TIG welded will be an OPTION soon, but that's not what this post is about. I said option, because it takes much longer to TIG them then to MIG and I'm not going to debate it. Also, MIGs can fill gaps easier than TIGs so the tolernces must also be a lot closer which all adds up to more work.
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07:22 AM
Sep 6th, 2007
Francis T Member
Posts: 6620 From: spotsylvania va. usa Registered: Oct 2003
We have done away with the 2 piece runners! After many failed attemps, I gave it one more try and finially designed and made a tool that lets us press that retangle into the end of the runners without crushing the curve. One other change is on the works, more in another post.
And for those wanting an even cleaner look (besides what the one piece runners offer) we will be offering a TIG welded intake that will look seamless. Whereas TIG welding requires a lot more time and precise fitting, it will cost more. I took some pictures of the last intake and its' one-piece runners, however, my cam docking station is screwed up so I cant download them. BTW: if you know what the error ' transform path invaild' means, e-mail so I can get the pictures up.
Oh, I had a question for you Francis, would itbe possible to get a few of those chrome TC decals? I'd love to have some for the fenders and intake. Thanks!
Oh, I had a question for you Francis, would itbe possible to get a few of those chrome TC decals? I'd love to have some for the fenders and intake. Thanks!
LOL, on the decal. It's just chrome lettering I got at a crafts store. I cant seem to find anyone that will give me decent price on stickers and I have a really cool looking TC logo with a dyno chart background. Thing is, I want them done on mylar that can take the engine compartment heat and also the Sun for finders/window use. Seems I have to order a heck of lot more than I'll likely ever use to get the cost down. BTW: that trueleo.com on my windshield is nothing more than white self-stick mylar from a craft store. I put it on for Carlisles as temp thing. Didnt expect to last. Well that 3 or 4 years ago, heat and snow and still looks good. So if any of you want do your own thing for your windshield, have at it. And it comes in colors and silver and gold. I hope to make offer vacuum distro-blocks soon along with custom (prototype looks cool) dipstick handles soon. And theres one last change yet to come for our intakes. You'll see on a TIG version.
Would you be opposed to me printing up some decals with your logo on them to put on my car? There's a print shop up here I deal with that's really decent, and does small jobs. If you want to send me a file or something, that'd be great. Otherwise, I could just make one that's similar looking to the one on your intake. Thanks!
Steve
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12:18 AM
PFF
System Bot
Francis T Member
Posts: 6620 From: spotsylvania va. usa Registered: Oct 2003
Heck no, print away. I'll send you what I came up with. Would post it here for imput but its an MSW file and I dont have an application to convert the file.
Question... The little flat spot that you put on the right end for notchie decklid clearance. What about running it the length of the plenum? I think it would look a whole lot better, if the additional work isn't too much trouble. Just a thought.
------------------ Raydar 88 4.9 Formula IMSA Fasback..........................88 3.4 coupe -soon to be something other than red Read Nealz Nuze!Praise the Lowered!
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02:03 PM
Francis T Member
Posts: 6620 From: spotsylvania va. usa Registered: Oct 2003
Heck no, print away. I'll send you what I came up with. Would post it here for imput but its an MSW file and I dont have an application to convert the file.
Thaks Raydar. We actually did a flat top intake a while ago for a guy that had a 3.4 in Seven (vvery tite fit) he raced. It was more work, came out nice, but I still think our currant units look nicer. We made a special custom oval intake for a guy too, that looked really cool but was big PIA to make.
Although it wont change flow numbers or anything like that, we have one more very noticalbe change coming for our intakes. Hope to get one done in the next week or two.soon. Guess I should add, if the concept works.
I am doing a modification to my vacuum lines, using 3/16 steel tubing, and will be replacing the stab fittings on the intake with compression fittings. I hate rubber lines. Anyway, rather than tearing apart the intake at the hardware store and finding a thread pitch gauge, I was wondering what threads you guys used on those fittings. Thanks in advance!
