Very interesting, but I have a couple of questions:

1) how does the intake plenum volume compare to that of the stock intake?
2) how does the cross-sectional area of the runners you used compare to that of the stock rect-rounded-over corner runners in the stock upper-middle intake?

I am curious to see how big of a difference in geometry this part represents as compared to the stock parts.

Kurt

That is IMPRESSIVE, you guys made an excellent job making such a great piece. Keep us posted for dyno runs and keep me in the very interested list.

wow, that looks awesome, ill be sending some cash as soon as my checks clear from the relatives.

I am planned to go to the shop to have it flowbench tested and will post results on Wednesday. I will be working on getting it dynotested with before and after with a 2.8L and 3.4L and 2.8L turbo. This is the hard part with logics of before and after and the cost of dynotime at 125-150 and hour. With the flowbench we can do calculations to show what type of hp increase it will have.

This will bolt up to the stock manifold lower.

Price coming soon on the website and ordering information.

I will do my best to measure the volumes of the stock manifold. I might have to use water or something and try to figure it out. I will see what I can come up with tomorrow on that. I will also measure the runner length on the stock manifold.

On the corners. That is the worse place for the stock maniofld, doing that basic 90 degree turn and chaning shape can not flow well at all.

The throttlebody inlet is large enough to accept larger throttle bodies and with this manifold you will see a big increase in the airflow with that setup. I may bring a larger throttlebody intake with me to the flowbench and test the difference.

As far as when the intake will go on sale. I should be able to take oders in a week. The number of orders will depend on when I will be able to ship out each one. I can only make so many so when you place the order will be when you get on the list of when you get it. I hope everyone will have patience and understanding with this aspect because I will be working as hard and fast as possible.

Troy

I just wanted to say congratulations and good work. It looks very nice. I'm sure most can't even begin to imagine the amount of work that goes into designing something like this.

Dave

Here is a new page I made up.

www.trueleo.com/intake1.htm

quote Originally posted by Troymx576: Here is a new page I made up. www.trueleo.com/intake1.htm

I see you had to cut reliefs in the lower flange for the injectors, man that is a tight piece. One last question, Francis mentioned eariler in this thread that the flanges are 3/8 laser cut steel. Is the material used steel or aluminum?

BTW, I have notified our local club and provided a link. Hope you sell a bunch ...........Paul

very nice!! a lot nicer and more thought out than the wcf piece and the same price or $100 less. NICE!!!

i look forward to seeing some dyno results from people with stock and modified engines with this intake

The base flange is 3/8" thick steel. It is not laser cut actually. That was not accurate enough. All the flanges are CNC milled. The base flange has multiple axis to match the ports and injectors. That is why it took so long to do and that did cost a lot to get made. If I made it out of alum it would have cost more to make, taken 3x as long to weld up which would have added a few hundred to the cost and only save a few pounds. Not worth it at all. The weight is about the same as stock if not less I would think. I held both in my hands the other day and they are pretty darn close, but I will see if I am weight both of them today.
Troy

Thanks for all the positive remarks, knew you'd like them. As for the wieght, they're real close. I just put both a good bathroom scale. Ours came in at 9 lbs, while the stock one hit 12 lbs and we're all steel! BTW; with ours, you'll find a lot more room the next time you have to pull a valve cover off.

Have you checked to see what the volumn is compared to the stock? how about that flow test? it looks like this would be a good intake for a 3.4 with a cam setup. GOOD JOB

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" DRIVE IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT"

[This message has been edited by ohio86se (edited 12-28-2004).]

Im in on this, great job!! Ive got one question though,
How close is the positioning of the TB compared to the stock intake?? It looks close but I just thought Id ask.

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"HOT, HOTTER, HOTTEST!!!"
Red 88GT 5spd
Gold 87GT 5spd #115 PARTING OUT!!
Red 86GT 4spd

The TB is in the same place as is the EGR etc, etc........ You DON'T have to make or buy any special plumbing to go from your air filter to the TB. Such attention to detail is one of the reasons it has taken so long.

