Hey!

That happened on my Dad's Formula when I was taking it out, and on the passenger side too.


I own page 2 yo

[This message has been edited by RideZiLightning (edited 11-23-2007).]

OK, I have all the parts delivered except the cradle - and that will be in the garage soon, I hope!

More to come - like a good shot of the torn oil pan. That's the first one I've seen...

I went out and took off one of the strut assemblies today. Lots of rust and junk falling off. PB Blast rules! I learned that it's a good idea to take off the bearing assembly while it is still on the car. I couldn't get it unbolted while it was on the dolly. Oh well. I also couldn't find the auto trans drain, but when the axle came out, I found my fix.

I'll hit the other strut tomorrow. After that, I don't know where to start! The cradle should arrive by Saturday. I got a great deal for an 88 cradle with front and rear suspension shipped from NJ to MD. $360 shipped sounds like a great deal to me, anyway. The parts look good in the pics - especially the cradle. I hope it looks as good in person.

I'm going to wire-brush the old rusted cradle and see if it can be reused by welding in a few pieces to hold the suspension bolts. On two of them, one side is just about gone. If it can be saved, it might be a good candidate for the 3800 I have on an old Fiero cradle in the garage. It might go in the 4-banger CJB coupe that's coming later this month - and she needs a little more power...

Pics should be up tomorrow. Man, it's good to get back out in the garage again! So many projects - so little time.

Cheers!

this would be a good time for a L36 or L67 swap and include the overdrive transmission.

for all purpose drivability the L36 motors are dirt cheap and last ALONG time and get great gas mileage.

matthew

quote Originally posted by m0sh_man: this would be a good time for a L36 or L67 swap and include the overdrive transmission. for all purpose drivability the L36 motors are dirt cheap and last ALONG time and get great gas mileage. matthew

The 4T65 tranny is a great swap and very easy to do.

Listen to the man Sax!

quote Originally posted by Toddster: The 4T65 tranny is a great swap and very easy to do. Listen to the man Sax!

anything from the 4t6x family will work, id guess that a 3800 series II n/a with a 4t60E in stock form would net 30-38MPG depending on driver, in a fiero, they are rated at 205HP and 230ft/lbs.

matthew

I wonder what the rating is on the 88 Buick 3800 I have in the garage? The 88's were Series I, correct?

quote Originally posted by Saxman: I wonder what the rating is on the 88 Buick 3800 I have in the garage? The 88's were Series I, correct?

165HP and 210ft/lbs while its not really worth the hassle of swapping it in, if its free, its better than the 2.8L, however ive seen the series II 3800's with auto transmissions sell for $250-300 in great shape, (not supercharged) and i got my high mileage supercharged engine/trans combo for $500

matthew

I can be easily convinced to get a Series II, but the extra costs for mounts and the wiring harness (+ other expenses I don't know about) worry me.

I guess I need to do some research. Thanks for the help, Mosh!

BTW, the mounted 3800 I have is on a chopped-off 86 Fiero cradle and the mounts are steel plates welded on, so I can't re-use them. It runs tandem ECMs but I don't know diddly about that stuff. I'd rather sell it to help pay for a Series II.

What I'd really like to do is sell everything (my V8 Fino, the rebuilt 5k-mile 2.8 with rebuilt 0-mile Getrag, and the mounted 3800 with an Isuzu) to fund a new 3800SC Fino built on the T-top chassis I've been saving! Then, once it is on the road, the Formula can go up for sale, leaving me with just one Fiero. Any takers for the Fino and engines for $10k?

I have a few pics of what's up so far.

Here she sits - patiently waiting


The nice tear where the rod went through the oil pan


The top of the engine is nice and clean. I wish I could say the same for the bottom half


Because this is what it looks like


I wonder if that can be salvaged with some good welding...

Sax this looks like some very intense therapy! You should be well balanced and normal by the time you are done. Just kidding...

I wish I could be there to help. Two heads...and backs are better than one.

------------------

So true! Actually, I wish I were down there in good ol' Florida so I could work with the garage open. PB Blaster stanks!!

Now I am wondering if I should put the Getrag in place of the Formula's automatic (if I don't go 3800). I'll do some more research on the actual cost of the 3800. Since I have the fresh 2.8/Getrag, maybe selling it will fund the 3800. I guess I have time to figure it out since it will take some hours to get all this stuff off the rusty cradle...

So many decisions, so little garage time.

Hey I just caught on to this thread. So that's what you needed the hood for. Good lookin' project apart from the rust issues. Hey, my opinion, if you've already got everything for the swap there, do the 3800 with the Getrag. Of course that's going to depend on what the wife likes to drive. But I think the 5 speed is more desirable in the resale market. Mated with the dependable 3800, a winning combo.
Doug

quote Originally posted by Saxman: Because this is what it looks like I wonder if that can be salvaged with some good welding...

