I started workin on this. I have some really good/easy solutions to a few of the issues. Just blew the isuzu in my 3800sc so its a 2-3 day setback.











This allows to go back to stock if there are any issues. I've also come up with a really neat/cheap/simple egr solution.

[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 05-14-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: I started workin on this. I have some really good/easy solutions to a few of the issues. Just blew the isuzu in my 3800sc so its a 2-3 day setback. This allows to go back to stock if there are any issues. I've also come up with a really neat/cheap/simple egr solution.

Looks interesting so far... tell us more.

------------------
Vin

Fieros at Carlisle 2007
Mid Atlantic Fiero Owners Association
86 SE 2M6 Deceased
86 SE 2M4 Burned
87 GT Black
87 GT Med. Red over Silver

quote Originally posted by fiero87: Does anyone know if tunerpro or tunercat has the software to program factory parts (purge or egr) to control aftermarket accessories? I know in my Honda I have a modified ecu and I have the purge outputs triggering my water injection. Just thinking maybe i could use them to trigger n20. Thanks

I don't have an answer to your question but I like the idea. Maybe someone can answer?

Ryan, I have full access to a CNC machine mill, and would love to get the design for the plate from you. If anyone has drawn it up in CAD already, it would help tremendously. I may be able to have these milled and ready to roll in a few weeks if I can get the design from you.

quote Originally posted by Synthesis: Ryan, I have full access to a CNC machine mill, and would love to get the design for the plate from you. If anyone has drawn it up in CAD already, it would help tremendously. I may be able to have these milled and ready to roll in a few weeks if I can get the design from you.

I think Ohio86se was working on a drawing, check around page 3 or 4.

------------------
Vin

Fieros at Carlisle 2007
Mid Atlantic Fiero Owners Association
86 SE 2M6 Deceased
86 SE 2M4 Burned
87 GT Black
87 GT Med. Red over Silver

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: I started workin on this. I have some really good/easy solutions to a few of the issues. Just blew the isuzu in my 3800sc so its a 2-3 day setback. This allows to go back to stock if there are any issues. I've also come up with a really neat/cheap/simple egr solution.

BUMP. Curious what your EGR solution is? Nice harness there, I think that is the way to go, that way its a quick swap back if you really need to for some reason.

I'm going to cut the old fitting off the 3.4L and use the digital EGR from that same car.

Couple of questions here.
1. Has anyone been able to make the egr adapter from the drawing?
2. Will this ECM "switch on" a heated O2 sensor?
3 What exactly is needed for the conversion to the digital evap and cruise control?

thanks

quote Originally posted by rjblaze: Couple of questions here. 1. Has anyone been able to make the egr adapter from the drawing? 2. Will this ECM "switch on" a heated O2 sensor? 3 What exactly is needed for the conversion to the digital evap and cruise control? thanks

1) Can't answer that one because I had a friend make an EGR adapter using a drawing I put togther on paper.

2) Heated O2 sensors don't need to be "switched on" by the ECM. The heating element in the O2 sensor gets it's power directly from the IGNITION 1 electrical circuit (same circuit that powers the injectors, egr valve, etc).

3) The only item needed for the conversion to computer controlled evap is an evap purge solenoid. This solenoid should be installed in the larger vacuum line that goes from the evap canister to the engine. The electronic cruise control gets installed in a stand-alone capacity; the only thing it needs to see from the ECM is a 4000ppm vehicle speed signal (the 7730 ECM has an output for this).

-ryan

Thanks ryan....I will be looking for your help when I finally get the ecm swapped in my '86

Ryan, when installing the digital cruise, should the 4000ppm input for the cruise module be connected to the PCM speedo output (which is also the input to the conversion circuit) or should it be connected to the output of the conversion circuit (input to the speedo), or does it matter? Also, is the purpose of the conversion circuit to boost the voltage peaks of the PCM speedo out signal?
Thanks,
Dave.

