Ok I have had this car for about a Year now when i bought it it was my intent to just get the engine running and drive it but while doing that it spun a bearing . I will be doing an engine swap and am looking to upgrade the stock turbohydro 125 . I like the idea of an automatic but want to have it like a standard can i make it be the best of both worlds? first can i have the 4T60 do Manual shifting and can I control the torque converter lockup.

yes and no...
I am not familiar enough with the 440 (4T60) to really say, but, if the TC lockup is an electrical solenoid, then the signal control can be altered to manual (control it by a switch).
You can manually shift any transmission. Just start in the lowest gear and move the shifter up when you want it to go into a higher gear. Acts like a sequential manual transmission...
But tapshift is not available.

[This message has been edited by IFLYR22 (edited 09-15-2009).]

it sounds good then II will be able to use it all locked up for like road racing so when down shifting it will use the engine to slow the car down and it would work for drag racing just leave it unlocked maybe get a higher stall speed converter. Oh one more thing shoul i increas the line pressure and do they make a shift kit for this trany for harder crisper shifts

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 09-15-2009).]

The 4T60 is not a particularly strong transmisison. If you want to race, use something else like a 4T65HD w/ an electrical controller to run the shifts. Or plan to rebuild the trans often...

A 4T60 swap is best for pulling better fuel economy vs. the TH125. On my LeSabre w/ the T Type package GM originally planned to install a turbo but axed the project after they found the trans couldn't take the abuse. Other folks that run the 4T60 hard kill it within a few thousand miles. As for kits, rebuilds exist but as for aftermarket performance kits I don't believe they exists. There are a few reinforced parts available but thats about it.

[This message has been edited by Alibi (edited 09-15-2009).]

what did the HD come in. I dont mind electronic shift just want to be able to lock up the torque converter for like road racing or keep it unlocked for drag racing. I think it is posible to get like 3.73 gear with the right parts I am realy not after fuel milage if I want that i will drive Civic

If your car is the stock v6 the only way to get it performing better is with a 4 speed. The issue I have with the auto's is that you really need to have a mechanic who can play with the shift circuit to give it a snappy shift.

If you can get it to do that ok, but, you'll have a whole lot more fun with a v6 sporting the standard 4 gear Muncie IMHO

Arn

I thought about it but will need every thing to do it so if i was to go that rout i would do the 6 speed

From http://www.gmtuners.com/tech.htm

"Which FWD Transmission Should You Use?

This topic applies to those who are contemplating engine swaps using automatic transmissions with overdrive. If you are interested in going with a non-electronic version, you have two choices: 440-T4 and 4T60. The 440-T4 was introduced around the mid 80's and had many changes and upgrades during its lifetime. In the early 90's, its name changed to 4T60 but its use was discontinued before the 1993 model year. Basically, the 4T60 contains all of the updates, upgrades, and fixes for problems that plagued the early 440-T4's. If you decide to go with a 440-T4 because of availability or price, I suggest you get the newest one you can. The 440-T4 and 4T60 are stronger than the 125-C 3-speed auto but slightly weaker than the 4T60-E.

If you plan on using an electronic OD automatic trans, then you have a couple of choices: 4T60-E or 4T65-E. The 4T60-E transmission was pressed into service in 1991 and was used until 1999. There was a Heavy-Duty version that was available ONLY in 1996 that came attached to 3800 Series II Supercharged (L67) engines. The 4T60-E transmissions will work with EITHER an OBDI or OBDII computer system, however they use a vacuum modulator to control line pressure. In my opinion, this feature is an advantage over the 4T65-E transmission when used in conjunction with turbocharged engines because the modulator can more accurately compensate for engine load based on what it senses from boost/vacuum of the intake manifold. The non-HD versions are slightly weaker than the HD versions of both the 4T60-E and 4T65-E but many people including myself have been using the regular 4T60-E's in high-HP applications without any failures. However, these transmissions are getting older and there are less and less people who are competent in building these up, so it might be easier to just go with a 4T65-E given the choice.

The 4T65-E came in two versions: HD and non-HD. The 4T65-E HD transmission is rated as the strongest 4-speed FWD transmission GM makes next to the Cadillac 4T80-E. However, the 4T65-E's had their share of issues as well. They rely on a computer controlled pressure solenoid to control line pressure. Some people have reported failures of this component which can lead to transmission burnup if not replaced immediately. There is one more thing to watch out for when using these transmissions; some years allegedly used an input shaft that was machined different than other years which actually made them weaker. I don't have exact info on this but I do know this issue doesn't seem to affect the 4T60-E transmissions. The 4T65-E transmissions also use a dual-chain drive which is weaker than the single, larger drive chain used in the 4T60-E's. But aftermarket conversion kits are available to upgrade to the stronger, single chain.

I always love to read these questions from members and read the responses. Generally I don't see responses from anyone that actually uses one of the transmissions asked about. We can all armchair quarterback about the transmissions and which is best and which shifts faster and so on, but if you really don't know for yourself and all you really have is hearsay, then why enter your two cents. Base your response on knowledge. I am not pointing at anyone, just a general statement.

The 4T60 has been around a long time and there are actually many of us who use them, extensively. A 440T4/4T60 when it is rebuilt, is brought to the latest and most long-lasting standards by reputable rebuilders. They use only the latest updates and take care of previously encountered problems with the transmissions. A shift kit is easily installed by any re-builder, or owner, and line pressures can be monitored to establish strong or stronger shift points. There are plenty of adjustments that can be made on this non-computer controlled transmission.

