quote Originally posted by Lou6t4gto: i HAVE BEEN ADVISED, iT cannot BE THE O2 SENSOR,because the engine is IN CLOSED LOOP. Cannot be the oil sender because there is 42 PSI at ALL times. anyone know anything about the IAC valve on the throttlebody? (has a 4 wire connector to it ?)

if it is cold it would be in open loop ..once it runs for a certain time and warms up up the it goes to closed loop and thats when the ECM looks for the O2 for proper fueling

Just spraying carb cleaner into an injector won't clean it. It should be professionally cleaned. There is a little filter inside of each injector. If that is clogged, then a little carb cleaner won't unplug it.

There is a "garage" way to clean an injector though. You spary the carb cleaner into it, apply voltage then blast compressed air through it backwards. Repeat 3 times and spray the carb cleaner into it going backwards too.

This will unplug the injectors but it is far from a real cleaning.


Before you do that, take a pin and poke it through one of the injector wires. Then have someone else start the car while you hold a voltage meter to the pin and the block. You should see it cycle a couple of times. If not, then you know you need to troubleshoot the electrical signal going to the injectors. If it is getting the signal, then either the injectors are probably still clogged or you may have some other fuel problem.

Take the little red cap of a can of WD 40. Fill it with gas and dump it into the throttle body with the plate open. Close the throttle and fire it off . If it runs about 2-3 seconds you still have a fuel problem. I am guessing also clogged injectors form sitting to long.

I had a fuel pump go out 1/2 block from my house once. Chevy Spectrum. A 40 MPG car. I walked home and got the wife and can of WD 40. Had the wife drive with me spraying down the carb throat and got it home . I was hanging on the fender.

You should be able to prop open the throttle plates some and use a squirt can of gas or WD or starting fluid. Don't put your face where a backfire will come back into your face. Have an assistant fire it off, but keep their foot off of the gas peddle. You spray into the throttle body. You just want to see if it will run for about 15 -20 seconds to eliminate all but the fuel system. Or as long as your spray lasts if you have oil pressure and coolant in the system. Then you can quit guessing at MAP, MAF, ING Mod, ECM's etc. You have tried all of these, but haven't eliminated any thing yet. Time to do so.
Good Luck
Joe Crawford
Texas

fuel pressure NEVER drops below 43 PSI

quote Originally posted by Lou6t4gto: it WILL RUN FOREVER spraying fuel into the intake ! the fuel IS NOT getting past the injectors, and it is at 43 PSI AT the injectors, never drops.

Time to check if the injectors are getting the signal or if they are still clogged. See my post above.

Lou, I don;t knwo if you have these, but this is for the 86, simple pics with pinouts.
the ecm pins:


ecm with high level circuits:




be sure that wire form the dist for the ref pulse is good from the module connector to the ecm. unplug both connectors, and on ohms scale check for less than 1 ohm from the ign module plug contact tot he ecm contact. a small paperclip makes a good probe.
I know this was mentioned before, but never saws a result. I tend to side with injector clogs, but you really need to verify that it is working electronically. I have to run out the door now, I'll think on some easy tests for you to try later.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doug85GT:

Just spraying carb cleaner into an injector won't clean it. It should be professionally cleaned. There is a little filter inside of each injector. If that is clogged, then a little carb cleaner won't unplug it.


QUOTE]

INDEED, get those things cleaned by a pro! Thye need to be firing when they are cleaned. I'm sure but I think the same pulse that makes th tach moves also des the injectors so it should be good.

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[IMG]



Trueleo.com/fiero.htm
RSpiderII@aol.com

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Time to check if the injectors are getting the signal or if they are still clogged. See my post above.

exactly ..a noid light will work. If the injectors are not getting pulses then its something to do with the ECM not grounding the injectors. As tjm4fun
mentioned, it could be a bad wire from the dist to the ecm or the connection of that circuit so that the ECM isn't getting a signal from the dist

If that tests good, as mentioned before, you need to test the injectors by using some carb cleaner or techron, applying pressure and voltage and physically see if the injectors open and spray ..