Am I looking at the Titanic? I swear I see "rusticles"

Yeah, Doug - the hood was for this one. Randomtask is trading his 88 T-top coupe for my 87 T-top (plus another Getrag I have) so I can save a CJB from getting cut up - since he only needs the Tops. He said it is red, so I can use the hood from that one for now. I think we are trading in a couple of weeks.

The 3800 makes sense. I wonder what I can get for the 5k mile 2.8? Maybe I'd be better off looking for another car with a bad engine and putting it in there, then selling it all for more Fino-money.

Sorry about sounding so wishy-washy. You guys are my sounding board. I haven't had a chance to check out 3800 mount prices and other things I might need.

How close is Jarrettsville to you? I'll be up there overnight tonight.

Hey Jarretsville is only 10-15 min. away. You'd be right around the corner. You should swing by if you get a chance. I'll be home later this evening and tomorrow morning if you've got time to stop by. I'll PM my phone # to you. Doug

Nice to finally meet you, Mytime. I wish I had a place like yours - and the triple garage is a nice plus!

I'll be up for a ride in the 3800sc when it is ready!

quote Originally posted by Saxman: Do rusticles make it a male cradle?

AGh! There is a play on words I hadn't considered.

Anyway, I see wire brushes in your future!

Hey Andrew, nice to meet you face to face at last also. You'll have to stop by again next time you're in the neighborhood when you have more time. Not sure when the 3800 will be rolling but hopefully this summer I'll get time to work on it. Good luck on your pile-o-projects.

Yeah - next time I have to stay long enough for a brew or two. Maybe I'll be in the 88 Formula next time I'm up.

I'm still waiting on the delivery of the new 88 cradle and suspension. I guess the holidays have held it up. I'll have some garage time tomorrow - once I recover from tonight!

OK, I never recovered from New Years Eve and I am going to bed now.

Just wanted to post this link - https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/088599.html

It is a great example of how to take out a cradle. I did it this way to get as far as I am. Unfortunately, I did it just before that USEFUL information was posted

More to come - and many more questions to come!

[This message has been edited by Saxman (edited 01-04-2008).]

The new cradle has arrived! It was packaged quite well. Pics to come - and more questions, I'm sure.

BTW, If anyone close to (or traveling through DC) has a hood with no cracks, I am still looking for one. Red is preferred, but I can have it painted if it's a different color.

I'm living in Quebec Canada

My 88 cradle was in about the same shape.

Look at this picture after I hardly removed the suspension arms. I was able to punctuture the side of the cradle with a screwdriver. Mainly driver side because of the salt put on the roads during winter.



This was a bottom radiator holder

That makes me feel better!

Oh, welcome to the forum!!

Looks like a front sway bar from a Formula may be.

If you have no use of the dust shields, I might be interested. Mine are literally "gone".

[This message has been edited by falcon_ca (edited 01-04-2008).]

Maybe from another car

[This message has been edited by Robert 2 (edited 01-04-2008).]

Seriously! When the metal of the cradle is formed it gets very thin in the area of the front transmission mount. Check for cracking! And consider adding some
reinforcement inside that wont interfere w/ the emergency brake. Especially if doing an motor upgrade, consider it even if it looks good, and staying stock.
Bill Levin used to make a purpose built reinforcement for this area, sold them in the mall here on the forum.

Norm

quote Originally posted by Saxman: Do rusticles make it a male cradle?

Yes, an old one that doesn't anything like it used to.

quote Originally posted by gt88norm: Seriously! When the metal of the cradle is formed it gets very thin in the area of the front transmission mount. Check for cracking! And consider adding some reinforcement inside that wont interfere w/ the emergency brake. Especially if doing an motor upgrade, consider it even if it looks good, and staying stock. Bill Levin used to make a purpose built reinforcement for this area, sold them in the mall here on the forum. Norm

I remember hearing about this before. Thanks for the great advice! I'll see what I can do.

After looking throught several 3800 installs, I think I will go ahead and put the 2.8 back in here. I want to get this on the road again. Between the hood (may cost up to $100 to get a good one, then $200 for a good paint job onit), then this cradle $ - so this one has drained my Fiero funds. If I have to buy more parts for a 3800, the wife will kill me!

