quote Originally posted by Fino: Sorry you can't get your buffer working. I sure hope you find a way to get it to work.

I'm sure the buffer works, just not with a 96 cruise module which was controlled directly by the ECM. I think I'll have to get a cruise module from a car that HAD a buffer for the cruise module like a 92 Caprice because they seem to work together. You may find you'll have problems getting your module working with the older ECM.

[This message has been edited by fierosound (edited 04-07-2008).]

I just went for a drive to test my new cruise control and it does work great, no lag and no hunt. I am using the 7730 computer. But my speedo is using the old VSS to a printed circuit for now. I will change it later to run off the new 7730 computer.

Ed

congradulations, Ed . A few questions that might help a lot of us:

1. Did you have to ground terminal H of the Electronic cruise control ? The diagram says this is the "Cruise Inhibit signal" and some modules will need this circuit left "open", or will need this circuit grounded to operate properly, depending on the vehicle origin.

2. Did you splice into the WHT or LT BLU Fiero Brake Lamp switch ?

3. Now that you have a working system, can you now change ONLY the 4000 ppm signal wire to the electronic cruise control. Take off the 7730 feed and connect the green 4000 ppm feed from the yellow buffer box and tell us if the electronic cruise control still works.

Thank you.

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 04-07-2008).]

I went to study the car for this cruise control project and decided to check the VSS wires. When I pulled them out of the loom there were about 3 splices and 3 different wires hacked together. They were routed past the spark plug wires to the passenger side, then to the alternator and taped to the large red alternator power wire !!!! Hmmmm, if anyone wanted to MAXIMIZE electrical intereference (and cause the speedo problems) THIS is the way they would have done it.

I re-wired them to the driver's side, soldered the connections, twisted them around each other, tested them with a meter and wrapped them in a layer of aluminum tape before securing them into the loom again. I now have (shielded) factory yellow and purple wire from the transmission to the connector behind the ECU. I think i found out why my speedo was bouncing .....

[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 04-08-2008).]

quote Originally posted by PaulJK: congradulations, Ed . A few questions that might help a lot of us: 1. Did you have to ground terminal H of the Electronic cruise control ? The diagram says this is the "Cruise Inhibit signal" and some modules will need this circuit left "open", or will need this circuit grounded to operate properly, depending on the vehicle origin. 2. Did you splice into the WHT or LT BLU Fiero Brake Lamp switch ? 3. Now that you have a working system, can you now change ONLY the 4000 ppm signal wire to the electronic cruise control. Take off the 7730 feed and connect the green 4000 ppm feed from the yellow buffer box and tell us if the electronic cruise control still works. Thank you.

1. If people find the their cruise code (such as AR) needs to be grounded or not grounded, I will keep track on the first page if you send me a PM. This will help others as they install their cruise.

2. White

3. I don't have a "yellow buffer box ".

Ed

Did you have to ground your AR cruise unit using that connection?

quote Originally posted by PaulJK: Did you have to ground your AR cruise unit using that connection?

Yes

From page one:

Pin "H" needs to be grounded or left open depending on vehicle origin. This list will tell you what cruise code needs to be grounded and what ones do not.

1. Cruise control code "AR" grounded.

Ed

thank you, Ed

Just wanted to say my cruise had some problems I had to workout with the brake switch. I have remote start and LED taillights. The cruise worked OK untill I turned on the lights then no cruise. Everything works now I had to make some wire changes.

That wire (WHT) is VERY sensitive, the cruise needs to see a ground when the brakes are NOT applied and power when brakes are applied. My LED lights have a feedback from taillights.

