Does anyone know if it is possible to pull the heads from a stock 2.8 in an '87 GT while the engine is still in the car? With or without exhaust manifolds still attached?

Good luck dude..

I think that the front engine mount is bolted to the heads too.

I think I'm wrong on that after thinking about it.. It just a lot of stuff around those areas to make it difficult.

[This message has been edited by unboundmo (edited 12-19-2008).]

This guy did it:

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...070315-2-078632.html

And he didn't really know anything about Fiero's or mechanics at all. Last I knew it was still on the road running around Fresno California. I had to loan him 1 socket to get a sensor out of the head. Other that all he had for tools were a few grandpa hand downs and one of those little kits that you get at kragen for like emergency road side stuff. Little silver GT with one of my red bumper covers on it. Haven't seen him since the WCF BBQ back around spring time. He might be on the other fiero site still but don't know for sure.

Thanks for the response. It's amazing to me how some people will just dive into a project without much preparation, but then that's the engineer in me, I guess. Sounds like it is do-able, but maybe a better idea to go ahead and pull the entire engine anyway. Thanks again for the feedback.

quote Originally posted by unboundmo: I think that the front engine mount is bolted to the heads too. I think I'm wrong on that after thinking about it.. It just a lot of stuff around those areas to make it difficult.

The dogbone is bolted to the head, but it's only needed to handle engine torque. The other three hold things up no troubles.

After working on the engine a bit in the car and then pulling the cradle, I think pulling the cradle is by far the easier way to do work like this assuming you have the place to do it. The cradle will work as a wonderful engine stand if you are just pulling the heads. Plus the extra time spent pulling the cradle could easily be made up for by making the actual work on the engine easier.

I just did mine in the car this week because i had a cracked header in the back, and when I tried to pull it, a few of the bolts busted in the head.
Its not that bad, really. take the dogbone/right side motor mount off, intake manifold, Y-pipe connections, distributor, miscellaneous crap, and the heads come right out with the exhaust manifolds on them.

I put mine back together yesterday after drilling and re-tapping the exhaust manifold bolts. All new head, intake, and valve cover gaskets, and adjusted valve lash.

Purrs like a kitten now.

[This message has been edited by SeafordMX (edited 12-19-2008).]

quote Originally posted by DRE Fiero: Does anyone know if it is possible to pull the heads from a stock 2.8 in an '87 GT while the engine is still in the car? With or without exhaust manifolds still attached?

Absolutely you can pull heads with engine in the car. If you are just doing a valve job or minor work, that's the way to go. If you are planning on much more work then dropping the cradle really is the way to go.

My cradle drop picture story

Wanted to add some thoughts.

If you can remove the deck lid, that'll make things easier for pulling heads.

Start off at Top Dead Center TDC #1 cylinder if you can.

Don't attempt to remove exhaust manifolds until the heads are out of the car, disconnect them at the Y-pipe, pull the heads with manifolds attached.

I found that it's much, much easier to remove both heads and the lower intake as one assembly and seperating the parts on the bench, trust me on this. Cherry picker or an extra friend will help out here.

Get a manual to work from, it'll help identify the fasterners and torque sequences.

Felpro gaskets are the way to go, you'll need new head bolts too.

Keep pushrods in order, couple of cardboard boxes, punch some holes, you got the idea.

Took me a while to find my bookmark, Robert posted about this valve rocker tool, it's a life saver. Most everyone here has struggled with valve lash, myself included, this tool is worth anything you'll pay for it compared with the headaches it'll save you later, definately the way to go.

Unless you have had to set valve lash before you'll have no idea of how much aggravation I've just saved you with the heads up about this tool.

quote Originally posted by Robert 2: Or use this tool made by Lisle Lis 48500 Made specially to remove the push rod without disturbing the setting while installing the gasket

You can also go into the forum search function, tons of threads about head removal.

Edit,,,, This tool allows you to remove the pushrods WITHOUT removing the rockers. As long as you don't disturb the adjusting nut on the rockers, you're fine, no valve lash to set later! Believe me, if I ever have to remove V-6 heads ever again, I'll get one of these tools.

[This message has been edited by jetman (edited 12-20-2008).]

I did not read EVERY response, but to answer the first question about removing the heads with the motor in the car...

YES you can do it! I just did it in the spring on my wife's '86 GT.

Although it would be much easier to remove the heads when the motor is out of the car!

Thanks again for the great response. I appreciate the advice regarding the rockers and removing the push rods. Now that I know it can be done, I will have to finally decide if I want to go to the trouble of pulling the intake and heads. I was thinking of doing this to check the valves, match the ports and maybe switch to 1.6 ratio rockers. Decisions, decisions... The car runs so well, even for a 95K mile engine, that I really don't want to mess with it, but I was hoping to eke out a few more HP without breaking the bank. Thanks for everyone's help and experience.

If you switch out the rockers, you'll need to set the valve lash. Tough decision to start messing with an engine that, as you say, runs so well. I sure wouldn't be anxious to tear into an engine that was running well unless the was a reason like broken timing chain, manifold leak or etc.

Several of the members here have picked up an extra motor as a project and worked on it in their lesiure. Lots of threads on swaps, 3800 engines are popular, big bang for buck too, just something else to consider.

