OK i am thinking about taking my fiero to be dyno tunned by the local GM tunning pro, and with the setup that i have i could copy and sell the bin file to offset the cost of tunning 700.00 (this is a veary good shop) i was wondering who would be interested in a pre-tuned file proven at 8-10psi?

no offence to darthfiero or sinnister performance but i realy need to Dyno-Tune my car and thats realy hard to do over E-Mail as darthfiero will tell you, but if you have a chance to go to darthfiero by all means DO i have nothing but good things to say about him.

the asking price would be $75.00

the way it would work is.

i would not send anyone the BIN-file untill a large amount of the origanal cost of the dyno tune would be covered by selling the bin,

then i would ask the pepole that want one to send a paypal on a certan day, and as soon as i recive all the payments then,

i would send out the bin-file all in the same day so no one is left waiting for there file after sending a payment,

Also if the reqired amount is not met then i would decline the payments and try to work this out agin.

the reason i do this is because, i need to make some of the money i will be spending on the dyno tune back, and if i sell to one person at a time somone could turn around and under sell me because they have only $75.00 dallars invested.

the closer your engine is to mine the better the bin file will work,
worst case senario? you would have to have the file finetuned for your mods but the bin file would already be veary close saving you tons of time and money on the dyno and the the hourly shop rate. (average dyno cost $125.00hr average shop rate $90.00hr) less than half the cost of one hour when dynotunning.

here are my specs so you may be abble to build or modify you current setup to fit these specs.
7730 ecm swap with knock sensor and 2bar map
30# injectors
stock fiero intake and TB
long tube headders
3.4l camaro swap ( stock internals )
T3/T4 V Band Turbocharger, Wheel Trim 60mm, Turbine Housing A/R 0.60, Compressor Housing A/R 0.48, 2" Inlet, 2.5" V-Band Outlet
air to air intercooler
no EGR but could be made to work with EGR by darthfiero.
as for getting the bin file into your ecm i sugest a moates ostrich and tunner-pro or have a chip burned by darthfiero.

please let me know also if i get more than 10 buyers i will begin to lower the price. just remember ALL buyers need to send the paypal before BIN-file is sold/sent to buyers.

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 10-06-2008).]

I highly doubt there are even 2 people on this forum with the exact same mods as you.

Sorry, you cant really sell dyno tunes.... from my experience, your tune will actually be farther off than a "calculated" base tune if someone else actually had the same setup as yours.

PCM programs that have been fine tuned often vary from engine to engine and parameters like gear ratio, vehicle weight and tire size also have a bearing. There are also tolerances with each engine that must be considered. Injector flow rate, fuel pressure and the type and route of CAI used can affect air flow and the tune. What works on one car may not work on another.
Since your tune is speed density based, accurate airflow modeling will need to be calculated and significant changes to the VE table will have to be made. The MAP vs RPM vs. VE table must be rescaled by a factor of 2 to work with vacuum AND boost and completely rebuilt. You must also add a 2 BAR MAP sensor to provide the right inputs. Constructing a VE table and making other changes on a program that was not originally designed to handle boost can take a long time to get right If your shop is run by experts they might be able to get it done in one day. In the case of the program that I did for my 3.4L P/R, it took months to do and I'm still tweaking the program a little here and there. While your "shareware" idea sounds good in theory it might fall short on practicality.

------------------
87GT - 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: PCM programs that have been fine tuned often vary from engine to engine and parameters like gear ratio, vehicle weight and tire size also have a bearing.

What a lot of people don't look at is temperature... If one shop dynos at 70 degrees and one at 80 degrees, the engine might run differently. The VE map could be dead nuts on, but if the temperature compensation isn't right, the tune is going to change as the temperature changes.

How many shops back out the temperature and humidity corrections to get a tune dialed in for STP, then tweak the temperature compensation for actual conditions?

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: Sorry, you cant really sell dyno tunes.... from my experience, your tune will actually be farther off than a "calculated" base tune if someone else actually had the same setup as yours.

I've also read there is some kind of legal conflict associated with it since GM owns the info in the chip to start with, in addition to the fact that it wouldn't be wise to have your name attached to something that is not EPA/CARB approved going into someone elses vehicle, even if you state, "for off road use only". Chalk it up to the cost of doing the swap, $725 in Dyno services, or $725 worth of tuning equipment to do it yourself which is about what I have invested.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 10-07-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: Chalk it up to the cost of doing the swap

Exactly. GM invests hundreds to thousands of engineer-hours to get an engine running correctly in a vehicle in the first place. You should expect to have to spend time getting yours running right, even after it's bolted in and plumbed.

