I know what Motecs do, I have experince on them for GNs. You tried to correct me by saying your wrong? Again a funny thread.
Hey, Don you are a little late to catch up slinging mud in this thread, but by your comments it looks as you are off to a good start and if first impressions amount to anything you might even have Will, Carbon, Dark and myself with the whole sticking your foot in your mouth thing, I think you will fit right in (welcome to our dysfunctional little family)
------------------ Scoobysruvenge
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03:56 PM
Scoobysruvenge Member
Posts: 550 From: Richmond Virginia Registered: Apr 2009
That's what it takes to get the data you need to campaign a winning racecar at the professional level.
Thank goodness I don’t own a race car, just a Fiero and with those rusted up firewall pics I saw in your thread I’d say you don’t either. At 10k I can see why you are using the factory ECM. Are there any Pros driving 1000 Hp Fiero into pit road in some professionally sanctioned racing body I haven’t heard of yet ??????????
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03:57 PM
Will Member
Posts: 14249 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
Thank goodness I don’t own a race car, just a Fiero and with those rusted up firewall pics I saw in your thread I’d say you don’t either. At 10k I can see why you are using the factory ECM. Are there any Pros driving 1000 Hp Fiero into pit road in some professionally sanctioned racing body I haven’t heard of yet ??????????
You're about 20 years too late for that. Fieros USED to be campaigned in IMSA as tube-frame silhouette cars. R Runner on this forum has built a replica of those cars from the original plans and powered it with a 645 HP Pontiac V8. He's using a Porsche 930 transaxle (longitudinal).
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04:13 PM
Apr 27th, 2009
Scoobysruvenge Member
Posts: 550 From: Richmond Virginia Registered: Apr 2009
I can find nothing on the 3500 spring swap on to my gen3 3100/3400 heads, if any one is aware of a thread on this subject let me know. I’m also wondering if the 3500 and 3900 cams will fit in my block and what the specs are. I looked at the gen3 cam info on cam shaft and they only list one cam spec for all of these engines…. I find this hard to believe. There must be multiple grinds with all the different models these engines are used on, Awd minivans, Z31 sports coops, daily drivers and anything else that GM could shoehorn one of these engines in.
Let me know if you know
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08:45 AM
Scoobysruvenge Member
Posts: 550 From: Richmond Virginia Registered: Apr 2009
From what little specs I can find so far it looks like a 3500 or 3900 cam swap are out, but after some reading and calculations, I think I will be using the stock cam grind on a full billet blank of course, no pressed on lobes for me as it should perform well up to 6000 RPMs quite well. I have also looked on a lot of forums for the 3500 spring swap that was mentioned in this thread, but have found 0 on this subject at this point in my research. So here is where I stand on the heads I will use the LS1 springs as this swap is well documented and proven to work well, I will use the stainless exhaust valves from the TGP heads for there durability and the intake valves from the 3500 engine which are 12% lighter. I am looking for a swap thread on putting the roller fulcrums and roller lifters into my 1990 TGP block, one that specifically details mounting the lifter girdle as I have no threaded holes for the mounting bolts, I have no problem with drilling and tapping them, I am just curios if any one has documented this swap with references to the lifter girdle.
