My 88 GT has low fuel mileage. I used Winaldl to find that "BLM" isn't move form 128. I also found that the "MWAF1:BLM Enable Flag" is not set. I can't find any information on the flag. However, I would think it needs to be set before the "BLM" can adjust the "BPW". I have data and pictures but I don't see away to include them.

From the data, it seems that the other sensor are working normally (INT 127-213, 02 0.004-0.88, etc.

It's possible the calibration is dead on so the BLM doesn't need to change. I've seen it lots of times. That is how the calibrations are determined.

I assume closed loop is on, right?

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 05-11-2009).]

quote Originally posted by TK: I assume closed loop is on, right?

Exactly! If the ECM isn't going into closed-loop mode, the BLMs are not likely ever to change. What temperature thermostat is installed? What coolant temperature does the ECM report?

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 05-11-2009).]

I think you have to be in "closed loop" and "block learn enable" for the BLM values to change

TK, Marvin, and Snderson

Yes the "MWAF1:Closed Loop Flag" is set, the "SENSOR:Coolant Temp" is 185f and the "SENSOR:MAT" is 95f "Florida". How can I post the WinAlDl data?

You can email a log to my email on my profile and I'll take a look.
Or you can post a copy on some of the free file hosting sites and post a link here.

Wikisend.com is easy to use and you don't even have register. Just upload your file and post the link back. Here is a log from my 85Gt.
rz-20081118_065735_LOG.txt.

Do you have Aldlview. Have you looked at the O2 to make sure it's working.

BLM will not start until the engine it up to temp, closed loop, O2 working etc. It does not usually start actually changing until the engine has run for several minutes. You INT going up 200+ indicates that you are running very rich which would account for the low fuel mileage. Since your running so far off from normal on the INT your BLM will not start working.

You need to determine why your running rich. Fuel pressure off? Cracked manifold leaking? Missing ingnition? Bad O2?

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 05-11-2009).]

Thanks Dodgerunner, No Ihaven't used Wikisend.com but I'll try it today and let you know.

As for my 02 sensor, it's new and reads from .1 to .88. I checked my fuel pressure and it runs about 42 or 3 psi.

You asked about the ignition and manifold leaks, the engine runs good, just rich. I've checked for leaks (finger over the IAC port) and all seems tight.

By the way, tried the wikisend.com and I this is the data file. I think.

http://wikisend.com/downloa...90511_115118_LOG.txt

The only thing that really jumps out in your log is your coolant temp reading. You never get above 170° in that log.
BPW is high but other than the coolant temp being low the information available from the ecm does not indicate much else to me.

When you checked the fuel pressure did you do a leak down test to see if you had injectors leaking?

Guess I'd recommend putting in a 195 stat and see what the results are. Running a lower stat will not keep the car from overheating any better than a correct stat. If you cooling system is working correctly it's not needed.
My 3.4 runs the same temp winter and summer and we get up to 105° and 95% humidity here in the summer.
If you don't have a lower temp stat in then your stat is bad and floating open. Have had that happen also. Kills the fuel mileage if they are running 165 or so... When my stats have failed in town mileage goes from 24 to 16 or so quickly.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 05-12-2009).]

I didn't do a real leak down test. I have rebuilt the injectors and tested them with elect/air and they didn't leak at that time. Also, when I checked the pressure, I didn't have a fast pressure decay.

As for my cooling temp, I didn't like the engine temp going up so high at idle. Do you think that would effect the BLM?

quote Originally posted by Dodgerunner: The only thing that really jumps out in your log is your coolant temp reading. You never get above 170° in that log. ... I'd recommend putting in a 195 stat ... Running a lower stat will not keep the car from overheating any better than a correct stat. If you cooling system is working correctly it's not needed.

Good advice!

FWIW, I just checked two of my old WinALDL logs, both from a healthy V6 and both about 20 minutes long, and in both cases I noticed that the BLM Enable Flag didn't become active until the coolant temperature reached ~180 F. I'm pretty sure this means that the ECM doesn't start "learning" new BLM values until the coolant temperature exceeds 180 F.

Edit: Since my curiosity was aroused, I decided to look at the code in the '88 V6 (w/ auto trans) PROM (I use both TunerPro and TunerCat), and I found a constant labeled Cold Engine AFR Coolant Temp Threshold with a value of 80 C (~176 F). This seems to confirm what my WinALDL logs already showed.

