The exhaust manifolds are made from stainless, 410 to be specific, they'll handle the temperature just fine. The main reason why wrapping is a bad idea in most cases is that water gets trapped in the fabric and leads to rapid corrosion. That's not so much a problem with the stainless unless it's being driven in the salt belt, chlorides play hell with stainless IIRC.

JazzMan

409 stainless is the "stepchild" of stainless steel or lesser grade than 304 stainless. The heat is not the problem causing the concern but the added expansion that will result from it and increase the risk of cracking and bolt shearing which many have seen on manifolds under routine use with just the heat shield. Sustained hwy driving will certainly test the theory. I just recall mention of this possibility in the past and have personally had at least two sheared bolts and one warped manifold, plus a few that did not mount flush at one end. If I recall correctly stainless expands more than mild steel.

Since I still have two extra sets of manifolds, I'll just leave this as is and spray the sealant on Saturday. If there are problems later, I'll just replace bolts and manifolds. I can live with that.

My neighbor just dropped off the rear control arms with new poly in them. He has a nice press at his shop. He said it took about 30 minutes to do them all. Not bad for a 12-pack of Corona - I think.

bmwguru, he works at a BMW dealership. I told him about your shop and some of your projects. I bet he wishes he had customers that wanted some seriously high horsepower engines!

Wanna see more ugly stuff from the blown 88? This looks like it hurt...

Awwww C'Mon Sax .... that'll buff right out


Sorry I couldn't resist

Yeah - I guess I could just fix that pile of wrinkled bearings with some duct tape, too.

Actually, it looks like the block could have been salvaged if the rod hadn't taken out that one chunk where the oil pan bolt goes. Oh well. It's almost finished now, anyway.

Wahoo!

Dont they sell JB Weld in Merry-Land ?
Joe

quote Originally posted by josef644: Dont they sell JB Weld in Merry-Land ? Joe

In MD, they don't even break out the JB Weld. They just tell you they fixed it without ever touching it!

The Waldorfians don't even say, "Thank you." when they screw you over because their parents taught them that they are degrading themselves when they say that... I can't remember the last time I had great service anywhere in the Waldorf area.

Oh yeah, in the last 5 years, there is 1 guy at Advance Auto and Gary Epp does excellent Pontiac work out of his own shop in La Plata.

(sorry about the rant. I got cut off as the other "person" was looking right in my eyes yesterday. The people around here have gotten to me this week. I guess I should just stay in my garage - or form a club with bmwguru so we can sit around and complaing about how sh**ty peope treat others these days. )

[This message has been edited by Saxman (edited 03-08-2008).]

IT'S ALIIIIVE! Now I know how Dr. Frankenstein felt!!

The new starter just went in - it took about 40 minutes total. Most of the time was getting the damn wires off those double nuts. Both of them wanted to spin at the same time on each of the connections.

So, she immediately went up to 2100 rpm and stayed there until she got good and warm. I'm guessing that the ECM had to learn everything all over again.

She was a lot louder than I expected. It's been a while since I've heard a stock 2.8 fire up, so maybe that's normal. The high revs probably made it seem loud, too.

That bastard smoked like my grandfather! The exhaust wrap and silicone sealer were the culprits. After 3 or 4 minutes, it the smoking died off. My wife came out to see and told me to grab the fire extinguisher!

I let her get good and warm, then turned her off so I could go back and look at the flexplate teeth to make sure the starter was hitting it square. Instead of even getting to underneath, I saw a pool of oil waiting for me. It came from the oil sensor sending tube - where it connects to the block.

When things cool off, I'll get under there and tighten that up, put the starter shields back on and fire her up again.

Wahoo! Thanks for all the help, everyone. You made this one a success (so far)

Saxman, sounds very cool! My "new" 2.8 is waiting in my garage for a quality rebuild after my Duke's done, and this really inspired me. After my Fiero's tooting around I'm excited to make get things perfectly ready for the 2.8 swap, probably in a couple years. In case you're wondering, I'll be mounting the 2.8's Getrag on my Duke until the V6 is new again.

Edit: I forgot to add--> Was the silicone dried/cured completely when you started it? I've never seen hi-temp Si smoke on start-up.

-Michael
------------------
"A guy know's he's in love when he loses interest in his car for a few days." -Tim Allen


Check out my restoration!

[This message has been edited by Fierology (edited 03-16-2008).]

Great news! I love hearing about another Fiero getting resurrected.

And I hate those double nuts. You'd think there was a better way to have done it.

And the oil line shouldn't be too much trouble to fix, as long as the tube itself isn't damaged.

The oil tube looks fine, so I have that going for me.

Fierology, I've heard that they smoke pretty good on the first startup, so it didn't worry me.

The silicone spray is supposed to get up to 400 degrees to cure, so the first startup should do it. I'm sure there was some moisture still in there since I got it wet so it was easier to wrap.

