Hey Everyone,

I came up with an idea, and I'd like to get your opinions on it. It's a design for the Fiero coolant system which eliminates the radiator. Basically, the coolant would be cooled in a similar method to how computer processors are cooled. After my brief explanation, you'll see a basic image that shows the outline.

First, the existing aluminum coolant tubes would be outfitted with heat-sink fins, because aluminum is already an excellent heat conductor. Then, they would be moved to inside the rocker panels. The rocker panels will most likely be custom made to house the pipes. From there, the rocker panels would be tied into the front air dam, essentially creating air flow ducts the full length of the coolant tubes. Near the front, there would be two small squirrel cage fans mounted at an angle into the rocker panels, but with an input to the panels that is smaller. This way, when the car is not moving, the squirrel fans would turn on via the same electronics that currently turn on the radiator fan, and since the inlet from them is smaller, it would create a venturi effect inside the rocker panel ducts, sucking more air from the front along with the air being pushed by the fans themselves. The outlet for that air can be pushed out the rear somewhere past the engine, so the heat gets dissipated away from the engine.
In operation, the coolant would flow normally up one pipe as it does now, but in the front of the car, there would be no radiator; only a pipe directly linking the two coolant pipes. The coolant flows across, then back down the other side of the car to return to the engine. I don't have any solid calculations, but from a rough numbers crunch, this would provide more heat dissipating surface area than the stock radiator, and it wouldn't cause air to jam up front as it does now.

Forseen Advantages:
- Larger cooling surface area
- Less weight (I'm guessing about 20-30lbs weight loss including radiator, fan, and coolant)
- Less power needed to run the two small fans vs the large radiator fan (I'm pretty sure it would be less...)
- No more air pockets in the cooling system due to two fill points
- No maintenance/replacement of a corroded radiator (the endcaps are plastic, which can be a weak point)
- Entire system is enclosed in the chassis & body panels, so no flying rock or oil change jack damage (because the jack would damage the rocker panels first, which means they'd be paying for it anyway )
- No more hot air forcefully jammed at the front of the vehicle

Forseen Disadvantages:
- Less total coolant, so a leak would mean quicker overheating

Please let me know what you guys think, and if any of you have extra pipes laying around and decide to test it with some simple ductwork, let me know what your tests conclude.
My thoughts for a simple test run would be to hand make some fins from maybe soda or beer cans, and clamp them to the pipes. Take that assembly and slide it into a larger pvc pipe about the length of the coolant tubes, hook up some fans, and run some heated water through it with a thermometer at each end, and see what the temp difference is. Anyone up for it? I'll be conducting my own test also... It'll be interesting to have several varied tests if any of you want to participate.

Here's my idea in an image:

Making the heat sink tubes would be a super pain in the ass, and they would be stupidly large, and you cant tuck them up any higher.

They are stainless not alum btw.

I don't think it would work. the pipes are steel, not aluminum first of all. Second, the air from the fans would not cool all the fins. the ones way downwind from the fan would get little to no cooling effect.

For some reason, I thought they were aluminum.... well, stainless is even better. That means the fins can be soldered or tigged much easier.
Sorry guys, I'm a dreamer... I'll try it out and let you know how it turns out (with pics).

in the front where you show the tube striaght bend in int loops and run a fan over it

I am guessing this isn't going to work... I am going to guess an engineer will chime in but I don't think you have enough exposed surface area for the air to flow over for proper cooling. There isn't enough room to box in or even put fins on the cooling pipes.

time for an air cooled engine!

J.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: I am guessing this isn't going to work... I am going to guess an engineer will chime in but I don't think you have enough exposed surface area for the air to flow over for proper cooling. There isn't enough room to box in or even put fins on the cooling pipes. time for an air cooled engine! J.

I really wish an engineer would chime in.... Because I'm just a computer programmer, but knowing how processors are cooled, and having done a LOT of overclocking and thus mega heat dissipation, I'm pretty sure this would work, but I would like to hear an engineer's opinion if there are any here....

I think you're solving a problem that doest exsist.

1: The Fiero radiator has plenty of cooling surface, any more isnt going to help as the thermostat is just going to stay shut to maintain 195*. The stock radiator is sufficient for a turbo 3.4DOHC or a 3.8SC from personal experience (on onriginal radiators at that) and much more from what I hear.

