I know the obvious choice is the L67, but hear me out. I can either get the L36 for $500, or the L67 for $1000, same mileage (100,000kms). Would it be cheaper to build a L67 up to 400hp, or get the L32 for $500 less, and turbo it? How much power can the L36's reliably handle?

Power Reliability Price, Pick 2.


Then again I dont really know anything about those blocks, but usually turboing is going to be harder on an engine than just building it up.

Whats your definition of 'reliable'?

I have a '97 Grand Prix GT that has the L36 motor and considered swapping a L67 in it a few years ago. The folks in the Michigan GP club stated that(along with ZZP) the L36 has MORE compression than the L67 and a nice up grade was to put the top end of the L67 on the L36 and you are instantly in the premium fuel zone!! And more power too along with the better gear ratio in the L36 trans compared to the L 67 trans....PFYC had a great bolt on turbo kit for the L36 that I'm sure destroyed the stock trans upon fully laying into the gas after installation as it really upped the power level to like 300+ horse in an afternoon....Wicked cool....I say L36 and the turbo and have some fun with it...Considering the Fiero weighs considerably less than the GP, the trans should last a bit longer.....My 2¢......Mike

Ya, thats what ive heard too, that the L36 works good with a turbo setup. Im just wondering how much power the stock internals can handle. I know the L67 internals are quite a bit stronger. Maybe ill just save up and go straight for the L67 and turbo it down the road.

"400hp" is pretty vauge...

400 crank hp, whp (manual or auto trans), gas, etc..... area all completely different animals.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: "400hp" is pretty vauge... 400 crank hp, whp (manual or auto trans), gas, etc..... area all completely different animals.

He does say RWHP... no word on tranny.

I forget which is which, but one puts the injectors in the heads, probably the L67, while the other puts them in the intake manifold, probably the L36. A good set of forged 2618 pistons with rings is going to run you around $500 either way, and the L67 crank is preferred. Unless you're gonna push boost from a turbo through the Eaton, then better to get the Camaro aluminum intake manifold than the plastic FWD car intake manifold, And if you do that to an L67, you then have 2 sets of holes for injectors.

after working with 3800's for 6 years now and racing them at the track. go with the L67 complete engine, and build it up.
for the power gain it wont be worth it to go with th L36. mainly because if you go with the L36 you're limiting the minimal pulley size that you can put on the M90 (supercharger).
most I've ever been able to do is run a 2.9-3.0 MPS with a fully built and forged L36 crate motor and modified race heads with bigger valves and between #105 and #130 springs.
the L67 allows for more boost from stock level up to. in a fiero you can have the exact same set up but without adding several hundered pounds to the Fiero chassis you wont have enough traction to meet the same times.

anyway, long story short I personally recomend the L67 because it's easier and cheaper to get 400hp over the L36.

also if you want that much power be sure to get a 4T65-HD Transmission that is built. or an automatic fron a FWD V8 should also do the trick.

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1986 FIERO SE V6 76K Miles Auto Power everything with all options (daily driver)
1988 FIERO Coupe "IRON DUKE" 5-Speed (the show car ;-)
1992 Firebird T-Tops V-8 24k original Florida miles(collectors car)

[This message has been edited by gtxbullet (edited 06-01-2009).]

I'm no expert, but the Gen V blower on the L36 is more efficient. Also, I think I read on wiki (quiet) that the mains were stronger or something.

Edit: yea, I mean L32... these numbers get me confused. Numbers I like: LS1, LS2, LS3...

[This message has been edited by Rolling Thunder (edited 06-02-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Rolling Thunder: I'm no expert, but the Gen V blower on the L36 is more efficient. Also, I think I read on wiki (quiet) that the mains were stronger or something.

You mean the L32 04-07 3800Sc series III?

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

I am waiting for more information on what the OP is looking for before I add my 2 cents.... turbo, SC, n/a, nitrous, type of gas... all big issues when talking horsepower.

If it was me, I'd use the L67 short block and L36 heads /intake. Put a turbo on it.

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85 GT 3.4
14.9 @ 90 1.9 60' Old TH125/3.06
Unknown New 4T60/3.42

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: I am waiting for more information on what the OP is looking for before I add my 2 cents.... turbo, SC, n/a, nitrous, type of gas... all big issues when talking horsepower.

Ya you're right, i was kinda vague, and honestly 400hp was kind of a number i just picked off the top of my head. My goals/wants are as follows... Can run on 89 oct. i know that kinda limits how much power i can make. Im likely going to run it through a cryotreated F40. Rethinking it, perhaps 400 is a little high to start. Id probably be happy with 2x stock power, so 300hp give or take. That said, id like room to expand later on. Like i said, id like to go with a turbo for a few reasons, the biggest (though it sounds stupid), is the sound. Ive heard a few L67's and im really not liking the exhaust note, then i heard a turbo L67, and i think it sounds pretty bitchin. Thing is, i dont know anything about turbos. So what size of a turbo would i need to get 300-350wrhp our of an L36, and what would i need to beef up internally?

