Well, today I DID get bolt-on power steering - sold my 17 inch wheels and tires and put stock 15 inch back on. MUCH easier to handle . The guys with 13 inch must have a Really easy time.

Hey Cooter... glad my thread helped someone! Nice improvement on the intermediate shaft! Hope yours does as good as mine.... have not had 1 problem. As in my build thread I used a standard GM steering pump with hoses running along side the water pipe up to the rack... of course, my car has a V8... with fat tires!
here's the original thread...
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...060206-2-060145.html
best,
Sandy

[This message has been edited by cowans (edited 04-21-2008).]

quote Originally posted by cowans: Hey Cooter...

Thanks for checking in Sandy! Your build was the inspiration for this and since I have been Fieroless for a couple of weeks, I blame you
Does your rack have any play in it during normal driving? On mine, if you have your hands at the 9:00 and 3:00 position on the wheel while driving straight, you can move the wheel to about the 2:00/6:00 or 10:00/4:00 before the car seems to respond. I can't find any 'lost motion' anywhere so I am leaning toward it being in the rack.
Also, while coming out of a turn, mine does not seem to want to drive itself back straight without some input from me turning the wheel. Is that normal? It is almost like the gears were worn in the rack and instead of replacing them, they just cranked them down tighter. I may try a different rack- thank you "Lifetime Warranty".

Thanks!!
Greg

[This message has been edited by Cooter (edited 04-21-2008).]

Hi Greg, No, I don't have any 'play' in mine. My rack was a rebuilt unit, perhaps I got lucky! Rolling back to straight line???? mine self centers, but I'm wondering what your caster specs are??? more caster = a better return to center! (someone correct me if I'm wrong, my brain has a 15min format... getting old! LOL!) My specs are somewhat different(from Fiero) as my chassis is widened/and lengthened to fit the Koenig body!
best,
Sandy

quote Originally posted by cowans: Hi Greg, No, I don't have any 'play' in mine. My rack was a rebuilt unit, perhaps I got lucky! Rolling back to straight line???? mine self centers, but I'm wondering what your caster specs are??? more caster = a better return to center! (someone correct me if I'm wrong, my brain has a 15min format... getting old! LOL!) My specs are somewhat different(from Fiero) as my chassis is widened/and lengthened to fit the Koenig body! best, Sandy

The not centering could have to do with the electric pump. My MR2 pump does not quite self center either; it needs just a shade of help. Cooter, any tips on how to make the pump quieter? I suppose mine could be louder because it is an older MR2 pump from the 80's vs the newer pump you are using.

quote Originally posted by PaulJK: Well, today I DID get bolt-on power steering - sold my 17 inch wheels and tires and put stock 15 inch back on. MUCH easier to handle . The guys with 13 inch must have a Really easy time.

It has nothing to do with the wheel diameter and everything to do with offset and tire width.. Keep in mind the early Fieros used 30mm offset 15x7s and the 88s use ~37mm 15x6. The higher wheel offset gives a smaller scrub radius, and the 88 has low profile hubs to further improve it (over the 84-87). The 7mm difference doesn't sound like a lot, but it is noticeable! Your 17x7s probably had a low offset.

My 88 with 55mm offset 17x7s turned easier than it did with the stock 14" wheels. VERY nice steering.. I just wish the rack had a faster ratio..

Yesterday afternoon, I stopped by the local O'reilly Auto and explained my problem, the manager comes back with another rack and a couple of hours later, we are out test driving again. The new rack is much better. Still has a little play in it, but about like it was with the old Fiero rack (that was also a low mileage rebuild). After a trip to the alignment shop this morning, it is probably about as good as it is going to get. Kind of nice to flip a switch and have power assist on demand.

TG oreiF 8891- After some use, this pump has gotten a lot better. With the engine running, you really can't hear it. Do you have yours solid mounted? Mine is attached with a charcoal cannister bracket to a small stand that is bolted straight to the cross-member. I wonder if having it standing a couple of inches off the frame is why this one is not as noisy.

quote Originally posted by Cooter: TG oreiF 8891- After some use, this pump has gotten a lot better. With the engine running, you really can't hear it. Do you have yours solid mounted? Mine is attached with a charcoal cannister bracket to a small stand that is bolted straight to the cross-member. I wonder if having it standing a couple of inches off the frame is why this one is not as noisy.