The radiator doesnt weigh much, nor does the fan. The fan would be offset by the 2 fans you are adding, the radiator weight would probably be just a little more than all the fins you are adding. The coolant weight would be a gain, but only 10lbs at most (which would be 1.2 gallons.

The radiator fan doesnt draw that much power, by the 1 amp per inch rule, probably less than 15a when its running, which it only does when you are sitting or going slow enough to prevent sufficient airflow. You would have 2 fans pulling maybe 5 amps each, both having to run every second the car was on, that comes out to a ton more power usage when you consider very often the radiator fan never even comes on during normal operation.

The air pockets are a legitamate concern, but personally, I only open my cooling system once every several years, its not a weekly occurance where its a huge hassle and time waster.

The endcaps on the radiator are only a weakpoint if you let it freeze, Ive yet to have an issue with any of the 8 fieros Ive had. But there is something to be said for removing the radiator that could potentially clog up. But again, this is a once in a cars lifetime occurance, and its not that hard to replace. Cost\benefit just doesnt pan out.

Again, Ive personally never had an issue with a damaged radiator in any car, from road debris. Its possible, but its not a common enough occurance to warrant redesigning the whole thing. As far as crushed coolant tubes, those are an issue, but can be avoided by just telling the shop how to lift the car, or you could stick a piece of metal if you really were worried about it.


I think its a neat idea, and a plausable design, but I think the problem you're trying to solve largely doesnt exist, and definitely doesnt warrant the cost and time of such an elaborate plan.

If you really wanted to do something, which again isnt warranted, but you could mount two smaller radiators under the decklid grills, put on side scoops, duct the air to them, and strap some small fans to the bottom. That would be a much simpler and far less invasive solution, with off the shelf parts at that, but again, I just dont see the benefit outweighing the cost.

Not much of a problem to factor in the heater core?
Use the engine exhaust to create neg. pressure scavenging to increase flow through these 'stupid' large
rocker panels? I've yet to see a Fiero w/"Tijuana kick stands".The outside dia. of these heat exchangers
would probably end up being 31/2-4" in dia..

It's a neat concept, but I think physics is going to thwart your efforts.

Norm

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: I think you're solving a problem that doest exsist. 1: The Fiero radiator has plenty of cooling surface, any more isnt going to help as the thermostat is just going to stay shut to maintain 195*. The stock radiator is sufficient for a turbo 3.4DOHC or a 3.8SC from personal experience (on onriginal radiators at that) and much more from what I hear. The radiator doesnt weigh much, nor does the fan. The fan would be offset by the 2 fans you are adding, the radiator weight would probably be just a little more than all the fins you are adding. The coolant weight would be a gain, but only 10lbs at most (which would be 1.2 gallons. The radiator fan doesnt draw that much power, by the 1 amp per inch rule, probably less than 15a when its running, which it only does when you are sitting or going slow enough to prevent sufficient airflow. You would have 2 fans pulling maybe 5 amps each, both having to run every second the car was on, that comes out to a ton more power usage when you consider very often the radiator fan never even comes on during normal operation. The air pockets are a legitamate concern, but personally, I only open my cooling system once every several years, its not a weekly occurance where its a huge hassle and time waster. The endcaps on the radiator are only a weakpoint if you let it freeze, Ive yet to have an issue with any of the 8 fieros Ive had. But there is something to be said for removing the radiator that could potentially clog up. But again, this is a once in a cars lifetime occurance, and its not that hard to replace. Cost\benefit just doesnt pan out. Again, Ive personally never had an issue with a damaged radiator in any car, from road debris. Its possible, but its not a common enough occurance to warrant redesigning the whole thing. As far as crushed coolant tubes, those are an issue, but can be avoided by just telling the shop how to lift the car, or you could stick a piece of metal if you really were worried about it. I think its a neat idea, and a plausable design, but I think the problem you're trying to solve largely doesnt exist, and definitely doesnt warrant the cost and time of such an elaborate plan. If you really wanted to do something, which again isnt warranted, but you could mount two smaller radiators under the decklid grills, put on side scoops, duct the air to them, and strap some small fans to the bottom. That would be a much simpler and far less invasive solution, with off the shelf parts at that, but again, I just dont see the benefit outweighing the cost.

Thanks so much for your input; I really appreciate it.
The reason for this isn't so much of solving an existing problem or issue as much as it is a new idea. The pros/cons were simply what I could see, and listed because I figured they would arise in conversation.
One minor point though, the small fans wouldn't run continuously; they would be on the same circuit as the stock fan is, and the air flow from forward motion of the vehicle would remain, just ducted down the sides to flow over the fins.

