ummm, just a point, those arms and knuckes you have in that pic with the cradle are not fronts, they are the rears. Not sure if that is a typo or not, but the front suspension looks nothing like that .
those bent tierods are for adjusting toe on the rear.
The complete front suspension has a narrow cradle like piece that goes side to side, the steering rack mount on it. on the outer edges, that part you see with the shock and control arms mounted to it is all one piece thru to the other side.

I really hope you mean rear, if not, you didn;t get what you ordered.
another edit:
the first pic where you mention the bent tierods show the rear 88 style knuckles, arms and bearing.
the pic under it where you mention the dust chields shows a set of 88 front hubs, but no other front suspension parts are shown in any of those pics.

[This message has been edited by tjm4fun (edited 01-12-2008).]

Thanks, tjm4fun. I meant to say rear, so you are correct. I have fixed it.

Another thanks, because I had not noticed that the upper and lower control arms for the front were not packaged in the crate. I have asked the seller to send those to me since that was part of the original agreement. I hope he responds and gets those out to me before I move on to the front of the car.

Thanks again!

I got some rust treatment on the brown spots of the new cradle today, so the surface rust has been stopped.

I also fought hard with one of the junkyard rear knuckles to get the arms off. It is a bastard to do when the parts aren't connected to a car anymore! Jeez! It took a big hammer and some heat, but I finally won. One more to go...

Best of all, I got my work bench cleared for the first time in 3 years. I can now put parts ON the bench instead of treating it like a big shelf for storing things.

Wahoo!

quote Originally posted by Saxman: I also fought hard with one of the junkyard rear knuckles to get the arms off. It is a bastard to do when the parts aren't connected to a car anymore! Jeez! It took a big hammer and some heat, but I finally won. One more to go... Best of all, I got my work bench cleared for the first time in 3 years. I can now put parts ON the bench instead of treating it like a big shelf for storing things. Wahoo!

I kept thinking I wouldn't want to try getting those knuckles off without the rest of the car to hold them. Glad you won. Clearing the bench must feel good too. You got a lot accomplished this weekend. You're the man !

------------------

quote Originally posted by 1MohrFiero: You got a lot accomplished this weekend.

Yeah, Dwayne - I think I told you, but this new job at "the office" has changed things. I perform full time now (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pD8o1XTjxc and listen to the saxes at 3:08. I'm on the far right).

Wahoo! No more PR for me for a while. This new year-long "performer" schedule gives me a lot more garage time. Now the wife is tired of seeing me at home. She's ready for the band to hit the road again soon...

Maybe if I can get this Formula back on the road, I'll get out of the house mohr. (pun intended)

Yeah, yeah, I think I need a job in a band. What did Dire Staights say, "That aint workin'"?

quote Originally posted by 1MohrFiero: Yeah, yeah, I think I need a job in a band. What did Dire Staights say, "That aint workin'"?

So true. When you love your job, that ain't workin'

I got out in the garage a bit this last week and pulled the control arms off the other rear knuckle - sitting on the work bench. Geez - these 20-year old bolts do NOT like to move when they are off the car. Using a hammer on the end of a wrench, a torch and lots of swearing finally broke them free. It wasn't until I broke into the F and S words that things started to move, so that was the key

I'll start pulling all the parts off the "old" cradle now. My garage heater can't keep up when it is 18 degrees outside, so things are on hold. I can't even use the Por-15 until it is above 50 outside because I need some good ventilation - or either the fumes will kill me - or the explosion will...

I found some front control arms in Florida, so I hope to make it down for Daytona to pick them up (and to meet bmwguru, Anonymity, Jake Dragon and a bunch of others) - and hopefully find a bright red hood (in great condition).

Who wants a ride down?

So, both the old and new engines are sitting side-by-side in the garage waiting to trade body parts - heh heh. The ground is covered in rusty dust and pieces -my gosh!

That got me into the trunk for some exploring. It seems that someone had used silver paint to "seal" the rust in the trunk, so I need to get the vacuum out to see what is under the pile-o-rust. I imagine it can be sealed up to keep the trunk dry. I guess I will need a little more Por-15 to get this car right! At least the battery area of the trunk looks good. Hey - I found a good point about the rear of this car! Wahoo!

I took some pics, but my Photoshop program was returned to work, so I can't resize the TIF's I accidentally took. I'll try to get them resized soon.

This will all come out fine - I have no worries. It's just more money than I ever planned on spending on this car, so things will slow down for a while. The wife is not letting me spend more on the car, so replacing the rear bushings will have to wait. I can go ahead and swap over as many parts as possible, but getting those last rubber or poly parts on will have to wait. New bolts for the exhaust and cradle will have to wait, too. Having a new hood painted is WAY off now.

