the 7730 ECM run a 1987 Stock 2.8 with a Getrag 5 speed, and if so, what would it take, other than the wiring harness pigtails and changing some wires around to actually set one up? I know where there is a 7730 ECM for 15 bucks with Memcal... If I get it, I want to know what to get specifically to be able to get this in the car and on the road within 2 days...

Well, if you do not want it, sell it to me....

2 days and it has to be perfect? Good luck.

quote Originally posted by Hudini: There are alot of 1227730 ECM's for sale on ebay motors but the knuckleheads are removing the memcal and trying to sell you that extra. They are also trying to sell the wiring pigtails extra. You would pay close to $100 for everything you need. So, Ryan, if one was forced to buy a 1227730 without the memcal, could you provide one for purchase when you burn the new prom?

New mem-cals are still available from GM. Look to pay $50-$80 for a new mem-cal. I can order one for you if you need one.

quote Originally posted by Lilchief: Ryan: So would a 9396 ecm run a 3.5 with a 4t60e. Would this be the best 60* V6 swap with out the VVT feature?

As Fierobsessed stated, the pushrod 3.5 has a different crank trigger setup. In order to use this engine you would have to do as he said and get a crank trigger setup that worked with the older style coil pack; which in turn would work with the 9396 ECM.

quote Originally posted by antinull.com: how about this for an egr?

That would certainly work if you didn't mind not having an EGR valve (and didn't have emissions testing).

quote Originally posted by Synthesis: Will the 7730 ECM run a 1987 Stock 2.8 with a Getrag 5 speed, and if so, what would it take, other than the wiring harness pigtails and changing some wires around to actually set one up? I know where there is a 7730 ECM for 15 bucks with Memcal... If I get it, I want to know what to get specifically to be able to get this in the car and on the road within 2 days...

Yes, the 7730 ECM will run a stock 1987 2.8 w/ getrag 5-speed, but won't work with the stock Fiero 2.8 EGR system. What it would take is explained in detail in previous posts I have made to this thread.

-ryan

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 02-15-2007).]

Just a bump for a great mod.

i can get the 7730 ecms pretty regularly w/ mem-cal and wiring for $50 shipped if anyone is interested let me know. i curently have 2 extra ones in hand, and take paypal

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Glenn Lintemuth
A&P Mechanic
Colorado Springs, CO
88' Convertible "BeyondGT"
88' GT, white 5speed
89' K-5 Blazer on 44's
04' Silverado Ext Z71 on 33's

quote Originally posted by 88formulaman: i can get the 7730 ecms pretty regularly w/ mem-cal and wiring for $50 shipped if anyone is interested let me know. i curently have 2 extra ones in hand, and take paypal

Do they come with the plugs and some wiring pigtails?

Anybody come up with an EGR adapter plate to sell yet???

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Mick
1986 GT

quote Originally posted by cropduster: Anybody come up with an EGR adapter plate to sell yet???

I made one...It's not that hard. -Jason

I might be able to make a few more... If I can find a few more of the stand offs. It's been way to cold and way too much snow to go trudge around a junkyard.

quote Originally posted by Capitol City Fiero: Ryan: You got a lot of press on my swap, just a follow up on the car.... mpg is 28 city and 35 hwy car runs on 87 octane fuel as well 440T4 seems to have a final drive of about 284 again thanks Ryan, we love the upgrades well worth the money for anyone who has a stock 2.8 3 speed automatic

is this mpg for real? If so I would be willing to pay to have you do this to my 88 Formula automatic

Ryan:

A pigtail actually CAN be fabricated, with some hard work; here is what it can look like....

[This message has been edited by yorkere (edited 02-23-2007).]

quote Originally posted by FieroMonkey: is this mpg for real? If so I would be willing to pay to have you do this to my 88 Formula automatic

it should be. it should be a little better than a V6 Grand Am. same drivetrain, lighter car.

It's worth noting that the fuel economy CC Fieros got was probably mostly due to the OD transmission and it's gearing he is using in his swap. I doubt you will see this kind of fuel economy with a 125-C or getrag Fiero transmission even if you run the 7730 ECM. Although, I will say the 7730 ECM did have a highway mode fuel setting active in this code mask which will help a little with highway fuel economy.

-ryan

Ryan, there seems to be a lot of interest in this mod but no one yet has said if they are actually doing it. I'm still waiting for an easy solution for the EGR. Looks like I'll be going to a salvage yard to hack off what I need from a 3.4 EGR boss then finding a welder........
How many people have sent you a chip lately to burn??

I have a few picky questions now.
You stated that:
"The EVAP system did require the addition of a computer-controlled EVAP solenoid and some rerouting of vacuum lines for it."
What solenoid do I need and where does it go? Will it run without it or is it required for emissions or driveability?

