quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Every one of the 3800 turbo setups are in low 12's even the slowest one I know of, darth fieros tank of a turbo setup is much faster with a 60e trans.

Yes Darth pulled a great time when he ran down the strip.
The thing is Darth opened it up and went down the entire 1/4 mile and got a 12.2.
Chuck launched easily, opened the car up for a gear or so and then coasted down the last 1/8 mile and still ran a 12.7.

Still having a problem with times? Look at Darth's 1/8 mph which is 88.72 mph, Chuck pulled a 91.35 mph and he wasn't even trying for lowest E.T or highest MPH. The point is you have no clue what the car can do, You are just "assuming" it slow without even reading and understanding the data.

Here is Chuck's original quote:

quote Originally posted by MotorTV: They are not et runs.. top speed is to just to not hold up the other people waiting to run... I pretty much kept coasting for the last half of the run... Chuck

I am not comparing the 1/4 mile times... or even 1/8 mile times..

The 1/8 mile traps are the only thing anyone says is "true to the ability of the car" so comparing it to the "slow" turbo 3800 setup running 2MPH slower, is just showing how irrelevant it is.

Ahh and I forgot about matts car here is his slip from when he raced me. this is a turbo 3.4 V6, with a getrag.

60ft - 1.90
1/8 - 7.74
1/8 mph - 96.38
1/4 - 11.92
1/4 mph - 118.07

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I am not comparing the 1/4 mile times... or even 1/8 mile times..

That's the point! You can't compare Chuck's car with any other because you do not have anything to base it on except your own opinion.
You keep posting times for other cars but you do not have any full out times for Chuck's car. Making statements that are not based on any real data or facts like "his car is slower than any 3800 turbo" is just an uneducated guess on your part.

Matt and Darth have done full runs and have put down impressive times. Chuck hasn't done a full run yet, so we will have to wait until he does before anyone can compare his with other cars that have done full runs.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I am not comparing the 1/4 mile times... or even 1/8 mile times.. The 1/8 mile traps are the only thing anyone says is "true to the ability of the car" so comparing it to the "slow" turbo 3800 setup running 2MPH slower, is just showing how irrelevant it is. Ahh and I forgot about matts car here is his slip from when he raced me. this is a turbo 3.4 V6, with a getrag. 60ft - 1.90 1/8 - 7.74 1/8 mph - 96.38 1/4 - 11.92 1/4 mph - 118.07

And you expect us to just take your word that the times you typed up here are real? Considering the endless cries of that would happen if a V8 owner did that - either post a photograph or scan of the actual slip or STFU.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: And you expect us to just take your word that the times you typed up here are real? Considering the endless cries of that would happen if a V8 owner did that - either post a photograph or scan of the actual slip or STFU.

Why dont you say that to matt? I can attest for those times, because matt has MY run on that very slip. I didnt keep it around because I had a bad launch and ran a 13 flat IIRC although it might be laying in my car somewhere. I do remember that our 60' times were perfectly identical, which was sorta weird, and explains why I only ran a 13 for that run.

I am not trying to say anything conclusive here, I am simply trying to prove that this evidence does nothing to wow us into thinking the car is any faster than anything we have already seen done before, which it technically should be assuming this setup has been proven for consistent 9 or 10 second runs in RWD cars.

Orief, I would be very surprised if this time slip looked much different from your own 12.2 second run.

edit for link

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/067266.html

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 12-31-2007).]

This is what I have to say about this thread.
Chuck you post the topic "MotorTV Time Slip and Dyno Run" and then post heres some slips of me testing it out, can you figure out why. Then oh I'll post more later. You should of stuck to the topic. No offence intended. I got tired of going through pages looking for what the topic stated, A time slip and A dyno run. Archie you just came in here and starting bashing on people. stop trolling. DarkH started posting trying to figure out why the time slip(s) were slow, as per the topic. Then it got bad/worse. If every thread was "hey here some info, but first you have to guess why, this forum would not of lasted 1 month.

Everyone just grow up, stick to the topics, and leave the pettyness behind.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I am not trying to say anything conclusive here, I am simply trying to prove that this evidence does nothing to wow us into thinking the car is any faster than anything we have already seen done before, which it technically should be assuming this setup has been proven for consistent 9 or 10 second runs in RWD cars.

If you are "not trying to say anything conclusive here", Then why did you make the comments in your recent posts in this thread?
The point is the "evidence" is not complete and you are making comments about on what you think might be the results.
The runs were done this past fall, Why don't you wait until spring (all the local tracks are closed for the season) and see if Chuck does a full out run?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Orief, I would be very surprised if this time slip looked much different from your own 12.2 second run. edit for link https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/067266.html

My slip is for 12.3, besides that, I did not see any "slips" in that thread but I did see numerous posts by a few on what their times were. So who's times do you want me too look at? AkursedX's, Matt's, or yours??

