quote Originally posted by m0sh_man: i took the car out on the road today, it pulls alot harder from 2500 RPM clear past the stock redline. the lower end feels alot smoother also ive gotta figure out why my idle is alittle high now, but im sure its a loose vaccum line or something. this is a MUST for anyone with a peformance 60* v6 in their fiero. VROOM! matthew

Well I just got back from Huntsville. Seems to require a lot less pedal to get the same throttle response. Had a lot of fun playing cat 'n' mouse on the expressway.
Winding it out produces a shriek not unlike a cammer motor. Where it used to sound strained, it now sounds... evil. And that's letting the automatic do the shifting.

I noticed that mine seems to idle a bit higher too. Not a big deal. Where it used to idle at around 800, it now idles at around 1000.
If you roll up to a stopsign and bump it into neutral, the revs jump up to around 1500, then quickly drop back down to 1000. Almost as if the motor was still warming up.

The dyno day was interesting and I am happy with the results. I am sad that we did not get to do the 2.8L yet. What we do have is the run with the engine setup with the stock chip and stock intake minus the turbo from about a year ago. The main purpose of the dyno runs was to show how much of a difference it would make throughout the power range. It did this now and showed how well it works, which I am happy about. This dyno was done with the short runner intake, which has shorter and slightly larger runners than stock. If nothing else was changed this would hurt bottom end, but it did not because of the design and flow, which is what I was hoping for. I did not want to loose power anywhere in the power range and add a lot in the middle and top. I am and always will be a RPM junkie. The street bike in me will never go away. With the longer runner intake it would flow a little better in the bottom end and take away a little at the top, so it really depends on where you want to gain the power, but both will also be better throughout the rpm range.

The real important thing to look at is the power under the curve on the dyno results. The peak hp gain is nice, but not really what you feel and drive with. I have had peaky engines with short rev ranges of power and they are not that fun on the street or driving hard(large turbos do this). With the intake look at the power gain and how it added 1000rpm of high usable power above stock. When driving that is something you will really feel and drive with.

On revving the engine it hit the same wall at about 5300rpm, give or take. When I did it at first with stock I thought something weird happened, but I still had my foot pegged and held it, but it did not do anything. I raised the rev limit to about 6400rpm at the end with the Trueleo intake for Matt, as he did not want to hurt the engine and had no aspiration to go higher. He did not even want to go past 6000rpm, but I just could not help myself, sorry Matt. hehe. I did the run past 6000rpm the first time when he was in the bathroom and had no idea except he heard it rev high, but I knew it would be fine. I wish you could have seen his face when it went higher and he saw the dyno results. A bit of what and then happy at the same time, priceless.

On the 2.8L with stock injectors. I have a wideband myself and can tune in the car with the wideband to get the correct AF ratio for burning the chips. I will have a list of changes that I can do soon. I am not sure if I will go back to the dyno to do the 2.8L before and after because I do not have the time or money to spend a day on the dyno. I still work a regular job at 45-50hours a week and do Trueleo.com on the side. I am probably getting spinal surgery here in a few weeks so I need to save up all my vacation and sick time at work because I will be out for 2-4 weeks. I may go insane sitting in bed that long, but that is an entirely different conversions. Getting time off is hard right now. Taking a day off and sitting on the dyno for 3+hours to change an intake is very costly also. I have kept the costs down on the intake in every way possible to pass those savings along to others. If you knew my profit margin you would think I am totally crazy for making such little money, but I really like to do this. If I tested everyway I wanted I would have to add a lot of money to each intake (like $100+ or lot more) and that would not change anything for anybody, because the design shows the power increase and potential.

Also, it will make much more power overall with larger cams and porting, because the stock intake is one of the limiting factors when doing those mods. So this increase just starts with the potential. The more power your car makes the more the % increase will be. For example-(just making up numbers to show what I am talking about), if you make 100hp it may be a 10% increase and if you make 150hp it maybe 15% and so on with a exponential scale as the hp increases.

On the powdercoating, for some reason the gloss white color just would not stick at all. I even stopped half way threw, cleaned it off and started over. I do not know why, but for anyone wanting a white intake I will not use that color again so I can sell you a uncoated one and you can paint it. The chrome does look a lot better anyway.