I guess I can use this time to put in the new lambo-door strut that FieroRumor included, too. Man, is sucks to look at the great body panels on this car and not drive it around! She really does look nice! Even nicer if there were 4 wheels under her right now!

If the Fino sells, then this car will be finished quickly - and I'll start on the NEW T-top Fino with a 3800SC. I'll take $10k for the V8 Fino if anyone is interested...

quote Originally posted by Saxman: I found some front control arms in Florida, so I hope to make it down for Daytona to pick them up (and to meet bmwguru, Anonymity, Jake Dragon and a bunch of others) - and hopefully find a bright red hood (in great condition). Who wants a ride down?

I will be there saturday around noon.

I hope I can meet you there, Jake!

Update time:

I have most everything moved over to the 87 longblock. The oil sender was changed over along with the A/C brace, alternator and, of course, the wiring harness.

A note on the A/C brace: I swapped it over because the 87 block had the stut mount near the bottom that I did not need. When I removed it, it left a gap under the A/C brace. I swapped it figuring the 88's brace would fit better - but it didn't. I just put 3 washers behind that part of the brace instead. So, the A/C brace swap was not necessary.

I stripped out the lower alternator bolt hole when I switched over the alternator, so now there is a nut/bold holding it in place.

Today, I got the cradle coated in Por-15 along with the rear arms and dust shields. Tomorrow, the torque converter will be mated to it's new flexplate, then it will go on the engine.

I ordered new engine mounts and a new water pump tonight, so those arrive Tuesday. While I wait for those, I can get some exhaust wrap and hit the Y-pipe since all the insulated shielding that was there is in little pieces. (Thanks for the advice, Xanth)

I just need to find a suitable replacement for the rear cradle nuts/bolts and take delivery of the rear poly bushing I ordered yesterday. Of course, I will have to get the old bushings out, so that should keep me busy until Tuesday!

Is there any possible use for the old rusty 88 cradle I pulled? I don't know if someone wants it to do some experimenting on or not. Otherwise, it will go to the junk yard with the old block.

I'll have lots of 2.8 parts for sale soon, too. If any of you guys need anything, let me know. I can use the funds to pay for some of these extra parts. BTW - thanks, Doc-, for buying the Getrag. I sure needed the cash since my wife cut off the Fiero funds!

Here is a better shot of why the old engine had to come out. It even knocked the bolt off the block near the oil pan

quote Originally posted by Saxman: OK, it took quite a while to remove one of the rear arms - and the most rusted one would not come all the way out. (What are those two arms called, anyway? One has the two adjustment threads and the other is just a solid arm) I eventually used heat to get the nut off, but I am having trouble getting the bolt out of the old rubber. Any hints? Yes, like you said before - it looks like something out of the Titanic! I got the wire brush out on the new cradle and it came out pretty good. I still need to prep it for Por-15. I'm trying to get all the reuseable old parts from the rusted cradle so I can Por-15 all of them at once. I think it will be fairly nice out tomorrow, so I should be able to degrease them all outside.

If you want to do yourself a favor for long lasting stuff hot zinc plating the parts , and you never have problems again .
I did it with A arms and cradle went perfect and this hold for ever .

Thank god all my Fieros are not in this condition .

[This message has been edited by Torch-Red87 (edited 03-02-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Saxman: . Tomorrow, the torque converter will be mated to it's new flexplate, then it will go on the engine.

Saxman you arent going to mount the converter on the flex plate, and then add it to the engine as I read above I hope? I hope you ment to say you were going to seatt the converter on the imput shaft of the automatic transmission, and the flexplate on the engine before mounting the transmission on the engine. The other way is inviteing a disaster.
Joe Crawford
Texas

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 03-02-2008).]

quote Originally posted by josef644: Saxman you arent going to mount the converter on the flex plate, and then add it to the engine as I read above I hope? I hope you ment to say you were going to seatt the converter on the imput shaft of the automatic transmission, and the flexplate on the engine before mounting the transmission on the engine. The other way is inviteing a disaster. Joe Crawford Texas

Isn't the converter bolted onto the flexplate? It looks like I have to remove the converter from the flexplate while it is all on the old engine, then take the flexplate off the engine. I guess I'll go take another look...

You have to remove it from the flex plate (flywheel). Then seat the converter onto the input shaft of the transmission fully. It has to be all the way on there since it runs the pump in the transmission. Mount the flex plate on the new engine then attach the transmission. Then you rebolt the converter to the flex plate through the opening where the starter sits. You have to be 100% sure you have the converter seated all the way onto the input shaft before you mate the two or you could damage the transmission.