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Okay great, we're getting somewhere. The number 780 left who's mouth? Chuck? Someone else? Did you verify that info with Chuck before posting it on the internet? If you just overheard someone say something, I'd have to say this whole thread/flame war is your fault. Check your facts before posting them. I recall CBS got in trouble for the same thing.

What kind of # should I get with the LS1 PCM Ryan?
I am headed to mad town soon for a dyno check. I don't even have the tuning software yet. Well Ryan?
780 hp at the rear wheels?

You know if everthing works out I should get 785hp after I get it tuned I should run about 7.80

Ok Ryan what # did you come up with and what do you think I should have with a STOCK PCM and program, STOCK 275 hp engine, Stock and hurt Trans, Stock 275 hp stall converter.

What did you make?



Just joking

I forgot something


How about now

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 01-07-2008).]

I have a SuperCharger for my car now. maybe 800 hp
Ok guys just joking around, but how about helping me out and showing up at GLD on Aprill 13th to spank some FORD guy's

?? Day at the Track Spring Midwest Meet ??? let's Discuss??
Spring LvC Great Lakes Dragaway Meet

I am waiting for the manual v8 guys to accept my challenge, I will race for whatever, money/pinks, heads up best of 5 races pinks style anywhere in the midwest.

quote Originally posted by AJxtcman: .....

You running back in the Falls industrial park? Kind of looks familiar.........

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I am waiting for the manual v8 guys to accept my challenge, I will race for whatever, money/pinks, heads up best of 5 races pinks style anywhere in the midwest.

I never saw that challenge before, but you're on.

We will be racing for $5000.00 cash, just like on Pinks. (bring cash or Money Order)

We will be racing at Great Lakes Dragaway.

We can run in late April or early May whatever day you can make it into town.

Bring proof that the car you are racing belongs to you.

Put up or shut up.

Archie

quote Originally posted by Firefox: You running back in the Falls industrial park? Kind of looks familiar.........

Capitol near 45 and Hampton

MotorTV

From what I see, your 60'-330' times are a tad slower than a high 12 second car. This is the time when you would be pulling hard in second gear into third.Or "a quick blast through 6000 rpm in second" Can you explain what was happening and why a fiero with plenty of hp to go fast from 60' to 330' is on par with a 12.8 Grand Prix going balls to the wall through those points.

everyone else can leave their comments at the door, I didnt read alot of this thread and I dont feel I missed too much.

quote Originally posted by Archie: I never saw that challenge before, but you're on. We will be racing for $5000.00 cash, just like on Pinks. (bring cash or Money Order) We will be racing at Great Lakes Dragaway. We can run in late April or early May whatever day you can make it into town. Bring proof that the car you are racing belongs to you. Put up or shut up. Archie

no offense to you guys, but racing in a straight line is gay...it requires very little driving skill, just decent shifting if you have a manual tranny...


why in the hell do people call it racing for "pink" slips? i never got that.. ive never seen a pink vehicle title in my life


ohh , and to stay on topic, i never understood the whole big deal f the test and tune with the LT1 / turbo combination.. an LT1 turbo setup is something that has been done a thousand times on other cars...i am still convinced of motorTV's intent to just brag to everyone in here and put himself over, because of his supposed coolness for running a car slow on a track to get a "perfect tune"...

quote Originally posted by Archie: I never saw that challenge before, but you're on. We will be racing for $5000.00 cash, just like on Pinks. (bring cash or Money Order) We will be racing at Great Lakes Dragaway. We can run in late April or early May whatever day you can make it into town. Bring proof that the car you are racing belongs to you. Put up or shut up. Archie

Nice, I'll be there. May want to bring the trailer Arch, and clean out a spot in the shop.

Can we make side bets as well???

[QUOTE]Originally posted by aaronrus:


no offense to you guys, but racing in a straight line is gay...it requires very little driving skill, just decent shifting if you have a manual tranny...
QUOTE]

I would like to argue that point.

In a 15 second race you need to be on your game for 15 seconds. The quicker the time less time allowed for error.

In a Road race if you make a slight error you can make it up.

You need to take the shortest point between A and B. Road Course is not always that way.

I like Drag racing, but it is my least favorite type of racing. It is just too short.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I am waiting for the manual v8 guys to accept my challenge, I will race for whatever, money/pinks, heads up best of 5 races pinks style anywhere in the midwest.

