I was looking for info about the exterior colors the Fiero was available.

I saw that two solid red was available in the production run from '1984 to 1988.

The first solid red available was what Pontiac called "Fiero Red" , GM code 71 and Fisher WA-8553. Production number show that it was available in 1984 and 1985.

The second solid red was what Pontiac called "Bright Red", GM code 81 and Fisher WA-8774. Production numbers show that it was available in 1986 and 1988.

This is where my questionning came on.

Several person reported that the "Bright red" of 1986 and 1988 was not the same, and other say it was.

The problem seem to came from the 1986 model year that seem to come with the remnant of the Fiero Red and the start of the Bright Red in the same year. Owners reported to have an '86 with WA-8553 color code (RPO 81) while other '86 owners reported to have the WA-8774 (RPO 81) on their respective RPO sticker (lies?).

It is possible that the change in red was an '86 running change? Like was the change in the GT body style in this same year?

Does anybody know when this change came effective? a date?

Like Bright Silver Mettallic is know to be discontinued in April of the '86 model year run (running change), maybe a date is known of when the chage of red came effective?

When you look at production numbers available on the net and in different club publication, no mention of the "Fiero Red" availability in 1986, and "Fiero Red" is not available in the exterior color GM/Pontiac official 1986 pamphlet.
Thanks for your help.

Edit: People with an 1986 red Fiero can simply just reply by telling the 5th digit of their serial number , WA code they have on their RPO sticker , the RPO color code and the date of manufacturing of their car if they can still read it. If your Fiero is NOT an 86, please dont reply to this last request (by checking the 10th digit of your serial, be sure its "G") .

The WA can be found at the bottom of the RPO sticker on the left inner fender (inside the car front compartment)
The RPO color code can be found on this same sticker. Look for 71, 71U, 81 or 81U.
The date of manufacturing is on a sticker on the frame of the driver door.

[This message has been edited by perry rhodan (edited 11-25-2008).]

The "Fiero Spotter's Guide" lists the same Bright Red code for 86, 88 (81 code) and code 71 for the 84-85. Almost anything can be possible as the bright blue metallic offered on the 87 only has been found on a very few earlier years cars with the correct paint code listed on the rpo sheet.

If anyone would know as to dates of changes would be Fred Bartemeyer. He seems to have lots of information of Fiero trivia.

The most curious thing is my '86 GT.... the RPO sticker specifies an RPO 81, that mean its the GM color code for BRIGHT RED. But at the bottom of the sticker, the Fisher color code is WA-8553...normaly associated with the GM color code 71, FIERO RED (or simply RED)....

Outch!...some headache....

delete

[This message has been edited by Robert 2 (edited 12-07-2008).]

And your color RPO is 81...I know ...but any 88 information will not help what I'm looking for.

Need '86 info from all owners of an factory (genuine or repainted) red '86 Fiero.

Need your color RPO, your WA code , the date of mfg and the 5th digit of your serial number.

Please, be sure that your 10th digit of your serial is the letter "G"


Edit:
@Old Lar : Where I can find this Fred Bartemeyer ? does he have a website? email adress? or hes on this forum?

Sorry folks Ive just realized that RAREW86 is the guy who had purchased some rare and precious PPG Fieros.

[This message has been edited by perry rhodan (edited 11-24-2008).]

quote Originally posted by perry rhodan: Edit: @Old Lar : Where I can find this Fred Bartemeyer ? does he have a website? email adress? or hes on this forum?

He is RAREW66 on the forum. He owns some very rare Fieros, and knows a lot about Fiero history.

I will shot him a PM right now to see what he think about all this. Maybe he have a start of an answer on this mess.

I have a 1986 SE, VIN 1G2PF3793GP227448 which shows RPO #81 and WA-8553. Not sure where to find the manufacturing date, otherwise I'd post it.

quote Originally posted by perry rhodan: People with an 1986 red Fiero can simply just reply by putting the WA code they have on their RPO sticker and the date of manufacturing of their car if they can still read it.

I've a 1986 red Fiero GT, and would be happy to supply you the information you've requested, but where is this "RPO sticker" you mention and the date of manufacture for the car located?

quote Originally posted by project34: I've a 1986 red Fiero GT, and would be happy to supply you the information you've requested, but where is this "RPO sticker" you mention and the date of manufacture for the car located?

RPO stands for Regular Production Option, and the sticker was essentially the master build sheet used during assembly to tell the workers what was to go into that particular car. Every option had a specific code, and the sticker is just a list of those codes.

