here are the pictures this is a remaned long block crate swap so its a little differant then the junkyard swap if you got any questions let me know this took about 3 weeks but could be done faster with less mods and no waiting for parts. i think my total cost so far is 7000.00 lots of mods could be done for under 3000.00
So how is the swap different, besides the huge cost?
So how is the swap different, besides the huge cost?
there are a few things you have to buy that dont come on the 3.4l longblock that are needen for the swap and as fae as cost goes its all up to you, mine cost so much cause i bought all new everything almost if you were to just swap the parts over and add the 17 lb injectors you would only spend about 2000$ but thats with an old water pump, old distributor, old coil, old ........ thats my point i know my fiero is reliable cause its all new and it will last at least another 15years. after turbo only 10years but in 10yrs who knows what will be going on. i will probly get a notichie for fun and through a ecotec in it lol :?)
[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 12-30-2007).]
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06:00 PM
sardonyx247 Member
Posts: 5032 From: Nevada, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Did you ever read my thread? I did a 3.4 swap for around $900 including $200 in paint and powdercoating supplies. New water pump, rollor tipped rockers, new lifters, new pushrods, etc. My second rebuild was new parts, forged pistons, ported heads, ported intakes, built. And I don't think I even spent $2000
sorry for the late response but i noticed people were going by 14psi being double the na hp. i dont see how this would work, 14psi out of a k03(vw 1.8t) will flow much less air than a 60-1 at the same level of boost. since airflow not pressure determines hp this cant work.
on another note what kind of boost pressure can a 3.4 take with a good tune for a long period of time, lets say 60,000 miles.
Did you ever read my thread? I did a 3.4 swap for around $900 including $200 in paint and powdercoating supplies. New water pump, rollor tipped rockers, new lifters, new pushrods, etc. My second rebuild was new parts, forged pistons, ported heads, ported intakes, built. And I don't think I even spent $2000
most of that work you did your self, most pepole cant do that, so take your $2000 in parts and add the cost of a machine shop and i bet mine is cheeper, also the 3.4l p/r is not the best engine its the easyest, if you want 300+hp go with a differant engine. i would say my swap is more for the beginning fiero owner who just want reliabilaty with a little more performance. thats why i did the 3.4l swap it was cheep and reliable so i could save up and plan out my next fiero swap with out just leaving the fiero sit behind my garage. rite now i can think of 6 fiero's that are parked behind garages in my town and its sad.
dont get me wrong your swap inspired me to do a 3.4l and i respect your build but honestly a 3800 swap is better for performance and would probly cost the same if not less for the avrage person.
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07:05 PM
sardonyx247 Member
Posts: 5032 From: Nevada, USA Registered: Jun 2003
most of that work you did your self, most pepole cant do that, so take your $2000 in parts and add the cost of a machine shop and i bet mine is cheeper, also the 3.4l p/r is not the best engine its the easyest, if you want 300+hp go with a differant engine. i would say my swap is more for the beginning fiero owner who just want reliabilaty with a little more performance. thats why i did the 3.4l swap it was cheep and reliable so i could save up and plan out my next fiero swap with out just leaving the fiero sit behind my garage. rite now i can think of 6 fiero's that are parked behind garages in my town and its sad.
dont get me wrong your swap inspired me to do a 3.4l and i respect your build but honestly a 3800 swap is better for performance and would probly cost the same if not less for the avrage person.
My price did include the machine shop costs too, so no yours is not / would not be cheaper. But how can you say you did it to be cheap when you spent 7 grand? And besides in Vegas we were only charging around $2000 total including engine, labor, etc to swap one into a Fiero. If you want a brand new engine, a crate engine can be bought from a GM dealer for $1600. I never said that the 3.4L was the best engine, just a very good replacement for a dead 2.8 Besides the "average" person does not drive a Fiero.
