i have heard of the grand am brakes being an upgrade to the fiero's, and i'm wondering how difficult it is to do the swap (what do i need off the donor car, etc) i have a 1994 grand am in my "redneck garage" shown below it's my shed and the car BARELY fits thru the door (less than 1" clearance on each side) if anyone can point me in the correct direction please do so, also would these fit behind 14 in factory wheels or do i need to change my rims as well?

edit to provide pic lol

[This message has been edited by greasemonke50613 (edited 04-09-2009).]

need to machine a old fiero rotor down to just its hub to fit inside the hat of the grandam rotor, then i think you need to do some minor grinding on the mounting tab of the grandam calipier bracket for propper fit.

Details posted on Page 2 of this thread.

I have read many times how to do this upgrade and I know you put regular front grand am brakes on the back of the Fiero and you are done. But on the front all I ever hear is machine the old Fiero rotor down. Does this mean to take just the friction surface off the old Fiero rotor? Do you have to machine it down further to get the grand am rotor over it or is it small enough like that?

Also since I am asking about it anyway, I know it is recommended the master cylinder be changed if you make the upgrade. Which car is it that has the bigger one? Thanks

quote Originally posted by Riddick85: Does this mean to take just the friction surface off the old Fiero rotor? Do you have to machine it down further to get the grand am rotor over it or is it small enough like that?

You have to machine it down enough so that is is the same size as the inside of the Grand Am rotor. You'll have to get one and measure it, unless someone here knows the size. Or you can just get the Fiero Store kit which has everything you need, including machined Fiero rotors, ready to put on your car.

[This message has been edited by TopNotch (edited 04-10-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Riddick85: I have read many times how to do this upgrade and I know you put regular front grand am brakes on the back of the Fiero and you are done.

I am assuming that means you won't have an emergency brake. Don't know about your state but TX requires a functional emergency brake for state inspection.

ok....whats the point of machining the fiero's rotor down that far? is it just to use as a spacer then??

quote Originally posted by greasemonke50613: ok....whats the point of machining the fiero's rotor down that far? is it just to use as a spacer then??

The Grand Am rotors don't have the hub and wheel bearings built into them. They're just rotors. So you need to retain the Fiero wheel bearings and hubs.

quote Originally posted by greasemonke50613: ok....whats the point of machining the fiero's rotor down that far? is it just to use as a spacer then??

You need to take the "disk" part off the fiero rotor making it a hub with lug studs only that will stay on the car. The diameter should mattch the inside diameter of the Grand Am rotor which will slide over the hub and studs. The Grand Am rotors dont have the bearing hub in them, so you are using the fiero one fitted into it.

Some people say to use the S-10 Master cylinder, others say its too much unless your doing all four brakes.

Like Terry, I live in TX and not only are the emergency/parking brakes required for safety inspection BUT, on a hill it is hard on your eng/trans mounts to hold your car in place. A standard may leak compression and start rolling. You can tear up the parking pawn in your auto. Not sure of the numbers but I understand 90% of the braking is on the front brakes. I don't think the increase of rear braking by doing the upgrade is noticeable by MOST drivers especially when compared to the loss of a safety feature of an emergency/parking brake. Just my $0.02
I opted to only do the upgrade to the front on my daughter's 87 GT and keep the stock brakes on the back.

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Why fight to be accepted by people you don't actually want to be like?

One thing that most people get wrong with this is that the rear "mechanical braking system" is not a "parking brake" but an "EMERGENCY BRAKE" in case your hydraulic brake system fails. This will give you a straight mechanical brake if the need every arises. I personally would like to have that safety factor available "just in case".

well i'm actually looking at repairing my e-brake anyways, it doesn't work for some reason and the cable dangles on the rear. i'm considering doing the grand am brake swap, but it will be further down the road...or i'll just get the fiero store's vented brake upgrade and go that route instead, just trying to figure out what the best route to go is because i plan on future mods performance wise (3800 SC for my daily fiero and 350 SBC for the weekend toy) and want to start with the brakes...'cause if your all go but no stop there's a problem!