On the overall production I have changed a few little things to reflect what the first few had to say about it and how to install it. You can only think of so many things on your own and a third party perspective really helps after doing the intake for so long now. I really want to thank everyone for their input because it has made a better product now for everyone. On the installation I will include more allens now. We found that if you use an allen in the back hole that is hard it works easier, but you need to use an allen wrench that has a ball end on it. We also have a different procedure for quality check at different times on production and this helps a ton.

I have had a few people ask me when I will increase the price. I am not sure yet to be honest. I was going to do it before doing the dyno to reward all the people that ordered before, but I am not going to increase it yet. I am thinking in the beginning of March as of now, but I not sure how much they will go up.

quote Originally posted by Troymx576: I am probably getting spinal surgery here in a few weeks

been there done that, email me!

just to let everyone know, i got to look at frank and troy's "assembly line" and how these intakes go together, i gotta hand it to these guys, they are really inventive. id say 4-6 hours goes into making EACH intake. I feel that my stock heads with 80k+ on them with the stock fiero lower intake and no porting work done is probably my limiting factor now.

the ONLYTHING im worried about with you guys is that we have no idea where my timing is really at, we adjusted the distributor around till i was making the most power, with a smooth curve, id guess its between 8 and 12 degree's but i need to figure out how to tell for sure, as i could move the distrutor just 2 degree's and it would raise, or lower the HP results on the dyno 2-3HP

just as a safe bet, id tell you guys with the intake already installed, set it at 10* advance, you should be about perfect.

also im not sure about the other 3.4L owners, but i use 19# mustang injectors, with the stock fuel rail, at 41PSI fuel pressure and i was running 11.0:1 a/f ratio, we had to dial down the amount of fuel my motor was getting bigtime.

hopefully with the optimal a/f ratio i should get MUCH better gas milage now.

matthew

As far as timing goes I will only raise that a few degrees at the top end. When tuning timing is something you know where you want it within a few degrees when you start and then you adjust it to get the last few hp out of it. On this engine I would rather be safe and just add a little bit. The bigger gains will be with the AF ratio. We will have a map for the 2.8L with stock injectors, 2.8L turbo with 19lb injectors and a 3.4L with 19lb injectors. Anyone going to the trouble of putting a 3.4L in the car can afford the few dollars for a set of 19lb injectors. Those things are dirt cheap on ebay all the time.
Troy

Just a quick hijack, then I'll be quiet...
If you want new 19lb injectors, check this link. http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsJEEP.asp
Top left image. They are Denso 19# pintle type injectors. (They replaced the Bosh injectors that I ordered, but are for the same application. Yes. Jeep.) Six, brand new, for $167. You won't hardly beat that price for new injectors.
Good folks to deal with. Here's their home page. http://www.fiveomotorsport.com

Edit - They also list the same injector for the Mustang.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 02-11-2005).]

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Just a quick hijack, then I'll be quiet... If you want new 19lb injectors, check this link. http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_SetsJEEP.asp Top left image. They are Denso 19# pintle type injectors. (They replaced the Bosh injectors that I ordered, but are for the same application. Yes. Jeep.) Six, brand new, for $167. You won't hardly beat that price for new injectors. Good folks to deal with. Here's their home page. http://www.fiveomotorsport.com Edit - They also list the same injector for the Mustang.

I have also gotten these. They are working great on my 3.4L. Thanks again for the info on these Raydar. Mark

I'll be buying one of these as soon as humanly possible... That is as soon as I get my visa bill paid off.

Very cool numbers.

Steve

Troy , Francis, I don't know if this is a fair question but how long is the waiting list or how long does it take to get your intake once it is ordered? Another question , which injector would be better on a modified 3.4 19lb or 22.5 lb and/or pintle or disc ? Last question, would a 01 3.4 throttle body be better than a bored Fiero throttle body. Just want to get some ideas. Any comments are welcome. I emailed you once and you said I'ld be running 220-240hp

We are not behind on orders, but each unit is custom built (type, color, TB size. chip type, etc) and thus will take from placing order 1 to 2 weeks.

quote Originally posted by Jncomutt: Wow, that intake really wakes things up from 3500RPM and up! But guys.. "Feiro"?? Geez... dyno sheet HERE

um...128hp on a stock 3.4? 142hp with this intake? I'm (was) making 149.8hp, 199.6 ft*lbs on my 3.4 with a ported intake, heads, tb, Crane .427/.452 cam http://www.geocities.com/lou_dias/Fiero.html and made even more (12hp) with the EGR valve off the crossover on stock pipes with a hollow cat and no muffler (IRM dual exhaust). And on 87 octane. My A/F ratio was 12.8:1 on a stock 88 chip using the original Lucas injectors from the Fiero Store (bought in 96 or 97) and an afpr set at 45psi at idle.