Ed

I have an 86 SE and looking at the schematics there is reference to a light blue wire going to the C500 J9 not used this comes from the brake switch circuit. circuit # 20 does anyone know if this wire actually exists? I am looking for a way to get all the signals to the new cruise with out adding wires i will run my 4kvss on the tan wire rather than the brake interrupt if this light blue wire exists. I have never dug into that connector and at first glance is a little intimidating. In response to needing a ground when no brake and 12vdc when brakes are applied, sound like we may need a relay in the circuit.
Mike

quote Originally posted by mswenson289: I have an 86 SE and looking at the schematics there is reference to a light blue wire going to the C500 J9 not used this comes from the brake switch circuit. circuit # 20 does anyone know if this wire actually exists? I am looking for a way to get all the signals to the new cruise with out adding wires i will run my 4kvss on the tan wire rather than the brake interrupt if this light blue wire exists. I have never dug into that connector and at first glance is a little intimidating. In response to needing a ground when no brake and 12vdc when brakes are applied, sound like we may need a relay in the circuit. Mike

I think you are looking at the schematics using the brake relay. On the other schematics (method 1) it shows WHT connects to TAN then you use the wire in the engine compartment (this is the one I used).

I would use the WHT wire on the brake switch to start with then if it does not work go to a different system.

When you connect to the WHT wire:
When the switch is open, there is a path to ground through the brake lights.
When the switch is closed power from the "Stop/haz" fuse goes to stop lights and cruise.

Ed

EDIT:
My service manual is a 1985 and does not have the "center mounted high level stop lamp" diagram in it and that might me the #20 circuit you are talking about.

[This message has been edited by Fino (edited 04-14-2008).]

Just an FYI on the C500 J9 wire it is there on 86 and later at least, I pulled the C500 connector and found J9 pinned on the chassis side, and was able to find the light blue wire going to it. I will use this for my brake interrupt circuit, should still get the ground thru the third brake light. This will allow me to run my 4k vss signal on the tan wire and not have to run any additional wires to the engine bay. Just thought I would let you know.
Mike

Bump


Anyone get this working yet, or is it time to undo a lot of wiring modifications?

Got my braket done this week end and wanted to share.

The next couple of pics show just the braket


Here I attrached the "PS" style cable with the braket you will notice I had to move it foward of orginal mounting postion.



This photo thing is new to me and I hope I didn't mess up to bad.

[This message has been edited by mswenson289 (edited 04-22-2008).]

quote Originally posted by mswenson289: Got my braket done this week end and wanted to share. This photo thing is new to me and I hope I didn't mess up to bad.

Great going you learn FAST!!!

Ed

Very nice. I need to finish my bracket and see if I can't get this sucker to work. I don't have the same cruise module some of you seem to. I don't recall the exact code on it, but it's not the AR module, it's about twice the size and it's from the Caprice like Klingon Fiero used.

Anybody have a handy source to pick up one of these cheap?

They are on about every other car at the u-pull lot. I think locally they charge $15.00 for one but shipping would not make it worth it.

No u-pull-em's nearby as far as I know. Friggin yards around here think their crap is equal to its weight in gold...

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: I don't recall the exact code on it, but it's not the AR module, it's about twice the size and it's from the Caprice like Klingon Fiero used.

I saw 2 of those today on Caprice Classics. One was marked with NN and the other was NK. Both cars had V8 engines, but I don't think it matters. Couldn't tell what the years were. I was gonna pick one up, but I already have the AR unit.

One of these days I'll actually remember to look at mine and see what the code on it is. I assume there is a difference between the models and it is probably related to their size (the module seems to get smaller the newer you get), so I think this may have something to do with why KlingonFiero got this to work and no one else has, because it sounds like everyone else is using the newer, smaller model that may be wired/programmed differently.

Alright, I took a look at mine today and it has no markings, at least not like the other units I've seen. No big white sticker with a 2 letter code, though it does have AC stamped into the casing, but I don't know if that's the same thing. At any rate, it is different than the AR and similar units some of you have, so I'm still optimistic that mine may work.

Also, I dug up KlingonFiero's original thread, and some of the problems we're having may be due to the fact that he installed the unit into an '84 and he had a Digital Dash from the Caprice also installed, giving him the 4k ppm signal we need. Read more here:

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...030531-2-030708.html

Well just to keep this alive. I thought I would include a pic. of my module mounted. At least another three weeks till I can test it but I will report my finding when it finally happens.