Hmmmm, I never saw this "challenge" either. But if you accept Archie's response, I'll be there too.

quote Originally posted by Archie: I never saw that challenge before, but you're on. We will be racing for $5000.00 cash, just like on Pinks. (bring cash or Money Order) We will be racing at Great Lakes Dragaway. We can run in late April or early May whatever day you can make it into town. Bring proof that the car you are racing belongs to you. Put up or shut up. Archie

Now, I would like to see this happen.

I would like to see it happen (on fair terms). It seems that to help ensure that this event takes place the terms might need to be a little different. Since 99% of forum members don't have $5000 kicking around to challenge you in this fashion, this could be construed as posturing to prevent a real line-up. It might be more feasible to race car for car, something everyone here has. If you two are confident in your rides, I fail to see how that would be a problem.

The other thing thats unreasonable to expect in this challenge is to have to drive 350+ miles ONE WAY to race you in your back yard. Again, since you are in the unique business of Fieros, you may be able to take time off or work an unusual schedule that this seems reasonable, but 99% of forum members with "regular" full-time jobs are not going to have the time off to drive 350 or miles to take you on.
It seems like a fairer proposition would be to Meet HALFWAY in-between. A real show of confidence would be to come right to his house and take away his car at Milan or Lapeer (but that wouldn't be fair to you, either)

Perhaps an interesting twist could be that both vehicles must drive to this intermediate, centralized facility and meet by a certain time, with any failure on either car resulting in failure to appear on time considered an automatic forfeiture of the vehicle, just like on Pinks.

Come to think of it, this grudge-match zhit is the kind of stuff that those Pinks producers just eat up...you could be on TV.....

Perhaps if a cash wager is necessary, it could be for the exact amount (to the penny) of an Archie Deluxe V8 kit?

Kurt

((Flame suit on............kidding!))

[This message has been edited by KurtAKX (edited 01-08-2008).]

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX: Now, I would like to see this happen. I would like to see it happen (on fair terms). It seems that to help ensure that this event takes place the terms might need to be a little different. Since 99% of forum members don't have $5000 kicking around to challenge you in this fashion, this could be construed as posturing to prevent a real line-up. It might be more feasible to race car for car, something everyone here has. If you two are confident in your rides, I fail to see how that would be a problem. The other thing thats unreasonable to expect in this challenge is to have to drive 350+ miles ONE WAY to race you in your back yard. Again, since you are in the unique business of Fieros, you may be able to take time off or work an unusual schedule that this seems reasonable, but 99% of forum members with "regular" full-time jobs are not going to have the time off to drive 350 or miles to take you on. It seems like a fairer proposition would be to Meet HALFWAY in-between. A real show of confidence would be to come right to his house and take away his car at Milan or Lapeer (but that wouldn't be fair to you, either) Perhaps an interesting twist could be that both vehicles must drive to this intermediate, centralized facility and meet by a certain time, with any failure on either car resulting in failure to appear on time considered an automatic forfeiture of the vehicle, just like on Pinks. Come to think of it, this grudge-match zhit is the kind of stuff that those Pinks producers just eat up...you could be on TV..... Perhaps if a cash wager is necessary, it could be for the exact amount (to the penny) of an Archie Deluxe V8 kit? Kurt ((Flame suit on............kidding!))

Ja! You want it so easy. Like "Yeah I want to fight you, come here to my home and I'll kick your a$$"!!" LOL! Archie is not the one calling this. Is the V8 troll. If you want to play then show the money to play. Archie has nothing to prove. But as you can see the opportunity to earn $5000 will motivate him. But them again because he is not the one calling or interested in it then go to his place and motivate him more.

quote Originally posted by Archie: I never saw that challenge before, but you're on. We will be racing for $5000.00 cash, just like on Pinks. (bring cash or Money Order) We will be racing at Great Lakes Dragaway. We can run in late April or early May whatever day you can make it into town. Bring proof that the car you are racing belongs to you. Put up or shut up. Archie

That may be the best post I have ever read on this forum.

I would love to see this race. Hopefully it can done in the spirit of good-natured competition; something to be enjoyed and not just a grudge match.

Is anyone available to professionally document this race? It would be nice to see pre and post interviews with the competitors, multiple cameras on the drag, and good sound levels. Maybe a Paypal donation account can be setup to support this.

quote Originally posted by Jay-ID: That may be the best post I have ever read on this forum. I would love to see this race. Hopefully it can done in the spirit of good-natured competition; something to be enjoyed and not just a grudge match. Is anyone available to professionally document this race? It would be nice to see pre and post interviews with the competitors, multiple cameras on the drag, and good sound levels. Maybe a Paypal donation account can be setup to support this.