------------------
Daviero - 88 N* GT

quote Originally posted by Daviero: Ryan, when installing the digital cruise, should the 4000ppm input for the cruise module be connected to the PCM speedo output (which is also the input to the conversion circuit) or should it be connected to the output of the conversion circuit (input to the speedo), or does it matter? Also, is the purpose of the conversion circuit to boost the voltage peaks of the PCM speedo out signal? Thanks, Dave.

Directly to the ECM/PCM.

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: Got a spreadsheet put together for the wiring conversion. It can be viewed/downloaded here: http://www.gmtuners.com/files/Fiero2.8_to_7730.pdf I have wiring diagrams and pinouts for both the Fiero 2.8 ECM's as well as the 90-92 Camaro 3.1 ECM available for download at my website. -ryan

Ryan,

Forgive me if you've answered this, but I did a quick scan of the thread and didn't see the answer. I was looking at your spreadsheet and was wondering what I would need to change for DIS on my 3.4 as far as the pinouts.

Vin

quote Originally posted by FieroVin: Ryan, Forgive me if you've answered this, but I did a quick scan of the thread and didn't see the answer. I was looking at your spreadsheet and was wondering what I would need to change for DIS on my 3.4 as far as the pinouts. Vin

If you are going to be using a Distributorless Ignition System on your engine, then you should wire up the 7730 ECM using diagrams from a 1990-92 Chevy Beretta 3.1 MFI V6 car. You should be able to use some of the information from the spreadsheet I made, but not all of it is going to correctly correlate to the DIS system. In that respect, use the information from the Beretta diagrams instead.

-ryan

Thanks,

Does this look like the right one?

http://www.spudgames.com/bstuff/ecmp1.jpg

http://www.spudgames.com/bstuff/ecmp2.jpg

hello evryone, I have a question. Could I use the 1992 Syclone PCM and prom on the fiero 2.8L engine. Wire it up accordingly and use the correct sensors and possibly have some one make a chip that will work with a Vortech supercharger??? Let me know if this is possible.

joe

quote Originally posted by Team Race-Tech: hello evryone, I have a question. Could I use the 1992 Syclone PCM and prom on the fiero 2.8L engine. Wire it up accordingly and use the correct sensors and possibly have some one make a chip that will work with a Vortech supercharger??? Let me know if this is possible. joe

Very possible. I have a 7749 ECM wired up to my Duke. Not so much for boost on the 4cyl. I'm trying to keep the ECMs common between the Fiero and my other boosted car. Just wire it up, install a 2-bar MAP sensor and start tuning!

DarthFiero,

How much to fly you to Mass to convert to this ECM, add DIS (I have a 3400 system in a box in the basement) and tune my car. I'm running an 87 computer with an Audi 5000 turbo from the 80's and an 80's Buick module to adjust timing based on the knock sensor on a 3.1 stroker.

quote Originally posted by FieroVin: Thanks, Does this look like the right one? http://www.spudgames.com/bstuff/ecmp1.jpg http://www.spudgames.com/bstuff/ecmp2.jpg

No, those look like the diagrams for a Quad-4. I should have what you need on my website at www.gmtuners.com

quote Originally posted by Team Race-Tech: hello evryone, I have a question. Could I use the 1992 Syclone PCM and prom on the fiero 2.8L engine. Wire it up accordingly and use the correct sensors and possibly have some one make a chip that will work with a Vortech supercharger??? Let me know if this is possible. joe

Joe, that is exactly the computer and chip program I would use if I were to build a boosted 2.8 V6 with a distributor. It would require some custom tuning tho.

quote Originally posted by lou_dias: DarthFiero, How much to fly you to Mass to convert to this ECM, add DIS (I have a 3400 system in a box in the basement) and tune my car. I'm running an 87 computer with an Audi 5000 turbo from the 80's and an 80's Buick module to adjust timing based on the knock sensor on a 3.1 stroker.

lou, please email me at sp@gmtuners.com so we can discuss this further.