You learn something new every day!

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 05-12-2009).]

quote Originally posted by blakrw: As for my cooling temp, I didn't like the engine temp going up so high at idle. Do you think that would effect the BLM?

Yes it can. Also a lower stat will not keep your temp from going up as high at idle. It might extend the time it takes to move up, but once a stat is fully open (non moving car) be it a 195 or a lower temp one the temp will continue to climb until the fan ON temp is reached.

It will not make an idling car run any cooler except while driving. The engines are designed and tuned to run in the 195-200° range and moving them out of that operating range without making tuning changes will have effects.

A cooling system in adequate condition should be able to cool an engine no matter what the air temperature is as long air is available to the radiator to remove the heat.
The stat is only there to control and maintain the operating temperature at the designed temperature.

If your concerned with what the temperature does while setting at a stop light then the better option is to run your radiator fan. Sure in the few times I am stuck in stop and go traffic I like to keep the temp lower also.
What I do is pull my AC fuse and turn on the ac which runs the fan and keeps the temp at the 195 level without running the ac. Have not bothered to wire a switch for the fan since I rarely have to do this. Rush hour in Lincoln only last about 30 min. total.

What temp stat do you have in?

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 05-12-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Dodgerunner: The stat is only there to control and maintain the operating temperature at the designed temperature.

To expand on that a little bit, the only function of the thermostat is to set the minimum engine operating temperature. It has no effect whatsoever on maximum engine temperature.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 05-12-2009).]

Thanks for all the good advice and troubleshooting. Marvin, finding that “PROM code” is the key, I think. I’ll replace the stat tomorrow and let you know. Thanks again all the help.

I replaced the thermostat (195f), disconnected the cool fan and let the coolant temp go up to 200F. The “BLM Enable Flag” didn’t set and the “BLM” stayed at 128. Any ideas?

Did you drive it or just setting idling?

Idle. My laptop doesn't have a serial port.

that might be why. I'm not sure the BLM even starts to function until you are actually driving. Or course I've never check mine at idle. Guess I could look at some old logs I have and might be able to tell.

I looked at the 85GT data file you sent me and although it wasn’t idle data, it looks like the BLM is moving at low to no speed.

Careful. It's not clear what you're describing. There isn't just one BLM value kept in the ECM, rather it's a two-dimensional table with many BLM values; the BLM value currently being reported depends upon both MAP (manifold absolute pressure) and RPM. On the other hand, the BLM Enable Flag will toggle on and off as the ECM updates individual entries in the BLM table.

FWIW, a single BLM value obtained at idle is pretty much meaningless. You're going to have to drive 30 to 40 miles before most of the BLMs will converge on stable values, and the BLM values at the extreme edges of the table usually take considerably longer than that.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 05-13-2009).]

My BLM is stuck at 120. It doesn't matter how far I drive it or at what speed. The car is running great and getting about 25MPG which is great for an automatic. I don't understand why the BLM would not adjusting. Any ideas? Just curious I have to smog it next week.

quote Originally posted by sabotage: My BLM is stuck at 120.

That means that your ECM thinks the engine is running very rich and is desperately trying to trim back fuel delivery. Again, examining the code in the stock AKYM3437 ('88 V6, auto) PROM reveals that the Minimum BLM limit is set at 120. Thus an actual BLM of 120 means that the ECM thinks the engine is still running too rich, but it's done all the trimming that it's allowed to do. However, your reported mileage (25 mpg) seems to contradict that. You need to find out 1) why the BLMs are so low and 2) why there's such a discrepancy between the low BLMs and your good fuel mileage.

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 05-14-2009).]

Sabotage, do you have a low 02 reading? Also, look at your "SENSOR:INT". It should give you an indication if is running lean.

I would love 25 mpg or even 15 would be an improvement.