3500 Camshaft Bearing Bore Diameter - Front and Rear 51.03-51.08 mm 2.009-2.011 in Camshaft Bearing Bore Diameter - Middle #2, #3 50.77-50.82 mm 1.999-2.001 in Camshaft Camshaft Bearing Inside Diameter 47.516-47.541 mm 1.871-1.872 in Camshaft Journal Diameter 47.443-47.468 mm 1.868-1.869 in Camshaft Journal Out-of-Round 0.025 mm 0.001 in Camshaft Lobe Lift - Exhaust 6.9263 mm 0.2727 in Camshaft Lobe Lift - Intake 6.9263 mm 0.2727 in
3400 Camshaft Lobe Lift (Intake and Exhaust) 6.9263 mm 0.2727 in Journal Diameter 47.45-47.48 mm 1.868-1.869 in Camshaft Bearing Bore Diameter-Front and Rear 51.03-51.08 mm 2.009-2.011 in Camshaft Bearing Bore Diameter-Middle #2 and #3 50.77-50.82 mm 1.999-2.001 in Camshaft Bearing Inside Diameter 47.523-47.549 mm 1.871-1.872 in
3900 Camshaft Bearing Bore Diameter - Front and Rear 55.26-55.31 mm 2.175-2.177 in Camshaft Bearing Bore Diameter - Middle #2, #3 54.75-54.80 mm 2.155-2.157 in Camshaft Camshaft Bearing Inside Diameter 51.500-51.525 mm 2.028-2.029 in Camshaft Journal Diameter 51.415-51.440 mm 2.024-2.025 in Camshaft Journal Out-of-Round 0.025 mm 0.001 in Camshaft Lobe Lift - Exhaust 6.9263 mm 0.2727 in Camshaft Lobe Lift - Intake 6.9263 mm 0.2727 in
------------------ Scoobysruvenge
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12:24 PM
Will Member
Posts: 14249 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
The Gen III/IV engines use roller cams. The Gen II engine uses flat a flat tappet cam. The TGP block does not have bosses to mount the lifter retainer. Do you have a plan for dealing with this?
I think you should give this a lot more thought. At a glimpse it looks like you're going to spend as much building a 3.1L up to stock specs of a 3400 or 3500. If it's more practical you would be better off starting with one of the better engines. The info regarding the spring swaps is available on the 60 degree forum, you may have to ask around for it but it's there. Also look at the springs in WOT-Tech where they mention the kind of modifications necessary to use the LSx springs.
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05:22 PM
Apr 28th, 2009
Scoobysruvenge Member
Posts: 550 From: Richmond Virginia Registered: Apr 2009
Joe, What happened to good old American know how, have you never seen a small block that didn’t come with a roller cam and lifters have them installed, it wont cost me a thing but time and a little work to complete this task. Maybe you should go back to my first post and look at those long block specs on the TGP block again and pay more attention to the machine work and metallurgy treatments that went into this engine, as well as the car itself, right down to the hardened parts in the transmission (a little trans tip for automatic boys) I actually have one of these engines and a lot of work went into the crank and not just rolled fillets, chamfered oil galleys and 60 Rockwell Nitride you can see a lot of hand work as well, after all McLaren didn’t get famous putting his name on junk. Remember my idea is to go on the cheap, not too cheap but as cheap as reason and logic will allow.
Joe, What happened to good old American know how, have you never seen a small block that didn’t come with a roller cam and lifters have them installed, it wont cost me a thing but time and a little work to complete this task. Maybe you should go back to my first post and look at those long block specs on the TGP block again and pay more attention to the machine work and metallurgy treatments that went into this engine, as well as the car itself, right down to the hardened parts in the transmission (a little trans tip for automatic boys) I actually have one of these engines and a lot of work went into the crank and not just rolled fillets, chamfered oil galleys and 60 Rockwell Nitride you can see a lot of hand work as well, after all McLaren didn’t get famous putting his name on junk. Remember my idea is to go on the cheap, not too cheap but as cheap as reason and logic will allow.
Thanks for your interest.
“Don’t follow me you won’t make it”
I was just suggesting based on whether or not it was practical for you. I've modded quite a bit my way, I've also come to the realization that my way has not always been the best and on occasion I ignored or didn't receive input that would have brought about some changes to my plans. If you are satisfied with what you are planning that's all that matters.
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10:54 AM
Scoobysruvenge Member
Posts: 550 From: Richmond Virginia Registered: Apr 2009
Joe, Thanks, for the vote of confidence it is greatly appreciated, I have spent a lot of time mapping out this project and the TGP long block set up is far superior to anything else in its class, I have also chosen it because of its small displacement so as not to break to many axels or transmissions (bigger is not always better) Are you running a 60degree motor as well????
