I'm taking my manifolds off. How do I not break the bolts? I can't afford to screw this up. Any tips?

Soak them for several days in PB Blaster or another good penetrant.

Its a daily driver so this needs to be a 1 day project

The best method I've found is to use an angled air impact wrench and set it to low, maybe reduce air pressure too if you have a big compressor. That way the bolts slowly breaks loose without breaking off.
Just let it work a couple of minutes on each bolt and they will slowly work their way out.
Soaking them in some penetrating oil about an hour before and during the process is also a good idea.
For good measure I tap/knock the bolts with a small hammer before using the impact wrench, this might break them loose a bit and it can't hurt.

I have never broken any bolts whith the above method.

[This message has been edited by Intel (edited 09-16-2009).]

I don't have a impact that will fit in there. And if it does break then what?

If it breaks you have a couple of options.
Punch it in the middle, drill it out, and/or use EZ-out.
Weld a nut to the broken bolt.
Remove head and take it to a shop.

How would you drill out the firewall side? I like the weld a nut on it idea. I guess I'm just going to have to do it. Also do the valve covers have to come off to remove the front manifold?

Do a search on this topic, lots has been written. I know its a daily driver but try to find some time, like over a weekend if you can, to soak them with PB Blaster. One other tip, try to tighten the bolts first, then back them out. The PB Blaster and tightening process worked for me. Good luck, take your time.

Mark

Spray them with PB Buster lightly each night for a few days. Driving it during the day will aid in the PB Buster soaking in due to the heating/cooling.
Then the evening before you tear into it spray a heavy coating. You should be able to get them out with no problem. That's how I did it when I went to the Sprint manifolds and I was still daily driving it.

I did not have to remove the valve cover to get the exhaust manifolds off. There is a heat shield on the firewall side that could be a pain if it's corroded.

[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 09-16-2009).]

I actually don't know how to drill them out. Have read about others doing it.
I removed my front header from under the car.

Well, I didn't have any luck with not breaking two of them. I had to pull the head...

J.

PB Blaster works awesome. I hadn't heard about it till I started using this site. I'm sure I'll be going down this road sometime soon myself. I'm pretty certain that plenty of PB, the right sized wrench, and patience should get them off without any problems. If the bolt heads become rounded off there are some really good bolt extractors out there that will bite onto them so you can turn them again.

Start this job on a Saturday morning, so that if you break anything, you remove the head in the afternoon, then drill out any broken bolts.

Drink beer, then Sunday put it all back together!

here is something I do to make this job way easier to do..

you will need 2 jacks one under the back of the cradle and the other under the body.
remove the 2 rear cradle bolts and jack up the body a little you will gain about 6" of room from the front exhaust to the fire wall.
then when done lower the body and jack up the cradle and reinstall the bolts.
this is called inservice mode, that is why the front cradle mounts on Fieros are pivot points
D.

being a cali car - you may not have as much an issue as those of us in the "rust belt"
but, I would suggest you make arrangements for a something to drive prior to jumping in to this.
because the other end - the y-pipe to manifold bolts can be problematic too. yes, salvaging them isnt as much work, but they normally arent in any shape for re-use. perhaps get a set of them beforehand. they are not "normal" bolts. tho, I expect you can replace w/normal bolts.

All the bolts from the y pipe down are new. The car has no rust what so ever so this might help a little. I will most likely hold off until sat. I will apply little amounts of pb blaster everyday until then.

You need to get the Blaster at the threads, use a pick to "drill" a channel through the gasket to the bolt threads then use the little tube. An angle impact wrench is your best friend. If not, use a BF hammer to smack the bolts on the head before trying to remove them. Tightening the bolts first works. As I broke loose each bolt, I smeared anti-sieze on a new bolt and immediately reinstalled it as I was going along. This takes the pressure off the remaining bolts that need to be removed. Think of this project as working on a brake bleeder screw, a good 6-point wrench or socket, 1 hit to tighten and 2 to loosen and repeat.

Don't feel like you're forced to do this all in one day, I did my daily driver in little steps over the course of a couple weeks while driving it every day.

HAHAHAH you broke two of them. I can only laugh because I did the same thing. One came out somewhat easily but the other.... I've never cussed so much in my life. Tried all of the tricks. Until I broke out the hole some then had to JB a stud back in.

Unfortunately the bolts have an upward angle and PB blaster does not flow uphill so good ,,jack the front end up HIGH then pb blast..

When using a wrench or socket keep the L angle perfect,,any diviation from 90o puts more stress on the bolts..direct pressure on the bolt
tapping the head of the bolts may help loosen rust ,,do not rush...
I have not tried the new "freeze" spray can method ..hope someone will chime in who has tried this new product
breaking one of these bolts create s a difficult extraction process,,if you do break bolt unless you are a diehard gearhead have a shop remove..
Removing a broken exhaust bolt from the front side is beyond the skill of most Fiero owners ,,the center cylinder is not to difficult,,but the end ones are a real bear
Of course heat helps,, if you break a bolt use heat,, then try to remove while heated

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 09-16-2009).]