I have some WINALDL logs. Maybe one of you WINDALDL experts could take a look? Almost forgot. This is on a 86GT Automatic. Here are some of the numbers that I've collected:

Time
Data 130 131.5 133 134.4 135.9 137.4 138.8 140.3 141.8 143.3 144.7 146.2 147.7 149.2 150.6
Product of SENSOR:IAC 54 54 54 54 54 54 54 54 54 54 54 54 54 54 54
Product of SENSOR:MAP 50.9 50.9 56.1 57.2 58 58 58 55.7 51.3 51.3 51.3 51.3 53.5 59.8 60.2
Product of SENSOR:TPS 12.3 12.3 14.2 14.7 14.7 14.7 14.7 13.7 12.8 12.3 12.3 12.3 14.2 15.2 15.7
Product of SENSOR:INT 100 100 104 107 112 110 109 103 100 103 102 104 105 114 113
Product of SENSOR:O2 0.508 0.137 0.614 0.809 0.407 0.111 0.15 0.438 0.659 0.124 0.128 0.115 0.088 0.575 0.385
Product of SENSOR:BLM 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120
Product of SENSOR:ADVANCE 36.21 36.21 35.16 35.16 34.8 34.8 34.8 35.51 35.86 36.21 35.86 35.86 34.45 34.8 35.16
Product of SENSOR:rich / lean counter 6 15 24 32 41 49 56 63 72 81 89 97 105 113 121
Product of SENSOR:EGRDC 57 59 62.5 61.7 61.7 62.1 61.7 59.8 59 59 59 59.8 62.9 63.7 61.3
Product of SENSOR:MAT 101.3 101.3 101.3 101.3 100.4 100.4 100.4 100.4 100.4 100.4 100.4 100.4 100.4 100.4 99.6
Product of SENSOR:BPW 166 193 201 223 221 208 221 170 184 185 173 176 231 217 185
Product of MWAF1:Closed Loop Flag 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Product of SENSOR:SPEED 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66
Product of SENSOR:Coolant Temp 201.7 201.7 201.7 201.7 201.7 201.7 201.7 201.7 201.7 200.3 201.7 201.7 201.7 201.7 201.7

Be a lot easier if you posted your log file on www.Wikisend.com then post the link. Makes it hard to look at the data just pasted in a post.

Only thing I can tell you from those #'s is your staying of the rich side according to the INT.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 05-14-2009).]

quote Originally posted by sabotage: I have some WINALDL logs. Maybe one of you WINDALDL experts could take a look? Almost forgot. This is on a 86GT Automatic. Here are some of the numbers that I've collected: Time Data 130 131.5 133 134.4 135.9 137.4 138.8 140.3 141.8 143.3 144.7 146.2 147.7 149.2 150.6 Product of SENSOR:IAC 54 54 54 54 54 54 54 54 54 54 54 54 54 54 54 Product of SENSOR:MAP 50.9 50.9 56.1 57.2 58 58 58 55.7 51.3 51.3 51.3 51.3 53.5 59.8 60.2 Product of SENSOR:TPS 12.3 12.3 14.2 14.7 14.7 14.7 14.7 13.7 12.8 12.3 12.3 12.3 14.2 15.2 15.7 Product of SENSOR:INT 100 100 104 107 112 110 109 103 100 103 102 104 105 114 113 Product of SENSOR:O2 0.508 0.137 0.614 0.809 0.407 0.111 0.15 0.438 0.659 0.124 0.128 0.115 0.088 0.575 0.385 Product of SENSOR:BLM 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 120 Product of SENSOR:ADVANCE 36.21 36.21 35.16 35.16 34.8 34.8 34.8 35.51 35.86 36.21 35.86 35.86 34.45 34.8 35.16 Product of SENSOR:rich / lean counter 6 15 24 32 41 49 56 63 72 81 89 97 105 113 121 Product of SENSOR:EGRDC 57 59 62.5 61.7 61.7 62.1 61.7 59.8 59 59 59 59.8 62.9 63.7 61.3 Product of SENSOR:MAT 101.3 101.3 101.3 101.3 100.4 100.4 100.4 100.4 100.4 100.4 100.4 100.4 100.4 100.4 99.6 Product of SENSOR:BPW 166 193 201 223 221 208 221 170 184 185 173 176 231 217 185 Product of MWAF1:Closed Loop Flag 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 Product of SENSOR:SPEED 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 Product of SENSOR:Coolant Temp 201.7 201.7 201.7 201.7 201.7 201.7 201.7 201.7 201.7 200.3 201.7 201.7 201.7 201.7 201.7

What are the units on MAP?

quote Originally posted by sanderson: What are the units on MAP?

