What's that orifice near the EGR opening?

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: It IS the healthiest and cleanest state in the United States, so they are doing something right, but I think maybe they've run out of things to do... so they're just making up ridiculous things to make laws for.

Then why does everyhing out there have cancer. Im always reading "clinical tests in california have determined that this xxxx may cause cancer in labritory animals"

Any why the HELL does trident gum cause cancer? lol

quote Originally posted by 86GT3.4DOHC: Then why does everyhing out there have cancer. Im always reading "clinical tests in california have determined that this xxxx may cause cancer in labritory animals" Any why the HELL does trident gum cause cancer? lol

Hey! Don't ask me. I live in South Florida, not Califnornia. I was just reading a study that was taken. I guess the emissions laws are so strict over there, that everyone has to walk to work! hahah...

Anyway, I guess something to add to this... I e-mailed the guy at Extrude Hone.... he wants $750 dollars to do the three-piece intake. He would send the extrude-hone material through the opening of the intake plenum, and pass it down through the runners, and out through the lower intake manifold.

I don't know if he's aware that the fuel injector holes are on the third piece, but I'm sure he has a way of covering them up.

Path of least resistance I suppose...

Anyway, I'm thinking about doing it...

Thanks,

------------------
Todd,
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 Volkswagen Beetle Convertible (Wife's Car)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6 5-Speed
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6 (3.2L) Auto
1984 Pontiac Fiero 2m4 SE
1981 Pontiac TransAm (Olds 455BB)
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

Pics from the "underside" on the way

Chuck

quote Originally posted by fierochild: Pics from the "underside" on the way Chuck

Nice job!

I fully expect to dyno tune the engine within the next three to four weeks. I will post the results.

Chuck

I've been thinking about doing this same thing for some time now. I'd really like to see dome dyno info when you an get to it.

quote Originally posted by fierochild: Lou, On my 86GT, that is the vacuum port for the PVC line. Chuck

I thought that tube went infront of the throttle body on the intake tube...?

Lou, The tube you are thinking of goes from the back of the throttle body down to the lower intake near the cold start injector. The nipple you see on the bottom side of the neck by the egr port goes to the pvc tube in the rear valve cover.

Francis,
How are you routing the pvc system on the truleo?

Chuck

quote Originally posted by fierochild: Lou, The tube you are thinking of goes from the back of the throttle body down to the lower intake near the cold start injector. The nipple you see on the bottom side of the neck by the egr port goes to the pvc tube in the rear valve cover. Francis, How are you routing the pvc system on the truleo? Chuck

Looking forward to the dynos.

So since you removed that nipple, what are you doing about the PVCs?
Filters?

quote Originally posted by fierochild: Lou, The tube you are thinking of goes from the back of the throttle body down to the lower intake near the cold start injector. The nipple you see on the bottom side of the neck by the egr port goes to the pvc tube in the rear valve cover. Francis, How are you routing the pvc system on the truleo? Chuck

Can't speak for Francis, but on mine, its just about stock. Its a little bit of a stretch, but it still fits. If I had Rodneys metal lines, I'd just bend it a little for a better fit, but it still works fine with the stock line.

I thought about using the vacuum port that would normally hook to the back of the throttle body. But then you have the line from the firewall side valve cover to the intake boot. May just stick a vent filter in the rear valve cover. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. Got an engine to build first.

Chuck

quote Originally posted by fierochild: I fully expect to dyno tune the engine within the next three to four weeks. I will post the results. Chuck

I'm fully interested in seeing the results fierochild.

[This message has been edited by Mister (edited 03-13-2006).]

Any more progress on this?

The engine is finally together and in the car. I had problems with fitting the intake. With the head milled, and the deck blocked the intake needed a little tweeking to line up right. The engine has about 15 minutes run time on it so far. I encountered vacuum leaks with the plenum causing the engine to idle at 2000rpm. The plenim is at the machine shop getting the mating surfaces milled flat. It is due back tomarrow. I should have it back together tomarrow evening. I have a few other loose ends to tie up, but I hope to have it on the dyno next week.

Chuck

quote Originally posted by fierochild: The engine is finally together and in the car. I had problems with fitting the intake. With the head milled, and the deck blocked the intake needed a little tweeking to line up right. The engine has about 15 minutes run time on it so far. I encountered vacuum leaks with the plenum causing the engine to idle at 2000rpm. The plenim is at the machine shop getting the mating surfaces milled flat. It is due back tomarrow. I should have it back together tomarrow evening. I have a few other loose ends to tie up, but I hope to have it on the dyno next week. Chuck

Definitely let us know! I assume you won't be building multiples of these, but never the less, your experiences will be excellent for the rest of us who want to KEEP that stock look, but improve performance as well. I'm really interested to see what kind of gains you "feel" from it.

Is there any chance you might be willing to test your car out with a totally stock TB and plenum, and then switch to your modified intake?

