Yea that's right. I am developing a supercharger for my Duke. I know some dudes out there are gonna want to be in on the progress.....if any. Currently working on the size particulars and psi goals. Gonna move the alternator to the AC compressor spot I figure. The project is 100% custom in that I will be fabricating the the design and pouring the mold picking the bearings etcetera. I figure the Duke needs a supercharger period. I am hoping it will make the Duke comparable to the V6 but lighter and with better gas mileage. Looks like I will omit the heat stove. Gotta route the crankcase gas a different way...

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84 2.5L Holley TBI Manual Trans White

lkhdefg9werhvgoierhjhe8fhawp3jfp8weaodgat2uhwvlkjso!!!

No no no no no no no no!

IT GOES KABOOM!

You will not even get to the performance level of the crappy 2.8l and you will waste tons of time and money

Hah! naysayer-so what if it blows. It wont cost much by the way I'm gonna do it before I overhaul to get a taste. If KABOOM!!! ...well that answers that question and it SAVES me money cause Id just swap in a the 60 V6 or maybe the 3800 but Im not crazy for speed. Still if I can Id rather keep the Duke cause it handles good, its got good torque already plus I already have the performance cam yet to install. The Holley did some good, so did the Accel, flow cat...know what I mean?

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84 2.5L Holley TBI Manual Trans White

Eaton M62.

What sc are you gunna use then?

Unless you get a killer deal, that right there will cost too much

Just budget well and spend $1500 total on a 3800, 4.9, or 3.4dohc swap

I have myself for a customer who would not take no for an answer. Tried a t3 and a t25, got to 5 psi and !pow! rod through the block.

This was a crate motor too. The crank is big and weak and off balance a bit at higher rpms and the rods are longgg plus EVERYTHING is just way way way too weak

I guarantee you'll will never be able to tell the handling difference with a 4.9 back there, it's only about 30lbs more than the v6

[This message has been edited by RideZiLightning (edited 12-10-2008).]

If you want a boosted 4 cyl go its a better idea to use a Quad Four, an Ecotec or a Super Duty 4 engine rather than the Duke. With a few lbs of boost the Duke ( if properly tuned w boost retard) may hold together for a while but then again it may not. If you are dead set in building a boosted Duke engine I would say be very conservative with the timing use the 2 BAR MAP sensor and reprogram using at least 2* of retard per lb of boost and add more fuel in the PE table. You will also need the larger Holley throttle body. Ed Parks sold one of the original HI-Tech turbocharged Duke Fieros a few years back and I believe that the engine is still holding together. However, I believe that the owner drives that Fiero very easily and very occasionally. Last I heard the owner was restoring the car to show condition.
If you want further advise just ask Neil the Stickman_2 from Allentown, PA. He's spent more time building, driving and doing research on the Duke 4 cyl engines ( and the SD4) than anyone else on this forum.

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87GT - 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H
" I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Thanks Dennis. I will talk with the Stickman. I understand how conservative I have to be, and I will be supercharging direct pulley going for just a bit over NA. Planning on having a trial limiter on the intake and bringing it up incrementally till it feels good and not get greedy. In the end I may swap in a quad4 but I would want to grind down the upside down text and decal it. I do like that engine. But I will be SCing the duke. If I like the feel of it I may S10 block Merc crank it when I overhaul.

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84 2.5L Holley TBI Manual Trans White

...hope not but please video tape the start up for us!

why waste your time and money on something that most certainly will blow up, and will have very little gains? I just dont get why people feel the need to put power adders on the duke.. Enjoy the great gas mileage, and run her till she blows.. then put in something that is actually worth the effort, and will last longer than a week.

sheesh.

It's not guaranteed to blow up people. The duke is a way better engine than people give it credit for.

One piece of advice, in it's stock fiero form, the duke is NOT one for high revs. So if you are specing things out, do so for a conservative rev limit.

If you can get the more balanced crank, do it.

Make sure you adjust the fuel properly. It seems several people modding out the duke have starved the engine of fuel and burned through piston tops.