Mine is mounted under the passenger side headlight. I isolated it by using rubber washers at all three mounting locations. I have but a few ideas on how to quiet it down.

What fluid are you using? I am using regular PS fluid, maybe, synthetic or the special Toyota fluid might quiet it down.

I also had a problem when I hooked it up. I hooked the pressure line and return up backwards at the rack. This might have damaged the internals of the rack and / or given the pump more resistance to push through and made it louder? I don't know, but returning the rack to Autozone is on my short list of things to do this spring.

I'm glad you got yours completed. If I don't have any luck with my pump, I may look into buying the one you used. I was going to just use this one until I do an engine swap and then use a regular belt driven pump, but if I can get it quieter, I'd consider keeping it. Thanks for showing us what you did.

quote Originally posted by TG oreiF 8891: Where on earth did you get 55mm offset rims? I have an 88 with lowering spindles that stick out an additional 0.125" minimum on each side so I need higher than stock offset and I am struggling to find anything. Of course, part of my problem is that I want 8" wide rims for the back too...lol!

He had Porsche Boxster wheels on his car for a while. Had to change the bolt pattern.

quote Originally posted by TG oreiF 8891: What fluid are you using? If I don't have any luck with my pump, I may look into buying the one you used. I was going to just use this one until I do an engine swap and then use a regular belt driven pump, but if I can get it quieter, I'd consider keeping it. Thanks for showing us what you did.

I am using 'import' car P/S fluid like a Honda. The Honda OEM fluid has a unique 'fishy' smell to it and this pump had the same smell, so that is what I went with. I don't know if it is any better or not, but years ago we learned that you DO NOT use anything in a Honda other than the specified Honda fluid.

I don't imagine that I will keep this pump forever. At some point, I will make up a bracket and pulley arrangement for a belt driven pump just because I may not be able to get another one like this in the future but a 'generic' Saginaw pump could be bought anywhere.

The best way to isolate the pump for noise would be to make a bracket and use a rubber washer on one side of the bracket and a flat rubber washer on the back side sandwiched with flat steel washers. This will totally isolate the bolt and washer from touching the metal. Use this method to mount the pump to the bracket AND the bracket to the support. This allows the bracket and pump to float and absorb the harmonic vibrations (the cause of most of the noise). The same method can be used for anything that can pass the harmonic vibrations to the chassis: exterior mounted fuel pumps, exhaust pipes and mufflers, etc.

Great thread.

Can you post a drawing with the dimensions on it? I see the pic of the bracket, but just was wondering the about the actual dimensions between the bolt holes, was it 3"X3" angle, etc.

quote Originally posted by rjblaze: Can you post a drawing with the dimensions on it? I see the pic of the bracket, but just was wondering the about the actual dimensions between the bolt holes, was it 3"X3" angle, etc.

After the swap meet weekend, I'll swing by Bob's and see if I can find the patterns he used and get some measurements off it.

So, it's been a while, how about an update?

Other than the rebuilt racks having more play in them than I like, it is working fine. I turn it on in the driveway/parking lots and off out on the road. Eventually, I will get around to installing an engine driven pump and see if I can get a 'tight' rack. Until then, it just gets driven nearly everyday like any other car I've ever owned. I was hoping it would end up with 'one finger' steering like the Caprice has, but even with the pump running, it takes a little effort to turn- probably about the same effort as my old Corvette.

quote Originally posted by Cooter: Other than the rebuilt racks having more play in them than I like, it is working fine. I turn it on in the driveway/parking lots and off out on the road. Eventually, I will get around to installing an engine driven pump and see if I can get a 'tight' rack. Until then, it just gets driven nearly everyday like any other car I've ever owned. I was hoping it would end up with 'one finger' steering like the Caprice has, but even with the pump running, it takes a little effort to turn- probably about the same effort as my old Corvette.

I'm having the same problems with racks "rebuilt" at Autozone. I returned mine and picked up another. I'll be puting it in the first weekend in July. Hopefully I'll have everything done before the 25th show. Seems like that would be a pain, turning it on and off. I used the electronics from the MR2 to handle all of that.