Pray.
Oil.
Pray.
More oil.
Pray.
Wrench one.
Pray.
Wrench another.
Pray.
Etc until you finish or you snap one.

quote Originally posted by 87antuzzi: I can't afford to screw this up.

Eek! That guarantees it. At least one is going to snap. Use allot more oil.

Really... sorry. Never say that.

drive and cool down enough so that oil will not burn.
Spray oil.
Repeat.
Do it as many time you can.

Oil will work faster if engine is hot/warm and cool down.

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Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.
(Jurassic Park)

The Ogre's Fiero Cave (It's also at the top of every forum page...)

[This message has been edited by theogre (edited 09-16-2009).]

You can also try a block of wax. You just heat up the bolts and touch the wax to them. The wax works its way into the threads and lubricates. I have done it on exhaust bolts and old tie rod ends.

just pb blast it atleast the day before to let it soak in....then try wrenching them out..if you do happen to break some off, no bid deal...there is enough meat there to drill out and tapp....drilling and tapping isn't difficult at all...when you drill, start with a pilot hole (meaning drill a whole in the center that is fairly small) then follow it up with the size you will be tapping...be sure to drill very, very slowly and use some cutting oil specifically designed for this....then, use your tap to put new threads in....i had to do this to multiple manifold bolts that broke off with me..i was nervous about doing it at first but after i did it, i realized how simple it really is...but then again, the engine was out of the car and sitting on a stand

Patrick posted about a guide for drilling the bolts, looks like the way to go. It's a KENT MOORE J-38782 FIERO 2.8L EXHAUST EXTRACTOR KIT. It bolts to the head and guides the drill bits so that the broken studs can be drilled out straight.

Pictures of the guide and more exhaust gasket tips are in this little write up,,,,
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/065384.html

I posted this in the Last Manifold bolt removal thread. Use a .020 dril bit, & drill through the exaust manifold GASKET above each bolt, then the pb blaster can go "straight to the threads".

quote Originally posted by Lou6t4gto: I posted this in the Last Manifold bolt removal thread. Use a .020 dril bit, & drill through the exaust manifold GASKET above each bolt, then the pb blaster can go "straight to the threads".

slick idea
the firewall side is kinda tough to do this with, isnt it?

quote Originally posted by jetman: Patrick posted about a guide for drilling the bolts, looks like the way to go. It's a KENT MOORE J-38782 FIERO 2.8L EXHAUST EXTRACTOR KIT. It bolts to the head and guides the drill bits so that the broken studs can be drilled out straight. Pictures of the guide and more exhaust gasket tips are in this little write up,,,, https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/065384.html

To accomplish the same thing without an expensive kit:

First, I smoothed the bolt tops with a dremel stone.

I bolted the manifold back onto the head.

Then, with a large drill bit which just barely fits in the bolt hole, drill until you have a center mark.

Once you have a center mark, remove the manifold, and drill out the bolt starting with small bits.

Clean up threads with a tap, and done.

Give a good application of anti-seize on the new bolts.

When done you may desire to reinstall studs. IF YOU DO ONLY PUT STUDS IN THE BOTTOM HOLES then put some ARP or other high quality bolts in the tops. The reason why is if you need to replace your exhaust manifold gaskets then you loosen off the nuts on the bottoms then remove the tops. Slip out the old and drop in the new then tighten everything up. Makes the job WAY EASY! Just a hint.

quote Originally posted by jetman: Patrick posted about a guide for drilling the bolts, looks like the way to go. It's a KENT MOORE J-38782 FIERO 2.8L EXHAUST EXTRACTOR KIT. It bolts to the head and guides the drill bits so that the broken studs can be drilled out straight.

I am working on a reproduction of this drill jig along with a few upgrades. I should have some finished soon.

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Rodney Dickman

Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page:
www.rodneydickman.com
Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories
7604 Treeview Drive
Caledonia, WI 53108
Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575

You guys made this job sound so easy I think I'm gona go out and change my exhaust manifold gaskets just for the hell of it

Nice write-up.

Spoon

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Two yeast spent their entire life "about 2 days" discussing what the purpose of life could be and not once did they even come close to the fact that they were making champagne. Quoted by: Unknown

i just did my 88gt yesterday. no broken bolts! lots of pb blaster for 3 days of soaking. take your time with wrenching the bolts out. i had a blown manifold gasket. some one had used a machine bolt in place of a manifold bolt. it would not seat properly. the bolt was to long. you could not see it . it was used underthe manifold. when it was tight there was still a 1/4 inch gap. a.k.a. blown gasket. know i can here my osolot exhaust. NICE!! p.s. i purchased the car 8 mounths ago with the bad leak. remember to use pb blaster, also worm up the engine a little. good luck.....!!!!!!!!!!!!