Steve
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01:00 PM
Oct 6th, 2007
Primaris Member
Posts: 550 From: Oak Grove, KY USA Registered: Aug 2001
If it is without do you have a link to a stock 2.8 and a 2.8 with your intake?
Thanks.
I can't get your link to open, it starts and then hangs? Anyway, the dyno data on our site was done on Matt's 3.4 The 3.4 and 2.8 are near identical, so we didnt spend the time or money doing a camparison with a 2.8. Dyno time cost $$ and we also did spend money for flow-bench data. If you hunt around you may find some before and after data on a 2.8 we have sold quite few intakes. I hope to get my 87GT on the dyno and it has 2.8 with our intake headers/Y pipe, chip and mod to air filter canister like Rodneys. What with getting orders out, I just cant find the time to get to the dyno. If you're wondering, yes the 2.8 also hits wall too at around 4.5k with the stock intake, but if you own one you know that already.
I am doing a modification to my vacuum lines, using 3/16 steel tubing, and will be replacing the stab fittings on the intake with compression fittings. I hate rubber lines. Anyway, rather than tearing apart the intake at the hardware store and finding a thread pitch gauge, I was wondering what threads you guys used on those fittings. Thanks in advance!
Steve
I just looked a tap and it says; 1/8 - 27 PIPE USA 296. That 296 is very clear, even other new taps I have. I would just bring one the fittings we provided with you and match it up.
Originally posted by Francis T: I can't get your link to open, it starts and then hangs? Anyway, the dyno data on our site was done on Matt's 3.4 The 3.4 and 2.8 are near identical, so we didnt spend the time or money doing a camparison with a 2.8. Dyno time cost $$ and we also did spend money for flow-bench data. If you hunt around you may find some before and after data on a 2.8 we have sold quite few intakes. I hope to get my 87GT on the dyno and it has 2.8 with our intake headers/Y pipe, chip and mod to air filter canister like Rodneys. What with getting orders out, I just cant find the time to get to the dyno. If you're wondering, yes the 2.8 also hits wall too at around 4.5k with the stock intake, but if you own one you know that already.
I clicked the link in your signature then clicked the image of the dyno chart. It says stock 2.8 and Hypertech 2.8.
I was wondering about your product because I am trying to determine if it is feasible to develop my Fiero int a SCCA CSP autocross car. Internal engine modifications are not allowed (for the most part). But, the intake and exhaust are open to modification. So this is why I would like to see a pre/post dyno of your product.
Thank you.
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02:16 AM
Francis T Member
Posts: 6620 From: spotsylvania va. usa Registered: Oct 2003
I clicked the link in your signature then clicked the image of the dyno chart. It says stock 2.8 and Hypertech 2.8.
I was wondering about your product because I am trying to determine if it is feasible to develop my Fiero int a SCCA CSP autocross car. Internal engine modifications are not allowed (for the most part). But, the intake and exhaust are open to modification. So this is why I would like to see a pre/post dyno of your product.
Thank you.
Ask here and in the general chat room for imput from people racing with our intakes. With all the extra HP, TQ and especially extra RPMs our intakes give you (to over 7K if you dare)it may feel like have another gear. Nothing worse than trying to power out a turn and need to shift before you even get to 5K ! As youre shifting someone is likely passing or gaining on you. The RPM limits of the stook intake manifold make these engines so unsuited for racing or any real fun for that matter.
Francis, I feel a little foolish, I don't think I'm smart enough to interpret the info on your dyno slip... That was for a 2.8, right? What exactly were the hp/gains? I just picked up a car that has 3.4 p/r in it with the OEM intake, and was wondering what kind of HP/TQ gains I could expect using one of your units. They look fantastic, btw, especially that black one in your sig. Austin
------------------ If you can't be good, be good at it.
