Chrome would look real nice.

bump

Red! Red! & Red!

Well we tacked welded the 2nd proto up a few days ago and found we have to make yet another change (R&D is such $$$ fu%^& fun). Anyway, to reslove a potential problem we're having new main flanges made. We could maybe use what we have, but we want it perfect. My son headed off to Richmond today to work with the CNC people. Anybody want to buy 25 exspensive and not quite-right flanges? They would also make interesting wind chimes or whatever. When you build a one-off something, things like this aren't so costly, but when buy in quanities to get better pricing... well you get the point.
On the plus side, it was a minor problem easly fixed with a mod to the flanges and everything else seemed to look quite good. Hopefully we'll get these flanges quicker than the last and I'm sure glad we only had 25 made the first time. So hang in there people.

Are you having the flanges milled? Have you thought about laser, water jet, or even flame cutting them?

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Punch the gas and feel the back step sideways; rip off a powershift and hear the tires punished by torque; downshift, lift off and feel the engine braking that comes only from big cubes, listen to the pop and gurgle. Know that you are driving an American V8. There are finer engines made, but none that are this cool.

Luck, Fate and Destiny are words used by those who lack the courage to define their own future

Red!

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Black '87 GT Auto - Daily Driver & Autocrosser
Eibach springs, Koni shocks, 15" Kosei K1s, Kumho Ecsta V700s, poly bushings, rear swaybar, front mount battery, MSD ignition, shift-kit, custom intake scoop .

I haven't spoke with my son since he went to Richmond this morning, so unless he decided otherwise today, they're going to be CNC again. Thanks for the suggestion, but we priced laser and had stuff done that way for other projects and like CNC items more. Water cutting what we need done is too costly. When you get to see flanges you'll understand.

bump

page 4? I don't think so

*bump*

Bump to the top

Great job Francis. I like most folks keep our noses out these threads, but we do watch intently. You are doing a great job and thanks for supporting the Fiero community. When its all done, put me down for one.

88Ironduke

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Pilots with out maintainers are just pedestrians with a cool jacket and sunglasses.
I.Y.A.M.Y.A.S.

I saw it bumped up again and thought I just add this, we got a reasonable quote for better flanges (more clearence for the injectors etc) and hope to have a prototype soon. My son should be posting on this soon and giving you people more info.

cool deal francis, im hoping my purple 85GT will be done soon, should be a good looking car, maybe even better than my white 87GT.

matthew

I hope you're talking about another GT and not the white one I saw. My wife is still bugging me to paint mine that color. To go from a black GT to white nots going to happen. BTY: It's a 'go' for that mod of sorts I told you about, be doing it Friday!

Hello,
I have finally created an account here and will post myself on this topic. I did not really want to post about doing the intake until more was done, but we had to gauge interest to see how many I really wanted to make. Let me give some history first about the intake we plan on making. Working with vendors getting flanges, mandrels, etc made takes a lot of time. I have to work with a mechanical engineering friend of mine to get the flanges done. After having 25 of them done, which took 6-8 weeks when I finally had them we made a few prototype versions and modified each. We have finally figured out the flanges just would not work with the design we had. I have gone through about 10+ versions so far. So I went back to my ME buddy and spent a half a day on the computer with him making a new flanges in CAD. We added a different axis to the flange itself, which added a new realm of difficulty for milling purposes, which adds costs. I have received the quotes on the new flanges and awarded the quoting on this. I have ordered one test flange first, which I should have in a week or two. Once this is received and verified to be correct and will work with the application the way planned I will order the lot of flanges. This will take 4-8 weeks to get done I would assume based on scheduling with vendors.

I want this done more than anyone here. I hate to make everybody wait. This is mainly out of my hands, but I do have a full time job and family to dedicate time to also. I am also trying out outsource as much as possible to save time, which will save costs to you and to have the highest quality part.

We are going to make this a bolt on replacement. The EGR will bolt on, the TB will bolt on. We have to have 3-5 jigs made up for fitment of all the different items. I have made intakes before and this one is by far the most complicated with the all constraints it has. There is not much room to work with and there are a lot of things to consider. I will not making an intake to just make some money. I want it to be right, fit right, and flow very well.

