I'm wanting to do a 7730 ECM Swap with my stock 2.8L....since i already hove the engine out of the car and the wiring harness loose, and the interior torn apart, i thought it would be a good time to do this...i have the ECM and will be getting in reprogrammed by Darth_Fiero...I've read through the thread he started that's like 15 pages long but w/ my lack of knowledge and experience as of right now, i'm having trouble sifting through all of the info...i'm basicall looking for someone who has done the swap and used the 7730 on a 2.8L V6 Stock and can answer my questions. Anyone? Thanks

Did you download the Pin-out sheets that Darth Fiero has on his website? That's a place to start. It's not all that hard, it just takes time. I haven't finished my project yet, but i did the wiring part of it already.

yes..i got them...i think i'm gonna start on repinning tonight...is there any special tool i need to do this?

You don't "need" this tool, you can use a paperclip, but it REALLY helps.
http://sastool.com/product_...th=29&products_id=91

ok, so just a slew of questions here. First let me give a rundown on my set up...i'm doing the 7730 swap with a 2.8L Stock. I will be keeping the distributor and doing a Digital EGR....ok, so....

1.) where can i guy the digital EGR?
2.) What all vacuum hoses can i eliminate?
3.) What other items can i delete?
4.) Do i need to knock sensor disabled?

[This message has been edited by labbe001 (edited 10-14-2009).]

yes, the gmtuners.com is where to get the info to do the swap
the thread is where to go to discuss problems when you run into them

1> junkyard is the easy answer to get a digi EGR
2> none, really - well - the vacuum line from the EGR solenoid to the EGR mushroom
3> the EGR solenoid, the radiator fan temp switch, the cold start injector system
4> optional

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: yes, the gmtuners.com is where to get the info to do the swap the thread is where to go to discuss problems when you run into them 1> junkyard is the easy answer to get a digi EGR 2> none, really - well - the vacuum line from the EGR solenoid to the EGR mushroom 3> the EGR solenoid, the radiator fan temp switch, the cold start injector system 4> optional

so i can delete the EGR solenoid altogether..and just delete from my wiring harness the electrical wire for the connector?
so if i delete the radiator fan switch, how does the radiator fan know when to kick on? do i just use a plug where the fan switch used to be? can i also eliminate completely the wiring to this from my wiring harness?
what all components are included in the cold start injector system to be removed?

sorry for all the questions....i've read the long thread started by darth fiero but i just get bogged down and confused...thanks for the help

I highly recommend repinning rather than cut/splice/solder. My fingers were raw after about 8 hours of that mess.

Just unplug the cold start switch. You can do several things with the unused connectors depending on your taste. Cut off the connector and hide the wires, or just leave the connector unplugged near the original position, or try to hide the unused connector. Same for the cold start injector connector on the other end. Depends on if you want to someday return the car to stock. You have to leave the actual cold start injector in place as it plugs a big hole in the intake on one side and another hole on the fuel rail.

quote Originally posted by labbe001: so i can delete the EGR solenoid altogether..and just delete from my wiring harness the electrical wire for the connector? so if i delete the radiator fan switch, how does the radiator fan know when to kick on? do i just use a plug where the fan switch used to be? can i also eliminate completely the wiring to this from my wiring harness? what all components are included in the cold start injector system to be removed? sorry for all the questions....i've read the long thread started by darth fiero but i just get bogged down and confused...thanks for the help

not a problem
yes - the solenoid & the mushroom are both replaced with the digi EGR. yes, you will remove the wiring. unless you plan DIS? in which case, you can use the +12v & Gnd wires from the EGR solenoid to power the DIS coil packs
the rad fan will now be controlled by the ECM - and its only 1 wire
the cold start injector - I left the parts themselves in place, since I have not found a cap for the fuel rail, or a plug for the temp swicth, or a blank for the actual injector. just removed the wires. which also was not much.

quote Originally posted by labbe001: so i can delete the EGR solenoid altogether..and just delete from my wiring harness the electrical wire for the connector?

I believe Darth's instructions allow you to reuse the original Fiero wiring for the new digital EGR. You would need to cutoff the Fiero connector and swap the wires to the proper spot on the digital EGR, fused power supply, etc. The instructions are pretty specific on what wire goes where on both ends of the wire.

quote so if i delete the radiator fan switch, how does the radiator fan know when to kick on? do i just use a plug where the fan switch used to be? can i also eliminate completely the wiring to this from my wiring harness?