"In addition, you will need some extra wires to run out to the engine to connect the inj driver grounds to the block, as well as the digital EGR and EVAP solenoid"
The way I see it, I need a few feet of wire to go from the ECM to the items plus the knock sensor too. Are you drilling a hole through the firewall and using a grommet or are you getting the pins and using the original pass-thru connectors? That 3rd ECM connector has to pass through somewhere!

This is my daily driver so I'm just trying to get my ducks in a row to do it over a weekend. Can't afford any surprises........

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Mick
1986 GT

I can't answer for Ryan, of course, but can offer an observation from my '86 GT. Below and behind the plastic carrier for the ECM are 2 large solid rubber plugs. On mine, one has the metal brake vacuum line running though it. The other has nothing through it. It is the perfect place to run any extra wires without having to drill any new holes in the firewall. I ran an extra chassis ground to the engine block though the same rubber grommet as the vacuum line runs through.

I just purchased a 7730 yesterday so I will be following your progress. Please post any issues you have. Maybe a nice thread with pictures?

Ryan you out there??????????

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Mick
1986 GT

quote Originally posted by cropduster: Ryan, there seems to be a lot of interest in this mod but no one yet has said if they are actually doing it. I'm still waiting for an easy solution for the EGR. Looks like I'll be going to a salvage yard to hack off what I need from a 3.4 EGR boss then finding a welder........ How many people have sent you a chip lately to burn?? I have a few picky questions now. You stated that: "The EVAP system did require the addition of a computer-controlled EVAP solenoid and some rerouting of vacuum lines for it." What solenoid do I need and where does it go? Will it run without it or is it required for emissions or driveability? "In addition, you will need some extra wires to run out to the engine to connect the inj driver grounds to the block, as well as the digital EGR and EVAP solenoid" The way I see it, I need a few feet of wire to go from the ECM to the items plus the knock sensor too. Are you drilling a hole through the firewall and using a grommet or are you getting the pins and using the original pass-thru connectors? That 3rd ECM connector has to pass through somewhere! This is my daily driver so I'm just trying to get my ducks in a row to do it over a weekend. Can't afford any surprises........

Sorry, been very busy in the shop lately...

Concerning the EVAP solenoid, you don't absolutely need one if you are using the stock Fiero intake and throttle body. You can keep the factory Fiero EVAP system hooked up, as-is. If you want the 7730 ECM to control it, all you need to do is install the EVAP solenoid between the large vac port on the canister and the engine. You can get an EVAP purge solenoid from pretty much any GM car or truck. It has two vac ports and a 2-wire electrical plugs. One vac port will be labeled "CAN" which is the port that connects to the canister.

Concerning the additional wires, you don't have to drill any holes in the firewall. If you have an automatic car, you will have one rubber grommet just plugging a hole in the firewall. You can drill a hole in this grommet and feed the wires thru it. If you have a manual car, you won't have any unused holes but the speedo cable grommet is an oval so you can carefully drill a hole in the unused area of this grommet to run your wires thru.

Concerning the PROM chips I have had some interest in chips for this mod but not as many as you would think.

Thanks for the response Ryan. I'll be sending you a chip when I find my ECM but I need to nail down everything I'll be doing first. I'm also going to change the tranny to a 440T but now I'm looking at maybe a 3400 too!

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Mick
1986 GT

So my 7730 ECM arrived in the mail (thanks 88formulaman) and I need the pinouts and wiring changes for an '86 GT. Anyone have that info or know where I can look? I looked at Darth Fiero's website and found the pinout for a 89 Baretta but am somewhat confused (never tried this before). All the labels on the diagram are marked with 3 or 4 letters and numbers like YE12 or BB9. I am guessing the code is something like Y=Yellow connector, E=side of 32 pin connector marked E, 12=the 12th pin on that side marked 1 to 16. Am I close? So BB9 would be Black connector, B side, pin 9?

quote Originally posted by Hudini: So my 7730 ECM arrived in the mail (thanks 88formulaman) and I need the pinouts and wiring changes for an '86 GT. Anyone have that info or know where I can look? I looked at Darth Fiero's website and found the pinout for a 89 Baretta but am somewhat confused (never tried this before). All the labels on the diagram are marked with 3 or 4 letters and numbers like YE12 or BB9. I am guessing the code is something like Y=Yellow connector, E=side of 32 pin connector marked E, 12=the 12th pin on that side marked 1 to 16. Am I close? So BB9 would be Black connector, B side, pin 9?

