Ok, found the right mix of stuff for the tubing... and it's actually a little cheaper.

- Copper Tube (only choice)
- Aluminum Fins
- L-Footed attached fins (withstands up to 450^oF)

Note the estimated tube weight is about 10.5 lbs. I'm interested to see how that compares to the current radiator & stock coolant tubes.
I over-estimated @ 6.5 ft with 3" of bare tube to connect to at the ends on purpose...



Edited to perform teh page-owning dance... (yes, I said teh)

[This message has been edited by fieroboom (edited 12-10-2008).]

they're longitudinally finned, right? I noticed the emblem isn't, not that the emblem actually means anything.

quote Originally posted by Fierology: they're longitudinally finned, right? I noticed the emblem isn't, not that the emblem actually means anything.

No, a few posts ago I noted that the supplier ALCO wanted $2,500 for 4 longitudinally finned tubes, so I told him where he could go and the quickest way to get there. I also kinda scrapped that idea after seeing all the user input, and have gone more toward a perpendicular airflow design, which these axially finned tubes would be perfect for.

Before spending the money and hacking up a Fiero.... why not make an appointment with a local college/university professor. Maybe they can help out with the engineering on this. Heck, maybe this would be a project for one of his/her classes.... I hate to see you spend all this money and not have a product you are happy with.

J.

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Before spending the money and hacking up a Fiero.... why not make an appointment with a local college/university professor. Maybe they can help out with the engineering on this. Heck, maybe this would be a project for one of his/her classes.... I hate to see you spend all this money and not have a product you are happy with. J.

HA! And let some group of college kids steal my thunder?? No way! It might take a while, but I will find a way to test it, and the money spent is my own problem, and I'm sure I'll be kicking my own a$$ later, but that's what makes it fun!

bump. anything new? this is very interesting!

I love the concept but I'm not entirely convinced by the practicality. For the benefit of having a bit more room to carry nonsense you don't need (and not terrifyingly much room at that, maybe one bag?) you will be putting your engine's cooling at the mercy of some thin (and soft) copper lines under the car? Crazy man, crazy!

Hey, if it works, I'll buy you a beer... I just don't feel entirely convinced. Use the example of PC cooling again for a sec. Notice how all the overclocking guys start with badass air coolers but eventually end up at water cooling? There's a few passive water rigs out there - one uses a finned alloy cooling tower (Zalman Reserator). The others perform just as much cooling using 120mm radiators... and are typically far more effective at heat transfer too.

Call me unadventurous and a noob etc, but I'm not certain that the drawbacks and potential failures from moving away from the known good factory cooling setup vindicate the extra space to carry just a little more crap in the front...

I was reading through a copy of Gary Witzenburg's Book "Fiero - Pontiac's Pontent Mid-Engine Sports Car" that I got for Christmas, and stumbled across something interesting:

quote The cooling system, with its angled radiator in the nose and long pipes connecting it to the engine, presented another packaging challenge. Even figuring out a convenient way to fill the cooling system was tough. "For a while there," says Jay (Wetzel), "we thought maybe we didn't need a radiator at all. We considered just running a tube with fins on it all the way up from the engine compartment to the front cradle and back. But we soon found out that wasn't a possibility."

Obviously, GM engineers found significant drawbacks to this idea. Don't get discouraged, I think it would be a brilliant accomplishment if you can get it to work.

There are other ways to also help with cooling. You could mount a separate oil cooler and relocate the filter. Hell add two filters for that matter (more cooling surface). Fin the oil pan and install cooling tubes in the bottom of the pan. Make sure you have all the vents you can have and a few cooling fans. You could use auxilary fans for when parked in traffic and have accuators slightly lift the rear deck lid automaticly when at a certain temp. The biggest problems are going to occure at idle so thats what needs to be adressed. Wrap that exhaust! Twice! Bugs didn't have radiators. They used fins. Just some ideas to help with the plan.

Vinny

yeah a rather large oil cooler, fin every thing giant squirrle fans rap the exhust and high temp paint it remove the cat or rap the heck outa it instale alota heat cheaild aginst the exhust you could also run long oil coolers to the front that will provide alot of cooling but a huge amount of oil will need to be used open up the back end alot to lets air flow more easaly your main problem will be at idle when the cars not moving aluminm heat sinks in the oil maybe and an incredible steady eye on that temp gauge, and if the traffic is really bad turn it off and set your fans on a switch so they can still run while the car is off

quote Originally posted by ManMadeChickens: I was reading through a copy of Gary Witzenburg's Book "Fiero - Pontiac's Pontent Mid-Engine Sports Car" that I got for Christmas, and stumbled across something interesting:

That is interesting. Thanks for sharing

After reading through this, the title Radiator-less Fiero Design Concept is missleading. From what I get is you are just using a different design radiator. Instead od the conventional air through fin design you ar going to a passive fin design. Ether way you are still radiating the heat away from the coolant. A true radiator-less design would have to start with the engine not requiring any coolant.

I assume radiatorless means waterless? Heres another idea if thats the case. Install a air pump of some sort, even a smog pump. Drill and tap into the water passages in the block on one side at the top. Drill into the water passages on the other side on the bottom but don't tap. Plumb lines from the pump to the tapped holes and let it pump air through the engine block out through the holes on the other side. It would be pumping the hot air out! Might work.

Vinny

Just for fun here's another tube design for ya....
http://www.classtenindustri..._heat_exchanger.aspx

I don't know how practical this is but it's an interesting idea to think about. This may have been discussed but I didn't read the whole thread, I think the airflow should always be in a direction opposite the flow of the coolant, so in your diagram the drivers side airflow needs to be reversed.

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RickN
White 88GT 5spd
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White 99 F250SD 7.3PSD 6spd
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