[This message has been edited by kawana (edited 06-01-2009).]

first off dont get a 3800 supercharged or turbo if you're only running 89 Octane you'll have predetination up the wazzuuu.
you have to run Premium 92-93 Octane.
and 2x stock power would be between 500-540hp...lol
and as for wanting just something better than stock, by putting a 3800SC enigne it regarless of transmission it's a big step up from a 2.8 or pushrod engine.
toss a cam in, port the intake manifold and Supercharger and use a 3.2" Pulley with a reprogrammed PCM from ZZP or Intense and you'll be set for a great streetable performance machine.
and be sure to get some good tires too.

quote Originally posted by kawana: Ya you're right, i was kinda vague, and honestly 400hp was kind of a number i just picked off the top of my head. My goals/wants are as follows... Can run on 89 oct. i know that kinda limits how much power i can make. Im likely going to run it through a cryotreated F40. Rethinking it, perhaps 400 is a little high to start. Id probably be happy with 2x stock power, so 300hp give or take. That said, id like room to expand later on. Like i said, id like to go with a turbo for a few reasons, the biggest (though it sounds stupid), is the sound. Ive heard a few L67's and im really not liking the exhaust note, then i heard a turbo L67, and i think it sounds pretty bitchin. Thing is, i dont know anything about turbos. So what size of a turbo would i need to get 300-350wrhp our of an L36, and what would i need to beef up internally?

quote Originally posted by gtxbullet: first off dont get a 3800 supercharged or turbo if you're only running 89 Octane you'll have predetination up the wazzuuu. you have to run Premium 92-93 Octane. and 2x stock power would be between 500-540hp...lol and as for wanting just something better than stock, by putting a 3800SC enigne it regarless of transmission it's a big step up from a 2.8 or pushrod engine. toss a cam in, port the intake manifold and Supercharger and use a 3.2" Pulley with a reprogrammed PCM from ZZP or Intense and you'll be set for a great streetable performance machine. and be sure to get some good tires too.

Frist off, im pretty sure the L67's run off of 89 oct in stock form. 2nd, i ment 2x stock fiero hp.. the stock 2.8 makes like 140hp.. which is why i said 300hp give or take. And i know that a stock L67 makes liek 280hp, which is 2x like i asked. But i much prefer the sound of a turbo 3.8. Which is why im wondering what it would cost to get a L36 up to the 300ish HP i wanted. And once its there, how reliable is it? What would i need to beef up internally.

[This message has been edited by kawana (edited 06-02-2009).]

quote Originally posted by kawana: Frist off, im pretty sure the L67's run off of 89 oct in stock form. 2nd, i ment 2x stock fiero hp.. the stock 2.8 makes like 140hp.. which is why i said 300hp give or take. And i know that a stock L67 makes liek 280hp, which is 2x like i asked. But i much prefer the sound of a turbo 3.8. Which is why im wondering what it would cost to get a L36 up to the 300ish HP i wanted. And once its there, how reliable is it? What would i need to beef up internally.

Ok, well lets clear some stuff up here. Yes, you "can" run L67 on 89, but your risking your engine, and makeing maybe 20 or more less HP. You are going to spend prolly $300-400 more to get the same HP from 89octane as 93, and you are more likely to blow a piston. If your going to boost and run 89, go with the lower compression SC block. Its just not worth running the lower octane, you get less power, and less gas mileage, and on a boosted engine, less reliablity. Is higher octane not available in your area?

Stock L67 are 240 Crank HP.

For reliablity, if you run premium, 400-450 wheel horsepower on a turbo L67will be very reliable as far as the engine goes...the tranny on the other hand will have problems unless its built.
To turbo its gonna be about $2k if you get a used kit and do some work yourself. DarkHorizon might say less, but he gets lots of stuff for free...or really cheap.

I expect about 285-295whp from my setup once the tune is done. (Most mods are in my sig)

Honestly if you wanted to run an L36 turbo on 89, I would go with a massive intercooler, and an ST3 or higher cam. That is unless you are a master tuner AND never accidently overboost, AND never have a fuel problem, your gonna have trouble.
For instance, I am not a master tuner, and I had a fuel problem, but I didn't blow my L67 that I run on premium.

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'84 3800SC, XP cam, 3.2 pully, HPTuners, N* TB, 4sp, SPEC 3+ clutch, Aluminium flywheel, pacesetter headers, F355 body kit, weight reduction

If you run an intercooler and/or Meth injection, 1.5 bar, or about 7.4 psi, should be fine on an L36. You should be fine with a T57 compressor and a .64 A/R

get a L67 block, put a L36 upper intake on it (you can change the heads around if you want, but its not needed). Setup a decent intercooler, put some 1.9 rockers and some 105# springs on it, possibly put in a HV3 intake insert, and call it a day. You will have about 400-450whp on tap without much issue, even with a very small turbo.

It would be quite hard to pay much over $2000 for all of that stuff. The block is going to stay bone stock, as well as the heads... nobody really needs to touch the heads at all to make 600whp+ through your manual trans.

In order to hold that much power you'll probably need a F40 at least. Cryo'd would probably be safe insurance on top of that. Otherwise, You can get some hard parts and rebuild the 4t65-hd to take 400whp no problem. Forget the 5 speed. The getrag will no be liking that kind of power, Ask Matt Hawkins who makes 415hp.

You can easily get a L67 block, put a cam in it, good headgaskets, stock heads, arp studs, and your choice of N/A intake manifold. Build a basic turbo setup with any decent intercooler (even ebay units), and you will make 400whp. I wouldn't worry about the block taking the abuse unless you hire an idiot to tune it. Keep timing conservative during peak cyl pressures (peak torque), and just add boost. Next Step: Enjoy embarrassing everyone on the road.

Ok, i guess id better start saving for the L67. I should be able to recoupe a little $$ by selling the supercharger. Oh, and the highest octane ive seen around here is 91. Ya i think ill give the f40 a try, they're only going for like $400, so its not gunna break the bank if it grenades. How much do the 4t65-hd's go for? The L67 im looking at comes with it for $1000,but im wondering how much i can get for the 4t65-hd, to recoupe some of my $$.

[This message has been edited by kawana (edited 06-02-2009).]