[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 07-19-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Lou6t4gto: I checked 3 of the plugs going to the injectors, they DO pulse the test light. haven't put the lid back on yet. WHAT size is the bolt holding the EGR Tube to the exaust ? lost one, & don't need a leak at this point. Thanks

Lou's been through the test for pulse. I think he has pulse at the injector plugs but I am not sure if his injectors are actually sparying fuel. From what he explains in previous pages, the car will start, run a few seconds and die. If he opens the throttle at all in the first 2 seconds, it dies. I am not exactly sure but the initial start up is controlled by the cold start injector. After a few seconds, the pulse to the cold start is switched off and the injectors take over. I think someone suggested to disconnect the cold start injector to see if it would start. I believe that his injectors are plugged solid.

Lou, do you have access to some spare injectors? I have some but I do not think they are any better than what you already have. I'll go dig in the box. If I can find them, you are welcome to em. I'll send you a PM if I can find them.

Pat

tHANKS, i'D SURE APPRECIATE IT. Is there any kind of Fiero magazine publication ? Thanks

quote Originally posted by tjm4fun: Lou, I don;t knwo if you have these, but this is for the 86, simple pics with pinouts. the ecm pins: ecm with high level circuits: be sure that wire form the dist for the ref pulse is good from the module connector to the ecm. unplug both connectors, and on ohms scale check for less than 1 ohm from the ign module plug contact tot he ecm contact. a small paperclip makes a good probe. I know this was mentioned before, but never saws a result. I tend to side with injector clogs, but you really need to verify that it is working electronically. I have to run out the door now, I'll think on some easy tests for you to try later.

would these happen to be for the 87 as well? i have similar ones for my 7730. a fiero copy is good as well. saving into archives on HD, thanks.

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1987 Fiero GT built by my brother, merlot566jka, 3500 LX9 from 06 Malibu, WOT-TECH.com 1280 grind stage 3 cam, LS6 valve springs, 1227730 ECM conversion, Darrel Morse solid aluminum cradle mounts, Truleo headers modified to fit the 3500, 36# inectors, 70mm 4.3 throttle body adapted to 3500 intake, ported heads, upper and lower intakes, lightly polished, tcemotorsports.com crank trigger wheel, CenterForce dual friction clutch, Flowtech Afterburner muffler, 2.5" piping, cat deleted, EGR deleted, SinisterPerformance tuning, C6 Corvette exhaust tips. projected to be 35 MPG with a guesstimate of 250 hp to the wheels

One thing i have also not seen if your not getting injector pulse there is no aftermarket alarm in the history of the car is there? Had a monte carlo that had an after market alarm and when the removed it they simplyed twisted wires back together over time the vibrated loose all sorts of wierd stuff went on. Just an idea if you dont have pulse. and i wouldnt even mess with using a dvom for voltage testing on the injector harness node lights make life so easy.

OK, I tore off the top Again ! when this is put together again, if it still does not run, I WILL for damn sure KNOW what it is NOT ! I cleaned the rail again, lines, removed & inspected the regulator, took EVERY INJECTOR, first I put KROIL penetrant into each intake, so if there was anything "sticking", put 35 PSI air pressure to it & fired them a dozen times to squirt the penetrant through, THEN put in fuel inj cleaner into the intake port of it, applied 35 PSI compressed air to it & fired it a few dozen times. repeated the proccess 5 times each. There is, posatively, absolutely fuel going in the inlet & spraying out the nozzle, there is NO WAY the injectors are plugged OR not firing. (IF the pulse is getting to them) well, now for sure I know it's NOT the injectors. Now tomorrow I can put the lid back on, & see if it'll run. I'm going to have a towel & a bucket handy for all the tears if it doesn't run !

quote Originally posted by Erik: Ok so no matter what it will only run for 2 seconds and then die? Right when it dies does the fuul pressure drop off?

I agree,did you do a fuel pressure test while the engine is running?
Edit:My Goof...it probubley wont stay running long enough to test that way.

[This message has been edited by James Bond 007 (edited 07-20-2008).]

Before it starts 43 PSI, cranking, 43PSI, running 43PSI, after it quits 43PSI.

Well now, NOW it's changed ! sinse pulling the rail, injectors & regulator,... where it held 43 just turning on & held it no matter what before,... NOW, it goes to 43 when I turn it on & almost immediately slowly starts dropping ! AND when I keep it running with the spray ether, the fuel pressure drops tp about 20 ! (no, the fuse isn't blown & the relay IS working. I'm getting about ready to put a match to it !

