Has anyone used a bigger radiator for a swap that came from a different car and fits in a fiero? Or does someone have the dimensions of the 4 core radiator needed? I want to try to find one at a junkyard.. Thanks for any input. -Mark

im no help, i used stock ones on both my v8 fieros that are daily driven....

...And you had no overheating problems?

I have archi's 4 core radiator in mine. It works well and is easy to install. I used water wetter and 50/50 anti freeze with 375 hp engine it keep cool at 160 deg.

I have a four core, dual pass radiator and it keeps my V8 running at 170 degrees....never over 195 in traffic.
Dave

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1987 GT (my toy-see above), 1987 GT (daily driver), 1986 SE with a VW VR6, certified master technician/shop owner
www.njautobahn.com

It's not a direct bolt-in, but it will fit with some custom bracketry. I mounted mine by lowering the bottom bracket 2" and widening the top one.

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1986 SE 350 V8

I put a 26x19 aluminum dual 1 1/4 core radiator in mine. It required custom brackets and a 1/4" trim to the spot weld flange on the front rails.

I use the stock one without problems. I have an electric water pump.

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Red: TPI V8 + 6-Speed Yellow: Nitrous 3.4 + 4 speed Auto
304rwHP/366rwTQ

The radiator, that I got for my Fiero, is from E-bay.

There is a talk about here in the forums. I don't know what happen to the E-bay link, but here is the E-bay number 350131006181

[This message has been edited by RumbleB (edited 11-26-2008).]

quote Originally posted by tesmith66: It's not a direct bolt-in, but it will fit with some custom bracketry. I mounted mine by lowering the bottom bracket 2" and widening the top one.

That's heavy duty for the Turbo Buick Regal series from 1979-1987. If I could find a core supplier I'd make my own radiator. To bad you can't weld on the stock aluminum radiators. My current multi row brass copper radiator cools better than the single row aluminum radiator it replaced which makes sense considering brass/copper has much better heat transfer than aluminum. It is a little heavier though.

Also using the stock 2.8 radiator and an electric water pump. I have a bigger aluminum radiator that I will be installing next year (I have said that before) if I have time (I have said that before)
Big issue will be getting the air into the radiator, ducting the air into it from the front of the car is important. If your air damn is not installed correctly you will over heat at higher speeds because all of the air will get pulled under the car.

I used Archie's in my V8 installation. It's just a drop in replacement for the original and I've had no cooling issues. Here in the Northwest, the fan seldom comes on.

Not that I have anything against Archie or anything, but his radiator is $ 400. If I can find one from another car that fits, I can get it from my local junkyard for like $30. That fits my budget alot better...

quote Originally posted by V8IndyProject: Not that I have anything against Archie or anything, but his radiator is $ 400. If I can find one from another car that fits, I can get it from my local junkyard for like $30. That fits my budget alot better...

Yeah, I know what you mean.

Back in the day, I spent at least 20 trips to boneyards looking for radiators that would drop into the Fiero. Never could find one, that's why I found someone to custom make radiators that would drop in.

Let us know if you find one.

Archie

quote Originally posted by RumbleB: The radiator, that I got for my Fiero, is from E-bay. There is a talk about here in the forums. I don't know what happen to the E-bay link, but here is the E-bay number 350131006181

I looked into that one and couldn't get the answers I needed from the seller as far as factual information regarding whether it actually performed better than stock and the responses I received from individuals who actually purchased it were not compelling enough for me to buy it and ranged from no difference, to, "It didn't fit perfectly without adjustments" and one "It cooled better". It's a great deal if you just need a radiator that will likely cool better than the stock aluminum radiator speculatively, but if you need it to cool much better definately, I think you may need to keep looking. I received a general quote for a little over $300 for a custom build but haven't taken the time yet to go sit and talk with the builder about specifics since I would want it built to maximize the space available using a copper/brass core.

There's a lot of satisfaction in doing it yourself for less but after a while the time invested in the process can wear you down and out.

I would spend the extra $$$ and buy Archies V8 Radiator. His radiator was specifically engineered to work on V8 swaps. It is pricy but if you go to a radiator shop and price a custom made radiator, the price is inline.
The radiator shown above is better than the Fieros but used on 3.8L V6 applications. If you want the extra margin of safey go for the highest quality. You only replace a radiator every 150K miles, so in the context of the whole $400 is not bad.