Yes, I run 4T60 transmissions, 4 of them in various Fieros. My 88 GT with an LT1 and 4T60 combo is the strongest at 497 horsepower. I can easily shift it from gear to gear, but there is no reason. At WOT (wide-open-throttle) this thing shifts at 5500 rpm, the max I want to shift at anyway. Besides, I have to keep both hands on the wheel to keep it going straight. I have a total of maybe 60,000 miles on 4T60 transmissions, the only fault I have found was my fault when I broke the manual shift lever when I tried to remove a too-tight nut off the arm. The internals have not failed.

The basic transmission was used behind Cadillac V8s, although with a lot less torque than most of us have, and are pretty strong and seem to hold up quite well. I answered a Craigslist ad for a transmission builder that rebuilds at home after work, for a little extra income. I talked with him and he built a 350 TurboHydro for my S10 V8 which puts out more horsepower than my Fiero. I beat it constantly and it held up great, so I went to the builder and told him what I wanted. He listened and built what he calls an almost bullet-proof 4T60 for me. If it breaks, he told me to bring it back and he would build it again. To date it has held up great and shifts so hard on WOT that the tires break loose in the first 3 gears.

My 4T60 cost $60 from the Pick and Pull (from a 1990 Cadillac) , $400 for the build and $51 extra for the $3 worth of parts in the shift kit. Best investment I have made in quite some time.

thanks for the info on the trany tvelarde
it's good to hear from some one that runs one and is happy with it

[This message has been edited by engine man (edited 09-15-2009).]

I've owned about a half dozen 4T60 cars and worked on a handful of others.

'90 Olds 88
'86 Olds 88
'89 Buick LeSabre T Type
'88 Buick LeSabre T Type
'89 Buick Park Avenue
'85 Olds 98

And my '86 GT Fiero has a 4T60 swapped in from an '89 Bonneville. Yes they can be rebuilt and built up with some beefier parts but in the end the transmissions were never meant to be raced hard.

well no factory trany was built for racing but they are raced and they all break sooner or latter and I understand that and its not like im going to beat the living hell out of it every day .

Have you had enough time to decide which tranny to use?

When do you plan to start the swap?

quote Originally posted by IFLYR22: You can manually shift any transmission. Just start in the lowest gear and move the shifter up when you want it to go into a higher gear. Acts like a sequential manual transmission...

This can be called many things, but manually shifting is not one of them.

True, if you put the shifter in the lowest position it will lock the transmission in 1st gear, but that is where the similarity to shifting ends. When you move the lever into the next higher gear, the transmission might shift into the next higher gear if the conditions match a pre-set number of variables in the computer. And it's not going to shift quickly or decisively. It could also on it's own decide to downshift back into 1st.

When you shift into 3rd a similar condition exists except that the transmission now has three gears to choose from in deciding what gear it wants to be in. And it is going to shift between those three gears as it sees fit.

By the time you shift into 4th it's a full auto again.

In other words, older transmissions like the 4T60 are not going to give you anything like manual shifting.

Maybe the 4T60e could be hacked to make it shift to the gear you select and only that gear and stay there no matter what happens, but if you would have to be careful not to destroy it in the process.

In my opinion there is no substitute for a manual transmission.

[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 11-21-2009).]

Aaaand the tranny is ???????

another dead project

Indecision?

Ultimately, I still plan to install a 4T60 in my Fiero... but I am weary. I've had a few cars with them. Specifically, I had two 1997 Grand Ams with the 4T60E automatic. One of them lost 3rd gear after 70k miles, and the other went 112k+ miles without ANY problems at all (and faced considerable abuse). To the transmissions credit though, the car with 112k miles had been bought with 28k miles on it and maintained and had it's transmission fluid changed every 40k by me. The car with 70k was bought with 65k miles on it and I don't think it had been changed.

The car with 112k miles had a lot of life left in it, but I loaned the car out and it was totalled.


However, I do know that Volvo used the GM 4T60E automatic transmission in the automatic versions of their Volvo S80 and S60. They used it from the years of something like 1998-2002. It was so horrendously unreliable that apparently something like 1 in every 3 Volvo S80s had to have their transmissions rebuilt by the time they hit 60k miles.

Every Volvo forum I've ever been on recommended a 2003 or newer, but personally, I really like the early Volvo S80 1998-2006 models... I think they're actually REALLY nice looking.

The neat thing however... is that... well... if the Volvo S80 came with a 4T60 for the automatic in the first 5 years, that means you could essentially put a GM LS1 motor in it, right? The bell-housing on the Volvo 4T60 is different, but you could swap in a 4T60E from any GM vehicle, and drop a big ass GM LS1 V8....

That moderm GM 327 LS combo would drop right in with the only motor mount needing fabrication being the front motor mount and a torque strut. After all, isn't the transmission mounting and drive-shafts and all that garbage the hardest part of a swap???

------------------
Todd,
2008 Jeep Patriot Limited 4x2
2002 Ford Explorer Sport 2dr 4x2
2002 Ford Crown Victoria LX
1987 Pontiac Fiero SE / V6
1973 Volkswagen Type-2 Transporter

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: The neat thing however... is that... well... if the Volvo S80 came with a 4T60 for the automatic in the first 5 years, that means you could essentially put a GM LS1 motor in it, right? The bell-housing on the Volvo 4T60 is different, but you could swap in a 4T60E from any GM vehicle, and drop a big ass GM LS1 V8....

You lost me here. How does an LS1 mount up easily to a 4T60 or 4T60e? You need an adapter plate for either combination. That adds cost and complexity. Most people using the 4TXX transmissions are using the transverse engines or at least one with the FWD bolt pattern.

i think engine man lost interest and is now focused on a longitude big pontiac v8 in his fiero now

quote Originally posted by ghost187x: i think engine man lost interest and is now focused on a longitude big pontiac v8 in his fiero now

Perhaps this should be merged with the ADD thread?