For better flow, look up the thread on the S-10 heads. That should help out your efficiency of the blower.

Nvm yo

[This message has been edited by RideZiLightning (edited 12-11-2008).]

quote Originally posted by 86fierofun: sheesh. It's not guaranteed to blow up people. The duke is a way better engine than people give it credit for. One piece of advice, in it's stock fiero form, the duke is NOT one for high revs. So if you are specing things out, do so for a conservative rev limit. If you can get the more balanced crank, do it. Make sure you adjust the fuel properly. It seems several people modding out the duke have starved the engine of fuel and burned through piston tops. For better flow, look up the thread on the S-10 heads. That should help out your efficiency of the blower.

Why spend the time, money, and effort? At best, a Duke might be brought up to the power level of the lowly stock 2.8, with a lot less reliability.

i do think if you're gonna boost that thing a supercharger is a better choice than a turbo charger... I don't understand why they chose a pfaff turbo in the days rather than a small supercharger. In general a turbo needs a little rev. A sc not necessarily. Keep the psi's down on a stock duke though. You need to reinforce most of it's guts to make it reliable. Anyway, i'm curious about the outcome so i'll be following this thread.

do a few searches here on people trying to make the duke faster.

Hey if you have the means and the time to tinker, why not? I would just want to do it for grins. If it blows well then you get to tinker some more. I just like the tinker facter, however I do not have the means so therefore my Duke stays stock and does it's job pushing my 86 around town.

Curlrup I think your on it dude. Yea, I mean I am getting into pouring aluminum molds and what the hell I got a Duke that needs overhaul...yea

My duke took almost 4 full bottles of a 55 shot of nitrous before a piston ate it. It had 80k miles and I beat it to death literally. Now the 84 has a 4.9 and a 75 shot heh.

quote Originally posted by GT86: Why spend the time, money, and effort? At best, a Duke might be brought up to the power level of the lowly stock 2.8, with a lot less reliability.

There are simple, cost effective mods to help power. Right now the S-10 heads are very promissing. I don't remember if the flow numbers were out yet or not.

I love my duke. It has been nothing but reliable. It's the rest of the car that's giving me the problem. I think the reason why most modded dukes have blown is that most people don't know how to properly modify this engine. As I said before, in it's stock form it won't take revs. So you have to go other roughts. I don't see it as that much work. It'll make a fun project for someone. I'm sure the first time an LS-x was put in, it wasn't a piece of cake either. Or any engine swap for that matter. And from what I've researched, it's possible to get more out of a duke than just meeting the numbers of a stock 2.8, and it can be done reliably.

Do not forget, and realize, how thin the walls are on the block. A little pressure on this low nickel content iron will push a piston/iron through the metal like a pin through a balloon. You'll be sorry. Hey, I have a Duke as well. You just have to realize that you can't put track shoes on a grandma and expect her to win a track event

Cordially,
Kevin

I won't tell you not to supercharge the Duke. I will give you a piece of advice though. Don't waste time developing a new supercharger. These are highly engineered pieces of equipment with years of development behind them. Use a blower that's already developed - there are plenty of them. You have a proven package to start with, with data known about the flow it outputs.

Use that time instead to develope a pulley/manifold/mounting solution. Your time/expense will be worth much more here, and it will be easier to get other people on board if you use an existing supercharger.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/055858.html

[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 12-11-2008).]

the superduty is a completely different beast... maybe im just one of those crazy people who doesnt like wasting my time/money... if you want a bosted 4cyl, go ecotec. if you want unique, well there are plenty of other engines that would yeild better results. but if your doing it with stuff you have laying around, then go for it.... but i wouldnt go dumping 1000's into a duke to get to the power level of the 2.8.

My 4cyl Duke reminded me of a tractor engine.

quote Originally posted by FastIndyFiero: I won't tell you not to supercharge the Duke. I will give you a piece of advice though. Don't waste time developing a new supercharger. These are highly engineered pieces of equipment with years of development behind them. Use a blower that's already developed - there are plenty of them. You have a proven package to start with, with data known about the flow it outputs. Use that time instead to develope a pulley/manifold/mounting solution. Your time/expense will be worth much more here, and it will be easier to get other people on board if you use an existing supercharger.