This is the thread to do your ebrake with the Grand Am upgrade.https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/083566.html

The advantage of doing the Caddy Caliper conversion on the rear is that the Grand Am conversion with the Caddy caliper is perfectly balanced. You can use the stock proportioning valve.

Also, you want the S10 Brake Booster, or Blazer Booster. This is important because without it, the brakes will feel soft. I have briefly driven a Fiero with just front GA brakes and the stock booster and it was SCARY SOFT.

If you do the whole job you'll have absolutely terrific brakes.

Arn

Arns,
Yea you're right the brakes are softer. Not sure about scary but definitely softer.
addressing other comments- Just to make sure I was using the correct term, I looked up in my 1988 Fiero Service manual and sure enough under section 5, it refers to the PARKING BRAKE. I even double checked to see if it mentioned the use of it as an "emergency brake". It doesn't. I pulled out my owner's manual and in section 2B-2 it says " PARKING BRAKE The parking brake lever is located between the driver's seat and door. .To set the parking brake, hold the brake pedal down while pulling the parking brake lever up all the way up. The lever should return to the down position after you let go. Before you leave the driver's seat, follow the steps under ""Parking"" in section 2. Nowhere is it listed as an EMERGENCY brake. It will slow you down if your brakes fail but it is listed as a PARKING BRAKE. SO I find myself in error refering to it as parking/emergency brake.
GOOD LUCK in your swap and yea although it can be exciting, all power with little no brakes generally isn't much fun! If you are going to use all that power, how about the 11.5 Vette brake swaps I've seen?

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Why fight to be accepted by people you don't actually want to be like?

i'd like to keep the stock rims on the car, i know that limits me as far as breaks are concerned BUT it keeps the appearance of the car as if it came from the factory. i'll post more later as i've gotta get going but i do have plans for the car...been making plans since i was 12 and my dad sold his fiero so i'm pretty hard on with what i want to do with them lol

I wrote this a while back, seems like I should post it again. I take no responsibility if you use this information and harm yourself...

First, let me give you a little background info.

I bought a 86SE Fiero to do a L67 swap, which has since been completed for over a year. The previous owner "upgraded" the brakes, as well as the suspension and other things. During the swap, most of the work turned out to be shoddy at best. There were loose parts, and some of the info he provided me turned out to be wrong. After the swap, I found the brakes to be extremely unsatisfactory. He did the Grand Am "upgrade" to only the rears, and he replaced the master cylinder to the full size blazer M/C. So, the problem of either upgrading to full Grand Am hardware or going back to stock arose. I can't leave the brakes in their current state, as I do race it, and they fade badly and work poorly. They border on dangerous. This is to be a full race car soon, so I need something better.

What follows is what I’ve decided to do, much of it based on the calculations of PFF'er theogre, found in his cave. I must give credit to him; without this info, I couldn't have figured any of this stuff out. What I have effectively decided to do is run a Grand Am front-only conversion, but with a few tweaks.

Hardware I'm using:

Front: Grand Am 57mm calipers and rotors
Rear: OE Fiero 49mm front calipers and rear Fiero rotors
Master Cylinder: OE Fiero


Per Ogre’s chart at the bottom of this page, my current system yields 21% less front piston ratio and 21% higher piston ratio in the rear (not accounting for the prop valve). This is not acceptable. Were I to actually lock the brakes, which I can't even do anyway, the rears would lock first, creating a hairy situation. You can see that, according to the chart, the best braking improvement can be made by running an OE M/C with GA calipers. That's fine and dandy until you come to the fact that the OE M/C will not supply the volume necessary to run GA calipers, especially to the front, and the M/C will probably bottom out. There is a solution for this.