------------------
88 Coupe: Modded 4.9L V8 5 speed
84 Coupe: 4 Cyl 5 speed
www.geocities.com/fast88fiero

Got it! Thanks for saving my transmission!

So, once the converter is on the trans and the flexplate is on the engine - and the trans is bolted onto the engine, I can adjust the flywheel to line up the bolt holes to the coverter?

Thanks again-

[This message has been edited by Saxman (edited 03-02-2008).]

Yep, if you are unsure if you have the converter seated correctly, load it into the back of a truck and take it to a "trusted" transmission shop and have them seat it for you. Or a friend that has been here before and knows how this is supposed to go. I would reccommend that you ask them to replace the imput shaft/converter nose seal first, maybe $20.00 ? I never put a converter back on with a used seal. Its to cheap and easy to change at this point in time. Then before you leave for home place a straight edge across the transmission mounting surface and get you a measurement. From there you can use a piece of 2X4 strapped or tied across the converter to keep it from coming out any at all on the way home. Get all of this ready before you go to a shop for assistance. They can do all of this on your tailgate.

This is one of the biggest things that will doom the transmission install and cost you big bucks down the road. You will not know that it isnt correct till you start it for the first time, and then it is to late to save the pump in the front of the case.

When you bolt the converter back to the flexplate it is normal for it to be 1/8 -1/4"" or so behind the flexplate, and as you tighten the bolts it will pull to the flexplate. I start and finger tighten all bolts before I torque any of the bolts secureing the converter to the flexplate. If you are using the old flexplate mark the two so you can get them back togeather the same as GM had installed them. Just my preference, not a critical error if you didn't mark them.
Good luck
Joe Crawford
Texas

quote Originally posted by josef644: WATCH YOUR FINGERS when you remove that converter, it will be about 30-35 lbs with fluid in it!!!! You and I were typeing at the same time. You need to clean the nose of that converter real good, gas, diesel or thinner. Do not spray anything that will get inside that converter. And add some ATF to that cleaned surface before stabbing it on the input shaft for the seal to ride on a lubed surface.

Thanks! (You make it sound SO sexy!)

Is there any sign that it is seated on there properly? I wasn't planning on going to the trans shop during this rebuild.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Saxman, it is just something I have learned by doing several times. I try to slide them on square and turn them as then go on and the splines all mesh up. Listen you can hear and feel things meashing up correctly. There are two big lugs on the nose, and they match up with two spots inside the pump, I know how it should feel as it is installed in correctly. There should never be any binding. There is a bearing inside the converter that the nose of the imputshaft goes into also. This isn't magic or hard. It just has to be right, there is no gray area here. Thats why I said , if you arent sure, ask or pay for help here
Joe.

Thanks for all the help, Joe! I'd give you another plus if I could, but I gave it to you long ago.

Good Wrenching Saxman
Joe

I got a lot done yesterday and today. My wife is being very understanding - and wants to drive the Formula around herself.

I drained the oil out of the 87 block I am going to be using, but it did not look good. I have a receipt showing the block was rebuilt 5,000 miles ago; that's the good.

There was a bit of clear water present as it first came out and the oil is a bit milky. The engine has not been used for a few years, and it has been outside all that time.

So, should I just flush it out and continue with the install or should I really do more? The engine spins easily with a wrench so I am wondering if I should install it, add new oil (of course), run it a while then drain all the oil out again - maybe twice - to be sure that all the bad stuff is out.

The water was very clear, so there is no evidence it came from the coolant.

Otherwise, the rear control arms went to my friend today so he can take them to work and press out the old rubber and press in the new poly. I also put the new cradle on the dolly to start re-assembly. The torque converter and flexplate are off the old engine and the new un-weighted flexplate is ready to go on the newer block.

Trans mounts are due in tomorrow with a new water pump, so things are moving fast. I guess I better get this car registered!

quote Originally posted by Saxman: Here are a few other shots from underneath: Am I doomed after seeing this or will it still work?

Holy Bat Crap Batman! And I thought I had a lot of rust! OK, so I will quit whining.

It's all gone now - finally! The new rear parts are all Por-15'd and getting poly this week. The bottom end won't be recognizable the weekend - Wahoo!

I should start a "worst rust" thread so we rust-belters can show off our Titanic-like messes

The clear water is probavbly accumulated condensation. When it is started up and heats up the water will evaporate. You can remove the oil filler cap while it is ideling to assist the release of the water vapor.

Thanks again!

If oil is 3 or 4 years old, does it have a different look (brown) to it - especially after there has been some condensation in the pan? I just want to be sure. Thanks!