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87GT - 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Just buy a new radiator and you will be fine if your coolant system is preforming the way it should. Most that have problems with cooling are probally trying to run a 20 year old radiator that is half full of deposits in the passages. It is not a V-8 but I run my modded 3800SC on a stock V-6 radiator with no problems even in the 100* plus Texas summers. I will also run a stock setup on my LS4 when it is running.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: Just buy a new radiator and you will be fine if your coolant system is preforming the way it should. Most that have problems with cooling are probally trying to run a 20 year old radiator that is half full of deposits in the passages. It is not a V-8 but I run my modded 3800SC on a stock V-6 radiator with no problems even in the 100* plus Texas summers. I will also run a stock setup on my LS4 when it is running.

I believe the problem is the coolant circulation differences between V8 swaps, some use the system that comes with the kit, some use a combination of adapted pulleys that have ratios different from those in the kit and others use electric water pumps that differ based on the model chosen, so a new stock radiator may not suffice since there is also a difference between the cooling demands of the engine itself based on displacement and build as well as location in the U.S. Stock didn't do very well for me in Florida except to season the block with higher than normal average operating temperatures.

I used a 4 core radiator from a 72 Nova... not a perfect fit but it works... and it cools great

quote Originally posted by Archie: Back in the day, I spent at least 20 trips to boneyards looking for radiators that would drop into the Fiero. Never could find one, that's why I found someone to custom make radiators that would drop in. Let us know if you find one. Archie

To each his own...but I'd rather buy Archie's radiator than make 20 trips to the boneyard. That's why I have an Archie 4 core in my car...took about an hour to install.

Stock 2.8l rad in my daily driver for 4 years now with no over heating issues (except when the air dam was missing).

quote Originally posted by Mickey_Moose: Stock 2.8l rad in my daily driver for 4 years now with no over heating issues (except when the air dam was missing).

This is a key player in keeping the temps down on a Fiero. I ran without one for a while then added it and the temps dropped 10-20*. I didn't think it would make a big differance but it didn't.

quote Originally posted by bjc 350: I used Archie's in my V8 installation. It's just a drop in replacement for the original and I've had no cooling issues. Here in the Northwest, the fan seldom comes on.

I used Archie's v-8 radiator in my ls4 swap and have no overheating problems. The temp stays between 197 and 203* at ALL times .( the fan comes on at 204* and keeps the temp at 199* while sitting idling. ) And it's a true bolt in.

There's nothing wrong with trying to use the stock Radiator, because you can always upgrade it if needed.

Alex4mula, earlier in this thread said that he has used a stock radiator for several years. That statement carries a lot of weight with me. Alex has always been a straight shooter & tells it like it is. Alex has stated this many other times, so he's just not spouting off about something that he has no first hand experience with.

Whenever someone calls me about engine swaps & the conversation turns to radiators, I tell them thay can always try to use the stock Radiator & upgrade later if needed.

I've seen the Alum Radiators on EBay (there's one on EBay right now
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...IT&item=200276227512 I've been tempted to buy one to test myself. That EBay ad states that it's rated at 850 hp, I don't get how a radiator can be rated via hp. That statement is one of the main reasons I haven't bought one yet for testing.

I wish someone would find a bolt in low cost radiator. I would love to not have to carry $4000 to $6000 worth of radiators in stock all the time. As has been stated, our radiators are custom made to be a bolt in deal. They're very expensive to get made inpart because the guy who makes them for me has to use 2 sets of side tanks for each rad he makes. Standard side tanks, in the size you need to fit a Fiero application, are not available. So he has to cut & solder together 2 smaller tanks to make one tank that's the right size for a Fiero.

He's been making radiators for me for about 17 years, I know that he's getting tired of custom making the tanks & cores & I'm getting tired of paying thru the nose for them.