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03:09 AM
Nov 7th, 2007
88White3.4GT Member
Posts: 1604 From: Hayward, CA Registered: Dec 2003
That was for a 2.8, right? What exactly were the hp/gains? I just picked up a car that has 3.4 p/r in it with the OEM intake, and was wondering what kind of HP/TQ gains I could expect using one of your units. They look fantastic, btw, especially that black one in your sig. Austin
Nope, those numbers were for Matt's 3.4 I hope to get some new dyno data this month with my 87 GT, stock 2.8 with just our intake, headers/Y pipe, chip and a mod to the air filter box. Instead of looking at the HP gains look at the area I filled in with geen. Thats the dif from stock and also a clear picture of how much additional power became available throughout the RPM range.
Originally posted by Francis T: And for those wanting an even cleaner look (besides what the one piece runners offer) we will be offering a TIG welded intake that will look seamless. Whereas TIG welding requires a lot more time and precise fitting, it will cost more.
The post quoted above was on September 6, which begs the question, "Are those for sale now?"
Asked differently, like a little kid going on a vacation car trip with his parents: "Are we there yet?"
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04:39 AM
Francis T Member
Posts: 6620 From: spotsylvania va. usa Registered: Oct 2003
Nope, not ready yet, sorry. My son is near ready to move into a new house he built and I've been busy doing electrical and other things with him and havent had much time to work on that TIG intake. Once he gets his C.O. and moves in I'll be free again. I did start on it and should get back to it next week.
Originally posted by Francis T: Nope, not ready yet, sorry. My son is near ready to move into a new house he built and I've been busy doing electrical and other things with him and havent had much time to work on that TIG intake. Once he gets his C.O. and moves in I'll be free again. I did start on it and should get back to it next week.
Thanks for the response, Francis T.
On a somewhat related item --- and I don't know if it's actually good news or bad, given the time constraints you've mentioned you're already facing anyway --- but I think your Trueleo website ( http://www.trueleo.com ) has been down for at least the last couple of days (since that's when I've tried unsuccessfully to access it).
I thought I'd bring this to your attention just in case you weren't aware of that, and new orders for your Fiero intake and exhaust creations recently have declined substantially for what might otherwise seem no good reason.
Besides, I want to make sure you're still in business when you're ready to make that super-clean-looking, "TIG welded intake that will look seamless."
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08:39 PM
Nov 17th, 2007
Francis T Member
Posts: 6620 From: spotsylvania va. usa Registered: Oct 2003
On a somewhat related item --- and I don't know if it's actually good news or bad, given the time constraints you've mentioned you're already facing anyway --- but I think your Trueleo website ( http://www.trueleo.com ) has been down for at least the last couple of days (since that's when I've tried unsuccessfully to access it).
I thought I'd bring this to your attention just in case you weren't aware of that, and new orders for your Fiero intake and exhaust creations recently have declined substantially for what might otherwise seem no good reason.
Besides, I want to make sure you're still in business when you're ready to make that super-clean-looking, "TIG welded intake that will look seamless."
Anyway, thanks for the heads-up on the site being down we'll get right on it.
I will start on that TIG intake this week. I also need to update the headers on my 86GT since they are very early units and still use the OEM style collectors (mushroom type) and are not equal lenght like we now sell. I will save the jigs for the Y pipe (for turbo aplications) and thus we can provide them for others. The customers will have to provide the adapter flange for thier turbo. Dont know if there will be much if any demand for such, but since I have to make it anyway, may as well save the jigs.
Originally posted by Francis T: I will start on that TIG intake this week.
It's been quite awhile (two months) since you posted the above comment, Francis T. Have you any updates on the TIG manifold?
Maybe my assessment is distorted by my own keen interest in one, but I'm guessing that even though everyone certainly wouldn't be interested, a "cleaner"-looking Trueleo intake manifold for the pushrod 3.4L engine probably would appeal to a fair number of people besides just me.
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11:23 AM
Feb 11th, 2008
88White3.4GT Member
Posts: 1604 From: Hayward, CA Registered: Dec 2003
If you made a cleaner looking high flow intake manifold for the same price ($600) I would maybe consider buying one but not for a while because I would have to save for it ($600 is alot for me). I'm just a newbie but from what I've heard about the product it seems promising.