Try this one: http://www.gmtuners.com/files/Fiero2.8_to_7730.pdf

Concerning the wiring terminal ID's, those should be self-explanitory on the pinout you have. "YExx" terminal is the yellow connector, E-side. "BBxx" terminal is B side of the black connector, but this computer has two black connectors so look at the pinouts you downloaded to determine which connector uses "BB" and "BA" (should be the smaller, 24-pin connector). BC and BD should be the larger, 32-pin black connector.

[This message has been edited by Darth Fiero (edited 03-07-2007).]

First off, Thanks Darth for the info. I'm not looking for huge gains in anything, just would like the 2.8 to run better. This looks like a quick and easy (W/O EGR) way to do it. One thing I would like clear up is which mounting tray is needed.

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: The 7730 ECM also mounts inside the Fiero using a stock, early 4cyl ECM mounting tray.

or

quote Originally posted by Fierobsessed: Actually it's the 87-88 4 Cyl tray.

I have an 84 in the garage to get a tray from, and a tray from an 88 on the way. Just would like to know which one I need. I don't, as of yet, have a 7730 ECM.

Again thanks for everyone's input The past year has been a crash course in Fieros for me.

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Bob
87 GT 5spd
05 Vibe

quote Originally posted by What about Bob: One thing I would like clear up is which mounting tray is needed. I have an 84 in the garage to get a tray from, and a tray from an 88 on the way. Just would like to know which one I need. I don't, as of yet, have a 7730 ECM.

I was told by the guy I got the ECM tray from that it came out of an earlier car. But I don't know that for sure because I rarely work on 4 cyl Fieros and frankly can't remember what trays/ECMs they used in what years. What I can tell you is the tray you are looking for came with the ECM that had it's connectors coming out it's side, not the end like the stock 2.8 ECM.

-ryan

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: I was told by the guy I got the ECM tray from that it came out of an earlier car. But I don't know that for sure because I rarely work on 4 cyl Fieros and frankly can't remember what trays/ECMs they used in what years. What I can tell you is the tray you are looking for came with the ECM that had it's connectors coming out it's side, not the end like the stock 2.8 ECM. -ryan

I just checked my 84 and the ECM connectors are on the bottom, so it looks like I'll be using the one I'm getting from an 88.

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Bob
87 GT 5spd
05 Vibe

I think I'll just bend up some aluminum and make one. No problem with that I hope.

Just got my ECM mount from an 88 coupe (Thanks Madess!) and it matches the first picture on Page 1. The ECM fastens to the top and bottom of the mount, with connectors on the side. It almost makes sense that the 87-88 2.5L with DIS would have this style mount.

Ryan, now I’m wondering, is there a preferred 7730 to use for my totally stock 87 GT 5 speed? One from a manual trans Beretta or manual trans Camerobird?. Or doesn’t the transmission (or even engine) of the donor car matter?

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Bob
87 GT 5spd
05 Vibe

Ok Guy's yan has done this swap for me and I'm getting ready to take kilrblugt on it's first run to Florida. We are going on a 2 week run with the car and will give all updates on the install and how it runs and mpg.

Thanks again Ryan!!

[This message has been edited by Capitol City Fiero (edited 03-13-2007).]

quote Originally posted by What about Bob: Ryan, now I’m wondering, is there a preferred 7730 to use for my totally stock 87 GT 5 speed? One from a manual trans Beretta or manual trans Camerobird?. Or doesn’t the transmission (or even engine) of the donor car matter?

If you get the chip out of this ECM reprogrammed, it doesn't matter if the car it came out of had a manual or auto trans. And you will need to have it reprogrammed if you get the ECM out of a DIS-equipped car like a Beretta or a Camaro/Firebird that had the VATS (pass-key) option.

quote Originally posted by Capitol City Fiero: Ok Guy's yan has done this swap for me and I'm getting ready to take kilrblugt on it's first run to Florida. We are going on a 2 week run with the car and will give all updates on the install and how it runs and mpg. Thanks again Ryan!!

No problem. You know my number if you have any problems. Have a fun trip and take some pics!

-ryan

Sending out my chip to you today, also ran across another ECM at the yard and snatched the chip for someone out there that might be looking for one. any progress on the EGR adapter plate. I noted to just have it deleted until we come up with an adapter.
Thanks

quote Originally posted by 87SEV6Reborn05: Sending out my chip to you today, also ran across another ECM at the yard and snatched the chip for someone out there that might be looking for one. any progress on the EGR adapter plate. I noted to just have it deleted until we come up with an adapter. Thanks

I don't have any adapter plates right now and don't have the resources to get one made. If someone like ohio86se could get a mock-up model made and send it to me, I could check fitment on the Fiero 2.8 crossover pipe and digital EGR valves I have here to see if it would work. But I am very busy in the shop right now so I don't really have time to devote to the EGR adapter plate project at the moment other than what I said I could do above.

-ryan