Prices I have not set yet. I have not figured out how much materials and items will cost yet. I have an idea of what I want to charge and hope to get below that, but I am not sure yet so please do not ask. I also do not know how much time each will take to make. I figure 5-8 hours each, but if I can shave the time for each down I will shave the cost down for you. Once I have the final prototype done I will let everyone know. If you want to try to figure out how much it will cost go ahead, then multiply that by like 5 and you may be close. The costs for raw material is relatively low, which I wish I had to only pay for. The real costs are in the tooling and machining costs. These add up quickly. For example, the flanges cost about as much for tooling as they do to make them. Set up time for CNC milling machines is real costly.

On the testing part. I will flow bench test the intake and the stock intake back to back. I will show all these results once done. I will also dyno test the intake in a few categories. I can dyno test with a lot of different cases but I feel that if I do a stock versus our version will show how much better it is will prove what it is capable of. This is the main point of dyno testing. I will also dyno test on a 2.8L turbo. This should show better gains then the rest because as air flow goes up so does the restriction. We will see when it is finally done and can discuss the results when we get to that point.

pics- Once I have a final product I will post them.

Flanges for sale- No. This has taken me to much time and effort to make them and a vitally important part of the intake. I will not sell them so please do not ask.

Colors- I can have just about any color, but it will cost more and will let you know when that is done.

On the topic of negative comments. I do not mind people asking questions and wondering what is going on or how something is going to work. I am opening to questions and discussions. This will help me figure out what your real needs and concerns on. I do mind when there is a lack of respect for something someone has no knowledge about. That simply makes me mad. I do not have to sell these intakes or make them. I have the choice of selling them to who I want. The comments by Alienfiero- “If no pics. then your pulling our legs.” Alienfiero- you will get your pics once I am done with the final version and you can see them then and yes, they will look very good. That will be all you will viewing unless you the see the intake in person, on someone else’s car. Enough said there.

Also, this is a part time job for me when I have time. I work 50-60 hours a week on my regular job and then do this on the side. You should know the wife is not the happiest person when I do not have enough time for everything, but I really want to get this done ASAP.

If someone has a real concern or comment you can email me at Troymx576@aol.com, but please remember I am very busy so I may not email back right away.

When I have more information I will let everyone know.

Troy

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www.Trueleo.com

Thanks Troy.
Good luck with the manifolds, looking forward to the results.

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1986 Pontiac Fiero GT
Auto, soon to be 5 spd Getrag from 88 z24, Best 1/4 = 16.1 at 83mph, mods, wires, CRX intake, and power pulley. Planning Turbo 2.8 swap for a little more umph!!!!

Bought for 2500$ Canadian.

Thanks for stopping in, Troy.
We're still here.

And as the old bumper sticker used to say...
"Ignore Alien Orders."

Been watching this for some time. Could you add me to your list of VERY interrested people? I'll be pulling a 2.8 sometime this winter/spring. I plan on building it up a bit and dropping it in another Fiero eventually. I was going to keep the intake and have the plenum and intake sections ported/bored. If this high flow manifold works out you can consider one more sold.

good luck and thanks for working so hard for the Fiero cause
Dave

[This message has been edited by ditch (edited 09-20-2004).]

How big is the plenum?
Runner Length?
Runner cross section?
Equal length runners bank to bank or unequal?
Whats the manifold tuned for RPM -wise?
Provisions for NOS plumbing?

You gotta know this already! How do build a manifold to flow better without the theory behind it?

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Donk316
All good questions. The plenum volume is 62.5sq inches. This does not include the neck portion which is another 10-12sq inches depending on how the final version will come out. The runner inner diameter is 1.375". Larger runner diameter would flow better, but would loose velocity and that would actually hurt in most places except high rpm wide open. The runner length is aprox 5-6" depending on how the final version comes out. The tuning for higher or lower rpm can not really be done to much because of the space constraints. With the 4cy engine it is much easier. I could move the plenums to about 4" from the cyl head, use that length add that to the cyl head runner length to get about 9" total runner length the head of the valves for higher rpm. The total length of this should be about 11-13" in total length from the velocity stack inside the plenum to the valve head. This length is more for mid rpm with it leaning towards the lower rpm range. This should be real good for these motors. I used to set my rev limiter at 10,500 on my mr2 engine for fun and it would make good power past 10,000, but this is a different configuration. The runners will all be equal length and be spaced equally in the plenum to get even flow to all cylinders. The manifolds are made out of steel so you could easily drill, tap and put port injection per cylinder with ease. We can send you one that is not powdercoated to make it an easier install for you drill and weld if needed.