When you go to put that all back together, you can use Teflon Pipe Dope on the threads for the cradle bolts. Acts like antisieze, but doesn't wash out.
I havn't got far enough to have to remove the cradle yet, but on my cars, every suspension nut/bolt either gets the Teflon Dope or Antisieze.
I used that at work on any bolts that were near a steam line. You don't truely appriciate something until you have to deal with the trouble it could have saved you.
Isn't road salt great?

Yeah! I can't wait to move back down to Florida! No rust! (at least not all the way through )

Just be sure and drain all of the old oil out. Fill your oil filter and let it soak before you put it on the engine. Otherwise you will be spinning dry. I would remove all of the plugs spin it with the starter for a while before I even put it in the car. Look down in the oil filler hole to see if you can see oil coming out the rocker arm oiling hole. Once you Got that you are good to go.
Joe

Will do!

Today, I put the newly Por-15'd cradle on a dolly, then cussed and yelled about getting those damn retainer springs on to get the ehxaust to hang on the cradle.

I stripped some parts of the trunk with a wire wheel and Por-15'd the rough spots to get ready to be filled back in.

I stripped the blown engine down a bit more, but could not find a balancer puller, so the timing cover will have to stay in place for now.

Finally, I went to the auto parts store and returned some LED tail lights I can't use because the damn things glow red - and used the refund $ to buy fa iberglass kit for the trunk repair, header wrap for the exhaust and silicone sealer for the wrap. I also got the new trans mounts and water pump while I was there - and ordered the gasket for the cam end-cover. Jeez - it was $20! Wow! Is that normal?!?!

Well, here are a bunch of pics - finally!

First, I took the manifolds off again today to wrap them and the Y-pipe with header wrap. When the water dries, I'll spray them with the silicone sealer.



Here is how the engine looked before I pulled the manifolds off (again).



Here is the reason why the old 88 engine had to go - and the rebuilt 87 went in its place:





This is what the old oil from the rebuilt 87 looked like when I drained it. There were clear layers of water in there. The flash really makes it look lighter than it was. Waddya think?



Here is the trunk before the repairs - both sides:





Today, I glassed in the trunk holes both inside and out. I also pulled and wrapped the exhaust parts. It was a good day...

And here is the new Por-15 covered cradle waiting for a drive train:

[This message has been edited by Saxman (edited 03-05-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Saxman: Here is the reason why the old 88 engine had to go - and the rebuilt 87 went in its place:

Man I hate it when they do that!!!

[This message has been edited by josef644 (edited 03-05-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Saxman: First, I took the manifolds off again today to wrap them and the Y-pipe with header wrap. When the water dries, I'll spray them with the silicone sealer.

Saxman, I'm curious...are those manifolds ported, and welded on the outside? It's hard to tell from this photo. I traded Rumor a set of ported manifolds for a Pentium 4 CPU a while back, and I wondered if he had ever put them on the car. If so...Sluppy123 ported and welded them for me.

quote Originally posted by litespd: Saxman, I'm curious...are those manifolds ported, and welded on the outside? It's hard to tell from this photo. I traded Rumor a set of ported manifolds for a Pentium 4 CPU a while back, and I wondered if he had ever put them on the car. If so...Sluppy123 ported and welded them for me.

Those are ported, but I did not see where they were welded on the outside. Rumor sent them to me after the sale. They must be the same because I doubt Chris would buy two ported sets for one Fiero. Maybe I'm wrong about the welding on the outside.

I didnt see it mentioned, so just in case... make sure you use the 87 flexplate on the 87 motor. Your 88 flexplate is neutrally balanced and the 87 flexplate requires an offset weight.

Do you have any pics of the rusted out cradle in its entirety? I plan on heavily modifying one and could possibly use it if the parts I need arent rusted out. I dont know how much it would cost to ship to CA though..

quote Originally posted by Saxman: Well, here are a bunch of pics - finally! First, I took the manifolds off again today to wrap them and the Y-pipe with header wrap. When the water dries, I'll spray them with the silicone sealer.

Have you received any expressed concern over possible damage to the manifolds as a result of the higher temps they will experience with the heat wrap? They glow already under normal conditions and will certainly get much hotter with the insulation and may crack or shear off a manifold bolt or both.

quote Originally posted by Steven Snyder: I didnt see it mentioned, so just in case... make sure you use the 87 flexplate on the 87 motor. Your 88 flexplate is neutrally balanced and the 87 flexplate requires an offset weight. Do you have any pics of the rusted out cradle in its entirety? I plan on heavily modifying one and could possibly use it if the parts I need arent rusted out. I dont know how much it would cost to ship to CA though..

If you find a shipper to pick it up, it's free! I'll take some good pics just in case it works for you.