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12:19 PM
Scoobysruvenge Member
Posts: 550 From: Richmond Virginia Registered: Apr 2009
I have procured a dial bore gauge, and will be measuring the block and crank for ware this week and will have some pics of the process and the hard numbers for you sports fans when I am finished. I will find my lifter girdle and post what I find on mounting it into my block with some pics as well for those of you who are curios about this swap. I have been pondering on the exhaust manifold design, that is to use headers or a log style manifold. I am familiar with the merits of equal length tubes, but the log style manifold offers ease of construction complexity and cost, as well as providing tight packaging inside the Fiero engine compartment, any thoughts on these subjects is welcomed.
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12:20 PM
PFF
System Bot
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
Originally posted by Scoobysruvenge: have you never seen a small block that didn’t come with a roller cam and lifters have them installed, it wont cost me a thing but time and a little work to complete this task.
after all McLaren didn’t get famous putting his name on junk.
Roller cam retrofits are accomplished in SBC's via link bar lifter pairs. I don't think those are available in the right configuration for the V6. Do you have the "headroom" between the lifter boss and cylinder head for the link bar, even if you have to make (and heat treat) your own link bars?
The turbo setup was not built by Bruce McLaren's race team... it was built by ASC McLaren, better known for convertible tops.
Originally posted by Will: The turbo setup was not built by Bruce McLaren's race team... it was built by ASC McLaren, better known for convertible tops.
Good point, my 3500 from the G6 has a ROUSH emblem on the timing cover, but they had nothing to do with building the engine. From what I read in the past most of the talk about McLaren and the TGP was centered around the sophistication of the ECM code for engine management observed by the code hackers.
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02:44 PM
Scoobysruvenge Member
Posts: 550 From: Richmond Virginia Registered: Apr 2009
I will not be using the factory TGP log manifolds, they do not have enough volume nor will they fit the D shaped exhaust ports on the gen 3 heads, so I am down to a custom job no matter what direction I go. Headers would be nice and I have fabricated several sets over the years, but this project is different, I don’t want a whole lot of problems with the exhaust, by that I mean corrosion and all the problems that go with 1500 degree heat cycles. So stainless will be my material choice (an expensive choice) the devil is in the details and header flanges are sold in mild steel on the 60D website but not in stainless so a custom set of flanges is in order, I have a set of mild steel flanges that I will use as a template (this will be time consuming) to fab up the stainless ones. I am strongly leaning to the log style manifold at this point for the previously stated reasons, but maybe you guys will change my mind.
I will not be using the factory TGP log manifolds, they do not have enough volume nor will they fit the D shaped exhaust ports on the gen 3 heads, so I am down to a custom job no matter what direction I go. Headers would be nice and I have fabricated several sets over the years, but this project is different, I don’t want a whole lot of problems with the exhaust, by that I mean corrosion and all the problems that go with 1500 degree heat cycles. So stainless will be my material choice (an expensive choice) the devil is in the details and header flanges are sold in mild steel on the 60D website but not in stainless so a custom set of flanges is in order, I have a set of mild steel flanges that I will use as a template (this will be time consuming) to fab up the stainless ones. I am strongly leaning to the log style manifold at this point for the previously stated reasons, but maybe you guys will change my mind.
“Drive it like you stole it”
If you use 14 gauge steel tubing and protect it with good paint you shouldn't have any problems with corrosion, the steel flanges will not be a problem either. I used the steel flanges you mentioned for my headers. I've used 14 ga mild steel with turbos for many years without a problem. I would prefer stainless but I can't get it in 14ga (and wouldn't pay the asking price if I could) I also like the added strength of the thicker gauge tubing. Whatever you do, for the exhaust runners don't use anything less than 14 ga for boost. 16 ga is okay for natural aspiration but under boost the combination of the heat and pressure might be a problem. I have burned through 18 ga before and that was partly because the mandrel bend area will always have some spots that are thinner than the tube gauge rating.