Now that she has cooled off a bit, I'll go out now and see what else I can do.

Did I mention "Wahoo!" yet?

quote Originally posted by Saxman: (Fierorumor, is it R-12 or has it been updated?) Any advice on how I'd know if I have a bad rod knock?

The quick way to tell if it's R-12 or R-134a is to look at the highside and lowside ports in the front compartment. If they are threaded on the outside, it's R-12, if they are stepped, but not threaded it's 134a.

Rod knock, when it first starts, is generally most noticeable at or just off idle, when oil pressure is lowest. With your description of the noise, it's hard to say, but that oil light coming on is a bad sign in anyone's book.

I'm hoping the oil pressure is just from low oil. I man can hope, can't he?!

I'm about to go for another ride.

I did hear the noise right when I started accelerating from a stop on the first run, but not once it warmed up a while. Here's to hoping...

The air-sucking noise is pretty loud, so perhaps it's the EGR tube that runs to the exhaust. It seems too loud to be one of the smaller vacuum tubes. I can hear it clearly over the noise of the engine. I got the engine light on my first run, but after I took her up to speed, the light went out.

The engine light was probably the high idle code, if it went away right after you started giving it gas. It has to idle for 30 seconds above 1050 (I think) rpm.

Another thing to check is the IAC bypass tube. It is the 1/2 inch pipe from the back of the TB to the lower intake. Once in a while I forget to make sure both ends are seated after I've had the plenum off.

I've got my fingers crossed about those rod bearings.

Thanks, Jimmy.

I just finished another ride. The rumble/rattle happens when there is just a bit of stress on the drivetrain - whether I am accelerating or decelerating. I can also hear it when I push the gas in neutral - when there is a light load on the engine.

I need to get under there while someone else revs it to (hopefully) find out if the noise is the exhaust or in the engine.

When idling in gear, the oil pressure drops to just above the red line. In neutral, it is a little higher. Where should the oil pressure normally be when idling? -when in gear? (automatic)

Also, I need to find that air leak on top so my idle will chill. I'll check out the IAC. Thanks!

quote Originally posted by Saxman: Thanks, Jimmy. I just finished another ride. The rumble/rattle happens when there is just a bit of stress on the drivetrain - whether I am accelerating or decelerating. I can also hear it when I push the gas in neutral - when there is a light load on the engine. I need to get under there while someone else revs it to (hopefully) find out if the noise is the exhaust or in the engine. When idling in gear, the oil pressure drops to just above the red line. In neutral, it is a little higher. Where should the oil pressure normally be when idling? -when in gear? (automatic) Also, I need to find that air leak on top so my idle will chill. I'll check out the IAC. Thanks!

The gauge and sender aren't really that accurate, ideally it would be checked with a mechanical gauge. The normal oil pressure is between 30 and 45 psi, I believe that is measured at 2000rpm. There really isn't a spec (that I'm aware of) for oil pressure at idle. I like to see at least 10psi at idle, but no less than 30 by about 1500rpm. With the engine being recently rebuilt (in terms of mileage) I certainly wouldn't expect the pressure to be as low as it is, but you never know what the shop did. They may have set the bearing clearances loose to "free up" some power (I have heard this said, but I'd rather have the right clearance than run it too loose.). The shop may also have mic'ed the journals and found that it was still within spec and not reground it. If I have a high mileage engine with loose bearings I'll sometimes switch to a thicker oil to prevent pressure loss. The thicker oil won't flow quite as well, but it won't leak past the bearings as fast, keeping the pressure up.

You can use a stick about 18" long and touch the block, with the other end next to your ear. The sound will travel right up the stick. You can isolate the sounds and figure out the grimlin in the engine. Sorta like a stethascope.
Joe

I'll do that tomorrow-

Ahh, I wasn't thinking spray. I was thinking tube silicone rtv.

So, she seems to be running well except for the leak in the EGR tube at the intake. When I put some duct tape on it, the sounds went away and the idle settled down.

I'll pull that tube soon and get that sorted out while I wait on my Illinois registration to come back.

More to come!

So -some pics

Here she sits - waiting on a fixed EGR tube, a red hood and the registration



The finished engine when it was waiting to go back in



And it's finally in



Interior isn't too bad at all

[This message has been edited by Saxman (edited 03-19-2008).]

Is she a true Formula? I added the decals to mine cause I think it gives the car some class. It confuses Fiero folks, as it says SE in the sail panels, and has GT style seats. Your car looks real nice Saxman.
Joe

quote Originally posted by josef644: Is she a true Formula? I added the decals to mine cause I think it gives the car some class. It confuses Fiero folks, as it says SE in the sail panels, and has GT style seats. Your car looks real nice Saxman. Joe

I think so. I don't have a reason to doubt it, but I guess I should check. Know how?