I had hoped that you fix your car this weekend so I could follow your fix. I also took off the fuel rail and everything looked good. I can get mine to idle a little if I pump the throttle very fast. Runs forever when shooting intake with carb cleaner. I am going to change out the fuel filter and O2 sensor. What the heck its not that much $$$

doesn't cost much for this & doesn't cost much for that, but it's adding up fast. getting to the point where a gallon of gas & a match doesn't cost much either !... I need to walk away & play with something else for awhile.

quote Originally posted by americasfuture2k: would these happen to be for the 87 as well? i have similar ones for my 7730. a fiero copy is good as well. saving into archives on HD, thanks.

I have the 86 versions as well, but not the 87, tho I believe they are the same for the 86 thru 88. only the prom is differrent. 85 v6 is differrent, and 84 is in a world of its own.

yea, gotta be the regulator being stuck. it's in good shape & I DID check ALL the injectors to be spraying AND shutting before they went back in. so.... I'll have to open it up & re-install the regulator again. where would I get NOID lights ? & how expensive are they ??? thanks

It has been posted that autozone, advance, and napa all carry them, as well as harbour fright.
COuldn;t find one on the autozone site, but found this on HF:
http://www.harborfreight.co...taf?Itemnumber=97959
20$ isn;t too bad...

Advanced & autozone just told me they could only be had from Snap On Or Mac ! shows what they know ! Thanks

I may have missed this in the thread.

Have you tried jumping power directly to the Fuel pump connection in the ALDL connector? Someone mentioned this earlier.

When you turn the key on the pump will run for 1.5-2 seconds. This will give you pressure at the Schraeder valve. If the ECM does not signal the pump to run and the Oil pressure switch is bad and does not signal the pump to run then the pressure will be gone in a flash and the engine quits.

If the engine starts and runs with the pump running full time then the problem must be in the ECM, or the wiring as I believe you tried a new ignition module.

Won't run even with the pump running full time !

Hey Lou. I finally got mine running last night. After diassembpling everything, and then rebuilding it all, it seems to run fine. Something was obviously loose somewhere. I removed all of the vacuum, and fuel injectors, and egr system.

Now on to door pins and dash electrical...

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Jay Brintnell
Southern Ontario Fiero Association
Yellow 85 Notchback(A.K.A. GodFearN)

It was "set aside while I redo the 4 cyl for my wife. I did order new injectors for it, so "soon", I will get back to it.

I searched and found this thread as my 88' formula is having the same troubles. It'll start, run for that second or two and then die. Sounds good and clean. I replaced the ign control module, cap, rotor, no difference. I ordered a rebuilt ECU from a local parts supplier and it should be here Monday or Tuesday. I have a feeling that is it. Signal being sent from the control module to the ECU but not being translated and sent to the injectors. I'll post here the update when my ECU arrives.

Mine turned out to be plugged injectors. it would start (from the fuel supplied by the cold start inj, then die). I replaced all the injectors & it runs fine. all due to bad gas & sitting 8 years.

I was beginning to wonder if you ever got it going! Good job, and lots learned!

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Jay Brintnell
Southern Ontario Fiero Association
Yellow 85 Notchback(A.K.A. GodFearN)

Hmm, bad injectors. I haven't pulled the top of the air plenum off yet. This Fiero has been sitting for a while itself, not too sure how long though. Probably a year give or take a couple of months. I might have just blown $100 on a rebuilt ECU if that's the case. Once it arrives I'll try it and if it doesn't work I'll go for injectors next and report back here. All the norms have been checked:

Good fuel pressure
Good spark
Good oil pressure at gauge
Fuel in the tank
Fuel filter replaced

Same thing that seems to have happened to some others is with mine. I don't have the option of knowing that it once ran other than from the PO who said it did and then stopped one day. It sounds great for that 2 seconds.

I've gone through the entire thread carefully and some have said injectors, ECU fixed it, Ign module etc so I figure I can't be too far away from a fix.

-Dan

cheap easy way to find out . get a can of spray ether,(with the long tip from wd40) have someone spray it into one of the vacuum ports on the intake WHILE you try to start it. if you can keep it running , by "tickling it" with the ether, the injectors are not injecting. I broke down & got NOID lights from harbor frieight ($9) money well spent.(you can check the cold start inj with the NOID lights also) the signal WAS getting to the injectors, therefore, it HAD to be them ! & it was. got a set of "almost new" off ebay for $40.