I still planned on shortening the intake a la 1fstm6 and putting on a 2.5" exhaust after the O2 sensor...not to mention using TDC pistons and the PAW high lift cam on my next build... My goal is 200rwhp. Well, that will have to wait 18 months. I've been in the Fiero game since 95 and have gone through 5 motors, each more powerful than the last. My last 2 made 146.3 and 149.8 hp.

In a year, I will start buying the components I need. In 17 months, the donor vehicle will be purchased. In 18 months, I get my cinderella license and naturally aspirated 3.4 pushrod horsepower records will be broken. The question is: Will the 200rwhp fuel injected naturally aspirated barrior be broken?

ps,
my totalled car was just sold to John Webb and he will be swapping it into his 86. I gave him the info he needs to get more power out of the motor. I wish him the best.

EDIT: Who needs a 4.9 anyway?

[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 02-13-2005).]

quote Originally posted by lou_dias: um...128hp on a stock 3.4? 142hp with this intake? I'm (was) making 149.8hp, 199.6 ft*lbs on my 3.4 with a ported intake, heads, tb, Crane .427/.452 cam http://www.geocities.com/lou_dias/Fiero.html and made even more (12hp) with the EGR valve off the crossover on stock pipes with a hollow cat and no muffler (IRM dual exhaust). And on 87 octane. My A/F ratio was 12.8:1 on a stock 88 chip using the original Lucas injectors from the Fiero Store (bought in 96 or 97) and an afpr set at 45psi at idle. I still planned on shortening the intake a la 1fstm6 and putting on a 2.5" exhaust after the O2 sensor...not to mention using TDC pistons and the PAW high lift cam on my next build... My goal is 200rwhp. Well, that will have to wait 18 months. I've been in the Fiero game since 95 and have gone through 5 motors, each more powerful than the last. My last 2 made 146.3 and 149.8 hp. In a year, I will start buying the components I need. In 17 months, the donor vehicle will be purchased. In 18 months, I get my cinderella license and naturally aspirated 3.4 pushrod horsepower records will be broken. The question is: Will the 200rwhp fuel injected naturally aspirated barrior be broken? ps, my totalled car was just sold to John Webb and he will be swapping it into his 86. I gave him the info he needs to get more power out of the motor. I wish him the best. EDIT: Who needs a 4.9 anyway?

so basically with my stock 3.4L motor with just this intake and a morse throttlebody was was withen 7 HP and 10 ft/lbs of your VERY HIGHLY MODIFIED 3.4L? sounds like with this intake your 3.4L would have seen 175-180HP at the wheels, considering that with a modified motor this intake will shine even more.

my heads were stock, my intake was stock, and pretty much everything else is stock on my motor.

imagine what i could have done with TDC pistons, crane h-272-2 cam, ported heads and lower intake, headers, and whatever else i could have done.

i hit the rev limiter on my motor today in 1st gear, which is now at 6400 RPM.

on your 3.4L do you have a dyno chart of how much HP you were making at 6000 RPM? or 6500 RPM?

just curious.

matthew

Just another note:
128 hp sounds right for a stock 160hp 3.4 - 20% frictional loss
my stock 88 2.8 made 112 hp with 120k miles and 140hp - 20% = 112
according to my math, I'm (was) making 187.25 hp at the flywheel with accessories...hence 149.8 at the wheels.
Along those notes, a stock 4.9 dyno sheet in a Fiero has been posted on the forum before and made 200 - 20% = 160hp at the wheels
Yes, I think another 4.9 made a bit more as have other 2.8's and 3.4's but 20% seems like the guarranteed minimum.

