The only wires that come to mind are the VSS wires from the transmission(though, of course, there may be others) that are on the engine wiring harness. IIRC, the body wiring harness all goes through the second/other hole beside the engine wiring harness in the firewall. I'd just disconnect it all at the ECM and push it all out through the firewall, cut off the pigtail on the wiring harness for the VSS and run my own wires from there to the speedo and/or where ever else they need to go.

[This message has been edited by Stubby79 (edited 01-11-2009).]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRP3:
There is no toxic aftermath with batteries. Lead acid batteries are one of the most recycled products ever produced, because dead batteries have value. Lithium is non toxic, and also has value, so the battery pollution argument doesn't fly
QUOTE]

Baloney, not according to Greenpeace & the UN
http://www.electric-cars-ar...ad-acid-battery.html

Personally, I think electric cars are the way to go. I understand your skepticism.

Good luck with your project.

David Breeze

The price of lead has increased, our battery supplier charges us if we don't give them a core to recycle. I'm sure there are violations in some places but every battery that is recycled means less lead imported from China, the worlds largest supplier, who is cutting back exports because they need it at home. Frankly, I'd rather have an old battery sitting on the ground than a gallon of used oil or gasoline. Nothing is perfect or completely clean. All this of course ignores the fact that EV's will not even be powered by lead acid batteries but will be powered by lithium and probably other technologies. Look up EESTOR capacitors as one possibility.

So far as the wheel question goes, they are not stock. Not sure what they are off of, but someone around here usually knows.

If they were stock, or if the center insert are the same size, then the FieroStore has them and they are offering 15% off all day tomorrow. they also offer a discount every day for members of this forum, but not online. For that discount you have to call them and mention it. If you hadn't found them yet, they are a good source for all things Fiero. Good reputation.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the tip. I searched that site and the center caps they show don't look as if they would fit.
Here's a closer look at the wheel if that helps anyone identify it. No markings on it.

I was actually ready to write the whole EV/hybrid thing off but my obsession with checking this thread, and the "Advanced Propulsion" thread, fifty times a day is keeping the burner on simmer. The cost to keep the weight even close to what I could tolerate is still prohibitive for my needs, but I'm going to keep my eye out for new developments and keep the possibility in mind while developing my projects. The main thing keeping me interested is convenience and compatibility. I just converted from small town/home owner status to city life/apartment dweller, and being able to pull the vehicle in the garage and "filler-up" works with my new lifestyle. Eventually I plan to purchase a condo and, again, plugging in at night makes a lot of sense - as compared to a lot of alternative fuel choices.

If you want more EV stimulation check out what others are doing here: http://www.evalbum.com and here: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/

That would definitely needed a bigger cap. With a universal hole set up like that, I would guess that it's an aftermarket wheel. Not something that came from any production car. Try taking one off or looking somewhere on the back and seeing if you can find a makers name and more info on it. Off hand, I know I saw something like that from Helo, but all brands make something similar.

quote Originally posted by JRP3: Look up EESTOR capacitors as one possibility.

Wow, excellent read. I hope they break that out soon! 1 MJ/kg!!??!?!? Geez, that's insane!

I think the only reason we haven't done away with lead acid batteries yet is because of their capability to handle such large surge currents. LIon, MiMH, & NiCad can't handle the same sudden discharge as a lead acid and still maintain it's full life cycle.

Also, regarding recycling your batteries, you can actually do some recycling on your own. As the battery discharges, the Sulfuric acid (H₂SO₄) oxidizes the lead electrodes, and they turn into lead sulfate (PbSO₄). You can buy or even build your own desulfator, and restore a lot of life back into the battery.

Desulfation:
http://www.dallas.net/~jvpo...esulfatorSurvey.html
http://www.theworkshop.ca/energy/desulf/desulf.htm

Happy desulfating!

------------------
Journal of a concept: http://southeastfieros.com >>> Build Thread >>> Parts thread (for project funding)

quote Originally posted by JRP3: If you want more EV stimulation check out what others are doing here: http://www.evalbum.com and here: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/

Thanks, but no more stimulation for me. I have peeked in the forum before (as a guest) but the last thing I need is another forum to spend more of the time I don't have in! I may poke around in the album from time to time. For the most part, I will just be waiting patiently on the sidelines for the technology that fits my needs to surface. The EEStor concept sounds like it would be it, but I crige at the thought of the price.

