Does anyone make a sequential or ratchet shifter for the 3800 SC 4T65E transmissions? I am looking over tranny possibilities for a series II 3800 swap and like the durrability of the auto, but would still like to be able to "shift" every now and then. Car will be a daily driver with possibly a couple trips to the track, not a drag car. I am on a budget, so preferably something not ouutragously expensive. I have heard that the tap-shift function from series III cars will work with modification. has anyone done this to their series II swaps before?
Thanks!

All it takes is money to full fill a dream...

TAP shift is not cheap no matter done on a S2 setup, or go full blown S3. S3 downfall is the torque management, but HPT is finally helping me with a racing BIN file for the P04 PCM.

This is a TAP shift car I built in 04 http://www.fastfieros.com/p...loyde_3800/index.htm

Another was done in FL about 06/07 I setup the electronics on. Another recently done in WI I did the electronics on this year.

As to the ratchet shifter. Yes, B&M make a shifter that works with the 65eHD. I set that up on a car about 2 years ago. I dont like this shifter at all. Great for racing, but not a very good daily driver shifter.

http://www.fastfieros.com

[This message has been edited by FastFieros (edited 09-04-2009).]

I'm using a B&M Hammer for my 4T60E. I made that decision based on responses I got when I asked a similar question a while back. It will handle 3 or 4 speeds. I got mine off Ebay for about 45 bucks.

I also have the hammer shifter. It's on a 4t65ehd. It takes some tinkering to get the positions correct.

I have a B&M rachet shifter but I dont even shift going down the track. BORING! It seemed like it didnt want shift when I use the shifter so I thought it just went off of the performance shift settings. LMK if I'm wrong on this and maybe how to chnage it. Much more fun shifting

I mounted switches to the shifter to run the solenoids. You could setup a toggle switch system to switch between stock and manual shift for the track.

quote Originally posted by joshua riedl: I mounted switches to the shifter to run the solenoids. You could setup a toggle switch system to switch between stock and manual shift for the track.

I saw something about that in another thread. Can that be done with the 4T60E? If so would you mind explaining how that would be wired?

There are two solenoids to control shifting. I bought 2 replacement switches for the neutral safety and backup switches. I then bought studs at the hardware store to stack all 4 switches together. Then it's just welding on tabs to close the switches at the right time.

I was actually more curious about the auto/manual suggestion...but after rereading your post I realize you haven't actually done that, you were just suggesting it. Although if you know how to pull it off I'd be interested in how to do it.

Just run a dual pole toggle switch to interupt the solenoids. What I don't know is if this will force the motor into some sort of limp mode. In that case you may have to have two chips. One with the auto code and one with the manual code.

Thanks for the answers everyone, Those who have the B&M Hammer, did you use one for most RWD GM trannies? (700R4, TH400, ect) Looked on B&M's site and a shifter for the 4T65E wasn't listed. Also is this a "ratchet" type shifter or just one that makes it easier to go through 1,2,3,D?

I used the universal shifter and welded on the fiero brackets and used the fiero cable. When lifting the lever from park you can shift right into 4th gear and then you have to ratchet into all gears both ways.

Manually shifting a 4t65e is just a bad idea overall, as you limit the amount of pressure control the pcm has if you do it mechanically, and electronically presents similar issues as you have to control the shift pressures with the controller, which also is not easy.

There are also no advantages other than it being annoying, and slower than if you were to let it shift automatically.

quote S3 downfall is the torque management,

The fact that you think TRQ management is a downfall makes me laugh. My car has more than stock and it seems to run fine, IDK what I am doing wrong!

So what i'm getting from this is there is no full manual valvebody available for the 4t6x series trans?

My th125 shifts great running through the gears myself.
LSx automatic cars have the option of "manual shift mode" being enabled in the pcm.
I've tuned my wife's impala 3800 and it will shift on the fly pretty well,still not instant though.
Can't remember offhand if it had a manual shift option to enable or not.
For full time shifting couldn't you simply disable error reporting in the pcm,enable max shift pressure and get r dun?
Set low rpm/mph shift thresholds or something?
Never experimented with programing in ratchet shifting for autos.
Correct way to do it would be to install a full manual valvebody,which I thought thrasher or somebody made.

Rewiring the solenoids with switches would be the easiest way though probrably.
Would make a great how-to.
*and my wife's has no torque management

[This message has been edited by DefEddie (edited 09-03-2009).]

Slam shifting an auto is a sure way to blowing it up. An auto trans especially and electronically controlled one was not set up to operate this way.
IMO you don't need much more shifter than the stock Fiero unit as you operate mainly in PRD21. You can easily modifiy the Fiero shifter to do that. Most of the time my trans in in drive so a special shifter is unnecessary. . Optimum shift points and line pressures can be set in the PCM for WOT performance so you can be optimized in the program. My trans is programmed to shift at 5600 RPM at WOT so in the 1/4 mile you just need to floor it and the computer does the rest. As for for the tag CB tap shift 4T65eHD's; its a big chore to set this function up to work properly and I'm not sure what you will gain with it.