That is RAW map. actual reading is about 1/2 that so the range is 30's-40's which is in the general area.

quote Originally posted by Dodgerunner: That is RAW map. actual reading is about 1/2 that so the range is 30's-40's which is in the general area.

I'm still confused. My scan tool displays 0-5 volts for MAP. Is the 30's-40's % of scale?

My take on the above posted data is that the O2 sensor is bouncing on either side of 450 mV - that's normal and says A/F ratio is ok. But both the integrator and BLM are showing that ECM is having to bias down injector pulse width to get there. I can think of several possibilities:

1) O2 sensor is biased low and ECM is backing down fuel to keep O2 up. In this case the engine is actually running lean but O2 sensor says it's on ratio. But I'm not sure that O2 sensors can fails in this manner.

2) ECM is confused as to where it is on the operating map and is starting with inappropriate pulse width - hence my question about MAP readings

3) Fuel pressure regulator has failed and injectors are getting abnormally high fuel pressure and they pass more fuel at a given pulse width

4) Cold start injector is leaking

Here are the links to the logs. The first one is the trip home. The second is at IDLE after I clear old codes.

20090514_160823_LOG.txt

20090514_175817_LOG.txt

Thanks for all you help!!!!!

Hey first off bought some replacement weed whipper string today. Looked at the label, made in Lincoln CA. thought hey I just say that on your post earlier today.

Anyway, first look, your IAC runs high. Has the TB screw been messed with or the IAC passages are plugged up some or flakey IAC.
You MAT air temp is running really high for driving. Do you have a different air cleaner from stock?
BPW runs a little high, at least compared to my 3.4 but I have larger injectors. Have you checked you fuel pressure?
INT indicate running fairly rich. Fuel pressure check.
Bat voltage keeps dropping and is getting fairly low, at least as far as the ecm thinks. Might check with a meter on the battery and see if it reads the same or could be connections heating up.
You MAP runs really high on both logs.

That is what I see from a first look at the first log.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 05-14-2009).]

quote Originally posted by sabotage: Here are the links to the logs. The first one is the trip home. The second is at IDLE after I clear old codes. 20090514_160823_LOG.txt 20090514_175817_LOG.txt Thanks for all you help!!!!!

Am I doing something wrong? I downloaded the first file and the data does not line up with the column headings

PM sent. You probably are using text mode which will do that.
I also checked and copying and pasting into a spreadsheet does keep the columns in line if you want to do that.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 05-14-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Dodgerunner: Hey first off bought some replacement weed whipper string today. Looked at the label, made in Lincoln CA. thought hey I just say that on your post earlier today. Anyway, first look, your IAC runs high. Has the TB screw been messed with or the IAC passages are plugged up some or flakey IAC. You MAT air temp is running really high for driving. Do you have a different air cleaner from stock? BPW runs a little high, at least compared to my 3.4 but I have larger injectors. Have you checked you fuel pressure? INT indicate running fairly rich. Fuel pressure check. Bat voltage keeps dropping and is getting fairly low, at least as far as the ecm thinks. Might check with a meter on the battery and see if it reads the same or could be connections heating up. You MAP runs really high on both logs. That is what I see from a first look at the first log.

I'm sure the TB screw was adjusted since the plastic cap was off when I bought the car. I've seen a thread on how to adjust it. Maybe I will try that and do another run tomorrow. I'm using a stock air cleaner. I haven't check the fuel pressure yet. Looks like I have some things to do this weekend. Thanks again for all your help.

The IAC count looks fairly normal.
What I can't figure out is why your MAP runs so high. Being that high moves you into the upper parts of the fuel table and could account for the richer running.
You sure someone didn't replace the MAP with an incorrect sensor? Check the first # on it and make sure it's a 1 bar.
http://www.robietherobot.com/storm/mapsensor.htm

Did you notice your BLM is now moving some.

Just checked the MAP, it's a 1BAR 460. Yes. It's nice to see the BLM moving. So what should the running range of the MAP be?

My cars and all the logs others have sent me run low 30's at idle.
You are using the 1227170 ecm in winaldl aren't you?

I checked the MAP sensor.I replaced the hose with a 90degree bend. I started the car and now I have a 33 code. This is soooo much fun...