But 149.8 vs. 160 ain't that much and all that tire spinning torque means I leave a 4.9 at the line on launch all other things being equal. Like I said, my next motor should make alot more hp (20-40 more). Don't make me bore it to a full 3.5 liters! I'm not dissing the 4.9 swap at all or this intake...but people don't spend the money on the basic stuff that can be done by any machine shop to make our motors produce more power. Everyone wants to buy the easy bolt-on and while it's a great product, I think Cooter proved the stock runners aren't that bad but the upper intake is what needs the work and that can be done cheaply (Darrel Morse and a machine shop for the part that meets the runners).

I was the first one to squirt in my shorts when I saw this intake. However that dyno sheet has cooled my excitement. But, damn it looks good... But...just like the Sprint Manifolds don't give you much over ported stock manifolds... Hey it does get the job done but I'll stick to what I know. Once I see a dyno sheet with similarly modded 3.4 and an equally modded 3.4 with the Trueleo intake, then I will be able to make another re-evaluation.

quote I did my ported intake+TB for alot less that $600-750...

True, but it's common knowledge that once you open up the engine, the intake will be the biggest restriction. Even ported it won't flow nearly as much as trueleo's intake, I'd like to see a modded 3.4 with a ported stock intake pass 160 whp. And how did the 4.9 get thrown into this?

------------------

Mine is at 165 whp and it's a 3.4 . Do the math with my 1/4 mi. time And that's with the trans slipping 1/2 threw 2nd gear. I hope to hit the 200 whp with Francis's new intake

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85 GT 3.4
Auto 3.08
14.9 @ 90 1.9 60"

quote Originally posted by JamesCurtis: True, but it's common knowledge that once you open up the engine, the intake will be the biggest restriction. Even ported it won't flow nearly as much as trueleo's intake, I'd like to see a modded 3.4 with a ported stock intake pass 160 whp. And how did the 4.9 get thrown into this?

I'd like to see a modded 3.4 with Trueleo intake pass 160rwhp.
Give me time. As far as the 4.9, I've been considering it but it seems adding up the costs that a modded 3.4 can make the same hp. Like I said, my 150hp was with stock pistons, stock diameter exhaust and stock length intake. Also, my heads had the shark fin shaved down on the exhaust which is a no-no. It is also my experience that a 3.4 modded is severely exhaust restricted with our stock 2" exhaust. Just popping off the EGR valve giving me about a 1/2" diameter hole on the crossover pipe gained me 12 hp and no loss in torque. I can't drive like that daily so it's not relevant except to prove the theory. So I know my ex-motor is capable of 162rwhp with a bigger exhaust at the very least. You have to build a 2.5" exhaust with a 4.9 swap so the costs there are the about same... Mind you, I'm balancing cost with gains here.

The day after the 20th Anniv show, I met a guy in the parking lot who had a 3.4 with the Civic intake tube who claimed 175-180rwhp. I never saw a dyno sheet but I say the potential is there. I don't remember what all his mods were but just looking at what I have yet to do, I know the potential is there...

Well, I apologize for getting a bit off topic. I would like to see some more dyno sheets on the Trueleo intake. If anything else, it looks great. If I still had my car and I lived near Francis and company, I would have gladly been a guinea pig.

Well here are my mods. 9.8 cr, ross custom forged nitrous pistons , full floating wrist pins,Eagle 6" H beam rods, ferderal/mogoul cam 288/298 dur 214/224@.050 .473/497 lift with 1.6 comcam rockers, street strip head job, radius valve job, z28 springs , all the gasket matching done, crank scraper, double roller timing chain, Darrel M TB , DUI ign. module , MSD coil and 6AL , headers , using a stock chip, adjustable fuel pressure regulater. My major hold backs are the chip , exhaust and intake ,trans, gearing. I do not have a dyno sheet but it can be calculated by my trap speed at Mustangsandmore.com My best time was 14.996 and my best speed was 89.39. The exhaust was a major hold back with 2" pipe no cat and one resenator, I knocked off .8 sec. when I took it off , the trans was still slipping in 2nd gear. If I knew how I'ld post my time slips. As you can tell Francis's new intake would really wake it up

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85 GT 3.4
Auto 3.08
14.9 @ 90 1.9 60"