I have a friend in the video taping business. So yes we could have it filmed and a DVD with per and post pic, vids, and interviews.

quote Originally posted by Archie: I never saw that challenge before, but you're on. We will be racing for $5000.00 cash, just like on Pinks. (bring cash or Money Order) We will be racing at Great Lakes Dragaway. We can run in late April or early May whatever day you can make it into town. Bring proof that the car you are racing belongs to you. Put up or shut up. Archie

This thread just got interesting...

Where is DH?

I try to stay out of stuff like this, but in all honesty, if you want to have some fun with this, I think some of the other quiet guys with strong 3800sc setups and other v6 setups should go too. there are plenty of v6 guys here who don;t flame the v8 guys and have no issue with it. I would like to see it done soley for a side by side comparison, between guys who are doing it soley for the fun, but that can be after the grudge match .

I love the Archie setups, I;ve seen his work first hand in the perfect union, and I;ve done alot of v6 work in other cars, and just love seeing a good job done by anyone with an engine. IMHO, the sbc will win, but it could be close. I ran 3.8l's against many sbc's, and mopar small blocks, but the car weights adjusted for the hp differences. here it is same wieght cars, and then it can get really interesting. Bottom line is there is no replacement for displacement. Tho I think my last 3.8 na motor would hold it;s own there, but that really wasn;t a street motor. (11:1 comp, custom cam,B/B,too much headwork, 8k shift points with 9k redline, water injected 95 octane min gas, usually needed boosters on top of it or 100 av fuel-- my gnx killer )

MotorTV

From what I see, your 60'-330' times are a tad slower than a high 12 second car. This is the time when you would be pulling hard in second gear into third.Or "a quick blast through 6000 rpm in second" Can you explain what was happening and why a fiero with plenty of hp to go fast from 60' to 330' is on par with a 12.8 Grand Prix going balls to the wall through those points.

everyone else can leave their comments at the door, I didnt read alot of this thread and I dont feel I missed too much.

just reposting it to get a response from MotorTV

p8ntman442,
Calm down... you are studdering... :-)
Chuck

quote Originally posted by Archie: Put up or shut up.

Archie, I remember quite some time ago you challanged Gary Zumalt to a build off at a Fiero show. I am sure you remember that as well. What I can't remember is what time frame that was or what event it was supposed to take place at. Do you remember any of those details?

What I do remember is that Gary didn't respond to the challenge. I hope this one happens!!!

quote Originally posted by topcat: This thread just got interesting... Where is DH?

I do stuff other than watch threads on here...I do go to school full time, and pay for it myself without loans.

I dont think I am about to agree to a race without knowing anything about the car I am racing. I have information on every single part of my car available on the net here, and I dont even have an idea of what he wants to bring.

On the otherhand, knowing I will take crap for this, but I am not going to call archies bluff here, as I dont have 5000 to risk, nor do I want to take my car into the drag racing direction at the moment. i like driving it around town, and the fact I have already gotten back what I invested in it.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: On the otherhand, knowing I will take crap for this, but I am not going to call archies bluff here, as I dont have 5000 to risk, nor do I want to take my car into the drag racing direction at the moment. i like driving it around town, and the fact I have already gotten back what I invested in it.

I do not think Archie was bluffing... You sounded pretty confident in you statement... A manual V8 anywhere in the midwest heads up, best of 5 races.

Well, he sure backed out of that one unexpectedly haha

Here is exactly what you posted:

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I am waiting for the manual v8 guys to accept my challenge, I will race for whatever, money/pinks, heads up best of 5 races pinks style anywhere in the midwest.

Now you post this??

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: but I am not going to call archies bluff here, as I dont have 5000 to risk, nor do I want to take my car into the drag racing direction at the moment. i like driving it around town, and the fact I have already gotten back what I invested in it.

If you had no intention of doing it, Why did you even make the challenge to begin with? Did you think that nobody would accept? Sounds like you have been listening to that guy on the other forum with the 3.4L turbo. He challenged to run his car against a V-8 Fiero and also backed out with lame excuses.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I will race for whatever.....pinks style.... I dont...want to take my car into the drag racing direction...

LMAO, that was just funny.

[This message has been edited by AutoTech (edited 01-09-2008).]