My hat is off to you guys for getting your hands dirty ringing in the future... Other priorities prevent me from actively participating in the development, but if I take advantage of it, in the future, I will be sure to actively promote it and give credit where it's due.

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 01-13-2009).]

GM just announced that they will build a plant to assemble cells made in Korea into battery packs for the Volt. The lithium-ion packs will weigh 400 lbs. and give the Volt a 40 mile range. http://www.gm-volt.com/index.php?s=continent

Yeah, GM could have gone with an American company like A123 which has better batteries, but A123 makes cylindrical cells and GM wants prismatics. At least that's what GM is claiming. Somehow Tesla figured out how to use cylindrical cells for the Roadster GM pack, 400lbs 40 miles range, Tesla pack 800lbs 244 miles range. And Tesla isn't even using the A123 cells.

[This message has been edited by JRP3 (edited 01-13-2009).]

quote Originally posted by JRP3: Not true of many lithium chemistries. A123 and Altairnano can handle just about anything you can throw at them, charging or discharging, way more than lead acid. Voltage sag is also less for lithiums. We aren't using them because they still cost too damn much, but they are coming down.

NiCd's were also used as diesel generator start batteries at some radio relay sites many years ago so they can take high discharge rates. edit: still used in that application

[This message has been edited by spark1 (edited 01-13-2009).]

Here are some general Fiero questions:
Why no glove box? Looks as if there is plenty of room for one.
Did some of these actually come with a tape deck and AM radio only? I don't see a way to change to FM.
Are the front tires supposed to be smaller than rears? I have 205's on the front and 245 on the rear.

Enjoy :

http://www.opb.org/programs...-Electric-Drag-Racin

Norm

New 1988 Fiero owners manuals are still available at Helm Inc.

There is a glove box of sorts between the two seatbacks.

Change between AM and FM by pressing the tuning knob.

Tire sizes are listed on a sticker on the driver's door. A stock coupe should have P195/70R14 on all wheels.

Norm: Yeah, Wayland's the man! Love the Zombie
Spark: Thanks for the tips.

quote Originally posted by gt88norm: Enjoy : http://www.opb.org/programs...-Electric-Drag-Racin Norm

OK, now I am really impressed! 11:55@110+ on the board at the end of that last run, and it was down to 1900lbs! He was "only" at 2600 pre Li. You guys definitely got my attention and opened my eyes, now it's just the cost issue...

[This message has been edited by toddshotrods (edited 01-14-2009).]

Ooooh, free stuff http://spad.sytes.net/fiero/manuals/
http://www.fierosails.com/fierosecrets.html
You guys probably already know about this but thought I'd post it just in case.

Why did I choose a Fiero to convert? I'm used to working on trucks and Jeeps where I can climb into the engine compartment and move around or sit up underneath them I've spent more time feeling around for bolts, dropping wrenches in tight places, and searching around for my metric sockets Ah well, I can't afford enough batteries and motor to do a truck anyway. I wish I had a lift though. Still debating which way to go with the motor, up or down, neither way seems like fun, and I'd have to deal with more rusted bolts if I try to drop it through the bottom, and the EV motor will easily fit back in from above, so I'm still hoping to pull it out through the top.

I'm glad you chose a Fiero, because I probably never would have had the opportunity to pick your brain if you hadn't come here! You didn't really pick the lightest vehicle though. My Fiero weighed just about as much as my S10. I forget the exact scale numbers for the Fiero but the (long bed) S10 was 2880lbs. Someone here probably has the weight of a base model Fiero for comparison.

Yeah I think it's around 2500lbs, so not great, but one important item was the fiberglass body. I didn't want to spend too much time messing around with rusted sheet metal. Also it should have a fairly low cdA, coefficient of drag x area, since it's low and small, which is more important than weight once you get moving.

Wheels might be Borbet. They are just like the ones on my Indy. Mine have center caps with a carbon fiber accent. Look sharp. Don't know if they're still available. http://www.borbet.de/index-...d=&ukey=&site_lg=lgb
Tesla battery pack goes for $20,000.
I would love to build an electric car but like others the cost is prohibitive. Maye after I finish some of my other projects....
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

quote Originally posted by JRP3: Frankly, I'd rather have an old battery sitting on the ground than a gallon of used oil or gasoline.

i would like to see a gallon of used gasoline too......