There are many ways to get more hp out of any engine.
Some have the ability to take out/apart an engine and do the
machineing/parts ect to achieve the results.
I for one, do not have this ability, so I am very pleased when "bolt-on"
items are available for me to increase the performance of my Fiero.
The "bolt-on" items have made a very nice improvement over the
stock 2.8 that I started with.
Headers
Borla
Small pulley
Bored throttle body
K&N
Coil
"INTAKE"
All most forgot, 3.4

I know my son will complain that I bothered to reply, but............
Ah, Lou_ is a perfect example of why new products that require considerable investment in time and money, don't come along very often for the Fiero or a lot of other cars. On the one hand, he wants to see dyno runs ($$$) on more engines, yet he also does not want to see the price go up and thinks it's too high now! On a stock and tired motor the dyno proved the awsume potential of the design. Additionally, if you recal our flow bench numbers were put into a progam by one of you (thanks again) and the CFM was enough to support 350HP! There's no way in #*%^& a bored-out maniflod we'll ever play anywhere near that company. As for being cost-effective, it gives you a real top-end without hurting mid or bottom-end and is basically an easy install, and lets you take full advantage of any other mods you have in mind.

quote Originally posted by Lilchief: Mine is at 165 whp and it's a 3.4 . Do the math with my 1/4 mi. time And that's with the trans slipping 1/2 threw 2nd gear. I hope to hit the 200 whp with Francis's new intake

I would love to get that on a dyno sheet. Even the most modified 3.4s here (non carbed) only get to 149HP like Lou's above. Mine did 146hp with stock 3.4 cam.

On the other hand i would like to see any stock Fiero intake port job to give 14hp on a mild 3.4 like the one used for the test. In an engine like mine I would expect at least that and much more with a big cam. I may prove that but not soon because my priority now is finishing my V8 car issues. Hopefully by summer time I may have my 3.4 installed in my other Fiero and ready for the dyno as I don't trust anyting but that for hp/tq numbers

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Palm Beach Fieros
http://pbfieros.tripod.com

i was looking at the trueleo.com website and it caught my eye when troy says,

"Pay attention to the increased area under the horsepower curve"

well i did a little cut and paste into autocad and drew a polyline tracing of the two curves.
Then i used the area tool to get the area under the curves.

The stock motor was nominally 13.00 (units aren't important)
The motor with the intake and tuning was 17.39

By my calc's:

17.39 - 13 = 4.39

4.39 / 13 = 33.8% increase........ok i know its not horsepower but it is the integral of power

and it does bring the average hp up by a significant amount.

By my estimates, from 90 to about 110, across the 2000-6500 range

not to mention that the stock motor ran out of air at 5500

anybody else have comments about this?

quote Originally posted by Lilchief: Well here are my mods. 9.8 cr, ross custom forged nitrous pistons , full floating wrist pins,Eagle 6" H beam rods, ferderal/mogoul cam 288/298 dur 214/224@.050 .473/497 lift with 1.6 comcam rockers, street strip head job, radius valve job, z28 springs , all the gasket matching done, crank scraper, double roller timing chain, Darrel M TB , DUI ign. module , MSD coil and 6AL , headers , using a stock chip, adjustable fuel pressure regulater. My major hold backs are the chip , exhaust and intake ,trans, gearing. I do not have a dyno sheet but it can be calculated by my trap speed at Mustangsandmore.com My best time was 14.996 and my best speed was 89.39. The exhaust was a major hold back with 2" pipe no cat and one resenator, I knocked off .8 sec. when I took it off , the trans was still slipping in 2nd gear. If I knew how I'ld post my time slips. As you can tell Francis's new intake would really wake it up

LOL!
Now that's what I call a highly modded 3.4! Mines doesn't cost much over stock components. That 2" exhaust is a choker. That's the biggest restriction on these motors more so than the intake because we are not at full volumetric efficiency anyway. I think with a 5 speed you should do a high 13 second quarter with power shifts. I see you went with 6" rods...I assume you used pistons with the piston height of the stock 2.8 pistons instead of the 3.1/3.4 pistons. I know that affects the power curve favoring peak hp over torque. I am shooting for a best of both worlds street motor. I'll use the stock 3.4 TDC pistons overbored. .8 seconds is a lot to knock off and you did that with the free-er exhaust...that once again re-emphasizes my point about where the money needs to be spent... Most local muffler shops (non-chained) can make a 2.5" exhaust for our cars for $500. Should see a 20 rwhp gain from that and only $25 per rwhp...