If it were me and it's running well, I wouldn't touch it. Don't mess with what's not broken, especially on old cars like these. Well not unless you are prepared to go the whole hog that is. Far too often something else will break whilst you are working on it leading to an every bigger and bigger job. If you are prepared for that then fine but if not it can get frustrating (and expensive) pretty quickly.

That's just me though!

------------------
Dave

www.ltlfrari.com

Yep, leave the exhaust manifolds bolted to the heads when you pull them. While on the bench you can more easily replace the broken bolts that will result from removing the manifolds. The V6 heads are fairly bulletproof so won't need much work to renew, other than a valve job and new valve springs. The old springs are shot by now, especially the exhaust.

When reassembling, remember that you cannot cut the intake gaskets so it's important to have them in place before installing the pushrods. Use FelPro, the top end gasket set including intake and head gaskets is HS8699PT-5, best price I've found on or off line is at AutoZone for this.

JazzMan

yes, as all above - you sure can do this.

and, if this is to install 1.6 rockers - another thing you may want to do is: port the exhaust manifolds.
and, if you are really ambitious: port/gasket match the intakes.
and - lastly - crowning touch: port the heads & lap the valves.

that is all free power. assuming you have the tools.

That is exactly what my plans were relative to the various engine mods that I could do to the 2.8 l without spending huge amounts of money. Now I just have to convince myself it will be worth the time and effort. Thanks for the input.

well - yes - and no. could be up to 15 HP gain
it is more power - but - that also makes the assumptions you will be putting that power down, which means now you must worry about bearings down below. maybe dropping the oil pan & re-doing the rod bearings would be a good idea, after the head work. especially since when the intake & the heads come off, anti-freeze WILL run down. and bearings no like antifreeze. you will be turning the crank to set the lash. $20 and 3 hours - fine insurance cost.

[This message has been edited by Pyrthian (edited 12-23-2008).]

Good point. This is why I'm still undecided. As you say, the power increase would be good, but the "side effects" are not so great. There are no simple projects when it comes to engine upgrades, because one thing always leads to another. You're right about the bearings, so I may have to re-think my plans.

bearings are $20 and 3 more hrs work.
and - being these are old cars - you want to do them anyways.
you got a great upgrade plan, the only killer is the work & time.
I am hoping your Fiero is out for the season anyways - so the time shouldn't be an issue
and, for me - I find the work to be therapeutic & rewarding. I love grinding/porting.

You're supposed to drain the coolant before pulling the heads. Antifreeze won't get into the bearings unless you spill a bunch into the oil AND then start the motor to circulate it in the block. Even then, not running the engine for long and promptly changing the oil will save the bearings. If you want to pull the heads you'll need a top-end gasket set, get FelPro HS8699PT-5, (runs around $84 from Autozone, probably special order, or Amazon w/ free shipping, $121) and includes all the intake, throttle body, and head gaskets. You don't need new head bolts, the Fiero V6 doesn't use one-time-use head bolts. If you pull the heads, do yourself a favor and run them to a local machine shop to be reconditioned; you'll need new valve springs and possibly new exhaust valves.

If you spill any coolant into the cylinders blot it up immediately with paper towels and spray some oil into the ring gap to make sure the rings don't get rusted to the cylinder wall.

JazzMan

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: If you want to pull the heads you'll need a top-end gasket set, get FelPro HS8699PT-5, (runs around $84 from Autozone, probably special order, or Amazon w/ free shipping, $121) and includes all the intake, throttle body, and head gaskets.

JazzMan, you might to need to update your prices as Autozone currently lists that gasket set Here at $120

As if that wasn't bad enough, the listed price for that gasket set locally is $251

quote Originally posted by Patrick: JazzMan, you might to need to update your prices as Autozone currently lists that gasket set Here at $120 As if that wasn't bad enough, the listed price for that gasket set locally is $251

Those prices are current, I called my local AutoZone before posting that info. I also looked up the Amazon price. I did not look at the Autozone website as I prefer local pickup when I can. My local Autozone used to stock these a couple of years back, but now they're special order, so I'll probably go get two sets on order to keep in stock.

JazzMan

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Those prices are current, I called my local AutoZone before posting that info. I did not look at the Autozone website as I prefer local pickup when I can.

So JazzMan, just to clarify, are you saying that individual Autozone stores set their prices independent of what the Autozone website states?

quote Originally posted by Patrick: So JazzMan, just to clarify, are you saying that individual Autozone stores set their prices independent of what the Autozone website states?

No, I don't know AutoZone's pricing policy. I do know that moments before posting those prices I called my local AZ and asked them, by part number (and had them read it back to me) how much it was. They replied, and I quote, "That's 83.99 but we'll have to special order it." Two years ago I bought one (they had it in stock at that time) for around $75. When I rebuilt my 2.8 five years ago it ran around $70 and I bought it from AZ after diligent searching for the best price I could find.

As to what their website charges, I haven't a clue because as I stated earlier I don't look there, never have.

Feel free to call my local AutoZone to verify this information for your self, their phone number is 817 831-6555.

JazzMan

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Feel free to call my local AutoZone to verify this information for your self, their phone number is 817 831-6555.

...

JazzMan, I'm not doubting your word. My questions were in reference to Autozone's pricing structure, not your integrity. I am a friend, not a foe.

Always ask them to price match if someone (including the website) has a lower price.