The ECM uses the Coolant Temp Sensor now. No need for a separate switch. This one is easy if you realize what Darth's instructions are having you do. You cut the Dark Green wire at PIN C on the old EGR Solenoid connector. Connect this wire to the old Fan Switch wire that used to connect to the fan switch. Now on the other end at the ECM you move the old Dark Green wire from PIN D8 to new location GE8. (YE8 if you have the yellow ecm connectors like me) This allows you to reuse original wiring instead of running a new wire from the engine bay to the cabin.

quote what all components are included in the cold start injector system to be removed?

I think I answered above before you wrote this question.

quote sorry for all the questions....i've read the long thread started by darth fiero but i just get bogged down and confused...thanks for the help

Hope we all can help.

[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 10-14-2009).]

kool...thanks guys.... +'s all around...so when you are referring to darth's instructions, you are talking about the pin outs correct?

quote Originally posted by labbe001: kool...thanks guys.... +'s all around...so when you are referring to darth's instructions, you are talking about the pin outs correct?

yup. he has a PDF which has a detailed re-wiring table, which even includes the wire colors.

what would be the reason for the knock sensor....what are the pro's and con's of this?
also saw on this https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F.../HTML/079574-17.html page of the post where mister installed a EVAP control unit...what exaclty is that and what does it do?
also saw where he installed a "Set timing connector"...is this necessary and if not, is it atleast recommended to do? thanks

[This message has been edited by labbe001 (edited 10-14-2009).]

The fan switch and cold start switch can be replaced with standard pipe thread (NPT) plugs. If I remember correctly, they're 3/8" NPT. You can find these plugs at your local hardware store. Make sure to get brass, not plastic.

You can plug the fitting on the fuel rail with a short metric bolt. I forget the exact bolt size, but it's a common metric bolt thread. I bought the bolt at Ace Hardware. You may need to get one that's a little too long and cut it short. It would be a good idea to get stainless steel, so it doesn't rust up.

While you're at it, you can also delete the throttle body heater lines. You just unplug them from the throttle body, and chop off the part that mounts the MAP sensor (that part needs to stay on the engine). Then cap off the two nipples on the thermostat housing (or loop a short piece of hose across them).

Does Alabama have vehicle inspections? If not, then you could just delete the EGR. Darth can program the ECM to work without it.

Edit to add: there are no cons to adding the knock sensor (aside from running a wire and buying the sensor). The benefit is that you gain some protection against engine knock.

Also, the "set timing" connector is necessary in order to set the timing. With the Fiero ECM, you short the diagnostic terminals to set the timing. But with the 7730 ECM, you unplug that connector.

[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 10-14-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: The fan switch and cold start switch can be replaced with standard pipe thread (NPT) plugs. If I remember correctly, they're 3/8" NPT. You can find these plugs at your local hardware store. Make sure to get brass, not plastic. You can plug the fitting on the fuel rail with a short metric bolt. I forget the exact bolt size, but it's a common metric bolt thread. I bought the bolt at Ace Hardware. You may need to get one that's a little too long and cut it short. It would be a good idea to get stainless steel, so it doesn't rust up. While you're at it, you can also delete the throttle body heater lines. You just unplug them from the throttle body, and chop off the part that mounts the MAP sensor (that part needs to stay on the engine). Then cap off the two nipples on the thermostat housing (or loop a short piece of hose across them). Does Alabama have vehicle inspections? If not, then you could just delete the EGR. Darth can program the ECM to work without it. Edit to add: there are no cons to adding the knock sensor (aside from running a wire and buying the sensor). The benefit is that you gain some protection against engine knock. Also, the "set timing" connector is necessary in order to set the timing. With the Fiero ECM, you short the diagnostic terminals to set the timing. But with the 7730 ECM, you unplug that connector.

alabama does not have vehicle inspection, yet anyways...but i wanted to go ahead with the digital egr in case this car is ever registered in another state..is there any difference in performance of the car w/ or w/o the EGR or does it basically amount to just wiring it up...any pro's/con's either way?