Mike

Ah, so that's where my sticker is. It looks like you have the same module as me, but I'll have to see if I can see the sticker.

^^^ anyone else get this working?

No chance to play with it yet.

I'll offer up two things here.

1. For those trying to use the 4k output from the speedometer (it is there on later clusters), try adding a 1k ohm resistor from the output to +12V. I think that output is open collector and wants the circuit it's driving to supply the pull up. The digital cruise might not do that. Someone might want to give that a shot.

2. Go to the Syclone/Typhoon or Chevy Truck sites and search for DRAC. They are the digital ratio adapters used to take a VSS and divide and multiple for speedo, cruise, ABS, etc. I've run them with a 4k PPM signal they work fine. The other side is that you can do some fine tuning of the speedo signal to dial in for tire sizes (the output has to go through Rockcrawls resistor/cap buffer). The DRAC is intended for use with a 24k PPM signal but they will work with 4k(with less range).

You can get DRACs out of Astro vans under the dash on the right side of the steering column. I think they are by the glove box in S10. Not sure in the full size truck. There are two versions I know of, the 7 and 14 switch versions. You can find the docs for both online.All of the DRACs I've pulled are white rectangle boxes. Grab the connector while you are there.

Just some options.

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 05-06-2008).]

I have also been interested in this since I saw it mentioned in the 7730 thread. Well I have just got the 7730 ecm installed in my fiero and its great, I would highly recommend it, it’s really easy to install too. Anyway now that it looks like brackets have been made to fit and such I was wondering what the parts break down is.

So far I gather:
Electronic cruise module ( the PS model has the right length cable and the proper connector for the TB according to the quote below?)
Bracket for the module (or make your own)
Bracket to hold the cable by the throttle body.

quote Originally posted by mswenson289: Cool, I found a unit marked PS rather than AR that had the proper length cable, wire colors matched and TB connection was correct. So the bracket is of the most concern at this time.

Then just some wiring.


Am I missing anything?
I assume the electronic cruise module can be take out of many cars, any year range to look for?
The Buffer box isn't needed with the 7730, correct?

[This message has been edited by bnevets27 (edited 05-14-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Fino: The wiring diagrams for this buffer box can be downloaded here: VSSbufferWIRING.jpg This yellow "4-out" buffer box was used in many mid-late 80's GM cars such as the Pontiac Firebird, Pontiac Grand Am, Chevy Cavalier, etc; and can usually be found piggy-backing the ECM.

New URL for wiring diagrams for this yellow 4-out speedo buffer box: http://www.gmtuners.com/files/4-OUT_BUFFER.pdf

my fiero also has the 1227730 ecm conversion controlling the LX9 3500. so i will be doing this to get my cruise back

Or...

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...030531-2-030708.html

After a couple of bad stalks mine works with the 7730 ecm wired as prescribed.
Mike

quote Originally posted by Fino: Credits: Posted by Darth Fiero On ECM upgrade https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../079574-14.html#p557 Here is a wiring diagram from a 1988 Fiero that shows the proposed electo-power steering VSS wire. This wire might be a 4000ppm signal that can be used with the "digital" cruise control... FieroVSS.pdf If that doesn't work, and you don't want to buy the aftermarket SGI-5 interface, you should be able to use a factory GM speedo buffer box from a 80's GM car. These boxes look like this: The wiring diagrams for this buffer box can be downloaded here: VSSbufferWIRING.jpg This yellow "4-out" buffer box was used in many mid-late 80's GM cars such as the Pontiac Firebird, Pontiac Grand Am, Chevy Cavalier, etc; and can usually be found piggy-backing the ECM. But before getting one of these buffer boxes I encourage someone to try hooking up to that "M" terminal coming off the stock Fiero speedometer to see if that works. -ryan

Ok, can someone please tell me EXACTLY where to find one of these? I tore apart 6 different GM cars, trucks and vans and could not find this buffer on any of them, under the hood or under the dash. Not near the ECM or anywhere else for that matter. I'd like to eventually finish this project, and I need this module to do it.