I would definitely reinforce the front trans mount area. My V8 tore a 4"x 2" hole in my cradle on a hard launch. (damn solid transmission mounts). That was years ago. After I welded in more plating, the cradle in my V8 Fiero is fine.
Also, what wrecking yard in NJ did you get the parts from? I'll have to stop by there and see what other goodies they may have.
Dave

------------------

1987 GT (my toy-see above), 1987 GT (wife's toy), 1986 SE soon to be VR6, certified master technician/shop owner
www.njautobahn.com

i second re-enforcing the cradle at the front tranny mount, im almost positive its cracked on my 3800 car, and possibly cracked on my 3.4L pushrod car, although with a stock 2.5L or 2.8L i doubt it will be a problem, you just never know.

a piece of 1/8th or 1/4" plate steel welded over the area approx 8" long or so should be plenty of extra meat, probably dont even need that much.

im still looking into how i want to mount my 3800 in my 88 coupe, im debating on attempting some type of install using the stock transmission mount for the 4t65E-HD its made to mount similar to the 88 4cyl trans, but ill have to put some type of front/rear bracing on it.

matthew

I'll have to look around to see if anyone has pics of their cradle strengthening. I don't know if the plate should be welded on the top of the cradle over the bolt holes or inside on the back side of the bolt holes.

I should be getting the Por-15 today, so I'm going out now to enjoy the 3rd day of warm weather and get some garage time in.

quote Originally posted by Saxman: I'll have to look around to see if anyone has pics of their cradle strengthening. I don't know if the plate should be welded on the top of the cradle over the bolt holes or inside on the back side of the bolt holes. I should be getting the Por-15 today, so I'm going out now to enjoy the 3rd day of warm weather and get some garage time in.

The one that I purchased from Bill Levin (along w/1.5" lowering transmission mounts (hand delivered 140 miles away)) were
originally designed for super-charged 3800 SII conversions. They are pieces of channel w/ outward lips that fit inside the
frame channel at the mount location. He designed them w/ the emergency brake cable in mind. It was suggested that they
be welded in place after every thing was bolted up. The reason I bought the poly. lowering trany mounts was to reduce the
carving on the hinge for the '95 LQ conversion that's been on hold for awhile. Sure hope that combo doesn't put my oil pan
too low.

I'm not certain if Bill is still offering them, I purchased through the 'Mall' here at PFF.
His tranny mounts are well made, very professional, nice beads, and probably handle enough shock load to eviscerate any
Getrag!

Norm

Glad to see you are progressing with this project!


Here are two tidbits of info that I had lying around:

1. Alignment

This is how the Formula was aligned (someone on PFF originally sent it to me).

Front end:
Caster: +2 Degrees +/- 1/4
Camber: -1/4 +/- 1/8
Toe in: .06-.09

Camber at the rear: -1 degree +/- 1/2

This however may only be the best set-up for 88s (this was gleaned from "Fiero Secrets" and is probably not the same as the original factory
recommendation)
-------------------
note: I had it aligned shortly after I got the new tires, the car ran straight in wet and dry weather, even over that metal grate stuff on bridges (my GT used to wobble a bit when it would go over that stuff) *WHITE KNUCKLES*


2.The VDC Shocks


I ordered the replacement(heavy duty) shocks from :

Jerry XS Customs
727 520-2022.


Jerry Myers
13361 86th Avenue
Seminole Fl,33776

220.00

Don't know why you would need this info, but I figured 'what the heck...'
---------------------


Good luck with the rest of the swap!

-FieroRumor

[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 01-11-2008).]

quote Originally posted by FieroRumor: Glad to see you are progressing with this project! Here are two tidbits of info that I had lying around: 1. Alignment This is how the Formula was aligned (someone on PFF originally sent it to me). Front end: Caster: +2 Degrees +/- 1/4 Camber: -1/4 +/- 1/8 Toe in: .06-.09 Camber at the rear: -1 degree +/- 1/2 This however may only be the best set-up for 88s (this was gleaned from "Fiero Secrets" and is probably not the same as the original factory recommendation)

Thanks for the info! I am going out to take parts off the old cradle and wire brush them before breaking out the Por-15. More pics to come.

Also, thanks for the cradle info!

OK, it took quite a while to remove one of the rear arms - and the most rusted one would not come all the way out. (What are those two arms called, anyway? One has the two adjustment threads and the other is just a solid arm)

I eventually used heat to get the nut off, but I am having trouble getting the bolt out of the old rubber. Any hints? Yes, like you said before - it looks like something out of the Titanic!


I got the wire brush out on the new cradle and it came out pretty good. I still need to prep it for Por-15. I'm trying to get all the reuseable old parts from the rusted cradle so I can Por-15 all of them at once.


I think it will be fairly nice out tomorrow, so I should be able to degrease them all outside.