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04:30 PM
Will Member
Posts: 14249 From: Where you least expect me Registered: Jun 2000
If you want durability, build your system from weld elbows instead of mandrel bends. You can get .139 (schedule 40) wall thickness easily and probably even thicker if you look. The bend radius for any given diameter is also tighter than any mandrel bend.
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05:39 PM
Apr 29th, 2009
Scoobysruvenge Member
Posts: 550 From: Richmond Virginia Registered: Apr 2009
Thanks for the advice, I have seen some weldel manifolds at the local machine shop and they look heavy duty, but the proprietor said so was the price of the weldels. weldels are near the top of my list for a building material for a log or semi log manifold. I have seen many mild steel turbo headers and manifolds at the track and most of them look like they made a reentry on the front of the space shuttle, however with the advent and prolific use of modern ceramic coatings mild steel may still be a viable option.
I was unaware that the F1 McLaren was not the same ASC/McLaren, I did some work and the McLaren in ASC is Bruce McLaren from F1 racing who died in 1971, but the organization kept the name and is a well respected engineering group involved with F1 racing.
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08:57 AM
Dennis LaGrua Member
Posts: 15457 From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A. Registered: May 2000
I think you should give this a lot more thought. At a glimpse it looks like you're going to spend as much building a 3.1L up to stock specs of a 3400 or 3500. If it's more practical you would be better off starting with one of the better engines. The info regarding the spring swaps is available on the 60 degree forum, you may have to ask around for it but it's there. Also look at the springs in WOT-Tech where they mention the kind of modifications necessary to use the LSx springs.
I have been following this post and while its everyones right to build their Fiero anyway that they want, it is beneficial to consider the cost vs the result. For instance you can buy a good 3800SC for $1000 and with a few bolt on mods can be at or near 300HP with a tiny bit of tuning and have great gas mileage and rock solid reliability. For instance my 3800SC series III gives 24 mpg and far more horsepower than my 3.4L turbo that gives 20 mpg on a good day with less horsepower. It sounds like the guy in this post is trying to reinvent the wheel. I had one of those McLaren 3.1L setups a few years ago and sold it. First off the turbo on that engine is tiny. It was designed for all around drivability. I doubt if you could push more than 225 HP from it so right from the start you'll need a larger turbo and a whole new exhaust system. As for the Megasquirt vs factory PCM or ECM; why give up all the benefical features of the OEM unit (like onboard diagnostics) and the factory base tune only to have something inferior and harder to tune with? Its always nice to hear of an interesting project but IMO following your plan; you will be disappointed with the cost vs. the result. The 3.1L is not the platform to use if the goal is 350HP.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 04-29-2009).]
He indicated he's not trying to build a very fast car and has already given thought to the options some of us have already mentioned. Starting with a 2.8L or less in the original car, his end result will be much quicker regardless that's for sure.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 04-29-2009).]
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10:30 AM
PFF
System Bot
Scoobysruvenge Member
Posts: 550 From: Richmond Virginia Registered: Apr 2009
While the merits of the 3800 SC swap are well known and big horse power can be achieved with these engines I can not get on board. Everything I read negative revolves around a broken axel or torn up transmission or I’ve got a 450 hp v8 and I can’t seem to get into the 10 second bracket at the track, it seems to me that a lot of you guys have forgotten what the this little car was designed for: a light, fast corner eating machine, not a quarter horse. Now this is not an attack on you quarter mile guys, some of the stuff you guys are coming up with is simply amazing, but the little Fiero that could can only put so much of that HP to the ground and by the time slips I see here at Pennocks 350 HP seems to be the sweet spot for these cars before the HP starts to over power the chassis. Now some people have indicated that 350 HP will be hard to achieve with the small cubic inch displacement that I have selected, I disagree I see 350 as an easily attainable HP number for this engine, now I won’t be using the stock turbo, heads, or intake but these items are or will be sourced from a 3100/3.1 engine and will be OEM parts other than the billet cam, there are guys making an 300 HP with a Chip, exhaust and larger turbo in the TGP cars on the GP sites, but only time will tell if I can make the 350 HP goal I have set for this project. So the cost will be equal to or less than a 3800 engine project, and by the way hasn’t the 3800 been discontinued and replaced by 3500/3900 60 Degree v6s ??????