Thanks!!!

------------------
Todd,
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 Volkswagen Beetle Convertible (Wife's Car)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6 5-Speed
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6 (3.2L) Auto
1984 Pontiac Fiero 2m4 SE
1981 Pontiac TransAm (Olds 455BB)
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

Todd, I plan to test it both ways, but the stock intake will be run after the engine is maximized for the moded plenum. The stock plenum an 88 with the Darrel Morse modified inlet. I will post the numbers from the first and last runs of the tuning process, and then a pass with stock/modified plenum.
The plenmum came back from the machine shop this afternoon. I spent a large part of the afternoon refinishing it. The machinist had to mill the shiney part of the top side of the plenum in order to get a truly flat surface to machine from. As far as the dyno tuning schedule goes, I will be on standby all next week.

I'll keep you posted

Chuck

quote Originally posted by fierochild: Todd, I plan to test it both ways, but the stock intake will be run after the engine is maximized for the moded plenum. The stock plenum an 88 with the Darrel Morse modified inlet. I will post the numbers from the first and last runs of the tuning process, and then a pass with stock/modified plenum. The plenmum came back from the machine shop this afternoon. I spent a large part of the afternoon refinishing it. The machinist had to mill the shiney part of the top side of the plenum in order to get a truly flat surface to machine from. As far as the dyno tuning schedule goes, I will be on standby all next week. I'll keep you posted Chuck

Please do!!! Thanks! You're paving the way for those of us who want more power, but want to keep the car looking stock!

------------------
Todd,
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 Volkswagen Beetle Convertible (Wife's Car)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6 5-Speed
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6 (3.2L) Auto
1984 Pontiac Fiero 2m4 SE
1981 Pontiac TransAm (Olds 455BB)
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: You're paving the way for those of us who want more power, but want to keep the car looking stock!

Just a quick update. I havn't forgotten my promise to post dyno numbers. While the engine is up and running fixing bugs has kept it off the dyno. I was able to take it to the track last weekend and break the engine in. However I managed to blow the clutch with a high speed down shift. Car is now sitting in the garage awaiting a SPEC2 clutch. As for power I can only say that the seat- of- the- pants meter pegged the wow on the scale. The engine pulled strong through 6000rpm, and it did not exibit the 4800rpm flat spot most people report on the 3.4. I have picks of the engine in the car if someone can resize and post for me.

Chuck

quote Originally posted by fierochild: Just a quick update. I havn't forgotten my promise to post dyno numbers. While the engine is up and running fixing bugs has kept it off the dyno. I was able to take it to the track last weekend and break the engine in. However I managed to blow the clutch with a high speed down shift. Car is now sitting in the garage awaiting a SPEC2 clutch. As for power I can only say that the seat- of- the- pants meter pegged the wow on the scale. The engine pulled strong through 6000rpm, and it did not exibit the 4800rpm flat spot most people report on the 3.4. I have picks of the engine in the car if someone can resize and post for me. Chuck

Yeah, e-mail them to me at toddjasp@bellsouth.net or jasperst@dolphins.nfl.com

I'll resize them and e-mail them back to you.

Thanks!

[This message has been edited by 82-T/A [At Work] (edited 04-05-2006).]

I'd love to see an upgrade like this, a change to the Top Plenum that would add a few real HP for a decent price and not involve replacing the entire intake.

quote Originally posted by fierochild: ...I have picks of the engine in the car if someone can resize and post for me. Chuck

If you want to send them to me, I'll post them.
I'll be up for hours, and am not working again until Friday night.

I hope you get a trueleo like gain because if not this is what you should do. It has to be a ton easier than what you are doin now.

Holy Crap, Iv`e seen that before---who does this ?

For those of us that don't weld and don't have shops of our own, somebody who came up with a bolt in top plenum replacement would be doing something good. Not looking to win drag races, but an extra 1000RPM on a stock motor would be great. Yes this is self serving.

quote Originally posted by fullcircle: For those of us that don't weld and don't have shops of our own, somebody who came up with a bolt in top plenum replacement would be doing something good. Not looking to win drag races, but an extra 1000RPM on a stock motor would be great. Yes this is self serving.

thats the WCF manifold.
thems you choices - modify your own, WCF, TrueLeo, Edelbrock/carb

i have asked this question before, but this thread looks like it may be filled with people that know a little more about the subject. Does anyone have any info on the WCF intake, or does anyone have one installled on their car, what did they change other then the middle part to let more air in??? Did they change the runner setup? How much does this improve performance?? I have emailed WCF asking them and they have not gotten back to me because they are probably really busy taking orders and such, but if anyone on here has one and wants to share some info on it that would be great. I have heard alot about the trueleo but nothing about the WCF. Nothing against the Trueleo guys cause theirs looks good but i like the stock look a little better and the WCF is pretty close. Oh and i also am kinda curious about the dual throttle body setup, who has that one, did you make it yourself, and what kinda performace does that give you? and if you did make it yourself, how was it done?