Archie

quote Originally posted by Archie: I've seen the Alum Radiators on EBay (there's one on EBay right now http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...IT&item=200276227512 I've been tempted to buy one to test myself. That EBay ad states that it's rated at 850 hp, I don't get how a radiator can be rated via hp. That statement is one of the main reasons I haven't bought one yet for testing. I wish someone would find a bolt in low cost radiator. I would love to not have to carry $4000 to $6000 worth of radiators in stock all the time. As has been stated, our radiators are custom made to be a bolt in deal. They're very expensive to get made inpart because the guy who makes them for me has to use 2 sets of side tanks for each rad he makes. Standard side tanks, in the size you need to fit a Fiero application, are not available. So he has to cut & solder together 2 smaller tanks to make one tank that's the right size for a Fiero. He's been making radiators for me for about 17 years, I know that he's getting tired of custom making the tanks & cores & I'm getting tired of paying thru the nose for them. Archie

Wow, I didn't realize that it was such a labor intensive process. Like a lot of people I assumed it just magically sprung into being. It is a nice piece of work, but I supposed it wouldn't hurt to have another source of easy to install high capacity radiators.

It is kind of inaccurate to rate radiators in hp instead of BTUs per hour, but since most people don't know the heat rejection of their engines it's easier to approximate a heat load based on hp. It shouldn't even be called a radiator in the first place because radiation isn't involved...it's an liquid-to-air heat exchanger, but I digress.

Champion Radiator seems like a reputable company. They probably have a nice CNC machine that they tell it what kind of radiator they need and it spits it out. Might be worth a couple of hundred to try it out.

quote Originally posted by Archie: There's nothing wrong with trying to use the stock Radiator, because you can always upgrade it if needed. Alex4mula, earlier in this thread said that he has used a stock radiator for several years. That statement carries a lot of weight with me. Alex has always been a straight shooter & tells it like it is. Alex has stated this many other times, so he's just not spouting off about something that he has no first hand experience with. Whenever someone calls me about engine swaps & the conversation turns to radiators, I tell them thay can always try to use the stock Radiator & upgrade later if needed. I've seen the Alum Radiators on EBay (there's one on EBay right now http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...IT&item=200276227512 I've been tempted to buy one to test myself. That EBay ad states that it's rated at 850 hp, I don't get how a radiator can be rated via hp. That statement is one of the main reasons I haven't bought one yet for testing. I wish someone would find a bolt in low cost radiator. I would love to not have to carry $4000 to $6000 worth of radiators in stock all the time. As has been stated, our radiators are custom made to be a bolt in deal. They're very expensive to get made inpart because the guy who makes them for me has to use 2 sets of side tanks for each rad he makes. Standard side tanks, in the size you need to fit a Fiero application, are not available. So he has to cut & solder together 2 smaller tanks to make one tank that's the right size for a Fiero. He's been making radiators for me for about 17 years, I know that he's getting tired of custom making the tanks & cores & I'm getting tired of paying thru the nose for them. Archie

That's how I planned to make my radiator had I been successful at welding on the stock aluminum cores by trimming the flange ends and welding two cores together.

As for that link I believe the advertisement itself will cool the engine better than the actual radiator. Aluminum does not transfer heat better than copper and brass as a physical property so automatically I question the statement where they say it does and even more significant are the core dimensions, I'm looking at the stock core specs now; 19 5/8", 15 1/4", 1 5/8", so 3 rows in nearly the same dimensions cooling much better than stock is questionable.

One thing to note is that stock Fiero radiators came in several varieties, (4 cylinder, 6 cylinder, auto, manual, etc). For example, if you had a 4 cylinder car without A/C, (or even with in some cases) you got a one core radiator.

Today, if you buy an aftermarket Fiero radiator they are all the two row radiators for an auto. In other words, a stock radiator can be an upgrade, not to mention that it's not full of crud.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: One thing to note is that stock Fiero radiators came in several varieties, (4 cylinder, 6 cylinder, auto, manual, etc). For example, if you had a 4 cylinder car without A/C, (or even with in some cases) you got a one core radiator. Today, if you buy an aftermarket Fiero radiator they are all the two row radiators for an auto. In other words, a stock radiator can be an upgrade, not to mention that it's not full of crud.

The core dimensions I listed are for the two row, my two row is made of brass/copper and cooled better than the stock single row aluminum radiator in the same car I discovered after swapping them around, there was no problem with the aluminum radiator. The only difference I've seen between an auto and manual shift car radiator is the transmission cooler. My catalog does not show a different listing across the engines so it apparently depends on the manufacturer.