Hey guy, about those highly designed blowers... yea they are awesome but the Duke dont need awesome, it needs mild or it will stress the innerds to much. Still, its got about 100hp and I think it can take say 140 without busting. See this is all Im talking. That kind of power is not worthy for many but would feel good to me. About wasting my time.....I cant even help it. Cant stop drawing and calculating, it's crazy.

About those pulleys and mounting.... I was thinking aluminum pulleys....anybody doing this? Porting the intake this weekend likely.

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84 2.5L Holley TBI Manual Trans White

i have little hope in this project.
wrong engine to be supercharging.
not all engines are ment to have boost..

weak crank with out enough counterweights .it actually flexs at higher revs .gm thinned out the block when they changed it for front drive duty in the old X cars (citation etc ) the original iron duke was one of the most bullit proof engines ever made .you can still buy one new from mercury marine .i still say go for it though .exercises like these are most entertaining .

Let me put it this way, if you are talking about or asking about putting any kind of forced induction on the duke, then you definitely do not have the know how or the skill to make such a project work.

And if you did, you wouldn't ask because you would know better


If you want 140hp, go get a 2.8l from the junkyard with 100k on it and put that in for $500. Be alot more reliable and worthwhile

most old 2.8's dyno out at around 100 HP at the rear wheels .another waste of time as far as i am concerned .at least move up to a 3.4 camaro motor.plenty of those around for cheap .

i put a 3800 series II non/supercharged motor into my 1984 fiero for less than $1000 including the engine cost.

$200 for wrecked car with 3800 series II
$50 for flywheel
$100 for flywheel cut and balance
$70 for engine mount adapter,
$250 for clutch pressure plate and throwout bearing

$100 or so for hoses, oil's and other odds and ends.
$65 for exhaust manifold work on the rear manifold.
$150 for exhaust piping and tips, including two turbo mufflers.

if you can find a good used clutch, make your own mounts and exhaust systems, it can be done cheaper.

matthew

I don't get why everyone is giving him so much negative feedback about this...he has clearly stated his position that he is not just doing this to get more power, and that he doesn't even want that much more power. I think he realizes that there are easier and cheaper ways to get more power if that's all he cares about... I think he is doing it for something to do. It sounds to me like he likes building and machining and stuff and just wants to try something new. I think it's cool and I hope you keep this thread going to let us know how it turns out. -Mark

Alright Alright allready....OK OK I get it! You know its actually cool all the concern shown here...I can diggit. Is there another engine I can use my Holley TBI and the FS performance cam on, if not I will continue tweaking the Duke. Maybe not forced induction so much fine. Really, thanks guys I truely appreciate the concern, its way cool.

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84 2.5L Holley TBI Manual Trans White

there are many approaches. some build for the maximum possible power, some build to fit in a certain class for racing, and some build because they WANT TO.

being we are in Fieros - we can already assume we will NOT be the fastest, the most powerful, or even getting into a decent class for racing. which leaves: because we WANT TO.

Ye naysayers, might I direct your attention to the 68th Indy 500 Pace Car.
Twas a Duke bored to 2.7L with increased compression, outputting 232hp...

Also, direct thine eyes to the Jim Ford Dyno Service page and feast upon the second engine.

"4 cyl. Iron Duke Super Duty Pontiac with Nickens/Chevy
splayed valve head on the dyno. 183 cubic inch, 390HP,
285 ft./lbs. Used in a NHRA Competition Eliminator
rail that runs 8's at over 150MPH! Launches at
7,200 RPM and goes through the traps at 9,400 RPM."

In short, with the right setup, the Duke is extremely respectable. On with the show man, I wanna see some fabricatin' !!
Just be sure you tear into it a little and replace the head bolts, etc, which I'm sure you plan to do anyway, right?

