quote Originally posted by fieroluv: The only thing about this thread that bothers me, is why is it so important for people to have to prove everything? I have a 450 HP Fiero (Not true just making a point). That statement alone will generate at least 25 replies with people saying prove it and just being down right mean until said person supplies the proof. I don't understand the point. Why do you care so much that you have to stoop to belittling a person for making a claim? Who cares if it's true or not? That right there shows your immaturity and your age. Young immature people just can't stand to be outdone. It eats them up inside until they explode and start posting all this crap. We have a person at the place where I work who according to him has done everything, and can't be outdone on anything. He is the all knowing on every topic known to man. He is a self proclaimed deity of information. We don't call him out on it. We could care less, we pretty much just roll our eyes and ignore his bs. sorry, just my observation and .02

Most people are Haters, that's just life.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: What I dont understand is there is 30+ people now that have neg'ed me and 3-4 people posting in this thread, I am a bit confused as to whats going on here. If you want me banned, start a thread about me and present evidence as to why I should be banned. I wont even post in it if that would make you feel better.

I have not rated you negative for your attitude in this thread. I may not agree with your position or how you express yourself on that position, but when I give a negative it is usually for a person who disrupts numerous threads by flaming people. One thread where emotions run a little high is not a reason to neg someone. But that is just me, Others may take things a little more personal. BTW ~ How are you sure all the ratings you received are negative??

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: What I dont understand is there is 30+ people now that have neg'ed me and 3-4 people posting in this thread, I am a bit confused as to whats going on here. If you want me banned, start a thread about me and present evidence as to why I should be banned. I wont even post in it if that would make you feel better. ....

you dont have to post to give out neg's. you can just read the posts, and say "hey - this guy is being a jerk - heres a big fat neg for ya", without typing a single thing. go back, and look at the "views" column. 2400+ views. most people on the forum dont post - just view.

and, the stuff you "highlighted" in bold is exactly the confrontational attitude which is spawning your negatives. this is not a courthouse. we have no need to "present evidence". no one has a need to prove anything to you. there is another forum, which is vigorously fact checked. go there, and see how enjoyable that is. 5 grumbly people. no doubt they know exactly what they be talking about.

IMO I don't think you deserve a neg. But I can't control what other people do. I didn't neg you either. I have only handed out one neg since being on the forum and that person was just being blatantly rude. But all that is irrelevant. I believe that you should only be neg'd if you are trolling or just plain being belligerent.

edit: sorry I was wrong just checked my ratings and I've handed out two. They both definitely deserved it though.

[This message has been edited by fieroluv (edited 10-01-2007).]

Does PFF has a feature to block selected users posts in a thread? That way this one (and many others) could be more usefull.

Chuck; Could you ignore the noise and keep on your explanation? I know some are interested and may read between the trolls.

[This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 10-01-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Alex4mula: Does PFF has a feature to block selected users posts in a thread? That way this one (and many others) could be more usefull. :rooleyes: Chuck; Could you ignore the noise and keep on your explanation? I know some are interested and may read between the trolls.

I agree.

Cliff, if you're reading this thread, there's a great plugin for Firefox that allows you to selectively ignore user's posts in a forum. That would come in very handy in this thread. If you got rid of darkhorizon, this would probably still be a 1 page thread.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: you dont have to post to give out neg's. you can just read the posts, and say "hey - this guy is being a jerk - heres a big fat neg for ya", without typing a single thing. go back, and look at the "views" column. 2400+ views. most people on the forum dont post - just view. and, the stuff you "highlighted" in bold is exactly the confrontational attitude which is spawning your negatives. this is not a courthouse. we have no need to "present evidence". no one has a need to prove anything to you. there is another forum, which is vigorously fact checked. go there, and see how enjoyable that is. 5 grumbly people. no doubt they know exactly what they be talking about.

I know, I posted that to call out all these people that think they know whats going on here, and explain why. Its the stupid system thats bothering me. 95% of my 2800 posts are in 3800 swap threads, offering people advice based on my experience.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I know, I posted that to call out all these people that think they know whats going on here, and explain why. Its the stupid system thats bothering me. 95% of my 2800 posts are in 3800 swap threads, offering people advice based on my experience.

yup. I avoided this thread because it contains no actual info. right from the get-go it was a teaser. yay, some guy feeling out his car. time slips which showed ZERO info. might be helpful for his own purposes - but, on their own on a webpage? shows nothing. and - was their not supposed to be a dyno run in here somewhere? but, whatever - doesnt much matter. I know it is fast. faster than most. why not you two meet on a 1/4. not to far away from each other. I would really love to see these differences settled the right way. instead of a bitchfest. tho, the bitchfests are fun for those of us killing time.....