where can i get a "set timing" connector ...does anyone have a part number? also, how does it wire up?


man, there's alot more to this than i thought..i was under the impression that it was just a matter of re-pinning the connectors and running a few extra wires...atleast for the 2.8L application

thanks to everyone for all the help so far and not just referring me back to the darth post...like i've said, i've read through it a few times but there's so much in there that's just WAY over my head and it gets tough to differentiate b/t what is useful to what i'm doing and what is not relative. i'm documenting everything that i'm doing so that when i get done, i can post a how to w/ pics for just the 2.8L...hopefully this will encourage other's to attempt and be successful...hopefully i will be successful myself

[This message has been edited by labbe001 (edited 10-14-2009).]

quote Originally posted by labbe001: alabama does not have vehicle inspection, yet anyways...but i wanted to go ahead with the digital egr in case this car is ever registered in another state..is there any difference in performance of the car w/ or w/o the EGR or does it basically amount to just wiring it up...any pro's/con's either way?

Without the EGR you will lose some MPG. Also if it wasn't mentioned, you need an adaptor plate to mount the digital EGR. You need to PM Marc (Gwain here on PFF). Great guy with fast shipping. You just need to verify that he has some made up if you are in a hurry...

quote Originally posted by labbe001: where can i get a "set timing" connector ...does anyone have a part number? also, how does it wire up?

All you need is a single weather pack connector. At the plug that goes to the distributor you need to splice the connector into the tan wire (if I remember right). This is so you can just unplug it to set the timing. If don't need to set the timing you don't really have to do this, you just have to realize that to set the timing you have to "break the connection" to that wire. You can also do that by unpinning it ECM connector to "break the connection".

quote Originally posted by labbe001: man, there's alot more to this than i thought..i was under the impression that it was just a matter of re-pinning the connectors and running a few extra wires...atleast for the 2.8L application

You don't have to unpin all the connections... You could make an adaptor to do the same thing (Jncomutt did it in Darth's thread)... It would require using the connector from inside the Fiero ECM, then solder those wires to 7730 ECM connectors... That would let you go back to the stock ECM for diagnostic reasons...


If you need an ECM, Madess may still have a couple for sale. I streamlined a lot of information in that thread. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/045909.html

------------------
-Brian

My 87 GT Poly Suspension Upgrade (all pics) thread https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/094633.html

The EGR only opens under part throttle cruise conditions. If you are seriously pressing the go pedal it's closed.

The "set timing" connector is simply using a male and female connector on the EST BYPASS wire. When you go to set base timing at 10* BTDC then you disconnect the male/female connector which removes all ECM commanded timing advance. This allows use of a timing light as you move the distributor until your timing marks line up on 10*. After you tighten the dist hold down bolt you reconnect the EST BYPASS and leave it be until the next time you want to set base timing.

Adding the digital EGR adds to the complexity. You will need the mounting base off the donor car from the junkyard. It is different than the stock Fiero. You will need to weld it on the exhaust pipe in place of the stock unit. Personally I deleted the EGR as it was one more thing to break.

The digital EVAP canister is the latest version of the standard vacuum EVAP canister you have stock. I just kept my stock unit.

[This message has been edited by Hudini (edited 10-14-2009).]

You can splice in an O2 sensor plug for the EST bypass wire. Worked for me!

quote Originally posted by Blacktree: While you're at it, you can also delete the throttle body heater lines. You just unplug them from the throttle body, and chop off the part that mounts the MAP sensor (that part needs to stay on the engine). Then cap off the two nipples on the thermostat housing (or loop a short piece of hose across them).

why is it that i can do this? basically, i would be deleting the metal tubes that run from the thermostat housing to the tb but cutting them so i leave the bracket for the MAP? i guess i've never really thought about it..but why are they there in the first place and why can i delete them now?

[This message has been edited by labbe001 (edited 10-15-2009).]

quote Originally posted by labbe001: why is it that i can do this? basically, i would be deleting the metal tubes that run from the thermostat housing to the tb but cutting them so i leave the bracket for the MAP? i guess i've never really thought about it..but why are they there in the first place and why can i delete them now?

you could remove the TB coolant/heater lines anytime you like. they are there to prevent throttle body icing. this is not an issue for most folk - even up here in Michigan

Why? One more place to leak. I believe it's unrelated to the 7730 swap though. I ended up cutting the tubes on the t-stat housing and welding up the holes left behind. I run a turbo and the TB gets plenty of hot air.....