In any case, the fins I visualized, in case any of you are wondering, were something along these lines, with the fan removed, of course, and the pipes shoved in the center:





Thanks again for your input.

Those are what . . . .$30.00 a pop, . . . and you'd need like 30 of 'em?

Norm

quote Originally posted by fieroboom: For some reason, I thought they were aluminum.... well, stainless is even better. That means the fins can be soldered or tigged much easier. Sorry guys, I'm a dreamer... I'll try it out and let you know how it turns out (with pics).

Stainless steel is worse, because it has a terrible thermal conductivity. Stainless steel conducts heat at a rate approximately 1/17 as much as aluminum. The heat in the coolant will have to be conducted through the walls of the stainless steel pipes on its way to the cooling fins. This will severely restrict the cooling capacity of your design.

Second of all, I don't think your squirrel-cage fans will work as planned. When the car is at a standstill, the air being pushed by the fans will take the path of least resistance, i.e. the open ducts at the front. The end result will be little to no airflow through the rocker panels.

Another idea would be to put the fans on the rear ends of the rocker panels, with the outlets aimed out the side of the car. This would allow the fan to pull air through the enclosure. And when the car is in motion, the combination of air pressure at the front duct and the Venturi effect at the fan outlet (caused by air rushing along the side of the car body) should generate some airflow.

quote Originally posted by gt88norm: Those are what . . . .$30.00 a pop, . . . and you'd need like 30 of 'em? Norm

I doubt you'd need 30. The smaller of them is 2.165 in (55mm) O.D. and they cost $10.99 ea with the fan in them, if bought singularly:
http://www.fadfusion.com/se...m_number=10021000039
I'm sure they could be had in bulk for less. I just sent an email to Wakefield Engineering to see what they would cost in bulk.

Are there any people here who have a positive comment, or think it might work? I figured the input would be mostly negative, but I'd like to see some positive if there is any. Thanks

Just for giggles heres here's some of the rough engineering:

Lets say for steady state cruising you burn 2 gallons per hour (apprx 25 mpg ). Gasoline energy input is 240,000 btu/hr, 20% goes to moving the vehicle the rest goes out the exhaust and coolant, say 1/2 for each. This means 96,000 btu to be cooled by the radiator. A quick look at references finds for turbulent water flow in a air cooled tube heat transfer is 1260 btu per square foot per degree F. (I haven't found the transfer coeficient for finned air cooled tube). 16 feet of 1 1/4 inch tube (approx size of the coolant pipe) yields just over 5 square feet of surface area. For a 20 degree temperature differential (20 x 5 x 1260) = 126,000 btu/hr.
So maybe, what you are proposing is making a long radiator instead of square. Except for a couple of gotchas: the transfer is for clean tubes, corrosion or scaling reduces transfer (This caused problems with the Chevy Vega aluminum engine as the heat loss design didn't include a corrosion factor,); Coolant at a 50/50 mix holds less heat than plain water. You will need to include extra cooling capacity for peak power outputs (acceleration).
It's probable that you can find some extruded finned aluminum tubing instead of welding fins on the tubes (It may take a couple of hundred feet of welds. )
Other that builiding this just because you can I don't see any advantages to making a more complex system.

Calculate the fin surface area on a stock Fiero radiator and the fin surface area on your water pipes and see if they're anywhere close. My guess is they aren't.

I'm also a dreamer, but my dreams go in a different directions. I think your idea may work, w/ good engineering, but I'm putting my time into designing a way to use the wasted energy rather than designing another way to get rid of it.

Thumbs up if you get this to work.

I agree that attaching all those fins would be a real pita. Also, consider redesigning your rockers asthetically to make room for more stuff inside. You could, for instance, cut out the existing structural steel underneath the plastic covers and form new structural rockers that are also aesthetic. This would get rid of the wasted space that currently beneath the rocker plastic. If you have an aero, your even better set.

-Michael

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"A guy know's he's in love when he loses interest in his car for a few days." -Tim Allen

He who dies with the most toys... still dies.


Check out my restoration!

try it and see .whats to lose?

Might be an interesting project.

How about this as an idea for "Plan B"?
Do what Porsche did to conserve maximum trunk space up front. Could you imagine how big a front Fiero trunk could be?


btw. I guess even Porsche fans love to tweak their radiators:
http://www.bombaydigital.co...r/projects/radiator/

or move the radiators closer to the engine, (and add a widebody in the process. )

quote Originally posted by Fierology: Another advantage of your system, you'd gain lots of storage space under the hood. I think that's the best advantage of your system. Your using space more efficiently.