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: yup. I avoided this thread because it contains no actual info. right from the get-go it was a teaser. yay, some guy feeling out his car. time slips which showed ZERO info. might be helpful for his own purposes - but, on their own on a webpage? shows nothing. and - was their not supposed to be a dyno run in here somewhere? but, whatever - doesnt much matter. I know it is fast. faster than most. why not you two meet on a 1/4. not to far away from each other. I would really love to see these differences settled the right way. instead of a bitchfest. tho, the bitchfests are fun for those of us killing time.....

and yet your the first person to actually come out and say this, why noone understood that thats all i was ever trying to say confuses me also. I guess I need to work on my communication skills a bit more. I usually have too much going on in my head to actually make sure everyone knows what I am trying to say. I usually have the skill to say one thing they dont like, then they regard ever other word I say as "bla bla bla bla your retarded".


Edit,

If he wants to race me, I am all for it, I will put my turbo on next week if he would be ready.

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 10-01-2007).]

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I know, I posted that to call out all these people that think they know whats going on here, and explain why. Its the stupid system thats bothering me. 95% of my 2800 posts are in 3800 swap threads, offering people advice based on my experience.

Dark, to give you a little insight. I haven't given you a neg, but I have noticed a trait of you. You have your way of doing things, and thats fine, but not everyone likes the same cup of tea. One thing in particular is that you're so adamant on making people go auto instead of manual. In fact I recently read a thread where you would borderline insult people who want to have a manual trans behind their SC3800. I'm sure you're knowledge is appreciated sometimes you just seam over zealous on your ideals.

I am here as my name was spotted above as I got a ride and I did not.

I have to agree with random its all about the presentation of your argument. Like the dyno slip above. you said that you posted it but you know that is no new and old to his car. Then you go into argue mode again. I think that if you cleaned up what you are asking for then you will be ok. People react to what they read and you need to remember that there is no tone on what you type but the peoples perception on what you type. I view it as sombody banging away with frustration and anger and I am sure that other people see it the same way. Just chill a little and things will go back to right for you.

quote Originally posted by Fiero Thomas: I was there when HP was discussed.

Okay great, we're getting somewhere.

The number 780 left who's mouth? Chuck? Someone else? Did you verify that info with Chuck before posting it on the internet?

If you just overheard someone say something, I'd have to say this whole thread/flame war is your fault. Check your facts before posting them. I recall CBS got in trouble for the same thing.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Okay great, we're getting somewhere. The number 780 left who's mouth? Chuck? Someone else? Did you verify that info with Chuck before posting it on the internet? If you just overheard someone say something, I'd have to say this whole thread/flame war is your fault. Check your facts before posting them. I recall CBS got in trouble for the same thing.

Also, we're going to require video tape of the alleged conversation as well as a voice print analysis to make sure it was actually Chuck who make the comment.

DNA samples from all parties, of course, will be required as well.

quote Originally posted by RandomTask: Dark, to give you a little insight. I haven't given you a neg, but I have noticed a trait of you. You have your way of doing things, and thats fine, but not everyone likes the same cup of tea. One thing in particular is that you're so adamant on making people go auto instead of manual. In fact I recently read a thread where you would borderline insult people who want to have a manual trans behind their SC3800. I'm sure you're knowledge is appreciated sometimes you just seam over zealous on your ideals.

Yea, well I dont understand any valid reason to have a manual behind any motor that makes power, so I come off a bit offensive to try to get that reason out of people, I talked with my friend about this last night, as he is that person I usually argue with. He has killed 4 transmissions in a year, and yet he still wants another one.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Yea, well I dont understand any valid reason to have a manual behind any motor that makes power, so I come off a bit offensive to try to get that reason out of people, I talked with my friend about this last night, as he is that person I usually argue with. He has killed 4 transmissions in a year, and yet he still wants another one.

in racing where curves are invloved - you dont want the car shifting gears in a curve.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Also, we're going to require video tape of the alleged conversation as well as a voice print analysis to make sure it was actually Chuck who make the comment. DNA samples from all parties, of course, will be required as well.

No, just knowing who said it is all I need.