------------------
" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

Ok, I went and found the shifter I put in one car, repaired one in another Fiero... So at least 2 of these things I have worked with. Really hard to get in reverse. then you have to ratchet to 4, and slap shift to D.

quote FROM B&M website : > Same great features as the Megashifter, but designed to fit factory console applications! Got a Camaro or Firebird with a console shifter? You can have B&M shifter performance with the Console MegaShifter! This shifter features full ratchet action performance, a lighted gear position indicator, chrome stick and trigger assembly, as well as a satin aluminum B&M T-handle. The Console MegaShifter has all the features of the classic universal model that made it the most popular aftermarket automatic shifter around! Application General Motors - '82-'92 Camaro and Firebirds (will not fit '88-'92 Firebird Formula) TH400, 350, 200 & 700-R4

HTH from http://www.fastfieros.com

On old transmissions, you had a TV cable that set your pressure, but on an electronic trans it is not so simple. You can not just put switches on the solenoids because you still have to tell it how hard to shift, and you can not do that without a PWM output from whatever you are controlling the shift solenoids with.

quote Originally posted by DefEddie: So what i'm getting from this is there is no full manual valvebody available for the 4t6x series trans? My th125 shifts great running through the gears myself. LSx automatic cars have the option of "manual shift mode" being enabled in the pcm. I've tuned my wife's impala 3800 and it will shift on the fly pretty well,still not instant though. Can't remember offhand if it had a manual shift option to enable or not. For full time shifting couldn't you simply disable error reporting in the pcm,enable max shift pressure and get r dun? Set low rpm/mph shift thresholds or something? Never experimented with programing in ratchet shifting for autos. Correct way to do it would be to install a full manual valvebody,which I thought thrasher or somebody made. Rewiring the solenoids with switches would be the easiest way though probrably. Would make a great how-to. *and my wife's has no torque management

Whats the 125 behind? I definitely do not care for the trans being shifted by the pcm. Might as well hook up the box to take reaction time out of the equation too! The 4t60 is not electronic right? Can those be shifted manually?

I just bought the HGM Compushift control unit that is going in my SBC/4T65E-HD setup. Not cheap, but I needed an electronic control unit for the tranny. This one has wires for optional tap-shifting, though I likely won't hook it up initially.

Rick

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: On old transmissions, you had a TV cable that set your pressure, but on an electronic trans it is not so simple. You can not just put switches on the solenoids because you still have to tell it how hard to shift, and you can not do that without a PWM output from whatever you are controlling the shift solenoids with.

this is not true. I respect anyone who spends the money on a tcu but it is not the only way. I actually bought a tcu but returned it because they screwed up the wiring harness. The solenoids are on/off. Not that complicated. The line pressure is pwm but fails at max pressure. ZZP even has external line pressure control on their transmissions so there are alternatives. The tcc is also pwm but I've found that letting off the gas when engaging the tcc allows smooth lockup. I have no problem if people don't want to do it the way I did it but it is possible. When you aren't using a 3800 with obd2 my way is a decent option. The only thing I don't like are the downshifts.

quote The solenoids are on/off. Not that complicated. The line pressure is pwm but fails at max pressure.

I dont consider max pressure shifts at 1300rpms to be a acceptable solution... if there was ANY gain you could show from having this as a side effect it would be easier to overlook this "minor" issue.

quote The only thing I don't like are the downshifts.

I wouldnt even consider a electronically actuated downshift a downshift, it is more of just a "gear modification" due to the fact that the overrun clutches are activated by the valvebody, and not by electronics, which makes an electrical downshift one that gives you modifications of gear during power application, but nothing during decel.

quote TCC

Even a properly functioning properly tuned obd2 GM trans setup can start putting the hurt on a trans from improper TCC lockup times, as well as limit performance by improper or sluggish locking and unlocking. Again, not impossible but it requires a significant amount of adjustment and tuning to become a viable solution compared to GM obd2.

I never said it wasn not possible, just impractical due to the amount of effort required.

[This message has been edited by darkhorizon (edited 09-05-2009).]

Actually you did say it was impossible. That's why I quoted you.

quote Originally posted by Dementia: Whats the 125 behind? I definitely do not care for the trans being shifted by the pcm. Might as well hook up the box to take reaction time out of the equation too! The 4t60 is not electronic right? Can those be shifted manually?

My car is stock 2.8/auto.
I mainly deal with 4L60/65E's (rwd trans) tuning wise,though i've played with several 4t60/65e's also.
I don't believe the 4t60 is electronic,other than the tcc lockup.
Ratchet shifting is mainly a for fun thing honestly,same as a manual.
As already mentioned,it's better to have the pcm shift for you in an auto.
You can tune the pcm to shift the trans for best power,least rpm drop etc..
On race day a computer controlled auto will be quicker most every time when compared to a manual or even a ratchet shift.
That assuming alot of tuning time utilizing a dyno graph of the given vehicle (not a "similar" vehicle) to time the shifts,pressures etc...
A computer controlled auto can shift a trans in a couple milliseconds and less,nothing you can compare to ratchet shifting.
And on a manual trans,the reaction time of the driver-possible skipped shifts-clutch etc.. are all variables that affect timing on the track.
The extra 5-10% of drivetrain loss with an auto is nothing when you compare all the variables you are losing with the auto vs. manual.

I like to shift myself (manual or ratchet) simply because it's more fun.
I don't really care about a tenth at the track,mines a driver and I just want to "drive" the car.