I didn't mention that in the pros??? Hell, that was one of my main reasons!
I actually thought of this when I looked at my friend's snowmobile. Some of the liquid cooled models have heat exchangers mounted underneath the foot rails which are somewhat finned, and occasionally make contact with the snow.
Anyway, the exact cooling fins I had in mind are pictured below. I couldn't post it yesterday because it was at home and I was at work, but lastnight I took some pics of a Cooler Master heatsink I have which I dismantled, and here it is:







The fins are 1.75 inches wide, and protrude 1.0625 inches from the center. There are 72 fins (give or take a fin, I could've mis-counted), giving me a single-sided surface area of about 133.88 square inches, almost a square foot. If you double that, accounting for each side of each fin, that's 267.75 square inches, or 1.86 square feet. I'm not entirely sure how efficient the overall fin will be, so I'm unsure if I can solidly count on 1.86 square feet of heat dissipating surface area.
I forgot to take measurements of my radiator for comparison lastnight, and once again, I'm at work, so no comparison data. I really like the last few comments and ideas; they're great!
If anyone is at home reading this, and wants to post some rough measurements and estimated number of fins in their stock radiator, I could start crunching some numbers and get an idea of how close I can get.

quote Originally posted by fieroboom: I actually thought of this when I looked at my friend's snowmobile. Some of the liquid cooled models have heat exchangers mounted underneath the foot rails which are somewhat finned, and occasionally make contact with the snow.

The important thing to remember about the snowmobile is they are only used below freezing. I wonder how well those cooling fins would work on a 100* day.

quote Originally posted by TONY_C: The important thing to remember about the snowmobile is they are only used below freezing. I wonder how well those cooling fins would work on a 100* day.

Considering the differences in engine size, design layout, etc, this is somewhat of a moot point, but snowmobiles are actually quite often ridden during the summer. In fact, if you google 'snowmobile ride summer', the first result is a youtube video of a guy riding his wheel-equipped sled in his back yard. But I digress. What I should've said was the idea for the location of the cooling fins came from looking at a snowmobile... I should have some real measurements tomorrow, and I'm trying to get my hands on some more heat sinks.
To a degree, I agree with some of the posts stating that the effort isn't worth the savings, but the most effort will be put into the designing and testing. However, once (if) I get a layout that works, I'd like to be able to incorporate it as a bolt-on application as much as possible, such as pop out your existing rocker panels, and bolt new ones on with the pipes pre-housed inside them. And with the incorporation of a core charge for the coolant pipes, the price wouldn't be quite so steep considering the old ones could be cleaned and worked into a new set of panels. But then there's the cost of painting the new panels.
Coolant tubes @ $400/set from The Fiero Store, it's not a mod I'd want to mess up, even once, and even then, a great design would still be hampered by $600 or more price tag when it's all said and done, if someone just wanted a new set outright.
http://www.fierostore.com/P...rowse.aspx?d=140&p=1
So yes, there are a lot of roadblocks to get around, but only the end result will determine pursuit of production.
Alas, too many ideas, not enough time....

I think this is a neat idea. Why? Because it is different thinking. Will it work in a practical sense? Not really.

The main problem is that you are running your cooling flow (the air) axially down the length of the tubes. So the first heat sink gets the cool air over it and the next one gets heated air. By the time the air flows any appreciable distance down the coolant pipe it has picked up so much heat that you no longer have a temperature difference to cool with. You could make it work by having air inlets and outlets all along the length of the rocker, but this is getting less practical.

The other problem I see is the heat soak when you shut down the engine. You still have coolant at 200 degress (give or take) and that heat is going to dissipate out of the coolant pipe and heat up the rockers. You would have to insulate them or you could keep the fan running for a while.

You may also have a problem with the whole thing plugging up with debris thrown in from the front tires. A radiator is in a relatively clean area as far as road debris goes. Look at how dirty the front of the rocker area gets. You might get a lot of mud caked on the system in a short order, drastically reducing the cooling effectiveness.

Really don't think it is worth mocking up and trying, but I'm sure you'll have some fun with it if you do.

Rick

Snowmobiles need snow(water) to cool. You can overheat them even at temps below freezing if you don't have snow hitting the cooling fins. I have seen this my snowmobile. That is why riding on ice isn't good, as you don't kick up the snow to cool the fins.