EDIT:

quote Originally posted by White 84 SE: Alright Alright allready....OK OK I get it! You know its actually cool all the concern shown here...I can diggit. Is there another engine I can use my Holley TBI and the FS performance cam on, if not I will continue tweaking the Duke. Maybe not forced induction so much fine. Really, thanks guys I truely appreciate the concern, its way cool.

NO!! You must continue as planned! You simply MUST!

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Journal of a concept: http://southeastfieros.com >>> Build Thread >>> Parts thread (for project funding)

[This message has been edited by fieroboom (edited 12-12-2008).]

the super duty and the duke are not the same motors .some parts interchange and they have the same bore centres so gm could call it a stock block for racing , but the super duty is a purpose built race motor .

quote Originally posted by RideZiLightning: lkhdefg9werhvgoierhjhe8fhawp3jfp8weaodgat2uhwvlkjso!!! No no no no no no no no! IT GOES KABOOM! You will not even get to the performance level of the crappy 2.8l and you will waste tons of time and money

And you know this how? Have you done it?

quote Originally posted by wftb: the super duty and the duke are not the same motors .some parts interchange and they have the same bore centres so gm could call it a stock block for racing , but the super duty is a purpose built race motor .

SD4

"While not a V8, the SD4 was the last in a line of high performance Pontiac engines. The SD4 was available in the Indy Fiero. Over the counter parts could garner a 2.7L 272 hp (203 kW) version and a 3.2L 330 hp (250 kW) version. See the Iron Duke 2.5L 4 cyl engine.[1]"

You are correct. But the design was taken directly from the Iron Duke, and many parts are interchangeable.

And here is the parent page of that FAQ. Quite a wealth of info.

All that being said, there is nothing preventing White 84 SE from building that duke into whatever he wants. They are tough engines, and have a lot of potential, as long as he pays attention and doesn't just throw a charger on it without taking the time to reinforce it for the extra pressure. A properly built Duke in an '84 can smoke a stock v6, as well as a lot of other cars, mainly because the '84s had the lightest curb weight.

I personally think he has a very cool & unique idea that will work, and I'd love to see it completed.

quote Originally posted by The_Stickman2: And you know this how? Have you done it?

YES!

If you had read, you would see that I already said so

quote Originally posted by RideZiLightning: YES! If you had read, you would see that I already said so

quote Originally posted by RideZiLightning: What sc are you gunna use then? Unless you get a killer deal, that right there will cost too much Just budget well and spend $1500 total on a 3800, 4.9, or 3.4dohc swap

And if you had read, you'd see that he's building his own:

quote Originally posted by White 84 SE: The project is 100% custom in that I will be fabricating the the design and pouring the mold picking the bearings etcetera.

I'm not trying to flame, but if you're going to point a finger, be sure to not be guilty of the same.
Also, constructive criticism is much more helpful. A simple "hey man, I did this for a customer, and he threw a rod through the block, but if you still wanna try, be sure to watch out for blah blah blah..."
Instead of just trying to nuke the idea off the bat.

Now for some funny stuff... HAHA, this guy strapped a LEAF BLOWER to his Iron Duke S-10 intake (with bungee cords!!):
http://forums.streetfire.ne...owthread.php?t=16644

EDIT:
Go for a full-blown Duke man!

Build that sucker from top to bottom. The above Duke claims around 350hp

[This message has been edited by fieroboom (edited 12-12-2008).]

quote Originally posted by fieroboom: I'm not trying to flame, but if you're going to point a finger, be sure to not be guilty of the same.

I read something about fabricating stuff, molds, and bearings

I assumed he meant exhaust and mounts or something for his sc and bearings etc for his motor

Sorry I didn't follow the whole homemade supercharger thing...

I'm so much more confident now. A home built gravity cast supercharger, sickkk

the super duty motor was not available as an option in any fiero , indy or not .if you wanted to put one in , you could buy one fro GM motorsports and put it in yourself .it was biult for racing .if you do a search you can find how much stronger the block and crank are on a super duty compared to a duke .and you cannot put a sd4 crank in to a duke and that is the dukes biggest weakness .