Open your hood, and it should be on top of the driver side wheel well. It'll be labeled Service Parts Identification (or Identifier, I don't remember which).

There is also a sticker on the driver side door that has a date. Open the door and look at the rear edge. Many of these labels are illegible after all these years, so you may not get a date from it.

edit: here's a link showing some Fiero RPO codes: http://home.xnet.com/~paulv...tips.htm#RPO%20Codes

[This message has been edited by GT86 (edited 11-23-2008).]

quote VIN 1G2PF3793GP227448 which shows RPO #81 and WA-8553

Just checked my car, and it's door sticker indicates 11/85 as the build month.

Thanks ManMadeChickens.

With these info, if nobody can confirm without anydoubt that the '86 model year never had a WA-8774 paint code for Bright Red, we have some hope to find out if some '86 have this color and when (approx) GM switched to this red.

If WA-8774 was never put on any regular production Fiero in '86 all present-day made document on the net and books will need to be corrected.

Still need more input.

For now, all the document and list you can found on the net or in some clubs publications list a production of 28,563 Bright Red WA-8774 Fieros in 1986 with an RPO code 81(U).

But these Fieros still need to be found...since I only saw , for now, WA-8553 ( Fiero Red...darker than the 88 Bright Red Fiero ) for the 1986 model with a mismatch RPO code and color name (81 and Bright Red). This include my own '86 GT.

[This message has been edited by perry rhodan (edited 11-23-2008).]

GT86,

Thanks for clarifying the location of the RPO sticker and the car's date of manufacture. Thanks also for the link you provided re the RPO codes; it has a wealth of information in it enabling one to decipher easily the meaning of all those RPO sticker codes!


perry rhodan,

1. The RPO color code for my red `86 GT is 81U
   
2. The Fisher paint code on the RPO sticker is WA-8553U
   
3. The date of manufacture on the driver's side door sticker is illegible

This is a good question that can only be answered by the official Fiero Plant production records. Unfortunately, GM does not have them in their archives. Most I have talked to about this subject indicate that they were part of the numerous file cabinets of data that were thrown away when PMD moved out of their headquarters in Pontiac and returned to downtown. An enterprising Jim Mattison was smart enough to get a hold of some of them, but he is only one man and could not save everything.

I do have internal documents that state that code 71 would be officially discontinued at the end of the MY1985 model year and replaced with the code 81 for MY1986. That is all I have with no dates as to when they physically used the 71 or 81.

The fact that we have presented here is that there are some cars that have the code 81 and the paint formulation code of WA-8553. Keep in mind that the code 71 or 81 were the numbers that sales used to order the color as it was simple and easy to distinguish at the dealership level. The WA-xxxx number is the actual formulation code that your paint store uses to mix the correct color. By having the code 81 means that the dealership ordered that color, but the WA-8553 indicates that factory applied the earlier color. The paint stores always go by the WA number and never the two number code.

So, by opinion , I would support that there was an over-run in to MY1986. PPG was the supplier and I would be inclined to say that the actual ordering of paint versus the actual time PPG delivered it was long after the time Pontiac Corporate intended to discontinue code 71, From personal experience, I have seen numerous 86 coupes and SE's that had the WA-8553 code. I yet to personally see an 86 GT that has the WA-8553 as all of them have had the WA-8774. I am now curious as to what the production dates were on the 86's I encountered with the WA-8774 code. I do have documentation that the production GT's were produced starting the second week of February MY1986.

To answer your question, no I do not have documentation defining the stop and start date of the two red colors. Keep in mind that the Fiero Plant had only one goal and that was production. They used what ever was available regardless of what was being offered. Production of anything related to the Fiero was late and all to often delays were caused by issues with suppliers and product quality.

Good luck in your research and now that this has been brought to my attention, I will keep an eye out too. I get a hold of stuff that I am not supposed to have on a regular basis, so maybe something will pop up in the future.

Fred

quote Originally posted by RAREW66: So, by opinion , I would support that there was an over-run in to MY1986. PPG was the supplier and I would be inclined to say that the actual ordering of paint versus the actual time PPG delivered it was long after the time Pontiac Corporate intended to discontinue code 71, From personal experience, I have seen numerous 86 coupes and SE's that had the WA-8553 code. I yet to personally see an 86 GT that has the WA-8553 as all of them have had the WA-8774. I am now curious as to what the production dates were on the 86's I encountered with the WA-8774 code. I do have documentation that the production GT's were produced starting the second week of February MY1986.