Thanks for the interest…
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11:42 AM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
Having built a corner eating 3800 car, I can tell you right now the weight savings of a 3400 block, would not help NEARLY as much as having a supercharger and 430HP, without a sizable effort or money to build it, when compared to the amount of fabrication and "risk" of the 3400 setup. While you are "shooting for" 350hp, I dont think you will be able to reach it easily, at least on a "street" ready setup.
I dont want to harass you for choosing this setup, but "quick and light" is not the reason you should be doing it for, as it is fairly far from the truth. This turbo 3400 project will easily be 3-4x the cost of a 3800 one... trying to say that they were "discontiunited" due to them being a bad motor is really wrong. Fieros can put all of the power that you would ever want to the ground... Without drag radials, I have never had "significant" traction issues, while I have ran into some on the manual cars in first gear (but really it is just the transmissions fault). A fiero makes stupid amounts of traction, with street tires I can readily launch on AWD stuff of similar HP.
Can the guy just build what he has already? Who cares about the 3800... thats not what he is doing. If people were actually following the thread, they would know that he is not going to drop everything he has been doing an do a 3800SC. Get over it.
[This message has been edited by carbon (edited 04-29-2009).]
I think we are reading between the lines a little to much. There are a lot of turbocharged 3100 and 3400 engines around, just not on this forum, and from my observation, there's just as much assumption without examples of the turbo 60 deg motors being poor responders or lacking in durability turbocharged as assumed decent for the 3800. The 60 deg motors are clearly capable of more power potential with less displacement than the 3800, MAYBE that's part of the reason it is being phased out. I can't substantiate the suggested considerably higher cost to turbo a 3400 or 3100 engine, particularly since the only added cost is the turbo and exhaust relative to any other motor, and that has always been negligible in my case. Everything else associated with a swap is assumed.
Let's try to stay focused on the plan since he's pretty confident about what he has set out to do and to keep the post from getting sour
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02:05 PM
Scoobysruvenge Member
Posts: 550 From: Richmond Virginia Registered: Apr 2009
I can tell you right now the weight savings of a 3400 block, would not help NEARLY as much as having a supercharger and 430HP, Fact Turbos are more efficient than superchargers 50% vs. 70% (chalk one up for the turbo)
without a sizable effort or money to build it, when compared to the amount of fabrication and "risk" of the 3400 setup.
Fact The 3100/3400 bolts right in the 3800 does not. (Chalk one up for the 3100/3400)
I don’t want to harass you for choosing this setup, but "quick and light" is not the reason you should be doing it for, as it is fairly far from the truth.
Fact The 3100/3400 is far lighter than the 3800 just by the 60 degree layout (chalk another up the 3100/3400
Fact 350 HP is 350 HP no matter if it is a 3800 or a 3400 and HP to weight ratio is how we measure efficiency the 3100/3400 is lighter (chalk up another for the 3100/3400)
This turbo 3400 project will easily be 3-4x the cost of a 3800 one…
Fact My 3100 is using almost all OEM parts including the motor mounts the 3800 does not (chalk up another one for the 3100/3400)
trying to say that they were "discontinued" due to them being a bad motor is really wrong.
Fact I never said it was a bad motor, but it is discontinued. (chalk one up for me)
That’s 6 to none on my score card…..