Let's see how long before the wife wrecks it

quote Originally posted by Saxman: I think so. I don't have a reason to doubt it, but I guess I should check. Know how?

It's definitely an '88, so if the eighth digit in the VIN is a "9" it's a Formula. There was no '88 SE, and the base coupe didn't come with the V6.

EDIT:

Oh, and the fifth digit has to be an "E." If it's a "G" someone rebodied a GT.

[This message has been edited by FieroJimmy (edited 03-19-2008).]

quote Originally posted by FieroJimmy: It's definitely an '88, so if the eighth digit in the VIN is a "9" it's a Formula. There was no '88 SE, and the base coupe didn't come with the V6. EDIT: Oh, and the fifth digit has to be an "E." If it's a "G" someone rebodied a GT.

Good - both numbers check out. I didn't think it was a rebody/rebadge. Thanks for the info.

I didn't make it out to work on the EGR tube. I also found that one of the headlight plugs is broken off. I'll just pull a lamp off the T-top coupe waiting outside.

Fierorumor gave me a headlight rebuild kit that I'll really need once the hood is on. I don't think this one has the strength to push up the headlight cover.

I'll also get those new door struts in so I can take some shots with the doors in the up position.

Saxman! The car up and running? If you manage it, you should bring it to Cecil County Dragstrip on Friday. Mine will be there. =) I'd love to see more Fieros there. Hell, last time I was the only Pontiac there. Kinda depressing.

A stock Fiero won't win anybody over at a drag race. I need to bring the Mach 1 up there and see what it will do!

I'm planning to be at MIR for a Mustang show on Saturday, so I won't make it up there on Friday.

I used to drive near there years ago on my way up to Intercourse, PA. I just love Intercourse...

I'm not trying to win anybody over. It was fun last time though. I didn't run it, I just cruised through and parked with nothing but 'ooooooohs' and 'aaaahhhhs'.. It was great. I guess it was the first time most of them saw a fiero? Then again mine really has a V8 rumble to it.. I need to check and see if it's the stock muffler on there.. It sounds meaner than any other fiero around. But yeah, I'll be there Friday. Shame you can't make it!

Wish I could show up n the V8 Fino!

I picked up an EGR Tube from the junk yard today, but it came from an 86, so I doubt it will fit. I also grabbed two EGR tubes from 2.8 Firebirds in case those might stretch a bit to fit.

If those don't stretch to fit, I have 3 good replacements on hand for anyone needing 87 and older EGR tubes.

I took her out for another set of cruises today - none longer than 5 minutes. The rattling noise is still there, but it doesn't happen when I rev the engine while it sits still. It just happens when the car is accelerating from a stop and when the car shifts gears. When I push it, the sound is gone.

I stopped by a mechanic friend's house in the neighborhood and asked his opinion. We revved it a few times and he couldn't hear anything. Then, when I drove away, the car made the sound.

Good news is that it doesn't look like there is an engine knock, so the thicker oil was not necessary. Now I have to find a way of locating the exhaust noise. There were some pipe connections that could be moved by hand, so I have to assume that those are the problems.

One of them is where the exhaust tips connect to the exhaust ends. There are no clamps holding them together. I just stuck them in by hand. There is a clamp next to these connecting points but they are connected to the exhaust hangers to hold the exhaust tips up. I'll try some exhaust clamps on both of those points and see how it sounds then. They are pretty loose connections. I should have thought of that sooner...

It sure was a fun drive! The stock exhaust sounds SWEET! I don't remember my last 2.8 sounding this good.

Oh - the engine temp stayed way down - never even reaching the halfway point on the gauge. I guess all the exhaust wrap did the job.

quote Originally posted by Saxman: I did notice that when accelerating hard, the car would pull to the left really hard the second I let off the gas. As soon as the registration arrives, I'll have to take it to the alignment shop.

Check the tie rods for excess play, also check the rack bushing on the passenger side. If you grab the passenger tie rod and try to move it up and down you can see if the rack bushing is loose. Both parts are available from Rodney, and at great prices, too.

Mine is an 88 with all new bushings on a new cradle, so I am going to assume that everything under there is good until the alignment is done.

I'll be checking those things on the V8 Fino soon, for sure! Thanks!

(or are you talking about the front of the car?)

[This message has been edited by Saxman (edited 03-22-2008).]

When I started typing, I typed it all about the rear tie rods, then I remembered you had an '88, so I trashed it all, and started over.

Yeah, I was talking about the front. I figured the rear was ok since it was all new. Even if the alignment on the rear were off, you wouldn't expect it to shift depending on engine load, so I'm thinking excess wear/play in something on the front.

Ok Saxman, whats da scoop on da poop? Time for an update. You had all weekend to play.
Joe