@RAREW86
Thanks a lot Fred for this answer.

You stated that all '86 GTs you saw had the WA-8774 paint code, so its really "bright red".

But my 1986 GT Fastback (its a real GT, not a conversion...have "G" as the serial 5th digit), have the 81 RPO code but the WA-8553 paint code!!!! Alas I cant really read the mfg date since the number are barely visible...but looks like 05-86 ... not sure.

I made a correction in my first request in red in the first post...I need the 5th digit of the serial number to know the exact model your Fiero is or was.

Thanks all....maybe we will be able to know more about this mystery

@project84 : whats the letter on the 5th digit of the serial of your Fiero?

[This message has been edited by perry rhodan (edited 11-24-2008).]

quote Originally posted by perry rhodan: whats the letter on the 5th digit of the serial of your Fiero?

It's G.

quote Originally posted by perry rhodan: ...my 1986 GT Fastback (its a real GT, not a conversion...have "G" as the serial 5th digit)....

Aside from the G being the 5th digit of my VIN as well, another really good reason I know mine also is "a real GT, not a conversion" is that I'm this Fiero GT's original owner.


Interestingly, neither you nor I have the WA-8774 paint code RAREW66 mentioned:

quote Originally posted by RAREW66: I yet to personally see an 86 GT that has the WA-8553 as all of them have had the WA-8774.

However, the following is where you and I appear to have a slight difference in the numbers assigned our red `86 GTs:

quote Originally posted by perry rhodan: ...my 1986 GT Fastback...have the 81 RPO code but the WA-8553 paint code!!!!

My 1986 GT Fastback has RPO code 81U rather than 81, and paint code WA-8553U rather than WA-8553.

quote Originally posted by project34: Aside from the G being the 5th digit of my VIN as well, another really good reason I know mine also is "a real GT, not a conversion" is that I'm this Fiero GT's original owner.

Good point. It's very interesting to see that we still have original owners of the Fiero. Its a rare breed. I purchased mine in 1994.

quote Originally posted by project34: My 1986 GT Fastback has RPO code 81U rather than 81, and paint code WA-8553U rather than WA-8553.

In fact I omitted to mention it since I think its not really revelant. The "U" letter only specify that its the code of the upper body color for two tone car, and since all production GT in '86 was two tone aside the limited run of monochrome white GT, its not a real factor in my search. At least I dont think so for now.

My codes are 81U and WA-8553U

[This message has been edited by perry rhodan (edited 11-25-2008).]

I have a red 1986 GT. Manufacture date is 02/86. RPO code is 81U and the paint code is WA-8553U. When I first bought the car a few months ago, I was wondering about this whole paint code thing too. Never put this much thought into it.

Does your GT is a fastback or a notchie?

quote Originally posted by perry rhodan: The "U" letter only specify that its the code of the upper body color for two tone car, and since all production GT in '86 was two tone aside the limited run of monochrome white GT, its not a real factor in my search. At least I dont think so for now. My codes are 81U and WA-8553U

I see what you're saying: "U" just means "upper body color." Thanks for explaining away that apparent discrepancy.

quote Originally posted by Jr86GT: I have a red 1986 GT. Manufacture date is 02/86. RPO code is 81U and the paint code is WA-8553U.

That makes at least three of us with the same 81U and WA-8553U codes. Maybe the numbers on our bright red `86 GTs aren't as "rare" as this comment by RAREW66 might imply:

quote Originally posted by RAREW66: From personal experience, I have seen numerous 86 coupes and SE's that had the WA-8553 code. I yet to personally see an 86 GT that has the WA-8553 as all of them have had the WA-8774.

quote Originally posted by perry rhodan: Does your GT is a fastback or a notchie?

Now a notchie GT would be rare for a GT that is an `86, and, I'd guess, about as much of a bona fide GM original as a $3 bill.

quote Originally posted by project34: That makes at least three of us with the same 81U and WA-8553U codes. Maybe the numbers on our bright red `86 GTs aren't as "rare" as this comment by RAREW66 might imply

I'm still waiting for the first "real" '86 Bright Red (WA-8774) to show its nose in this thread .

Alas, ours WA-8553 color name is "Fiero Red" or simply "Red" as named in official Pontiac color samples pamphlet.

quote Originally posted by project34: Originally posted by perry rhodan: Does your GT is a fastback or a notchie? Now a notchie GT would be rare for a GT that is an `86, and, I'd guess, about as much of a bona fide GM original as a $3 bill.