I agree with you about the exhaust. They even look restrictive. When I built my 2.8 we made a nice set of headers for it, put high a muffler and empty cat. While I'm sure it helped a lot along with the other mods such as piston and cam, MSD etc, it still hit that CFM wall around 4300 rpm and went so rich (with a Hypertech chip too) that the wide-band on the dyno would not read it! If you want to make real HP, you'll have to trash the stock intake manifold. Like you said, ' VE ' is the name of the game and the GM manifold bore-out or not, is just not going to cut it.

I am really glad someone noticed the area under the curve and commented on this. This is what you really feel and use, not just a peak hp number that does not really mean much. I have had high peak hp engines and they are not necessarily fast at all, they may just be slower, wait for the boost and then slam the tires to a real quick redline then start over. YUCK. Now it sure does sound good on a message board and makes the owner seem good but the car is not really fun to drive. The area under the curve is the most important thing to look at, but for some reason everyone wants to just leak at peak hp vs peak hp. Please be logical and look at the real world of the overall power increase. This is a message board but bragging rights on the board does not make your car more fun to drive or faster on the street.

As far as testing all these engines there is no way I can do it. I know it would be nice for each person with their specific engine to have a dyno sheet for them before and after, but it can not happen, sorry. I do not have the money or time to do it. It costs me like 1500-2000 for a day on the dyno with the cost of the dyno, giving away an intake and products and the cost of me taking time off work. This would mean I would need to sell at least 10-15 more intakes than I would have sold anyway without doing it. With this information I can not do it and to be honest I can not spend 1500-2000 out of my pocket right now, I just do not have it at all and would think all of you are basically the same way. I am sure we all do not have an extra 2k sitting in our pocket with nothing at all to spend it on. I hope you understand this and stop bashing away on this.

On the negative side. I see people complaining about the cost or the lack of dyno results for each engine configuration the intake could fit on or a stock vs modified vs highly modified vs turbo in the 2.8l, 3.1l and 3.4l engines. With all of that it would be 12 or more engine configurations and would cost me like 20k+ dollars. That would add a cost of about 500-750 to each intake made. Now, how many people would pay 1000-1250 for the intake. I am sure no one would. Also, the dynotesting would not change anything with the intake so it is completely pointless and dumb at this time. We have done the dyno, we did the flow bench and have the results, which shows it makes more power over the whole rpm band and greatly enhances the top end. If that is not enough I do not know what you guys are asking for and do not know what to do. I thought the Fiero crowd was bigger and better than this and still believe this so far.

As far as 200rwhp NA, I think it is possible. The thing to have a good rwhp number is not that hard at all, just raise the rpm band and the hp number will come. Will the car really be faster, maybe and maybe not. The tq may go down but the hp will go up. The real need would be for a really strong and light valve train and really nasty top end cams, make the comp ratio like 10.5:1 with forged pistons, give or take, and use strong con rods with good oil pressure. With the Trueleo intake and a nice large exhaust this can really help. Once we get a bunch of intakes made and sold we may work on a Trueleo exhaust system that is much better than stock. That is just an idea that is a bit down the road.

On the time it takes. There are basically 10-15 versions of the intake to custom make for each person when you consider all the parameters for each intake. You have long/short, egr/noeger/, tb sizes stock/ 57/62, colors. Now, there are basic parts to all the intakes as the base. The main thing I am working on now is getting more base flanges done, plenums done, all the parts done and then when the order comes in all I have to do is make the TB flange the right size and weld it all up. I work on this a few days a week so it usually will take me a day or up to two weeks when I get the order and when it is done and shipped. I think this is really really fast for a custom intake made to your specs from anyone. So when you consider how long it takes to make one in total time (10+hours) then if you get it a week or so then that is great.

Troy

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www.Trueleo.com

yeah, sorry.

We should have started a separated thread.
BTW, my peak hp is at 4500rpm. I'd like to see you put the effort into that future Trueleo exhaust project you mentioned.

Also, NEVER use a Hypertech chip in a Fiero!
As far as 10.5:1 pistons...maybe when you make that aluminum head flange...

I don't have any hard numbers or dyno slips yet, but I can say without a doubt that my car is much more fun to drive than it was a week ago. With a little bit of luck, I will be installing my rockers tomorrow. Hopefully I'll be able to make a few dyno runs in the not-too-distant future. Until then, I won't even speculate on horsepower gains.