My price did include the machine shop costs too, so no yours is not / would not be cheaper. But how can you say you did it to be cheap when you spent 7 grand? And besides in Vegas we were only charging around $2000 total including engine, labor, etc to swap one into a Fiero. If you want a brand new engine, a crate engine can be bought from a GM dealer for $1600. I never said that the 3.4L was the best engine, just a very good replacement for a dead 2.8 Besides the "average" person does not drive a Fiero.
if you read my build you will see i did a lot more than just a engine swap. so yor saying all fiero owners are ASE certified?? i dont think so.
and if i lived in vagas i would probly bring my car to you, but i dont live in vagas or even navada. the price of machine work must cost less there here in oregon it would cost $1000 just for a stock rebuild and $350-$400 a head for port and polishing so just in labor its $1700 and then you have to add the cost of the used 3.4l engine and the cost of what ever you want to put in or on it.
so i guess the resault of this discussion is why dont you sell built 3.4 ready for swap with all the upgrades you listed for $2000+shipping cause i would have bought one and i know a coupple camaro guys that would to.
theh things listed NEEDED FOR SWAP are the things you have to buy for a 3.4l swap the rest are upgrades or done for reliabilaty
here are just some of the things i did. larger oil filter KYB GR-2 GR2 SHOCKS STRUTS PONTIAC FIERO 84 - 87 255LPH FUEL PUMP EBAY turbo 84-87 HEAVY DUTY REAR SWAY BAR W/ MOUNTING HARDWARE 84-87 HEAVY DUTY 1" FRONT SWAYBAR W/ MOUNTING HARDWARE 84-88 CLUTCH PEDAL ASSEMBLY WCF Fiero Dog-Bone Long Tube headers with "Y" pipe (Steel) 85-88 MSD IGNITION COIL WCF 3.4L Flywheel_____________________needed for swap WCF V6 Engine mount WCF Trans mount left WCF Trans mount right Stage 3 Clutch and Pressure plate Aluminum cradle bushings A Arm Poly bushings upper and lower front A Arm Poly bushings upper and lower rear remanufactured 1995 3.4l camaro/firebird engine_________________needed for swap new distributor new water pump new optima battery lager cold air filter 17lbs injectors_________________nedded for swap outlaw muffler c5 corvette tips short shift arms, stifter, bracket from rodney d's\ coilovers in the rear 2in drop in the front recoverd all the wires in the evgine comartment 3.4l oil pickup for the oil pump_______________________needed for swap paint and gaskets ect.______________________needed for swap all this cost around 7000$ and was worth it
on one of your swaps for $2000 what do you replace and how much of it is new or remanufactured?
[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 12-30-2007).]
why are we debating i say use a remaned engine thats all and there are a few things you need to get to do this. other than that we are saying the same thing get a 3.4l for reliabilaty and a small performance upgrade. we just have differant ways to get it done but in the end almost the same results = 3.4 running below 210hp for a decent price and stock looks. the second part of this thread is just the adding of a turbo its not the only way but i think its the best for me.
just got more fiero parts in the mail. woohoo new rear hubs rebuild parts for my front hubs new ball joints and tierod ends should be putting them on soon im still waiting for the rest of my turbo parts to get here. I will post as soon as they do
Originally posted by megafreakindeth: sorry for the late response but i noticed people were going by 14psi being double the na hp. i dont see how this would work, 14psi out of a k03(vw 1.8t) will flow much less air than a 60-1 at the same level of boost. since airflow not pressure determines hp this cant work.
Doubling the pressure/doubling the hp assumes 100% VE and a linear increase in flow which is theoretical only. It's a WAG for planning purposes.
My price did include the machine shop costs too, so no yours is not / would not be cheaper. But how can you say you did it to be cheap when you spent 7 grand? And besides in Vegas we were only charging around $2000 total including engine, labor, etc to swap one into a Fiero. If you want a brand new engine, a crate engine can be bought from a GM dealer for $1600. I never said that the 3.4L was the best engine, just a very good replacement for a dead 2.8 Besides the "average" person does not drive a Fiero.
my complete 3.4 HO rebuilt with a cam and bigger pistons cost me around 2k and thats including machine shop, but than again i can see how you can spent 7k with extra parts and a turbo. it still kind of high if you ask me. for that much i would of gone with the 3.8 sc
so ok my dream fiero is to get my car to look like this and i found the rims to do it oddly enuf they are made by year one they were made for the bandit car but can be ordered for the same price for the fiero the dream the rim
That car looks good. I would not want to drive it on anything but a summer day on smooth roads. Whose car is it?
its a photo chop stock rims only turned black and lowered this is what i want my car to look like all i need is to smoth out the trim then do the tint and get the wheels.