It was alway told that the fastback style body was introduced as a mid year model in 1986. So I assume that a good fraction of the GT '86 models sold was notchies....maybe I'm wrong...maybe all the notchie GT was '85 models whenever they have been sold into the '86 model year and started the '86 year designation for the fastback...thats another thing it will be interesting to know.

I feel like an historian when it comes to talk about the Fiero. In a such short life time many things have happened. I'm very curious about every details of its history.

[This message has been edited by perry rhodan (edited 11-25-2008).]

quote Originally posted by perry rhodan: It was alway told that the fastback style body was introduced as a mid year model in 1986. So I assume that a good fraction of the GT '86 models sold was notchies....maybe I'm wrong...maybe all the notchie GT was '85 models whenever they have been sold into the '86 model year and started the '86 year designation for the fastback...thats another thing it will be interesting to know. I feel like an historian when it comes to talk about the Fiero. In a such short life time many things have happened. I'm very curious about every details of its history.

It was a mid-year arrival. However, prior to it appearing at dealer lots, there was no 1986 GT available. The 85 GT body style (the aero notchback style that began with the 84 Indy) did continue into model year 86, but it was now called the SE. Looked the same as the 85 GT, except the rockers were black instead of silver, and it didn't have the GT badging. And unlike the 85 GT, the standard engine in the 86 SE was the 4-cylinder, with the V6 being optional. This was true again in 1987, and in 1988 the SE designation as well as the aero notch style were dropped.

Prior to model year 86, the SE was the base (non-aero) notchback. In these years, SEs simply had a higher level of standard equipment, but they shared the same body as the lesser-equipped models.

All 1986 GTs are fastbacks. The only notchback GT was the 1985 model.

[This message has been edited by GT86 (edited 11-25-2008).]

quote Originally posted by perry rhodan: It was alway told that the fastback style body was introduced in mid year model in 1986. So I assume that a good fraction of the GT '86 models sold was notchies.

Your "mid-year" comment reminded me that back in the day, my then-new fastback `86 GT often was referred to as a "1986 1/2." However, that simply signified only the `86 GT's late introduction during the `86 model year.

As GT86 pointed out, there were no `86 "notchie" GTs. Notchie GTs were confined to `85, and "fastback" GTs to `86 through `88.

I hope this helps clarify matters regarding the "notchie" and "fastback" GTs.

Thanks. I noted this in my archive for futur reference. That was another questionning I had in my "fiero questions bag"

quote Originally posted by perry rhodan: Does your GT is a fastback or a notchie?

My GT is a fastback.

Thanks...finally it was a useless question I asked lolllll

So somebody somewhere with an 1986 Fiero with WA-8774 or WA-8774U color code on the RPO sticker?

Still active...still looking...still searching. For posterity.

Please help!!!

Today I checked my one owner 86 sport Mfg 06/86 code 81U and the paint is WA-8553

Thanks a lot.

Not sure if this is going to help... 1986 GT fastback, 5 speed, the code i see at the bottom is...BC/CCWA-8553U 820

On our race car....................

10th Vin Digit "G"
RPO code 81U
WA8553U

Build Date 2/86

HTH

John Stricker

Thanks guys...the fish is still going thru the mesh of the net...

delete

[This message has been edited by Robert 2 (edited 12-07-2008).]

build date: 03/86
Paint code: WA8553U

It appears we now have at least five PFF members owning `86 GTs with Fisher paint code number, WA-8553U:
perry rhodan
project34
Jr86GT
Gumby
jstricker
flimbob, yours very well may be a sixth for this list, but your post (immediately above this one) didn't specifically confirm whether or not your car was an `86 GT, which is the focus in this thread of the search of fellow PFF member, perry rhodan.

Definately an 86 GT.

1986 Pontiac Fiero GT

vin: 1G2PG9799GP257991

Thanks flimbob...

Mmmmm well sometime soon I will try to ask some Fiero club manager to look at paint codes on members Fiero's or ask for when they will meet with their cars. Maybe at the end of the winter, when the Fiero owners get their cars out of the shelter.

Just to let you know I have a 86 GT 04/86 with 81u and 8553u.

86 GT
8553U
81U

Build date is long gone off the door sticker...

------------------

Red 86GT 4 Speed

Thanks guys