Then I can assign a "california kid" title to motortv, or a "CBS" title to fiero thomas.... and recalibrate my BS meter to what they say accordingly.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: No, just knowing who said it is all I need. Then I can assign a "california kid" title to motortv, or a "CBS" title to fiero thomas.... and recalibrate my BS meter to what they say accordingly.

That'll work for you, but I'm sure darkhorizon or someone else will have other requirements.
Maybe we should get a list of the proof each person requires when making any comments about their car, and then they can have conversation authentication documents notorized whenever they open their mouth.

Applying this same burden of proof to 3800 threads should prove enlightening.

Does this stuff keep you guys up at night? Are you losing sleep over this? Do you just sit there and ponder "Man, he said 780hp. . . but I think he only has 410. . . " You know the best thing to do? STFU and let them trip themselves. If he claims to have 780hp and he can only run 12.6 1/4's, then you'll know one of two things. Either A.) Lied about the HP, or B.) Can't drive worth a **** . Both make him look bad. But if you sit and argue with them, you'll just make yourself look bad. Never argue with an idiot. . .they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Wow. When I saw the beginning of this thread I was ready to learn something about dialing in and tuning a car. So do you think a new thread could be started with this intent and this thread be moved to the can where the bickering can continue unimpeaded?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: . I usually have the skill to say one thing they dont like, then they regard ever other word I say as "bla bla bla bla your retarded".

My problem with you is not so much what you say here on PFF but the way you run back to RFT and brag how you called someone out to gain the praise of Shaun for doing it. You also say things there that you won’t say here. like calling Chuck motorTVakimoto. To me that makes you look very two-faced saying different things to different people.. And I've gotten a few -'s for what I have said in this thread but I really don't care becuase that's what happens when you give others a hard time, whether you are right or not.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: That'll work for you, but I'm sure darkhorizon or someone else will have other requirements. Maybe we should get a list of the proof each person requires when making any comments about their car, and then they can have conversation authentication documents notorized whenever they open their mouth. Applying this same burden of proof to 3800 threads should prove enlightening.

I WELCOME argument, If I say something and someone else doesnt agree with and can explain why he doesnt agree, i am a smarter person for it, I can see 2 different views of something. Now in response to what pytharian said about the manual transmission in curves, its very easy to fix that problem by programming the PCM to shift when you want it to. I have made a file that changes the shift settings at the push of a button, and the trans will not upshift unless it is going fast enough to upshift. My trans wills stay in second gear untill i go over 60mph, there is never downshifting.

I treat every post I make with the "burden of proof" available if I am asked, why should I expect people to blindly believe what I have said? You have to remember I am getting bashed simply for asking for proof, not bashing the proof given.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I WELCOME argument, If I say something and someone else doesnt agree with and can explain why he doesnt agree, i am a smarter person for it, I can see 2 different views of something.

No you can't. Chuck has been explaining his methods, and all you can do is say he doesn't need to dial anything in, nothing needs to be setup and he should just run his car wide open to satisfy your curiosity.

You have no tolerance for anyone who doesn't do things the way YOU think they should.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 10-01-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: No you can't. Chuck has been explaining his methods, and all you can do is say he doesn't need to dial anything in, nothing needs to be setup and he should just run his car wide open to satisfy your curiosity. You have no tolerance for anyone who doesn't do things the way YOU think they should.

I would appreciate you quoting me where i said that.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I WELCOME argument, If I say something and someone else doesnt agree with and can explain why he doesnt agree, i am a smarter person for it, I can see 2 different views of something. Now in response to what pytharian said about the manual transmission in curves, its very easy to fix that problem by programming the PCM to shift when you want it to. I have made a file that changes the shift settings at the push of a button, and the trans will not upshift unless it is going fast enough to upshift. My trans wills stay in second gear untill i go over 60mph, there is never downshifting. I treat every post I make with the "burden of proof" available if I am asked, why should I expect people to blindly believe what I have said? You have to remember I am getting bashed simply for asking for proof, not bashing the proof given.

This should really be in a separate thread as I really hate hijacking (not that this hasn't already occurred anyway). But I would like to comment on this as it confused me a little. I agree that you don't want your car shifting in curves, which is why I have a manual trans. But if I'm reading this right I really don't want my car shifting at 60 all the time either. Only during aggressive driving. I like to have complete control over my shifting I don't want a computer deciding when a good time to shift would be.

I will never ever set foot on a drag strip. I will also never ever drag race on the street. So now that we know I'm not going to be doing any hard launches I think my trans will hold up just fine.

I don't know maybe I misinterpreted your post altogether.