[This message has been edited by Will (edited 10-07-2008).]

has any one tryed to use a bin tuned in another car?

How many turbo 3.4's are even on here,. To add to that, how many of them still need a tune, and how many of those are unable to do it themselves. And as already stated, one tune would definitely not work "almost perfectly" on two motors, even if they are closely modded.

yes i agree that every engine is differant, even from the factory. but if tou realy cant swap dyno tunes, then how does anyone sell turbo kits with new chips and warrenty the product? how is this differant?
im sorry but its seems like some of you are just trying to nagh-say.
if im wrong the PLEASE set me strait but what your saying doesent make much sence. is there any verifiable info on this subject that i could read?

quote Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt: has any one tryed to use a bin tuned in another car?

Yes. GM, Ford, Chrysler, Dodge.. ...

You can do it just like them. But you need to make sure it's *safe*. You're going to have to make it pig rich. Dial back on timing a lot. Ultimately you won't be getting others anywhere they can't get themselves. IMHO you don't need a dyno to do tuning. A stretch of empty road with varying throttle will work just the same. A hilly road makes it a lot better. Don't tune in lower gears, you want to spend some time in the cells that you're passing through. (If you don't have a safe place to do t his, certainly don't do it.) 1/4 mile track is good.

we have a mile of striaght road on my friends property and with a wide band o2 and his computer we turn turbo cars all the time...
i have seen two mustangs all the same on the same part of road with the same turbo kit same yearsimmilar milage and when we ran the second we tryed to save time with using the first ones settings. we had a hard hard time geting it started, let alone running good, this might be an extreme example but still be carfull

how do the stock bins differ from the tunned ones that alow them to be intechangable?

i belive (for the previsois set up i was the driver) that they have alot more retarded timing better informed people can correct me im just trying to help
im sorry for being a nay sayer as i know that me and my friend were making lots of money driving around his property in very fast cars.... and i know we charged less then a real dyno shop but, heres what you can do your in OR right? ill ask my friend about going down there and at least geting your car close ( as close as we can). i am near seattle and if we happen to be down there i dont think he will mind.

this tuning company says

A & A Corvette Performance

"You should be able to copy the tune from one car and put it in the other car.
Things should be pretty close."

i have sent sevral e-mail to tunning companys around the states i will post their responce here as soon as i get a e-mail from them.

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 10-08-2008).]

ok i mean i really might be wrong all i can say was that those two mustangs were off we might now have been told the whole truth about them they might have had a stuck injector or what ever.
i am not a proffessional dyno shop and know no where near as much

quote Originally posted by Bremertonfiero: i belive (for the previsois set up i was the driver) that they have alot more retarded timing better informed people can correct me im just trying to help im sorry for being a nay sayer as i know that me and my friend were making lots of money driving around his property in very fast cars.... and i know we charged less then a real dyno shop but, heres what you can do your in OR right? ill ask my friend about going down there and at least geting your car close ( as close as we can). i am near seattle and if we happen to be down there i dont think he will mind.

i thought you backed your claim well but it just doesent make any sence to me. maybe just adjusting the tables on the 2nd mustang dident fix some of the other problems he had with his bin file/car.
pepole that just say you cant do it and give BS reasons why are Nagh-saying.
you actuly at least discribed a event that happend to you.

lol you beat me to it lol

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 10-08-2008).]

well if you would like to take me up on me and my friend tuning your car close ill ask him if your not interested just let me know it wont hurt my feelings. i try not to hay say if i cant back it up with an actual event i know happend.

this was my main idea every week i see at least 2 threads about the 3.4l swap by members wanting to do the swap. well if they bought this bin and got a turbo $100-$200, injectors $100-$300, 7730ecm $50, knock and 2 bar MAP $75, and could get a turbo Y pipe some how( could be built by a local muffler shop.) they could have a turbo 3.4l that at least relitivly close to perfectly tunned for relitivly cheep.