One more tip. After soaking with PB for a day or two or more, before you try loosening the bolt, slightly turn in the "tightening" direction to the right just a little. Then go to the left just a little. The idea is to break up any rust that the blaster did not get to. Wiggle the bolt back and forth bringing it out a little farther each turn. If you have patience and take your time you can feel the little Bas&*^d bolts starting to gaul. When you feel this, go the other way easy. If it feel like it's siezing up, hose it down with blaster and you work it back and forth. This will help the blaster saturate the threads.

Another tip, you might want to clean out the bolts holes with a bottoming tap once you have the old bolts out. You'd be suprized at the amount of crap that comes out. Keep the tap clean, back out often to remove he build up; use lots of lubricant. When all finished, beer and your favorite pain reliever to fix your aching lower back!

Cheers,

Mark

When these come out easily someone else was in there in the past 10 years ,,I used the tiny drill bit thru the gasket with success..jacking the front of the car as high as you can get it,, will assist the penetrant ..my bolts were probably from the year of manufacture. I had 4 bolts break,, 2 were bears I could not get to the bolt behind the A/C had to pull the engine the small drill holes made removal easier of 2 broken bolts very difficult for me to do,,I even drilled a hole in the block to get penetrant to bolt where alternator is,, SOAKED it from the bottom of bolt threads

Penetrant needs all the help it can get,,,, very difficult to flo up hill

the wax tip is how rusty bolts were removed before penetrant..it works
if you do not have a bottom tap,, you can use a bolt long enough to bottom to remove a lot of crap especially rust..grease on the bolt helps remove trash.. I pb blasted it,then use brake cleaner then Q tips and soft rag swabs to finish clean.. hi temp grease on threads when I reinstall

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 09-19-2009).]

quote Originally posted by jetman: Patrick posted about a guide for drilling the bolts, looks like the way to go. It's a KENT MOORE J-38782 FIERO 2.8L EXHAUST EXTRACTOR KIT. It bolts to the head and guides the drill bits so that the broken studs can be drilled out straight. Pictures of the guide and more exhaust gasket tips are in this little write up,,,, https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/065384.html

quote Originally posted by pmbrunelle: To accomplish the same thing without an expensive kit...

Including shipping, the "expensive kit" cost me a whopping $23.90 on eBay.

quote Originally posted by pmbrunelle: Once you have a center mark, remove the manifold, and drill out the bolt starting with small bits...

Your method is certainly better than doing it entirely freehand, but of course once you remove the manifold, you no longer have anything to help guide the angle of the drill bit through the broken bolts (not that the manifold would work as well in this regard as the plate in the kit).

[This message has been edited by Patrick (edited 09-20-2009).]

PB does not work where I come from. When I tried to replace my exhaust manifold gaskets I broke two bolts and ended up pulling the engine in order to get them out. I know a guy from GM and used his GM EZ-outs to take out the bolts. One went fine. When I attempted the other, the HARDENED steel EZ-out broke, and because of this I could not drill out the old bolt. I welded nut after nut on the end of the broken bolt, with no sucess. Finally, I decided to weld on a nut then continually hit it with a hammer out of anger. That actually ended up breaking it loose. My advice- Whack all the bolts with a hammer before attempting to remove them.

I was lucky, using a left hand drill bit was enough to get a broken bolt out of the head when I had to do it. However I did hit it the PB blaster for a week before hand and lot of heat (including mapp/oxy) on the day, plus the usual BFH and a drift to help it along!

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Dave

www.ltlfrari.com

Mine busted but with heat they came out pretty easy. These bolts were sealed with a meltable compound. So if it's possible to torq on the bolts when the engine is good and hot without burning yourself....I say go for it!

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84 Duke, Holley TBI, Manual Trans 4.10, CompuCam, White

Lots of great tips here but working on cars 20-25 years old and finding it easy is not always the case.. If you own an old car then you must always be prepared for the inevitable problem of breaking bolts, especailly on exhaust parts. Having said that here is my tip. If the bolt head breaks off and there is a stub sticking out mig weld another bolt to it and back it out with a socket wrench. The heat of the mig welder is usually enough to get those suckers backed out. In the very worse case they will be need to be drilled and removed with an easy out but I prefer to do this operation on the bench. Its alot of work but its the only way that I know of to do the job correctly.

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" THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite.
"THE COLUSSUS"
87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H
" ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "

quote Originally posted by Patrick: Your method is certainly better than doing it entirely freehand, but of course once you remove the manifold, you no longer have anything to help guide the angle of the drill bit through the broken bolts (not that the manifold would work as well in this regard as the plate in the kit).

It definitely couldn't hurt to use it. Especially if done on the car. I would use one if I had one laying around.

I was just pointing out another way to do it.