I'm not 100% sure of the reason they are installed. Some people have said it's for what's commonly called "carb icing". Where the venturi effect cools moist intake air until it forms ice in the TB. Others have said it's for warming the engine faster to reduce emissions. Don't know for certain.

ok, so the muddy water is starting to get a little more clear thanks to all you guys and your generosity

so last night i followed the Fiero Harness > 7730 connector pinout and successfully got that done..however when i was looking at the pinout for the 7730 ECM secondary harness connections i ran into problems....hardley any of the colors listed on the chart matched the colors for my connector...for example, the pinout instructions say BC1 should be red, mine was brown....it also says, BD13 should be lt blu/ org and min was tan/yellow...i know the pinout says these are not needed but i just wanted to see if anyone else has ran into this...also, in "Action" needed it talks about splicing wires....for example, splicing BB9 ppl > ppl/wht to terminal R of the C203 Connector....when you "splice" these wires, are you completely cutting the wire away from the R termial and now re-routing it to the BB9 Pin or are you tee'ing off from it with the BB9 so that you have a wire from the R terminal and the BB9 to the VSS Low?
i also encountered a problem w/ my Fiero C203 Connector...once again, the colors on my connector didn't match teh pinout..for example, Pin "A" should be tan/blk...mine didn't have a wire....pinout says Pin "B" is Org, mine's Org/Blk...Pinout says Pin "P" is Ppl, mine has nothing...is this common or has anyone ran into this problem?


man, i feel like a complete dope asking these questions but with this being my first ever swap, i really just want to get everything exactly right and not have to go back a re-do after it's all put back in the car

The most important thing is making sure you have the right pin location, not so much the color. You never know what the previous owner has done. A multimeter is great for continuity testing should there be any doubt.

Splicing means T the new wire into the C203 existing wires. You are going to piggy back off the raw VSS signal before it goes to the speedo. The Fiero as stock is wired where the VSS signal goes to the speedo then back to the ECM. Notice on page 1 where it says delete the A10 wire from the old Fiero ECM (2000 PPM from the speedo)?

quote Originally posted by Hudini: The most important thing is making sure you have the right pin location, not so much the color. You never know what the previous owner has done. A multimeter is great for continuity testing should there be any doubt. Splicing means T the new wire into the C203 existing wires. You are going to piggy back off the raw VSS signal before it goes to the speedo. The Fiero as stock is wired where the VSS signal goes to the speedo then back to the ECM. Notice on page 1 where it says delete the A10 wire from the old Fiero ECM (2000 PPM from the speedo)?

o, ok....well that makes me feel much better about the colors....

i'm sure i already know what the answer to this question is going to be, but i'll ask it anyway...with my 7730 connectors, i have spare wires left over and not accounted for..is this typical and should i just remove and disgard them? thanks

quote Originally posted by labbe001: o, ok....well that makes me feel much better about the colors.... i'm sure i already know what the answer to this question is going to be, but i'll ask it anyway...with my 7730 connectors, i have spare wires left over and not accounted for..is this typical and should i just remove and disgard them? thanks

I removed the spares from the connector, to avoid confusion when double checking the wiring, but left a cluster of wires in the harness going thru the firewall for later stuff.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: I removed the spares from the connector, to avoid confusion when double checking the wiring, but left a cluster of wires in the harness going thru the firewall for later stuff.

so basically, if i follow the pinouts and have all those wires hooked up accordingly, any spares from the 7730 connector pigtails i can chunk and any spares from the fiero connector/wiring harness, i can remove from connector and tape off or something? so it's normal to have a great deal of wires left over correct?

a great deal? no wasnt that many. I also deleted the A/C on mine, so I had them extras. I would check the function of the leftovers, and see what they do, and check if maybe something was missed.

Since I deleted the EGR, I had a few wires leftover. But if I wouldn't have deleted it, I don't think there would have been any leftovers.

update?

Labbe I have a digital EGR adapter if you are interested. PM for details.