There are fan cooled snowmobiles and maybe this is what you see running in the summer... but this is not the environment they were built for.

J.

quote Originally posted by fieroboom: Forseen Advantages: - Larger cooling surface area - Less weight (I'm guessing about 20-30lbs weight loss including radiator, fan, and coolant) - Less power needed to run the two small fans vs the large radiator fan (I'm pretty sure it would be less...) - No more air pockets in the cooling system due to two fill points - No maintenance/replacement of a corroded radiator (the endcaps are plastic, which can be a weak point) - Entire system is enclosed in the chassis & body panels, so no flying rock or oil change jack damage (because the jack would damage the rocker panels first, which means they'd be paying for it anyway ) - No more hot air forcefully jammed at the front of the vehicle Forseen Disadvantages: - Less total coolant, so a leak would mean quicker overheating

Could work, but a lot of engineering to gain the advantages (which can be accomplished using simpler methods).

Biggest gain would be front trunk space.
Weight saving, well that would affect the front to rear weight ratio as little as it may be (is that really an improvement?)
Air pockets - move the over fill bottle to the rear - problem solved.

Another issue I can see is that the cooling fines near the back will not be very effective as the hot air from the front would travel down the length of the tube to the rear and thus reducing thier cooling capacity.

Should be no problem in getting it to work 'if' you get enough surface area - but I don't really think the work involved really warrents any gain in trunk space. (you would still have the separation between the where the rad is now and the tire as this is part of the structural strength in the front - so if you cut this out you would still have to find a way to tie the front end back together).

...anyways, nevers hurts to dream...

quote Originally posted by fieroboom: I really wish an engineer would chime in....

Why hello!

There are many extrusions that you could use for this concept. Basically all it would require is cutting off the fins at the hose junctions.

The problem though, is that a stock radiator is about 1-2" thick. What you're proposing is basically a 8' thick radiator. I think it could work, but not in the sense you have it drawn... basically you would need to get air flowing perpendicularly vs parallel to the coolant tubes. It would be expensive. You could probably end up spending a grand easily... It would be neat to try on a new car design, but you won't really be gaining anything on a fiero. You can't shrink the nose to make it sleeker... There's probably a weight dis-advantage...

while it doesn't sound practical, ill will say 'kudo's' for thinking of something new.... who knows.. you may have started something that may become a reality in 10 years etc.. "If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it " - Albert Einstien

why... its got the same concept as a radiator? just usually a radiator is flat and made as one big rectangle
air passing over the cooling vanes> its still liquid cooling.
just add a bigger radiator or double them up and have splicing in the coolant tubes.
sorry just a little ranting...
anyway they make radiators that are long and slender but i dont know if they make tube radiators..
its a neat space saver but where does the heat leave?

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Why hello! <snip> It would be neat to try on a new car design, but you won't really be gaining anything on a fiero. <snip>

That's pretty funny, because I have designed and drawn a new 'concept body' (if you wish to call it that) for my Fiero, and this radiator concept was something I wanted to incorporate. I love uniqueness, and there's nothing I hate more than driving a car that everyone else has. This is the simple reason I've owned 10 Fieros thus far. After seeing all of the modifications people have done to their Fieros, I wanted to take my '85 SE that's been sitting for about 12 years, and give it completely new life. Along with designing the body, I kept thinking of other things to do, I guess because inspiration begets inspiration...
I'm really surprised at the amount of positive individuals on this forum; thanks. I really expected all of the responses to be exactly like the first few, except with worsening ridicule, but I'm pleasantly surprised!

quote Originally posted by kawana: while it doesn't sound practical, ill will say 'kudo's' for thinking of something new.... who knows.. you may have started something that may become a reality in 10 years etc.. "If at first, the idea is not absurd, then there is no hope for it " - Albert Einstien

Thanks for the kudos; that's great inspiration. I'm going to at least give it a try; after all, I only have dollars to lose!

quote Originally posted by couldahadaV8: I think this is a neat idea. Why? Because it is different thinking. Will it work in a practical sense? Not really. <snip> You may also have a problem with the whole thing plugging up with debris thrown in from the front tires. A radiator is in a relatively clean area as far as road debris goes. Look at how dirty the front of the rocker area gets. You might get a lot of mud caked on the system in a short order, drastically reducing the cooling effectiveness. <snip> Rick

Evidently I failed to mention in my original synopsis that the rocker panels would be ducted to begin at the front air dam, in the same general area as the stock radiator. Sorry about that.