Bump!

Fino? Anybody? A little help with this thing?

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: Bump! Fino? Anybody? A little help with this thing?

This yellow "4-out" buffer box was used in many mid-late 80's GM cars such as the Pontiac Firebird, Pontiac Grand Am, Chevy Cavalier, etc; and can usually be found piggy-backing the ECM.

New URL for wiring diagrams for this yellow 4-out speedo buffer box: http://www.gmtuners.com/files/4-OUT_BUFFER.pdf

But before getting one of these buffer boxes I encourage you to try hooking up to that "M" terminal coming off the stock Fiero speedometer to see if that works.

Ed

Right, I read all that in your first post on it and I went to the junkyard and pulled apart several F-bodies, trucks, vans and passenger cars and did not find a single buffer box anywhere on any of them. I spent several hours pulling apart more than half a dozen dashboards and not a single one had this buffer. Can you please tell me exactly where to find one? Doesn't matter which car it is, just pick one and tell me where it is. The yards here are big, I'll find the right car.

As for the speedo thing, I don't own a soldering iron and even if I did, I don't know how to solder it correctly, so there's really no point to my tearing apart my instrument cluster and destroying it.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: Right, I read all that in your first post on it and I went to the junkyard and pulled apart several F-bodies, trucks, vans and passenger cars and did not find a single buffer box anywhere on any of them. I spent several hours pulling apart more than half a dozen dashboards and not a single one had this buffer. Can you please tell me exactly where to find one? Doesn't matter which car it is, just pick one and tell me where it is. The yards here are big, I'll find the right car. As for the speedo thing, I don't own a soldering iron and even if I did, I don't know how to solder it correctly, so there's really no point to my tearing apart my instrument cluster and destroying it.

I have a speedo in storage from an 86 Z28 that has what is apparently a speedo buffer attached, although it is smaller than the one pictured above it is in a yellow plastic casing that is in line with the attached speedo harness itself. It's about half the size of what you see in the picture.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 09-23-2008).]

Hmm I'll definitely keep an eye out for one of those then. Does any else know exactly where to find the buffer pictured above? I appreciate the help.

I did not find any of the buffers today although I really wasn't looking hard as i have the 7730 swap. I did find the AY, AG, and AR type digital cruises are identical except for the length of the throttle cable (AR being longest) and the cable ends. The cables come off easy enough and can be swapped around too. Also the wiring connector was interchangeable although the wire colors were different. The pins were exactly the same.

My question: Can I use any cruise stalk I find in the junkyard? Or is there a Fiero specific one I need? I'll keep reading the other threads to see if the question has already been answered.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: Right, I read all that in your first post on it and I went to the junkyard and pulled apart several F-bodies, trucks, vans and passenger cars and did not find a single buffer box anywhere on any of them. I spent several hours pulling apart more than half a dozen dashboards and not a single one had this buffer. Can you please tell me exactly where to find one? Doesn't matter which car it is, just pick one and tell me where it is. The yards here are big, I'll find the right car.

1985-89 Firebird / Trans Am / GTA. I also think you might find one in the same year range Grand Ams, Cutlass Calais, etc and other similar body style FWD GM cars; but the Firebird will be your best bet. In the Firebird, it can be found piggy-backing the ECM which is located on the right side of the dash above where the passenger's feet would be. CAMARO DOES NOT USE THIS BOX. 1982-89 Camaros used cable-drive speedos and there was an OPTICAL VSS sensor mounted on the back of the speedometer in these cars. 1990-up Firebirds AND Camaros had the VSS signal processed by the ECM directly.

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5+ years on this same swap -- NO engine or transmission failures...

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