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I am waiting for the manual v8 guys to accept my challenge, I will race for whatever, money/pinks, heads up best of 5 races pinks style anywhere in the midwest.

quote Originally posted by Archie: I never saw that challenge before, but you're on. We will be racing for $5000.00 cash, just like on Pinks. (bring cash or Money Order) We will be racing at Great Lakes Dragaway. We can run in late April or early May whatever day you can make it into town. Bring proof that the car you are racing belongs to you. Put up or shut up. Archie

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: On the otherhand, knowing I will take crap for this, but I am not going to call archies bluff here, as I dont have 5000 to risk, nor do I want to take my car into the drag racing direction at the moment. i like driving it around town, and the fact I have already gotten back what I invested in it.

You sure talk a lot of & brag about your 1/4 mile times a lot for a guy who doesn't want to take his car in the drag racing direction.

You set the critera for the challenge, then you back out, so it's all talk.

Next time you may want to qualify your challenge to say that it must be a V-8 car that you know you can beat.

You can plan on seeing the above quotes everytime you start talking your here on PFF.

quote Originally posted by AutoTech:

That pretty much says it all.

Archie

ps.....Now I guess I won't be getting that $10,000.00 operation after all.

A

[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 01-09-2008).]

You still have not said what car you are going to bring to the table, but unfortunately the time I have to play with cars as a kid is coming to and end after this next summer, and I just want to enjoy what I have and drive it all year.

I didnt mean to say I am not going to do this, If I run across some deals that will make my race car possible money wise, I could consider this at a greatly reduced entry price. I want to know what great setup archie will bring against me before I consider dumping money into my car to bring it up from daily driver status.

quote Originally posted by tjm4fun: my gnx killer )

speaking of stock gn's can run 12's with tuning. the fastest stock turbo, stock everything gn is 12.20 i think. i can't think of but one gn that i know that's still stock. it's also in a bubble with under 700 miles on it. so what i'm saying is that's a pretty bold statment. got any proof?

so for daytona this year does anybody want to have a track day? bithlo is open on friday nights test and tune.... i'd love to come out and see what some people are doing. no bets, just fun. i'll even race a v8 with my v6 :P

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: You still have not said what car you are going to bring to the table, but unfortunately the time I have to play with cars as a kid is coming to and end after this next summer, and I just want to enjoy what I have and drive it all year. I didnt mean to say I am not going to do this, If I run across some deals that will make my race car possible money wise, I could consider this at a greatly reduced entry price. I want to know what great setup archie will bring against me before I consider dumping money into my car to bring it up from daily driver status.

Maybe next time you should put your mind in gear before you put your mouth in motion.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I am waiting for the manual v8 guys to accept my challenge, I will race for whatever, money/pinks, heads up best of 5 races pinks style anywhere in the midwest.

Archie

I think this should be motivation to have a 1/4 mile racing day during the 25th show. Not just for the two mentioned here, but for everyone. Sure some will be faster and some will be slower, but in the end, the numbers will speak for themselves. There will be no time for excuses. And remember, this should be fun.

------------------
62 Buick Special
86 GT, 5-Speed
87 GT, 3.4l DOHC Turbo 415 WHP, 11.9 @ 118
88 Toyota Supra Turbo

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: You still have not said what car you are going to bring to the table, but unfortunately the time I have to play with cars as a kid is coming to and end after this next summer, and I just want to enjoy what I have and drive it all year. I didnt mean to say I am not going to do this, If I run across some deals that will make my race car possible money wise, I could consider this at a greatly reduced entry price. I want to know what great setup archie will bring against me before I consider dumping money into my car to bring it up from daily driver status.

So you want to race a V-8 Fiero but only after you know exact details about the car so you can mod yours before the race???? The only thing you stated was a V-8 Fiero with a manual.
What other information do you need? How about the car will be a Fiero with a Chevy small block V-8, a Manual transaxle, and on street tires. Is that enough info for you??

"Pinks" style is run what you bring. Pinks doesn't let you see the other car AND let you modify yours before the race. Two cars show up with a basic agreed set-up, They inspect each others cars, They run five times, and there is discussions as to car-length difference's in starts of each of the five runs. The best three out of five is the winner. Why would you need to modify your car??? You could always ask for a car length or two if you feel you are outpowered. From your "challenge" I would say you want to race your 3800SC/ auto transaxle Fiero against a SBC V-8 with a manual transaxle Fiero. So you picked the set-up and Archie agreed. Now you are backing down.

Yeah, Yeah, just keep back-pedaling. Face it you made a "challenge" that you thought nobody would accept. When someone did and you realized you had to actually do what you said you would do, you backed down. Now you are trying to back-pedal with lame excuses.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I didnt mean to say I am not going to do this,

Really?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I dont have 5000 to risk, nor do I want to take my car into the drag racing direction at the moment. the time I have to play with cars as a kid is coming to and end after this next summer, and I just want to enjoy what I have and drive it all year.