The radiator in the link does not have a thickness listed for it which makes me very suspicious since they went through the trouble to post width and height. I would expect a considerable increase in volume as part of the equation for better cooling. Perhaps going over the front end to make sure everything is in place an unobstructed would help to. The angle the radiator sits at reduces efficiency and the two small passages in the front bumper cover probably could have made things better if they were larger. Stock is very effective for a stock motor so I can't complain about the problems modifications bring about.

quote Originally posted by Joseph Upson: My catalog does not show a different listing across the engines so it apparently depends on the manufacturer.

That's what I was saying...today's manufacturers only make one radiator for the Fiero. But they came from the factory with differences.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: For example, if you had a 4 cylinder car without A/C, (or even with in some cases) you got a one core radiator. .

This is something that I didn't know---I have bought a few A/C delete cars.

it`s not correct to say that copper/brass is a better heat transfer than aluminum, aluminum is better transfering heat or cold and copper/ brass is better transfering electrycity, that`s why electrical wires are copper/brass and beer come in aluminum cans...

This picture shows 3 radiators.

From the left, is a stock Fiero 4 cly. rad, in the middle is a stock Fiero V-6 rad & then on the right is one of my radiators..



A lot of people think the 4 cyl. rad is a one core & that is correct.

They think a V-6 rad is a 2 core rad., but actually it is also a one core, it's just that the core is wider. You can see the one core in this cut-away picture....



All Fiero rads are one core.

Archie

quote Originally posted by Archie: This picture shows 3 radiators. From the left, is a stock Fiero 4 cly. rad, in the middle is a stock Fiero V-6 rad & then on the right is one of my radiators.. A lot of people think the 4 cyl. rad is a one core & that is correct. They think a V-6 rad is a 2 core rad., but actually it is also a one core, it's just that the core is wider. You can see the one core in this cut-away picture.... All Fiero rads are one core. Archie

Turning out to be a very interesting Thread with lots of good information.

Another option is to have your stock Fiero radiator re-cored with a copper/brass core and reuse the platic end caps. When I first started looking for radiators, my local radiator guy hooked me up with this upgraded core for under $200. This copper/brass replacement core has a bunch more fins between the cores and helps improve its efficiency. He used to sell these to all the GM guys who did heavy pulling. I am still running this radiator in my 4.3 car if anyone wants some pics.

The challange with finding a good inexpensive upgrade radiator is the 16" height. It is not very common, except in applications much wider than the fiero can accomodate. A gazillion hotrods/circle track cars run 19" tall radiators in the 22, 24 and 26" widths and can be purchased for under $200. The 19" height requires custom mounts and for the radiator to be more inclined to the front.

When I went with the 26x19 aluminum radiator with the dual 1 1/4 cores, it was for major overkill in the cooling system and because I could not find any aftermarket ones in 24x16. If I was going to make custom brackets to fit the 19" radiator, might as well make it as wide as possible at the same time. With the dual cores and larger surface area it has about 2 1/2 times the cooling capacity of a stock V6 fiero radiator and has never let me down.

Now Ron Davis and Griffin both have dual 1 1/4" core aluminum 24x16" radiators, but they were not designed exclusively for the fiero. So while they are about the right size, they most likely will require some tweaks to the stock radiator brackets to fit. When I need another upgraded radiator, I will most likely give the 24x16" griffin a try.

quote Originally posted by Chelo Fiero: it`s not correct to say that copper/brass is a better heat transfer than aluminum, aluminum is better transfering heat or cold and copper/ brass is better transfering electrycity, that`s why electrical wires are copper/brass and beer come in aluminum cans...

Unless I've been reading it wrong all this time, better heat transfer as well as current flow is also a physical property advantage that the metal copper/brass has over aluminum, however, the radiator's performance in the end will depend on how well it is designed with the material used. From what I've gathered through reading up on the subject over the years, the aluminum radiator is much lighter, environmentally friendly for recycling, and more cost effective for automakers. Apparently there were limitations regarding how thin manufactureres were able to make the copper/brass tubing to name a few, but as of recent that has changed and I've read that some manufacturers may make a change back to using it because of the advances achieved in making the tubes as thin as the aluminum tubes as well as a reduction in some of the other technacallities. Otherwise, given identical design between the two copper/brass should cool better.