[This message has been edited by fieroluv (edited 10-01-2007).]

12.7 @ 100 means you are lifting like a sonovabitch. . . keep it up!

and why are you questioning this man, Shaun over at RFT is claiming 800whp out of a 2.8 yet he tries to call out everyone else? Heres how you call someone out. Shaun, if can read this, I will bet you my Whipple charged 3800 that you do not have an 800whp chevy 2.8 in the back of your fiero. No way - no how. Post up a dyno vid or a track vid of you deep into the 10's if not the 9's.

[This message has been edited by RandomTask (edited 10-01-2007).]

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I would appreciate you quoting me where i said that.

Here's a few to get you started.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: why even go to the track and waste your time if your not even going to run the car?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: How can you compare wasting the time and effort to go to a track to see how your car runs from the 1/16 mile to the 1/8 mile? last time I checked you didnt need a track to see how your car preforms at wide open throttle.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: If I had 1/20 the money this guy has into his car, I would easily be running a real 400whp, and easily hitting 11's consistently, with no "shakedown runs".

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: what is there to setup? if he can get into gears 1-3 to get an 1/8 mile run, why is shifting into 4'th going to hurt anything?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: What is this trying to prove? That you have more time and money than we do that you can just go to the track and just screw around and not get a time slip that represents your fastest run? I would of just kept this whole timeslip business to myself If I was him, its just confusing and really dumb to try to post these then explain it?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: why the hell would I listen to you about anything? I know wheelhop is a problem, but you were not even coming close to having a wheel hop problem with a 2.0 60'. I know for a fact it was the track conditions that caused what I thought to be wheel hop, because it was only 1 run that it happened. I simply said that I got my fastest run wheel hopping and thats it. The fact you think your a "better racer" than me for going to the track and "taking it easy" then you are wrong. Just because I am young, does not mean I dont know anything.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I dont care for advice, I never asked for it

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: if you ran 12.5 before, then why are you testing anything?

But I must say, I really like these two appearing so close to each other. If you're wondering why you're getting a red bar, you might want to pay attention. You seem to have a gift for self delusion.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I have not once said anything offensive.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: and for the retarded people ...

How about putting on a different record. The one you're on appears to be broken.

Ok this is my last post on this subject as this has gotton way out of hand and becoming pointless now. I stated above that the HP number of 780 was discussed with the cars owner there for I am not working for CBS Funny comment by the way. The key word is DISCUSSED. He has one fast bitchen car that I think we all would want but if he came back with a sheet that said more HP or a bit less you still would question him and bash on him. lets all just agree to disagree on this and move on with our lives. This is not my fault as stated above it was discussed and I did not start this thread. This thread had nothing to do with HP at all. Thats what it was turned into unfortainatly.

You dont want my DNA as it is tanated with Kidney disorder and I have sanded off my finger prints off so they will not help as well.

i love when people just CANT READ what is right there in front of them,,,
BLA BLA BLA.......some times i just feel like.........

------------------
that blows up real good

quote Originally posted by Fiero Thomas: Ok this is my last post on this subject as this has gotton way out of hand and becoming pointless now. I stated above that the HP number of 780 was discussed with the cars owner there for I am not working for CBS Funny comment by the way. The key word is DISCUSSED. He has one fast bitchen car that I think we all would want but if he came back with a sheet that said more HP or a bit less you still would question him and bash on him. lets all just agree to disagree on this and move on with our lives. This is not my fault as stated above it was discussed and I did not start this thread.

Thanks, that's all I wanted to hear. I didn't want to make this a personal thing, so for what it's worth, I'm sorry for the stupid comments.

this whole mess was caused by Chuck's HP/ego inflation. Now I'll know to take what he says with a grain of salt.

So now that that's out of the way, I'm done... back to your regularly scheduled poo flinging?

What a stupid thread. Lock it up, I'm sure I'm not the only one sick and tired of the V8Archie gang and their BS.

quote Originally posted by Fiero Thomas: Ok this is my last post on this subject as this has gotton way out of hand and becoming pointless now. I stated above that the HP number of 780 was discussed with the cars owner there for I am not working for CBS Funny comment by the way. The key word is DISCUSSED. He has one fast bitchen car that I think we all would want but if he came back with a sheet that said more HP or a bit less you still would question him and bash on him. lets all just agree to disagree on this and move on with our lives. This is not my fault as stated above it was discussed and I did not start this thread. This thread had nothing to do with HP at all. Thats what it was turned into unfortainatly. You dont want my DNA as it is tanated with Kidney disorder and I have sanded off my finger prints off so they will not help as well.