Troy, please let me know when you're ready for me to send you all the parameters concerning my engine, for the chip.
I'll also try to make some log files with WinALDL if that will be useful. Truthfully, I've never used it, and have to figure out what I'm doing, but it shouldn't be too big a deal.

Personally I think a one to two week turn around from placing an order till shipping is an excellent time span. We have to remember that these are not mass produced! Many larger companies could not do what you guys do. Keep up the good work.

Sour

ttt

Troy, I'd also be intersted in a Trueleo exhaust system based off your results with your intake manifold.

The Trueleo exhaust is only a detailed idead so far. I have made a set for Franks car, but would need to do a few changes and upgrades first. This is still months and months away so no ideas yet on it. I need to concentrate on the intakes for now, but that is one of my next projects on the list.

2.5" please!

Hey Lou_Diaz!.... Whaddya' mean NEVER use a Hypertech Chip? Mine works really well in my slightly modded 2.8. Gimmie your rationale.......

This is a truly great thread and a greater project with great results. Please don't hijack it.

Andrew

Okay. The 1.6 roller rockers are in. No new strange noises or anything. (Since I did the work, ya' never know... )
As soon as the chip gets here, I'm off to the dyno.
It sure feels strong.

quote Originally posted by Quickster: Hey Lou_Diaz!.... Whaddya' mean NEVER use a Hypertech Chip? Mine works really well in my slightly modded 2.8. Gimmie your rationale.......

Well, basically, I've used both the Hypertech and ADS on my stock car, 3.1 stroker and 3.4's and they both did the same thing...nothing. If anything, on my modded motors they may have hurt performance. I dynoed my 3.4 and with all my mods...including 45psi idle fuel pressure and Lucas injectors (supposedly 27 lbs according to an old thread), my A/F ratio at WOT was between 12.8-12.9:1 across the rpm band which is perfect. My curve was smoothe, no bumps or dips. That was with a stock chip. That tells me I don't need any custom chip. Who knows, maybe a hair more advance at the top but I found my major restriction -> the exhaust. Opening up my exhaust would have leaned my mixture slightly but I know (via the dyno) that I had room to play with. I didn't post my A/F chart along with the dyno (nobody does) but at the shop it was there and that is the ultimate determiner of whether or not you need 'custom' programming. And yes, I mean 'custom'. Spending money on a pre-designed chip that isn't specifically tuned to your motor is a big waste of time (and especially MONEY).

If you notice all my posts in various threads, I try to balance cost with performance...and a pre-made chip is just a donation to whomever made it. That is my opinion. Ofcourse I've had some experience behind that opinion.

I hear most of those chips richen your mixture slightly and give you a little more advance up top. Basically that means you put on a bigger exhaust and need to use 89 octane instead of 87. That's about all the mods those chips account for. Amazingly, a descent bigger exhaust is something Fieros are sorely lacking so these chips are just making you spit out more gas and pay more for it too.

Maybe someone with WinALDL and the ADS or HYPERTECH chips can do a table comparison over stock to tell us the ultimate truth.

One final note... On my 3.4 dyno sheets (2 different but similar motors), look at the 146.3 HP sheet. That was using an ADS Superchip 'off-road' version. Look at the dip starting at 4700 rpm. That show a fuel shortage. That motor was a Grooms rebuild so it had more cubes and hence more torque than my tired 149.8 hp motor. If you ask me, the fuel starvation started at about 4100 rpms but didn't make a significant difference until 4700. Maybe that was ADS way of getting more performance out of out motors... Or maybe they choked it with too much fuel...who knows...I didn't see the A/F ratio for that dyno run...and wouldn't remember it. I believe that motor could have done over 150hp if the fueling was done right... Oh well, live and learn. Dyno time is priceless if you really care about performance.

Raydar- your chips should be there very soon. I sent them last Thursday.

On the Hyperchip and/or Superchip. I have seen both and downloaded both to my programer. I went through both of them and did not find much at all. I went through them a lot and all I could find was that they add some timing at the 90-100kpa range at the upper rpm ranges. I put it in an excel spreadsheet if anyone wants it. Just email me and I will send it to you.

Troy