PFF'er MrFieroUK found that the OE application has the rear brakes on the larger volume primary circuit of the master cylinder and the front brakes on the smaller secondary circuit. It was designed this way so that if the rear calipers were not properly adjusted, the larger volume would make up for the increased pad travel. He tested a front-only conversion that used the stock M/C with the front and rear circuits switched. What I'm doing is basically the same.

Instead of using the OE rear calipers, which I would be required to purchase, I'm choosing to use OE fronts on the rear. The reason behind this is that I will get greater rear braking and retain a closer front-to-rear ratio than using the GA calipers on the front and OE rears on the rear. I don't require an E-Brake for my race car, so that isn't an issue. With the GA calipers on the front and OE M/C with the circuits changed, it's now getting proper volume. The OE front calipers on the rear with the circuits changed will get the same volume as they did in the front, because they are now on the same circuit again. This also lessens the problem of the OE rears not adjusting correctly and not having the extra volume to make up for it. The front ratio is now improved by 26% over stock and 47% over what I have now. Additionally, it now has vented rotors. The rear ratio is improved by 16% over stock and is only about 5% less effective than it is now. IMO, this is a better solution then a full Grand Am conversion. The normal GA conversion gives only 6% better piston ratio over the stock Fiero brakes on the front, whereas this solution gives 26% better ratio over stock.

Most of the standard GA gains are due to the rear gaining 21% more ratio, which is not that necessary. It also leads to the piston size being the same, so if the prop valve fails there is, effectively, 50-50 braking, and that's not so good. This method still runs a smaller rear piston for proportioning but gives 16% better performance than stock. Using those numbers, we can see that the normal GA conversion gives 27% better ratio over stock with 50-50 proportioning (not counting prop valve). This solution gives 42% better ratio over stock, with a 68-32 proportioning, almost the same as stock proportioning.

This is the solution I came up with that suits my needs best with out having to completely replace all of my braking components. I will only need to buy OE rear rotors, get an OE M/C, and have my front hubs machined to accept GA rotors. I'm not telling everyone to run out and do this; this is based on my needs. Though, as stated before, I feel that this is a better solution than the GA "upgrade". It still lacks a rear E-brake, but you can use OE rear calipers. You may suffer some performance loss, but it still provides better performance then OE. The proportioning will be more front bias though.




If you need more info, read theogres article on brake "upgrades" in his cave, linked at the top of every page .

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Red 86GT 4 Speed

[This message has been edited by Freshj (edited 04-11-2009).]

freshj, thank you for the information, one question for you: would YOU use this setup on a daily driven (summers only) fiero with a 3800 sc setup, or a weekend toy with a 350? BOTH WILL BE STREET-DRIVEN and MAY frequent the local dragstrip

Well, if the math theory holds true, then the GA fronts on the front, the stock fronts on the rear with the stock master cylinder with the lines swapped front to back should be a good set up. Just remember that you would have no E-Brake.

doesn't work as it sits so i'm screwed if i lose my brakes... all the more reason to make sure they work the best possible at all times lol. i might try to adjust the e-brake up today and see how it does...

From my own experience -

GrandAm discs and front calipers on all 4 corners
NAPA Premium pads
Stock proportioning valve
S-10 Blazer master cylinder
Stock vacuum booster
S/S lines and hoses
Fiero Store handling package #2 with front and rear sway bars
Stock lace wheels
205-60 front - 215-60 rear
86 SE V-6 4 speed

Absolutely superb brakes, good modulation at limits of traction, easy to drive in snow and on wet roads, brakes not touchy at all

hey fierocarparts, I didn't mean to imply that you were using the wrong terminology. I was just trying to remind people that "don't need a parking brake because I don't live in a area with hills ( I totally agree that this is a righteous need for this brake) that this mechanical brake also serves as an "emergency" brake in case of hydraulic failure. I didn't mean to offend.....sorry about that.

[This message has been edited by rjblaze (edited 04-12-2009).]