We are scheduled to go to the shop and have it flowbench tested tomorrow. I will have the stock manifold. The stock replacement Trueleo intake and a Trueleo intake with a larger throttle body to show the difference between the three. I will also have complete numbers on what the hp level increase can be based on the flow numbers. I will also figure out a way to measure the volume. The volume of mine would be easy for me since I know all the demensions but the stock plenum is going to be a bit harder to figure out. I may just take the volume of the entire thing and then try to figure out what each runner is and do the math. We will see.
Troy

Volume is easy, just block off the openings and fill it up with water. Volume is 231 cubic inches per gallon.

JazzMan

Block off with what?
The problem is that the factory upper intake has plenum AND runners in it...

If i had an extra $600 right now, that piece would be high on my list of parts to buy, that is fantastic looking.

quote Originally posted by Will: Block off with what? The problem is that the factory upper intake has plenum AND runners in it...

Block off the bottom plate and seal all the openings. Fill it full, then measure the amount. You will get the total volume. On the factory one you need to bolt the upper and muddle plenum togeather and then do the same thing.

Doing it mathmaticaly is not accurate at all because there are radiouses and angles. The best you will get is an approximation.

How thick of tubing was used for the runners? The plenum? And the curved tube from the throttle body to the plenum?

What I meant was that with the factory upper intake, you'd get the volume of the plenum and TB neck but ALSO the volume of the first several inches of the runners...

We went to the flowbench today. It did flow more than stock, but only a little bit for now, but I have addressed that and will fix it before I sell them. We did figure out that we will need velocity stacks inside the plenum for the runners and intake neck inlet. I did think we may need them, but wanted to see how it flowed without them before we went ahead and added them because of all the extra time involved in making them and installing them for production. We went home and figured out home to make them, we had to get a specail pressure tool made to make the velocity stacks in the press. I will install them on the runners inside the intake, weld them on and then port them smooth before I install the runners. This will take more time, but not that much and it is what is needed. I am not going to change the price of the intake. I have already put out the price and will stick to that, even though it will take more time. The extral measurements, demensions will not change. I have scheduled next wednesday mornging again. I only have Wednesdays and Sundays off so I have to wait a week to go back, even though I have a new intake already made. I will take some pictures of the velocity stacks inside the intake this Sunday and post them.

I am sorry this is going to take an extra week before I have flowbench numbers. I want to make sure that it is going to flow as much as possible before I offer this for sale. I do not want to go almost all the way to the end of the marathon and then wimp out on the last 1/2 mile. It is already better than stock, but if it can be even better I want that. Adding the velocity stacks should add 15-20% or more to the amount of flow. This is above and behond what is already has, which is more than stock. I should be able to start taking the orders at the end of next week. I will post pictures and results once I get them.

Troy

this is looking very good, can't wait to see what kinda numbers these will have on the dyno and the flow bench

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86 SE 2.9L
Best ET : 14.9 @ 90 MPH

First off I would like to say thanks for your efforts!!! I saw the pix of the proto-tyoe and like it. I am wondering will the finished product be visually cleaner; such as welds and powder coating. I know this is a concern for show cars. Well you guys are on page 10 and I have not seen any ratings bar for you or your son so I would like to be the first to give you guys an A+!!!

Thanks for the rating. As for the welds, we're not going to grind them down for a custom car look. That would add a heck of lot to the cost. Our number one concern is HP, we're building them to make these engines flow more air. And the one you see, is mine, and it is powder coated in near-chrome. I'll post some pictures of it on my car soon. I personally think they look mean as hell.

if you didn't want a powder coat on them would that come off the price cause I think that I personally would like to grind down the welds as I am tring to build a show car???? and once again I really like what you have done + for you

paypal sent, look forward to the new design and owning my own

On the look it is personal taste I think. I have made the welds look like good TIG welds and I would personally like that look much better than a smooth look. Now, if you want it all smooth you can take it and smooth it all out yourself. On the cost I can not really lower the price just because you do not want it coated. I had to purchase a complete powdercoating system, and oven, all the materials to do it and the powder. I have to justify all those costs over the entire run of intakes to make it cost effective to purchase these items. So, even if you do not want it coated those costs are still considered in the purchase price. Just because somone does not want it coated and wants it cheaper that would mean every other manifold would have to be slightly higher to make up for those costs, which would not be fair. One person I know of is going to have it sent to him uncoated because he is having it chromed.