You know, I'd like to apologize to you for the group here (including the RFT trolls). A nice young man comes to a show & enjoys the show. He talks to & BS's with a bunch of the fellas at the show & enjoys himself enough that he wants to share the experience with others. But because he attends & enjoys an "Archie" show anything he says or reports is treated with the hate that the RFT trolls bring to the table.

It's a shame that you had to get dragged into the hateful harassment that I put up with everyday.

Last year, my open house was subject to the RFT hate that come from people like Shaunbag & his nut-swingers. That hate contunues to this day with the same lies and hate that Shaunbag was spilling out 13 months ago.

I wouldn't blame you if you stated that you're never going to a show again & if you ever do go to a show again I wouldn't blame you if you never told anyone that you were there or what you might have seen or said/heard.

We started having my open house on the same weekend as the FieroRama so that NIFE would have more stuff for people that came from out of town to do. Kinda like 2 shows for the price of one & a nice full weekend for Fiero enthusiasts. But because of the RFT haters it's turned into another year h3ll to live thru. To be honest with you right now I'm inclined to not have another Open House.

These people don't have anything of their own to contribute, they don't support or attend the shows with their cars. They just pour out more hate.

Everybody knows that if you have something good to say about me or any of my customers, you're gonna get jumped on & harassed by these haters.

So I appreciate you coming down for the FieroRama weekend & I'm sorry that you enjoyed your visit to my Open House enough to post about it.

Archie

You should keep having the shows, Archie - just don't post about them anymore. If someone wants to have a good time at the show, then they'll have to show up in person.
Sad that it's pretty much come to that.

after realizeing that 75% of the posters here dont get it... i will chime in

I'm no racer... I can cut consistent fast laps on a real road course but have no
clue how to race.
I can run good times consistently at the strip, change one thing and go back at
it. I still have no clue how to race
i do know how much time goes into testing... I've crewed for some very
successful teams and was in awe as to the amount of slow time they spent on
the track or strip.

How many ppl have seen a car with the fastest trap speed lose a drag race ?
I have.. lots of times. Getting there first, consistently and knowing why is
what wins.

What ever MotorTv's goals are.. he seem to me to be heading there in an
organized documented fashion. I gave up looking for an answer to the inter
cooler question (type, size and location) so maybe some one can pm me
or point me in the right direction.

ppl... this isnt about being king of the hill or mine is bigger than yours...
its about one mans progress to achieve a goal and the steps he is taking
to get there. Asking us to think a little is just that much more interesting

------------------



87 Fiero GT 5sp with Vortec L35 4300 Turbocharged V6
Bully Stage 2 clutch
Syclone intake manifold and engine management with Moates adapter and chip burner
Air/water intercooler and Devil's Own progressive water/alky injection
50lb injectors, 3 bar map sensor, Walboro fuel pump and Jabasco Intercooler pump
LM1 wideband on custom manifolds and 3" stainless exhaust system
T31/T04B S4 turbo with a Super T61 in the box
S10 caliper conversion.
Murphy's Constant Matter will be damaged in direct proportion to its value
Murphy's Law of Thermodynamics Things get worse under pressure.
Arthur C. Clarke "Any significantly advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"

quote What ever MotorTv's goals are.. he seem to me to be heading there in an organized documented fashion

These results are years old, and nothing better has been achieved in years...

The fact is he is still slower than ever turbo V6 out there, in trap and ET.... If he wants to argue against that, he is bringing the wrong proof.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: These results are years old, and nothing better has been achieved in years... The fact is he is still slower than ever turbo V6 out there, in trap and ET.... If he wants to argue against that, he is bringing the wrong proof.

What??? "ever turbo V6"??? Do you even know what you are talking about?? He ran high 12's without even trying and there are at least four "turbo V6's" on the 1/4 mile list slower than 12 seconds. Maybe you should go back a re-read the facts before making comments that make no sense.

quote Originally posted by Oreif: What??? "ever turbo V6"??? Do you even know what you are talking about?? He ran high 12's without even trying and there are at least four "turbo V6's" on the 1/4 mile list slower than 12 seconds. Maybe you should go back a re-read the facts before making comments that make no sense.

calm down... I made that post in a bit of a hurry I suppose.

Every one of the 3800 turbo setups are in low 12's even the slowest one I know of, darth fieros tank of a turbo setup is much faster with a 60e trans.