Cooter

Did you ever find the dimemsions for the bracket that RBlaze asked about? I would like to see a drawing also since what you have worked out fine.

quote Originally posted by Cooter: ...I was hoping it would end up with 'one finger' steering like the Caprice has, but even with the pump running, it takes a little effort to turn- probably about the same effort as my old Corvette.

When I drove it, I thought that it suited the car quite well.
I was thinking that it was a moderate improvement for an 88 (in addition to it being quite easy to turn while sitting still.)

And then Greg reminded me that his car is an 85.
Yeah. It works. Well.

As I have mentioned in the past I have a Link Racing power steering system on hand and I could reproduce the power steering brackets to fit the 2.8 if there is enough interest.

------------------
Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

quote Originally posted by Cooter: Originally posted by PaulJK: Things like this scare me. I'd be Really worried about the pump giving out and the steering becoming VERY HEAVY Right NOW (!). With the pump off, the steering effort is the same as it was without power assist because the rack ratio is the same as the Fiero was (3.25 turns +/-) The trunk pan had to be modified to clear the rack, so the spare will sit in the garage or in the rear cargo area. Bob had the mount off today and was supposed to take some more pictures of it for us. I'll check in a bit and see what he has done.

This is an interesting point- and a recent document I read that was being sold on e-bay (internal GM document regarding improvements for the '88 Fiero) specifically gives some nice information regarding the '88 Fiero and power steering (of special interest may be that from the sounds of it, we didn't get the 16:1 ratio on the WS6 cars BECAUSE they couldn't get the power steering bugs worked out):


DATE: November 16, 1987

SUBJECT: Power Steering Status

At a special meeting held on November 9, 1987, the following decisions were made regarding power steering:

1. Power steering will only be available on base cars

2. Power steering will not be available on the Formula of GT until sometime in the future when current problems are resolved.

3. The trial run in the assembly plant will continue as scheduled on 12-1-87. Ten base cars and four GT's will be built.

4. The trial run will be used to evaluate noise and performance

5. The base cars are saleable vehicles and cannot be driven more than 75 miles during testing prior to being shipped to the customer. The GT's are being purchased by Engineering for development work.

6. Final decision of go or no-go must be made by December 11, 1987.


The problem with the 16:1 ratio (available with the WS6 suspension, 6 cyl. only) is a bump feeling in the steering when making fast turns. This condition has come and gone over the past three years. The current configurations have been determined not to be commercial by Dave Barnhart, Peter Lupesca, and a few others including Saginaw. Development work to overcome this problem will continue so that power steering will be available on 6 cyl. cars sometime in the future.

Seven 19:1 ratio units (available on base cars only) were tested at MGF. Six were found salable with one unit being borderline. Saginaw stated that under their current manufacturing process they do not have the capability to maintain production with current tolerances on the spool valve. Widening of this tolerance is being investigated by Engineering. Hopefully we will see units in the trial run that are representative of their process and not units that were hand selected.

Since the meeting, Marketing has requested Engineering to re-evaluate the 19:1 ratio on the 6 cylinder. Their hopes are that even though this ratio is not as responsive, that it may be acceptable until the 16:1 ratio is available. A decision will be forthcoming, but not in time to impact the trial run.

rwl/rm

cc. R. Hassenzahl..................................................................Rod Wilson
W. Wartinbee......................................................................Planning Administrator

[This message has been edited by FieroFanatic13 (edited 06-27-2008).]

Any update on bracket dimensions or perhaps selling that bracket? I'm going to do a 3800sc swap and since it has a power steering pump... Has anyone done that yet?

-Brian

I am not ignoring y'all wanting the spec's on the mount. My friend Bob that did the fabrication for the mount lives pretty close to the school where I work. But since I am out for the summer, I have not had any reason to drive across town to pick up the first 'mock-up' bracket he made. When I get back to that end of town, I'll grab the mount and bring it home so you folks can have the info. I have not forgot...yet.

A "what's new?" BUMP

I had the same battery i picked it up cheap from a junkyard and it did the same thing.

Anyone else done this swap?

-Brian