[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 01-23-2008).]
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03:50 PM
Jan 26th, 2008
Zefyr Member
Posts: 38 From: White River, NV Registered: Aug 2005
Your stupidity and useless mods are entertaining.... LOL have fun! Maybe when you get dissapointed with your engine and lack of knowledge you will listen to the experienced. Sure wish I lived near by and had a machine shop, I'd be rich. Whoever is, is quite happy with your money.
[This message has been edited by Zefyr (edited 01-26-2008).]
Your stupidity and useless mods are entertaining.... LOL have fun! Maybe when you get dissapointed with your engine and lack of knowledge you will listen to the experienced. Sure wish I lived near by and had a machine shop, I'd be rich. Whoever is, is quite happy with your money.
this guy is an idiot id like to see what he drives.....ahhh i see he is just a talker my bet is he's never done a build of his own. my sugestion to you Zefyr is to be a little more open minded and dont nasay things you dont know about.
[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 01-27-2008).]
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10:33 AM
Zefyr Member
Posts: 38 From: White River, NV Registered: Aug 2005
You have no idea who you are talking about, I choose not to do any of my builds on PFF beacause I don't like being asked stupid Q's, that and I have no intention of arming the ill of wit with any knowledge, that one can easily obtain on his own, for fear that they may inadvertantly commit suicide. You have been warned. With that said please continue to empty your wallet for everyone's entertainment. If you want to continue this feel free to E-mail me or PM me and save the flaming.
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12:58 PM
rjblaze Member
Posts: 1159 From: Bethlehem, Pa., United States Registered: May 2006
Just remember that a "Zefyr" is nothing more than a stiff breeze. Keep on truckin'!
lol nice. notice he has 19 total posts i would be surprized if he even has a fiero i dont think theare is one upgrade that ive done that was a waste of money the reason for the large turbo was it was for another engine and i just wanted to see if it would work at all aka i was just playing around with spare parts.
[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 01-27-2008).]
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06:59 PM
PFF
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Jan 28th, 2008
sardonyx247 Member
Posts: 5032 From: Nevada, USA Registered: Jun 2003
this guy is an idiot id like to see what he drives.....ahhh i see he is just a talker my bet is he's never done a build of his own. my sugestion to you Zefyr is to be a little more open minded and dont nasay things you dont know about.
Just a talker? why because he has few posts? Here are just a few swaps I've done with Zefyr. From here down. Oh and the two other turbo swaps before that.
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06:26 PM
Zefyr Member
Posts: 38 From: White River, NV Registered: Aug 2005
First off Zefyr is my first name, no need to hide behind a false screen name. Second thing, a "zephyr" is NOT a "stiff" breeze at all, but rather the God of the west wind, see zephyr Keep on truckin' indeed.
quote
Originally posted by rjblaze:
Just remember that a "Zefyr" is nothing more than a stiff breeze. Keep on truckin'!
[This message has been edited by Zefyr (edited 01-28-2008).]
Just a talker? why because he has few posts? Here are just a few swaps I've done with Zefyr. From here down. Oh and the two other turbo swaps before that.
1# i do all the work on my car. so for Zefyr to come and try to judge anything i do is retarded, its like me saying what you do is retarded and a waste of money, i would not do that because i dont know you and dont know what type of work you do.
2# Zefyr came on my thread and tells me im stupid with no cause or explanation if he is looking for a fight i will drive to seattle when he gets there. nooooo problem only a short drive from oregon.
3# i dont see what the connection between you and zefyr is.......but where i come from sh*t takers dont have to many friends so im guessing he is your son or your lover.
4# if any one thinks i paid to much for what i did to my car.......WHO CARES its my car. if you realy want to know what cost so much just ask and i will try to remember every thing that ive replaced and post it on here, let me just say its a lot of stuff.
5# im done b*t<h fighting with you two if you dont have somthing positive to add or real questions to ask about this thread please KEEP OFF and i will pay you the same respect thanks.