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: Wheels might be Borbet. They are just like the ones on my Indy. Mine have center caps with a carbon fiber accent. Look sharp. Don't know if they're still available. http://www.borbet.de/index-...d=&ukey=&site_lg=lgb

Thanks, I think that's it, the "Design H" looks just like it. They say no longer available but maybe I'll email them and see if they still have 4 caps lying around.

quote Originally posted by JRP3: Yeah I think it's around 2500lbs, so not great, but one important item was the fiberglass body. I didn't want to spend too much time messing around with rusted sheet metal. Also it should have a fairly low cdA, coefficient of drag x area, since it's low and small, which is more important than weight once you get moving.

Here's a fairly comprehensive list of major Fiero specs: http://home.xnet.com/~paulv/MajorSpecs.htm

quote Originally posted by Bremertonfiero: i would like to see a gallon of used gasoline too......

I guess I could have worded that better...

quote Originally posted by JRP3: Did Fieros come with red poly bushings in the suspension and motor mounts or do I have after market stuff in mine?

Fieros did not come with poly from the factory. Yours are aftermarket.

A bit of good news, Tirerack.com has the Borbet center caps for $5 each.

Got the motor out, finally. Pulled it through the top, could have used 1/2 inch more clearance on the right side shock tower but after much struggling I made it. Anyone need a good running 4cyl, ( 105K), coolant tubes, radiator, or gas tank?

Some thoughts on EV Fieros....

After working some 10 years in the electric vehicle business I too, bought my first Fiero with the intention of converting it to an electric commuter vehicle. I have access to and had decided on a 9" 120V DC shunt wound traction motor and control with field weakening and regenerative braking. Then I made the mistake of getting the little car running as is.... After that I sat down and run a few ball park numbers. Basic assumptions being about 1KW/mile as an average. Electricity cost of ~ .10/KWH and a total cycle eff of ~ 80% (switcher controller and traction motor) the break even point on cost to operate is about the same as standard IC car with 35 mpg and $3.00 /gal gas.

So, the thoughts,

1. From the "Green" prospecitve actually when you take into account the total energy cycle of the EV car the conventional IC car is more eff. and has a smaller carbon footprint. Ok, before you go off think about the total cycle. Eff. of the the generation of electricity, transform up, transmission losses, transform down, more transmission, the losses in the charging circuit, losses in the battery to convert chem back to electric, switching losses in the motor controller, then finally the loss in the actual traction motor itself. Now add the additional motors for vacuum pumps, AC, heat etc, the stuff we steal for "free" from the IC then we are actually below the 36 to 40% total cycle eff. True the car itself is near zero emissions but not the total cycle.

The green argument really is easier to control the emission from 1 source that 10,000 tailpipes.....

2. Actually the idea of cogeneration has been around for a long time and will work without as being stated earlier that you would have to run the generator all day long to get back home isn't completely true. To drive the car at highway speeds roughly takes about 12hp so if you have a 8KW generator operating at steady state the car would be consuming energy from the battery pack when accelerating or other conditions where the drive demand exceedes 8KW but under normal driving conditions where the load is less than the 8KW then you would be replacing energy into the battery pack. So, cogeneration would be more eff. and greatly extend the range of the vehicle. Down side is that it adds weight. and where to put it. Some have actually put them in trailers and towed them behind the car when they needed the extended range of the straight EV. The recovery of energy from regenerative braking is minimal so is not taken into account. On the down side to regen braking it does not allow the traction motor to cool during coast and increases heating on the motor.

3. Anyway I still like the idea and have the stuff to do it with available but my original project car now has a 3800 SCII and is a blast to drive........Maybe Fiero #3 will finally be electric.

I'd have to disagree slightly. Line transmission losses are around 7% for the grid. Even with the 80% efficiency for the motor and controller setup, (mine will be closer to 85% being AC), that is still way better than the typical 25% of an ICE. Not to mention that ICE percentage does not take into account the losses incurred in drilling, pumping, refining, trucking, and pumping again just to get it into your gas tank. Then there is the reality of nighttime base loads on the grid not being utilized and night rates being cheaper, so pollution and costs of night charging are even less. My 30 mile range EV will take care of 95% of my needs, and my other ICE vehicle will take care of the rest.

Video of the 4 cyl I pulled if anyone is interested, 103K miles on it, Lansing NY, 14882, local pickup.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOpAJiV3zMY Exhaust leaks and no muffler make it sound bad.

Got the Borbet type H center caps from Tire Rack, they don't fit. I guess my wheels are not Borbet, but knockoffs of the Borbet design H wheels Ah well, not the biggest problem.