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03:08 PM
Scoobysruvenge Member
Posts: 550 From: Richmond Virginia Registered: Apr 2009
Let's clear the air. There is nothing wrong with trying to put a 3.1L TGP w McCLaren setup into your Fiero. Its just that when you set a horsepower goal of 350, it should be obvious that you are not going to get it with a 3.1L using that turbo setup. The point that I am trying to make is that this goal is better served both economically and practically with a different engine platform. Some of us have been through the turbo V6 2.8L/3.1L/3.4L expereince and have some firsthand info to share. Now if you choose to ignore that advise, thats perfectly OK too. The object is not to convince you to go 3800, V8 or otherwise. It is simply a discussion about what can be acheived and expected with a 3.1L.
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Dennis, he is also not using a 3.4 iron head motor like you did. What he is doing isn' t exacltly what you did. There are N/A 3400/3500s out there that are running at about the same output as your 3.4 Gen 1 turbo, not to say those are cheap builds but the Gen 3 motors really are NOT Camarobird 3.4s.
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04:34 PM
Dennis LaGrua Member
Posts: 15457 From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A. Registered: May 2000
Dennis, he is also not using a 3.4 iron head motor like you did. What he is doing isn' t exacltly what you did. There are N/A 3400/3500s out there that are running at about the same output as your 3.4 Gen 1 turbo, not to say those are cheap builds but the Gen 3 motors really are NOT Camarobird 3.4s.
Yes that is correct the splayed valve heads are better, but even so how many owners of these engines have hit 350 HP? Anything is possible I guess but at what cost?
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
There are quite a few proven 300+ hp to the wheels aluminum head motors around. Not much is known about them on this forum as I mentioned earlier. Some are running mid 12 sec quarters like the one you linked to, which was a stock 3400 motor on 10 psi and DIY alcohol injection. Don't forget the 270 whp naturally aspirated 3500. The dependability issues are unfounded and almost certainly based on the 3.4L and 2.8L iron head motors which do not have the structural integrity the fwd blocks do.
All I can offer to the nay sayers is to spend some time on the front wheel drive GM car forums and see what they are accomplishing.
Scoobysruvenge just build your motor man, there's nothing like a good example. I ran a turbo 3100 short block with iron heads (the low performance ones) and 7 psi for years before the 3900 swap. Despite the theory about the low compression ratio that resulted, it ran like a bat out of you know where and still managed over 25 mpg hwy. That same engine built to the specs you are aiming for would have been very impressive.
The stock motor was rated at 205 hp, do your upgrades and boost it, I'm sure you'll be happy.
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08:12 PM
PFF
System Bot
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
a $20 bushing is all that is between you and "bolting in" a 3800....
The only issue I was arguing, was the price. Yes, your motor does tons of awesome stuff, and I am sure it will make decent power, but it will COST a ton.
as "inefficient" as superchargers are (I dont have one anymore), they still will not have any issue making more power than you when mounted on a 3800.
Originally posted by darkhorizon: a $20 bushing is all that is between you and "bolting in" a 3800.... The only issue I was arguing, was the price. Yes, your motor does tons of awesome stuff, and I am sure it will make decent power, but it will COST a ton. as "inefficient" as superchargers are (I dont have one anymore), they still will not have any issue making more power than you when mounted on a 3800.
Since "it" will not go away, may as well have some fun with it.
3800SC ~260hp stock,@ ~8 psi, could be better but the SC is inefficient. 3.1 TGP, 205 hp stock, @ ~8 psi, could be better, but the little T2 series turbo is restrictive.
3800SC: 68.4 hp per litre with a .7L advantage 3.1 Turbo: 66.1 hp per litre
3% difference in power per L, 18% difference in displacement.
A significant fact regarding both of these engines is that boosting them yields drastically different results because of the cylinder head design. Does the inefficiency of the supercharger account for the examples of turbo 3400 engines being able to pump out more than 300 hp on as little as 8 psi with no modifications (A kit offered once dynoed 284 hp @ the wheels on 9 psi)? And if it does, there is still the displacement difference to account for.