Man-O-Man, that thing looks great, i cant wait till i get one on my 3.4L, maybe ill have more than 131HP once its installed.

guess ill have to wait and see.

matthew

TTT
Waiting for more info

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TTT pics on sunday eh? :P

Please don't take offense but a flowbench is not an engine. You can throw a 100mm throttle body on a flow bench and sure it is going to flow more air than a 50mm throttle body, but if everything else after the throttle body (including the engine) is not capable of supporting those increased flow numbers, the better flowing unit is worth little more than bragging rights. I think some actual dyno testing or 1/4 mile track testing of this custom intake on a STOCK engine would be the best gauge of how well this unit is going to perform compared to the stock Fiero intake.

But it's a 100% agreeable that more flow through the intake means better performance. That upper intake is the most restrictive portion of our engine.

Even if that performance is limited, it'll still be better then stock. Flow will show you at least the max air you can squeeze through it. Then the rest is up to everyone else to do, such as porting and such the lower to match, etc.

quote Originally posted by Darth Fiero: Please don't take offense but a flowbench is not an engine. .

So there isn't going to be any dyno testing, just flowbench?
I'd like to see a stock engine put down 115hp at the wheels (or whatever), take it off, put this intake on, then see the difference in hp and tq.
BUMP

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1986 Pontiac Fiero GT
Auto, soon to be 5 spd Getrag from 88 z24, Best 1/4 = 16.1 at 83mph, mods, wires, CRX intake, and power pulley. Planning Turbo 2.8 swap for a little more umph!!!!

Bought for 2500$ Canadian.

quote Originally posted by Scythe: But it's a 100% agreeable that more flow through the intake means better performance. That upper intake is the most restrictive portion of our engine. Even if that performance is limited, it'll still be better then stock. Flow will show you at least the max air you can squeeze through it. Then the rest is up to everyone else to do, such as porting and such the lower to match, etc.

Not necessarily. I know the stock fiero intake is one of the limiting factors for performance, but you are overlooking the other ones like the heads and exhaust system. Furthermore, the general rule of thumb is every time you make the intake runners longer, it will move the power band lower in the rpm range and starve top end performance. Of course if you make the cross-sectional area larger it can help extend top end performance as well, to a point. There is a delicate balance in the air flow dynamics of an engine. A flow bench flows air at a constant rate, an engine takes gulps of air because of piston movement and valve events.

Nevertheless, I admire this hi-flow intake because it does look like a very nice piece and hopefully it functions well. However, there needs to be some dyno or track testing of stock and modified Fiero engines so there is documentation of the performance gains vs. the stock Fiero intake and if there are any significant power losses as well.

We put more trust in the dyno than the flow bench since there's a lot of other factors to consider that the bench don't, but having more data is never a bad thing. We plan on Dyno time too.

I was hoping to dyno on the 8th, intake won't be ready tho..

I'll have to agree with Hoola47. Figures are OK, but a dyno should be performed to demonstrate the % difference in HP and Torque. After all, If I were the one selling it, I would want to insure a specific gain. Don't get me wrong, there's been a lot of really good work done by you guys but is it just pretty, or is it functional??

quote Originally posted by Quickster: I'll have to agree with Hoola47. Figures are OK, but a dyno should be performed to demonstrate the % difference in HP and Torque. After all, If I were the one selling it, I would want to insure a specific gain. Don't get me wrong, there's been a lot of really good work done by you guys but is it just pretty, or is it functional??

quote Originally posted by Francis T: ...having more data is never a bad thing. We plan on Dyno time too.

Patience.
This is a sideline with Troy and Francis. They have *real* jobs, too. We've been anticipating this since May. A few more days isn't going to kill us. (Gives me more time to scrape funds together. )