-ryan

Hi Ryan, would you be able to make one for me if I provided the info you needed and also if you were able to source the parts too??

thanks
Joe

quote Originally posted by Team Race-Tech: Hi Ryan, would you be able to make one for me if I provided the info you needed and also if you were able to source the parts too?? thanks Joe

Please email me at sp@gmtuners.com so we can discuss this.

Hey guys, I thought I'd share my attempt at an EGR adapter. Fierofreak00's EGR adapter was the inspiration, the only difference is that I cut down and used the the stand-off from the original 2.8 egr that way they are both cast pieces. My Dad actually did the welding... thanks Dad!



We opened up the 2.8 piece and after cutting down the 3.4 stand-off we set it inside like so.

------------------
Vin

Fieros at Carlisle 2007
Mid Atlantic Fiero Owners Association
86 SE 2M6 Deceased
86 SE 2M4 Burned
87 GT Black
87 GT Med. Red over Silver

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: I started workin on this. I have some really good/easy solutions to a few of the issues. Just blew the isuzu in my 3800sc so its a 2-3 day setback. This allows to go back to stock if there are any issues. I've also come up with a really neat/cheap/simple egr solution.

I am getting ready to do this exact thing - so, I gotta ask: does it fit in the existing area? there is not much room under the center console

I turned mine so the connectors were facing down instead of to the side. There is actually a fair amount of room under that back center section of the console, below the ECM. Enough to allow the converted wiring harness. If you mount it so the wires come out the side as Darth Fiero did, you need to make your leads long enough to reach below the ECM. The side area is kinda tight.

Does the broadcast number of the memcal on the ECM is an important thing to watch or the source car that the ecm came from depending of the application?

Like myself...if I want to use this ECM with my 3400 swap (3400 dressed with all Fiero 2.8 engine parts, head, intake etc) can I use any source car 730 ECM or I need one coming specifically from an 2.8 or 3.1l car or with a specific memcal number?


Edit: I didnt read carefully the middle pages of the entire thread..sorry for this repetitive question.

[This message has been edited by perry rhodan (edited 06-29-2007).]

quote Originally posted by perry rhodan: Does the broadcast number of the memcal on the ECM is an important thing to watch or the source car that the ecm came from depending of the application? Like myself...if I want to use this ECM with my 3400 swap (3400 dressed with all Fiero 2.8 engine parts, head, intake etc) can I use any source car 730 ECM or I need one coming specifically from an 2.8 or 3.1l car or with a specific memcal number? Edit: I didnt read carefully the middle pages of the entire thread..sorry for this repetitive question.

You can use any 7730 in your car regardless if it came from a car that had a 4cyl, V6, or V8. HOWEVER, the only mem-cal that will work is one from a V6; so if you can, get an ECM from a car that had a 2.8 or 3.1 V6; otherwise you might need to buy a new mem-cal from GM to use (they cost about $100).

-ryan

Thanks Ryan.

So if I recapitulate, I have a V6 3400, with all Fiero stuff like head, intake, plenum, distributor, cruise control etc...exactly like a factory Fiero..just the engine block has changed. So here is the thing I'm sure of:

- I need to use, preferably, an ECM that come from a V6 application.

- I will need to purchase a knock sensor that come from the same model/year/engine of the car that came the ECM to put on the engine block

- To help retrofitting my old ECM, I can use the method Jncomutt had used with a 7730 pigtail and an old Fiero ECM connector for the wiring.

- Also to help fixing the ECM in place I can use an 87-88 Fiero L4 ECM holding rack.

Is this all correct?

Now for the more confusing aspect of this "swap" that I'm not really sure:

-For the EGR, can I still use the original Fiero EGR and just have the chip reprogrammed or that involve something else?

-Maybe you will suggest me that I'm better going with the digital EGR for the reliability and better performance from it?

-Can I still use the original cruise control setup of the Fiero without using the this function/module included inside the 7730 ECM ?

-Ryan, are you able to reprogram my chip for my application and at what price (you can reply by PM for this one )

Do I miss somethig else before I go ahead in this?