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 10-08-2008).]

no i was saying tune your car so you spend less at the dyno shop

quote Originally posted by Bremertonfiero: well if you would like to take me up on me and my friend tuning your car close ill ask him if your not interested just let me know it wont hurt my feelings. i try not to hay say if i cant back it up with an actual event i know happend.

i might just take you up on that offer just so i can get the car to the dyno under its own power lol does your friend know Tunnerpro-RT?

if i spend less at the dyno then i will sell the bins for even less so yeah im all for it

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 10-08-2008).]

i would have to ask but im assuing hes asleep so ill call in the afternoon after school gets out. and i would have to c if he is gunna be down there any time in the near future and if he can drag me (or just have you drive)

If identical engines required different tunes, wouldn't that put the manufacturers in a hole doing custom tunes on every car that goes out the door? Which is why if the engines are identical and if the tune was right for one it would certainly be right for another. Or so close as to be worth the money.

idk new engines are in very simmilar condition with all being consitered and factory settins tend to be "saffer" (less ping prone) then not factory ones again correct me i may be wrong

quote Originally posted by ICouldaBeenAV8: If identical engines required different tunes, wouldn't that put the manufacturers in a hole doing custom tunes on every car that goes out the door? Which is why if the engines are identical and if the tune was right for one it would certainly be right for another. Or so close as to be worth the money.

totaly what im saying and if every engine reqired a custom tune you would have to get your car custom tuned every time you had to replace the ECU and as we all know you dont have to.

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 10-08-2008).]

hay i dont know im not a dyno shop
i was just trying to make what every one says a logical possiblity

quote Originally posted by Bremertonfiero: i would have to ask but im assuing hes asleep so ill call in the afternoon after school gets out. and i would have to c if he is gunna be down there any time in the near future and if he can drag me (or just have you drive)

that would be cool it would have to be on a week end cause i have college till 5pm every week day

yeah but i do know that you can tune it to get more power but it incresses the chance of pinging (retard timing) and with hondas you can get like 3 horse just by changing the timing... from the "safe" factory settings

is there any one that would want this tunned bin file for a 3.4l turbo? that was the main question.
if you are just letin me know its not a comitment to buy to say your interested. but it will help me gauge if this is even worth the trubble.

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 10-08-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Will: What a lot of people don't look at is temperature... If one shop dynos at 70 degrees and one at 80 degrees, the engine might run differently. The VE map could be dead nuts on, but if the temperature compensation isn't right, the tune is going to change as the temperature changes. How many shops back out the temperature and humidity corrections to get a tune dialed in for STP, then tweak the temperature compensation for actual conditions?

quote Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt: if this was the case then your car wouldent run as soon as the wether changed. please explain

GM gets the temperature compensation right.

here is what another tunning company says.


LT1Swap.Com

"Not sure which engine you have, but you should be able to swap the PCM over to new vehicle, tuning should be same for light or heavy vehicle, maybe small differences for timing, but should be pretty close."

quote Originally posted by Will: GM gets the temperature compensation right.

quote Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt: and a $700 dyno tune woudent get the temp correct?? i think that is only the case if they dont know what there doing. that wouldent be the case here. im not having joe honda tune this im having a very well known GM ONLY tuning shop do the tune.

Here's a scenario for you:

You build your turbo car
You take turbo car to tuner
Tuner runs turbo car on dyno
Turbo car has mixture ratio issues
Tuner adjusts VE table

That seems like a perfectly reasonable way to run things, right? If you asked him to back the temperature correction out of the data logs before adjusting the VE table, he'd probably look at you like you just walked down the gangplank from the mothership.

Temperature compensation is just NOT DONE in the dyno shop community.

So GM tunes at STP. A dyno shop tunes at whatever the temp/humidity/baro is that day. The temp curve is still set up as though the VE tables were dialed in at STP. The temp curve is then set incorrectly realtive to the non-STP atmospheric conditions that were going on in the tuning shop.

quote Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt: and a $700 dyno tune woudent get the temp correct?? i think that is only the case if they dont know what there doing. that wouldent be the case here. im not having joe honda tune this im having a very well known GM ONLY tuning shop do the tune.

Just go get it tuned and be done with it. After you test drive it and can assure everyone you are satisfied with the results I'm sure someone will buy in. As for how long it takes me to do it myself that's not a concern for me, the ability to tune any change I make to it after I finish; upgraded turbos, upgraded exhaust, camshaft change, engine change, etc, is worth not having to pay $700 again for someone else to tune it.