Until Archie posted it, I had no idea the 4 cyl radiator was narrower than the 6 cyl radiator, I was aware they were single row. Archie my radiator looks like one of yours, I'll have to check it closer.


Here is a good read on the subject for those interested in the details; http://www.copper.org/appli...diators/no_flux.html

The only time I recall reading some of what you are saying regarding aluminum cooling better Chelo, is in advertisements on ebay.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 11-29-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Archie: Archie

When I upgraded my 4 banger to a V8 I pulled out the radiator that looked like the one on the left and replaced it with the one on the right. The one in the middle might have worked, but I don't like to take chances.

Archie, I didn't realize the stock V6 was a double-wide single core...my bad.

However, as I've been saying, what you buy today is not indicative of what came in the Fiero. I dug out my eBay replacement Fiero radiator from my parts room and it's definitely a two core.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-29-2008).]

I spent ten years in the solar industry. Copper has twice the heat transfer of aluminum. When solar panels were built with aluminum fins instead of copper, they were made MUCH thicker to compensate for lower hear transfer. The only advantage of aluminum was cost and corrosion could be a problem if not designed correctly.

Don`t get me wrong, i understand your point, i`m already using a copper/brass rad. in one of my fieros, it was made by a local shop using a 3 core panel and it fit perfect
the cost? $174.00 including 1gal. of coolant. But my point is that like conduction, radiation is a unique and independent form of heat transfer. Therefore, radiation is fundamentally different from conduction in that it describes the transfer of heat between two substances which are not in contact with each other. . How much heat an object radiates is determined by it's temperature, the temperature of the surrounding environment and the object's emissivity factor. So, in a car radiator or cooling system it`s fundamental the amount of energy or radiated heat that flows trough the cooling fan to be exchanged with fresher air and help mantein a lower temp.
So it`s a matter of preferences and necesitys.


The chart below gives the infrared radiation reflectivity (emissivity) of some common materials:

Material Reflectivity
Aluminum Bright 90-95%
Anodized 45%
Oxidized 70-80% most common in rads.
Brass Bright 97%
Oxidized 39%
Chromium Polished 92%
Copper Bright 95%
Oxidized 22% most common in rads.
Steel Polished 45%
Oxidized 15%
Nickel Polished 95%
Oxidized 5%
Zinc Bright 77%
Oxidized 77%
Paint White 10%
Black 14%
Rubber 6%
Water 8%

quote Originally posted by Archie: There's nothing wrong with trying to use the stock Radiator, because you can always upgrade it if needed. Whenever someone calls me about engine swaps & the conversation turns to radiators, I tell them thay can always try to use the stock Radiator & upgrade later if needed.

This is really the best advice anyone contemplating a V8 swap can hear. We all want to keep costs manageable on these swaps, but we ultimately want the car to be reliable too. On the two 4.9 swaps we've done, we kept the original radiators in both. Both cars were 88's, one was originally a duke, one a V6. Both run under 200 degrees in traffic, and around 185 at highway speeds. As you can see, I live in a very hot climate, where 110 degree days are common in the summer, and have no issues....but both cars are very well maintained, including the cooling systems. One trick I've used is to add a fan switch, so you can turn the fan on at will. I run it full time in traffic during the summer....other times, I let the ECM handle things.

As Archie said, try using the original first, and if you run into overheating problems, then you can upgrade. Do ensure that the original radiator is not obstructed internally, and that the fins are clean and straight. Check for bent or crushed cooling tubes as well.

But to answer the original question, I scoured the boneyards looking for a larger radiator I could transplant cheaply if I ran into issues, and found none. Archie already has the engineering done for you. That alone is worth the premium.

I contacted the seller regarding this radiator on ebay; http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymot...IT&item=200276227512

He states that it is much better regarding its capacity than the first radiator they offered that is still available for $155 which has a single 1" wide row spaced a 1/2" apart. The newer heavy duty model is made from stock radiators, has a 2" core and 11/16" rows spaced 3/8" apart. The core area is 19" x 14" and the listing states it is a 3 row radiator. I understand that 11/16" stacked on top of itself 3 deep is a little more than 2" wide but I'll assume it was rounded or ask for clarification when I get ready to buy one.

He also states that a little fitting will be required because the tanks are 1/4" wider and may not fit in the mounts perfectly but it is a tested fit otherwise.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 12-05-2008).]