Well, I have a lot to think about now; again, thanks so much for the input. I will be at least conducting minimal testing on this design, even if it's no more than pipe with fins shoved in a PVC pipe with a fan at one end, just to see if the concept is even plausible. As soon as I can get my hands on some heat sinks and get it thrown together, I'll test it and post the results.
Thanks again, and keep bringing comments so it's not a dead thread when I post test results!

Interesting and creative idea but trying to reinvent the wheel doesn't seem practical. A radiator is just that, a heat exchanger that radiates heat away due to an available, fast moving and constant flow of cool outside air through it. If your method of cooling worked; wouldn't the automakers have adapted it by now?

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87GT - 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

The automakers don't do lots of things that would make cars better. Engineering can be really expensive, and new types of pieces then have to be designed instead of using standard style or even generic pieces. It is often more practical for the DIYer to engineer and manufacture something before it is practical for a car manufacturer, simply because the DIYer doesn't have to make a profit. The only people he has to make happy are himself and his wife.

-Michael

I am late, but I read the whole thing (I think...kinda just skimmed some of the responses). Interesting concept. Lotta custom work involved....but that is why we call a Fiero a hobby car.

I think you are overlooking one thing here. You seem to have solved the problem of surface area for AIR....but not the surface are of the COOLANT that the radiator provides. Those small thin cores provide that as well. You need that to actually transfer the heat of the coolant to the metal in order for the air surface area to be effective.

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: Again, Ive personally never had an issue with a damaged radiator in any car, from road debris. Its possible, but its not a common enough occurance to warrant redesigning the whole thing.

Although you're correct, the instances are few and far between, one tends to view things a little different due to experiences



That's my 2nd grill, tranny cooler, and coolant radiator on my '88 DeVille, both due to road debris, and of the 10 Fieros I've owned, 2 of them suffered radiator road debris damage. Just thought I'd throw that in there.

quote Originally posted by fieroboom: In other words, to overall system would basically become 4-4ft lengths of duct-enclosed finned tubing instead of 2-8ft long ones.

Just FYI, the rocker panels are about 5 feet long. You'll need some space for the ducting, fans, etc. So you may have about 4 feet of usable space in each rocker panel. And if you try to fit something 8 feet long underneath the car, it'll either protrude into the engine bay or the front compartment... or both.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 11-13-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: Just FYI, the rocker panels are about 5 feet long. You'll need some space for the ducting, fans, etc. So you may have about 4 feet of usable space in each rocker panel. And if you try to fit something 8 feet long underneath the car, it'll either protrude into the engine bay or the front compartment... or both.

8ft was a figure quoted earlier in the topic, so I used it in my example... I haven't actually measured the length yet, but thank you, that's important to know. Also, I fully intend for it to extend into the front compartment. All together, as a rough guess only, I imagine the ducting and usable pipe length would be about 7ft per side, at least.

Don't give upon this idea. I love it, even if it's not as practical as I would like to see it. A big block 455 pontiac in the rear is not practical either. Nor a front small block chevy, and yet both have been done. In brainstorming sessions, even the most outlandish ideas are not thrown out until 1/2 way down the process. These "wild" ideas often spawn the "good" ones. Keep up the good work and plug away. The cost would be the only reason to go a different route. How about copper finned pipes as in the heating industry? How about a hybred system using Porche radiators in conjuction to get the cooling needed?

quote Originally posted by wftb: try it and see .whats to lose?

An engine.

quote Originally posted by TONY_C: I don't think it would work. the pipes are steel, not aluminum first of all. Second, the air from the fans would not cool all the fins. the ones way downwind from the fan would get little to no cooling effect.

That right now is your biggest obstacle. The simplest heat transfer equation is Q=m*c*delta T. In other words, the amount of heat transfer depends on the difference in temperature between the system you're cooling and the surrounding temperatures. While you have good cooling to start, at the end your heat transfer greatly reduces. If you could get the air to somehow hit it crosswise, you might get some good cooling, but then you again have to deal with the fact that the tube is stainless and that you have a massive cross section of flow, vs that of what is seen in the radiator. I wouldn't say scrap the idea, I just think that you are going to have come up with some more ideas. See if you can find a heat transfer textbook or handbook. It will help you to come up with ideas that will work have greater probability for success. Good luck.