They're both good engines, but we all have a preference based on what we are trying to accomplish. R.I.P 3800
It's not expensive at all to do, just install the TGP equipment on the 3400, tune and go.
[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 04-30-2009).]
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07:15 AM
Scoobysruvenge Member
Posts: 550 From: Richmond Virginia Registered: Apr 2009
Thanks for all the great comments, you guys are all right in my book I don’t care what those Corvette guys say about you. It seems to me that the more something is raked over the coals the more you learn and in the few weeks that I have been here I have learned a lot about some aspects of the project that I had not considered or chose to look at with rose colored glasses. That being said I would like to point out some positives:
Block - High nickel content high strength, turbo oil line boss cast into block.
Pistons – 28cc dish hypereutectic pieces that make for that sweet 8.8 compression.
Cam - Roller cam.
Crank – Stock AWD van piece that has rolled and filleted, chamfered oil galleys and nitride coating to 60 Rockwell.
Rods – Forged and quenched rods and caps.
Intakes – Matched high flow intakes, that are designed and flowed specifically for these heads.
Heads – Canted valves, heart shaped combustion chamber, roller lifters and fulcrums 3 generations of flow design and development.
Oil pan – Drain tube for turbo already in place.
Throttle Body - 65 mm
Now I’m no expert, but I’ve been playing with hot rods since I was 16 and if you had to pay cash for all the goodies I listed above you be out some serious change. I have a total of 640 $ (that wouldn’t pay for the machine work on the crank) invested in the engine and gen 3 top end and I could have done a spray bomb job and run these pieces as is, but that’s not how I roll. These are OEM factory parts for goodness sake and bolt right on, that still blows me away! Small Chevy guys would kill for the canted valve heads alone much less all the other swag.
Cool build, I looked at the DOHC engines before I chose the TGP engine, I am interested in your brake swap, if you have a page here or a link to a page I would like to gawk. Are you using all factory parts or do you need to purchase brackets to make it work??????
I started setting up the piston oil spray bars in the pan last night, I used a piece of cut ½ inch Styrofoam placed flush in the bottom of the pan and bolted it to the block and rotated the assembly, as the rods met the their low point they marked the foam accordingly this will give me a template to set up the spray bars in the pan. What I found is there is roughly a quarter inch between the rod low point and the bottom of the pan without a gasket and the exact location where the spray nozzles need to be placed, this is very doable and I will order the oil spray jets next week so I can see how to fab up the bar in the pan, the bars will be to the left and right of the low point of the rods and sprayed at a slight angle. The cost for the jets are 7.38 $ a piece x 6 = 44.28 $ and I should have some tubing around the shop that I can use for the bar, I will try to use a braided line in the pan to feed the bars and eliminate any unwanted vibration provided there is room for the line. I still need to source a windage tray as holes for the jets will need to be drilled through this tray. I will document this mod when I have the rest of the parts and begin installation.
I started setting up the piston oil spray bars in the pan last night, I used a piece of cut ½ inch Styrofoam placed flush in the bottom of the pan and bolted it to the block and rotated the assembly, as the rods met the their low point they marked the foam accordingly this will give me a template to set up the spray bars in the pan. What I found is there is roughly a quarter inch between the rod low point and the bottom of the pan without a gasket and the exact location where the spray nozzles need to be placed, this is very doable and I will order the oil spray jets next week so I can see how to fab up the bar in the pan, the bars will be to the left and right of the low point of the rods and sprayed at a slight angle. The cost for the jets are 7.38 $ a piece x 6 = 44.28 $ and I should have some tubing around the shop that I can use for the bar, I will try to use a braided line in the pan to feed the bars and eliminate any unwanted vibration provided there is room for the line. I still need to source a windage tray as holes for the jets will need to be drilled through this tray. I will document this mod when I have the rest of the parts and begin installation.