[This message has been edited by zmcdonal (edited 04-06-2006).]

I really like the looks of the WCF option. I know some think it is expensive, but what can you do. It's the only option. They should be rewarded for even making something. But anybody have clairfication to this?

Only slight modifications to electrical are required to accomplish this install. - What do they mean by SLIGHT?
1. Relocation of coil pack may be necessary and is recommended in any case for heat reduction. - Where to relocate it to?
2. Removing water lines to the Throttle body and blocking off. - OK
3. Extending vacuum lines.
4. New Air intake tubing from Holly Throttle bodies to air cleaner is provided.
5. Stock Throttle cable and cruise cable are used for this installation. Fuel enrichment via Computer Chip or West Coast Fiero Piggy-back computer will be required. O2 gauge highly recommended for tuning fuel delivery. - Do they provide a Chip? Piggy back computer is more than I want to deal with.

I'd just like to add that this thread was more or less started to show how to improve the STOCK intake.

If I didn't care about looks (the kind I'm going for), then I'd just get the truleo, or hell.. I'd probably carburate my motor and put the hottest cam on it that I could manage.

Many of us however WANT more horsepower... but at the same time, STILL want the car to look stock.
I really really like the look of a car when it looks original. I COULD just as easily drop a 4.9 into my Fiero, but I chose to rebuild my 2.8 into a 3.2. That way, I keep the original motor in my car, AND I still have more displacement. I really want to keep my motor looking 100% stock, but while at the same time trying to improve the performance.

I have 17lb Accel injectors (yellow), and an Accel ignition coil (also yellow).

I painted them BOTH black using DupliColor BLACK engine enamel paint. Now, the injectors and the ignition coil both look 100% stock.

I used to like to modify my car, and I appreciated the fact that it looked modified. But now that the car is at a certain age, I really want to bring back the original look. I've been very meticulous about making sure that everything on my car looks original.

I wanted a CD player in my Fiero. So, I went with a 1991/1992 Pontiac Bonneville CD player. It uses the SAME buttons that the high-end EQ radio uses from the 87 / 88 Tape deck in the Fiero.

This is also my goal with my Fiero. I have a welder, although it's not set up for aluminum. But I would really like to see the gains that he gets from his modifications.

I'm by no means a moderator, but I'm begging that you guys don't hijack this thread with WCF and Truleo intake information.

Thanks!!!

------------------
Todd,
2006 Pontiac Solstice
2004 Volkswagen Beetle Convertible (Wife's Car)
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6 5-Speed
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6 (3.2L) Auto
1984 Pontiac Fiero 2m4 SE
1981 Pontiac TransAm (Olds 455BB)
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

Sorry, I wasn't intending to hijack with WCF. I love what you are doing and totally understand your desire to keep things looking stock or enhance what is already there. I feel the same way. That said, I don't have your skills, so when you are done, if you want to rip of copies of these things and it works well, count me in.

I also was not intending to hijack a thread, i posted my own thread on the difference between WCF intake and the Truleo and didnt really get any info on the pros and cons of each, so since you guys seem to be intake guys, i thought i would give it a shot here, but i was not intending to hijack the thread.

Guys you don't have to have or be a welder to do what I have done. I used a ziz wheel (cut off wheel) to open the neck and bottom of the plenum. I then used a carbide shank bur designed for aluminum to clean up and shape the rough edges around the bottom of the plenum and the neck. I then used various diameter and grit flap wheels to polish and port the inside of the plenum, inside the neck, and enlarge the throttle body flange opening. I used a 60mm throttle body gasket as a guide and scribed a line on the intake flange, then used course flap wheels to enlarge the opening. That was followed up with fine grit flap wheels to polish the flange and inside the neck, and also do a little porting. I then took the plenum to a local welder/fabricator and had him weld a plate on the bottom, fit and weld a curved piece on the underside of the neck, and close in the space between the fingers. Total cost including welder was less than three hundred. When I got it back from the welder i used course, mediun, and fine gasket cleaning pads on a die grinder to grind and clean the welds on top of the plenum. I then had to take the plenum to a machine shop and have the runner flanges milled flat. They had warped during welding. Perhaps if they had been bolted to a middle intake this could have been avoided. Cost an extra 30 bucks. So just because you are not a welder or machinest or do not have a welder you can still do this.

Chuck

Are you going to have a before test? Or are you just going to dyno it with the modified intake on it? I would also wait to call it an improvement over stock, unless its actually proven to make more power on the dyno. Butt meters aren't accurate at all. Also its the cam that determines when the power falls off moreso then the intake. So that dip at 4800 rpm that you claim on the 3.4's is probably due to people use a cam made for low end tq. IE not enough overlap to make power up top.

Stay tuned. I sent four pics of the engine in the car to steve. He will be posting soon.

Chuck

Here they are. Looks great!