Many Thanks


PS: in which type of ECM is the 7730? a C3 or newer P4 ?

[This message has been edited by perry rhodan (edited 06-30-2007).]

Hey Perry, I will answer your questions below...

quote Originally posted by perry rhodan: So if I recapitulate, I have a V6 3400, with all Fiero stuff like head, intake, plenum, distributor, cruise control etc...exactly like a factory Fiero..just the engine block has changed. So here is the thing I'm sure of: - I need to use, preferably, an ECM that come from a V6 application.

You can use ANY 1227730 ECM. The mem-cal that contains the EPROM chip, knock sensor interface module, and limp-mode fuel backup chips needs to be from a V6 car <-- this is the key component.

quote - I will need to purchase a knock sensor that come from the same model/year/engine of the car that came the ECM to put on the engine block

The knock sensor you ultimately use needs to match the mem-cal you are using in the ECM.

quote - To help retrofitting my old ECM, I can use the method Jncomutt had used with a 7730 pigtail and an old Fiero ECM connector for the wiring.

Yes that is an option.

quote - Also to help fixing the ECM in place I can use an 87-88 Fiero L4 ECM holding rack.

Yes.

quote Now for the more confusing aspect of this "swap" that I'm not really sure: -For the EGR, can I still use the original Fiero EGR and just have the chip reprogrammed or that involve something else?

No, the original vacuum operated Fiero EGR will not work with this swap/chip programming.

quote -Maybe you will suggest me that I'm better going with the digital EGR for the reliability and better performance from it?

Nothing to do with performance, but experience has shown that the failure rate of the digital EGRs is much less than all the components needed to make a stock Fiero EGR system work. Again, the reason why a digital EGR must be used with the 7730 swap is because the 7730 is programmed to only work with the digital EGR (at least with the code masks we are talking about)

quote -Can I still use the original cruise control setup of the Fiero without using the this function/module included inside the 7730 ECM ?

The 7730 has no cruise control internal functions. You can leave the stock Fiero cruise control in-tact and working as-is.

quote -Ryan, are you able to reprogram my chip for my application and at what price (you can reply by PM for this one )

Current pricing I charge for reprogramming your stock mem-cal is $50. Or there is a mem-cal adapter option for $95. For more info, please email me at sp@gmtuners.com

-ryan

quote PS: in which type of ECM is the 7730? a C3 or newer P4 ?

P4

Great! that clarify numerous things. Now everything is more clear.

At the start of my swap project, I was supposed to use an '85 V6 ECM because of the provision to use a knock sensor ( I'm supposed to put a supercharger on my swap in the future). But the ability to use one with the 7730 , the better engine control and the "ease" of this ECM swap, let me no doubt about what I will have to do with the ECM...go for the 7730.

And the fact that the speedo can be recalibrated inside the ECM is a great thing, since my wheel setup will be a little bit larger in diameter , so I will be able to correct my speed reading.

Now I'm waiting for a 1227730 ECM from a 3.1L Corsica .

Now I will also chase a digital EGR and a section of the exhaust pipe to help me make an "adaptor" to fit on my exhaust. For the EGR, do I need one specific model or just looking for V6 digital EGR that is used with any 7730 ECM equipped car?

Do you have a shematic of the vacuum line before and after? I think a "factory" like shematic exist, but if you can publish one with the modification needed for the vacuum line, it will be nice.

Oh! and the fact that I will use a 5spd manual tranny will not cause any problem with this ECM swap? (since I saw mainly discussion for automatic transmission in this thread)

I will contact you by email in the next days to know other details.

Thanks

Yan

[This message has been edited by perry rhodan (edited 07-01-2007).]

i second the vacuum details, I baught my car without an engine so vacuum line data/map would help tremendously!

I sent you an email LZeppelin513 ...with two vaccum diagram.

Hey man thanks a lot, whose will deffinetly come in usefull! plus fof you!