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11:34 PM
Jan 29th, 2008
rjblaze Member
Posts: 1159 From: Bethlehem, Pa., United States Registered: May 2006
"1a......a breeze from the west" " b......a gentle breeze"
I can read too......and I have known this definition for about 30 years or so......it was our high-school mascot!
Like he said........don't just come on to someone's thread and start ripping it apart! I don't believe you would like it if your thread was immediately attacked by him or anyone else by telling you how stupid your stuff was, how stupid you are, or how you are wasting your own money. Most people on this forum use CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and ask question to help steer the "unknowing" onto the (hopefully) correct path. I do not get on a soap-box very often on this forum because there is generally great information being passed along between each of us, but your first post on this thread was to tell someone how stupid they are? Please think about this.
BOB
[This message has been edited by rjblaze (edited 01-29-2008).]
"1a......a breeze from the west" " b......a gentle breeze"
I can read too......and I have known this definition for about 30 years or so......it was our high-school mascot!
Like he said........don't just come on to someone's thread and start ripping it apart! I don't believw you would like it if your thread was immediately attacked by hin or anyone else by telling you how stupid your stuff was, how stupid you are, or how you are wasting your own money. Most people on this forum use CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and ask question to help steer the "unknowing" onto the (hopefully) correct path. I do not get on a soap-box very often on this forum because there is generally great information being passed along between each of us, but your first post on this thread was to tell someone how stupid they are? Please think about this.
BOB
well said
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09:29 AM
Zefyr Member
Posts: 38 From: White River, NV Registered: Aug 2005
OK, I think I have pissed you guys off enough lol. I appologize but I am still quite confused as to why you chose a few things. Why bother with the 7730 ECM? The '85 Fiero ECM works very well with boost all the way to the 2 bar map sensor's limit of 14.7psi. Why the WCF clutch setup and the WCF flywheel, were you aware the same item can be purchaced from checker online for $40? http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com <--- look up their parts for the Fiero.
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03:13 PM
sardonyx247 Member
Posts: 5032 From: Nevada, USA Registered: Jun 2003
You said that Zefyr has not done any engine builds, so I posted a link to some of the swaps he has done, and you attack me. Whats up with that? He is my friend btw and we did 7 3.4L swaps this last summer, so he does have alot of experience with Fieros and swaping engines. FYI
OK, I think I have pissed you guys off enough lol. I appologize but I am still quite confused as to why you chose a few things. Why bother with the 7730 ECM? The '85 Fiero ECM works very well with boost all the way to the 2 bar map sensor's limit of 14.7psi. Why the WCF clutch setup and the WCF flywheel, were you aware the same item can be purchaced from checker online for $40? http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com <--- look up their parts for the Fiero.
see thats so much better
1# Q: Why bother with the 7730 ECM? A: i dont have a 85 fiero ecm so eather way im swapping the ecm and the 7730 is said to be better tunning, and if i decide latter on down the road to change over to DIS ingnition i can. for more info check here https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/079574.html 2# Q: Why the WCF clutch setup and the WCF flywheel A: the clutch setup is a stage 3 kevlar\kevlar with a 9-11/16 inch diameter stock is only 9-1/8 leverage is power, the stage 3 holds way better then the stock one, and the flywheel cause i just needed a flywheel i only paid 50 for the flywheel so im not to upset about it im not gonna cry over 10 dollars.
with all that said i did not see the same item from checker. i saw other performace clutches but none that compare in my mind to the wcf setup.
[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 01-29-2008).]
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09:48 PM
Steven Snyder Member
Posts: 3324 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Mar 2004
Whoa, I thought this was a good detailed build thread and a commendable build overall. Why are you guys giving the guy such a hard time?
The 7730 ECM is the "aftermarket" of GM ECMs. It is so well hacked that you can do pretty much anything with it. The program code has been completely disassembled and understood. There are lots of modified code masks available to add things like wideband O2 sensor readout and whatnot. It's very easy to program for understanding boost. While the 85 GT ECM might work, the program code for it is just not as well disassembled as the 7730 so its not so easy to tune with.