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www.Trueleo.com

[This message has been edited by Troymx576 (edited 09-22-2004).]

Thanks Troy, just what i was looking for.

This is really interesting mabye I will hold off on the swap for a while and see what comes of this. I likee a lot!!!

MAN! This iz' killin' me! I've been holdin' my breath! I guess a little longer won't hurt!!

Yea i am holding off on tring to do one myself until I see this one, would save me alot of time.

if it does what I am expecting what it will do I will be shelling out whatever they are asking (within reason of course)

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86 SE 2.9L
Best ET : 14.9 @ 90 MPH

ttt

Once again, bravo. If I keep my car you can be sure your part will find its way into it quickly.

hmmm alot of reading for 3 am lol but it was good reading im interested too.
Brad

big old Bump

I really think that you woulld have any problem selling at least a couple hundred at the very least as long as the price was 300.00 or less. I understand if it may be impossible to sell them that cheap.

From what i've seen it's looking more like $500-$1000

I hope your doing alright frank, havent heard anything from ya in a while.
dont work too hard.

matthew

quote Originally posted by JamesCurtis: From what i've seen it's looking more like $500-$1000

ok i havent read what performance they are "esitmating" are we talking like 25HP? 50HP? 75HP? how bout torque... i know its not done yet but what are we expecting for 500-1000? there has to be some kinda target estimation.

Im really interested and am hoping this works!

Brad

Thanks for the concern Matt, been resting up mostly. I'm doing OK, got me a ICD implant now (defrib) and just like the electornics for our cars, it's got a bug in it, a wire moved, They're going to fix Tuesday. That really hasent held things up too much since my sons been busy with the project. We're waiting for some new mandrils with closer bends for more hood clearence, otherwise the project is looking good. I should be able to still do most everything, aside from welding, that's no no with the device, but heck, my son is a much better welder anyway, and welding is only small part of making them.

from reading all over mr2oc.com i can tell you that products from Truleo are of EXTREME quality and that this will yeild some horsepower. they have managed to squeeze amazing amounts of power out of the 3S-GTE. so if your really looking for a new intake i think youve found your winner.

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'86 Fiero GT

My Fiero XoticRydz
Mid-Rear Madness

Ooh this sounds exciting. If it yields a nice gain and can set up for a solid turbo appl I'm in. Everyone has been waiting to see what can be done with the plenum. So we really appreciate the work being done. Especially us in CA, where our options are limited because of the smog laws. Keep up the great work, there are many of us waiting for the results.

quick update-
I have recieved the base flange sample and it was good. I ordered the flanges and should recieve them in a few weeks. I have also found a good vendor for the mandrel pipe runners. I have ordered the sample piece and once that is recieved I will place the large order. Once that is recieved it will take about 4 weeks to get them. That is the last piece of the puzzle and then I will be in full production on these.

Also- I wish I could sell them at 300 a piece but that can not happen with how complex and how many pieces are involved.

Troy

page 6 and still no pix????? where are they? even progress pics would be greate

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Make it FAST or don't make it :)
LITTLE RED BOMB
www.velocityaircraft.com

So we are looking at another 3 to 4 months then...

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bump

Oh com'on guys, gotta be patient. Custom intakes aren't created overnight and hatched in a shell the next morning. We'll all live to see the day this intake hits the market(I hope), you just gotta settle down and wait. The phrase "Are we there yet?!?!" keeps popping up in my mind. Give this guy a break! keep workin away troy, i'm in it for the long haul

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96k Miles, 2nd owner

Thanks Curtis. I responded to that fellow yesterday, but it never posted? Anyway, my son ordered one 'custom' mandrel to check that it would work as we suspect it will. We hope to get it this week or next. If it works, (we really think it will) he'll order the rest and they could take maybe 4 weeks. So we're not looking at anything like 3 or 4 months. Once we have all mandrels, it well go quite quickly. With so many concerned about cost, we don't want to add to the cost $$$ for any special rush-order. As for pics, not till we're ready or quite close to deliever. We would be idiots to post pics or drawings now! One never wants to hand free engineering data to copycats. They're comming, really!