Originally posted by fierofury: If you made a cleaner looking high flow intake manifold for the same price ($600) I would maybe consider buying one.... but not for a while because I would have to save for it ($600 is alot for me). I'm just a newbie but from what I've heard about the product it seems promising.
The Trueleo intake manifold is a promising one for the 60-degree pushrod V6 engine, as is evidenced by its dyno-proven results.
Francis T also has made a number of aesthetic improvements to it over time (fewer visible "seams," for example) without raising its price.
However, to get a Trueleo intake manifold cleaned up sufficiently to have it chrome plated --- which is something I myself would like to do with a shop locally that does outstanding chrome-plating work --- is another matter entirely. I don't think it realistic to expect that such a cleaned-up Trueleo intake manifold would cost the same as the standard one because of some straightforward economics, namely: More work means more money. For example, when was the last time you decided, "What I really want to do in life is to work harder for less money"? Unless you're feeling very charitable about things, that just doesn't happen, right?
Amusingly, it turns out that Francis T's use of steel rather than aluminum for the Trueleo intake manifold --- something for which he's received all manner of unwarranted grief from others in the past --- probably enables a more attractive chrome-plating result than would be the case with an aluminum-based intake manifold, largely because of aluminum's higher porosity.
Incidentally, fierofury, welcome to Pennock's Fiero Forum!
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08:07 PM
Francis T Member
Posts: 6620 From: spotsylvania va. usa Registered: Oct 2003
Ok, now I wasn't going to post this until it was done, but here's a lilttle peek. The intake on the engine below (just made new headers for my turbo 2.8) is our latest upgrade and is waiting to be tig welded (tig is an option) and coated. It will thus look almost if not seamless. When we went to the one piece runners we found that they made it harder (did have the section to turn it 10degs) to install as the angle for cyl # 3 and 4 made it quite diffiecult to get to one bolt on each. So much so, that we had to indent for those bolts a little. With # 1&3 and 4&6 now closer to each other it's much easier to install or remove the intakes and will not change how well they work. I don't tig good enough yet to do it myself and will have someone else do it, thus the wait. As for pricing on a tig intake, yes they will be more money. The tolerences have to be much closer for the tigs to come out nice and that adds a lot more work!
BTW: these intakes take days to make not hours and have costly CNC flanges etc which makes them underpriced as is. We will still offer mig welded intakes at our reg price and will keep the combo intake/header special deal for a while longer. More intake and header/Y pictures to come. We have also made an improved Y pipe.
I just made a whole new header Y pipe setup for my 86 turbo. It had a one-off not EQ set of simle headers on it. I used our currant headers and with a special Y pipe. Thing is, if we make them (turbo Y pipes) for our headers, which adapter plate do use and where should the turbo sit? People use lots of dif turbos and want them in dif places. Mine is a Garret and it is down a bit under the vent aera. My intercooler is above it and I'm now relocating my fan from under the Intrclr to above it. And it's very critical as to where you put that turbo flang. I had to pull my Y pipe and change the angle for to flange slightly, whereas it looked fine, but when I went to shift, the linkage hit the wastegate actuator, dang! No biggie to fix, but it does show just being off a 1/4" can do you in.
If you have our headers and want to go turbo you will have to send them back to me with the Y pipe and contact us so I can show you how to make location gig for your trubo that i can then use to make that special Y pipe. Thats about the best I can do with all considered. Also, with the stock headers being so bad, I dont think it would be worth it to make Y pipe for turbos for them.
BTW: I have a very modified 2.8, cam, 9:0-1 pistons, head work, intake, headers, etc, and an intercooled turbo in my 86GT. I also have an 87GT with a stock engine with only our intake, headers/Y, and a small mod to the airfilter box, and it's almost as much fun to drive as my turbo GT, so much so, I have no plans at all to put a turbo in it. It sounds meaner than the turbo car too, lots of neat rumbles etc.
Another update on our intakes: With our new one-pice runners we lost that joint on them and with it the the ability to shift the runner some, thus access to a few bolts was PIA. The new congiguration won't change flo but it will make for eaiser access to all the mounting allens. BTW: that particular intake has had the option of having the welds ground down.