OK, I think I have pissed you guys off enough lol. I appologize but I am still quite confused as to why you chose a few things. Why bother with the 7730 ECM? The '85 Fiero ECM works very well with boost all the way to the 2 bar map sensor's limit of 14.7psi. Why the WCF clutch setup and the WCF flywheel, were you aware the same item can be purchaced from checker online for $40? http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com <--- look up their parts for the Fiero.
The 7730 kicks the crap out of the 85 ecm HARD. I suggest you learn how to tune ECM's and the differences between them. It reacts faster and has a crapload more cells for tuning. the 85 ECM up to 2 BAR has an incredibly small number of cells available for boost and regular tuning. No of you want a really good running 3.4 swap or are even interested in Boost you upgrade to the 7730 ECM. Plus I can upgrade to DIS and get even better results under boost. Just looking at the bin files under tunerpro you can easily see what ECM you want for boost. Plus the 7730 you can get a stock Prom that is most of the way there for boost. (Pontiac 3.1 turbo) only minor tweaks and you are on the road, perfect for a newbie to ECM tuning. the 85GT ECM you have to pay for a starter prom to get going.
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08:38 AM
FieroFanatic13 Member
Posts: 3521 From: Big Rapids, MI, USA Registered: Jul 2006
If I have one of the original Miller-Woods turbo kits on my car, can I upgrade to the 7730 ECM easily? Will it truly improve my performance? How much would it cost me?
-Gary
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11:51 AM
Zefyr Member
Posts: 38 From: White River, NV Registered: Aug 2005
Unfourtunately the 3.1L code is useless and very bad for the iron head 3.4L due to the different head design. The aluminum heads are a 'fast burn' head and require less timing. So when you use that code with an iron head engine you will have disappointing results. Also if you really do know how to tune an ECM you can use the 85 ECM and it works just fine for a daily driver under boost conditions. I do understand that the 85 ECM is incredibly slow in response time and it cuts the resolution in half when you add a 2 bar MAP to the code but it still works with reliable results. Pay for a "starter prom"? Wtf are you talking about?
quote
Originally posted by timgray:
The 7730 kicks the crap out of the 85 ecm HARD. I suggest you learn how to tune ECM's and the differences between them. It reacts faster and has a crapload more cells for tuning. the 85 ECM up to 2 BAR has an incredibly small number of cells available for boost and regular tuning. No of you want a really good running 3.4 swap or are even interested in Boost you upgrade to the 7730 ECM. Plus I can upgrade to DIS and get even better results under boost. Just looking at the bin files under tunerpro you can easily see what ECM you want for boost. Plus the 7730 you can get a stock Prom that is most of the way there for boost. (Pontiac 3.1 turbo) only minor tweaks and you are on the road, perfect for a newbie to ECM tuning. the 85GT ECM you have to pay for a starter prom to get going.
[This message has been edited by Zefyr (edited 02-06-2008).]
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05:03 PM
rjblaze Member
Posts: 1159 From: Bethlehem, Pa., United States Registered: May 2006
Isn't the '85 GT ecm the one that Design1 used for their turbo 2.8 setup to help include a knock sensor? Seems to me that, even tho' the 7730 is much faster and more tunable, the '85 ecm could work just fine for a "daily driver" type of turbo 2.8. Now if you really want to get serious about tuning your turbo motor, then the 7730 seems to be the way to go.
If I have one of the original Miller-Woods turbo kits on my car, can I upgrade to the 7730 ECM easily? Will it truly improve my performance? How much would it cost me?
im sorry for the delay if any one is interested in this build. i am in the prosses of returning home to oregon and have had no time to work on the fiero. soon i will be installing new ball joints and new hubs and berrings. and once im back in oregon i will continue my turbo setup. thank you for your interest. but at least im leaving alaska and can drive my fiero more than 3 months out of the year. yippie
[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 03-02-2008).]
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03:15 AM
Mar 3rd, 2008
Steven Snyder Member
Posts: 3324 From: Los Angeles, CA Registered: Mar 2004
Just thought you might want to be aware of this issue with Venom injectors: http://supraforums.com/foru...wthread.php?t=393612 You should have them flowtested before you blow up your motor! Apparently Venom is sending out injectors that are not at all the flow ratings they are sold as...