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: You can use ANY 1227730 ECM. The mem-cal that contains the EPROM chip, knock sensor interface module, and limp-mode fuel backup chips needs to be from a V6 car <-- this is the key component.

Is this a must because the knock module in the chip for the V6 is different from that found in a 4 or 8 cylinder? or is that a general statement for someone who does not have the ability to reprogram the Epromm? I've removed the prom from the calpak and installed a socket for the chip, if the ESC data has to be addressed to I have a correction to make considering I don't know what size engine my chip is from.

I could supply those EGR adapter plates out of my shop. In addition to becoming a Fiero "addict" I do CNC machining for a number of industries, including custom motorcycle builders.

From what I've seen on this thread, looks like they could be made easily.

If anyone would like to pm me the drawings, files, sketches they have, I'll figure a price and post it here. I can either make them and supply them, or supply them through someone else who'd like to handle ordering and shipping.

Marc in sunny Titusville, FL
85 Sport w/V6 transplant
85 GT just newly on the road
84 SE loaded, son's car

[This message has been edited by Gwain (edited 07-02-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: Is this a must because the knock module in the chip for the V6 is different from that found in a 4 or 8 cylinder? or is that a general statement for someone who does not have the ability to reprogram the Epromm? I've removed the prom from the calpak and installed a socket for the chip, if the ESC data has to be addressed to I have a correction to make considering I don't know what size engine my chip is from.

It's not just the knock module on the mem-cal, it's the backup fuel chips which are the key. You cannot use 4 or 8 cyl limp-mode/backup fuel chips (on the mem-cal) with a 6 cyl engine. You must use a V6 mem-cal with it's V6 limp-mode/backup fuel chips.

Concerning vacuum lines, if you are asking about what to do about the Factory Fiero EGR vacuum system once you install the Digital EGR valve, all the Fiero stuff gets removed and ports for it plugged. That's it. The EVAP system has been addressed earlier in this thread.

Thanks Ryan. You've got an email from me. Just pass over the question you alreary answered here (like the EGR/Vacuum related question).

I will have to print all this thread and read it very carefully.

[This message has been edited by perry rhodan (edited 07-02-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Gwain: I could supply those EGR adapter plates out of my shop. In addition to becoming a Fiero "addict" I do CNC machining for a number of industries, including custom motorcycle builders. From what I've seen on this thread, looks like they could be made easily. If anyone would like to pm me the drawings, files, sketches they have, I'll figure a price and post it here. I can either make them and supply them, or supply them through someone else who'd like to handle ordering and shipping. Marc in sunny Titusville, FL 85 Sport w/V6 transplant 85 GT just newly on the road 84 SE loaded, son's car

Any update on Marc's offer and request?

Thanks for all the guys that took time to reply to my questions.

I finally manage to pick:

1227730 ECM from an 1989 Cavalier Z24
Digital EGR from an 1993 3.1 MPFI Cutlass Sierra Supreme with some of the wires and the connector
EGR adaptor from an 1995 3.4 Firebird (to be modified to fit the Fiero exaust like Fierovin have done)
ECM pigtail to do the adaptor harness (like Jncomutt)
1988 Fiero 2M4 ECM plastic support

Just FYI, to help other to not make the same mistake I made with the EGR...take only the 3 coils EGR valve. Some V6 car equipped with the 7730 ECM, generally the year comprised between 1988 and 1990, have a vacuum controlled/ ECM read EGR valve. They have near the same look as the vaccum EGR on the Fiero, with a wiring harness on it. Its not the good one.

I'm still missing some parts for my engine conversion, so this "ECM swap" will not be functionnal until next summer I think. But I'm eager to see it running without the miss associated with the old Fiero ECM.

If everything works I will have to give away my 1985 V6 Fiero ECM, and the ESC module that was previously purchased to do some of the function that the 7730 will now take care.

will the stock $88 memcal work with a 3.4 swap? or will it no matter what need tweaking to make it work decently?

the more I am thinking about this I believe this upgrade really needs to be a part of my 3.4 +4t60 upgrade that is sitting in the garage.