Ummm. sorry but several shops I know just around town here also only use acrylic laquer primer. So much of it, that local paint suppliers keep it in stock and they dont stock any laquer paint. They dont stock supplies no one uses. Many of the paint people here are younger and never used anything but the new stuff stores push on you., like you apparently, believe all the crap the salesmen tell you. The reason laquer is being or has been fazed out in the last few years has nothing to do with the paint itself. Its the EPA determining that laquer is bad for the enviornment. Soon urathane, which if you read the label is FAR MORE dangerous to people than laquer ever was, will be gone too. Government is pushing for waterbourne paints in the near future. It was experimented with in the 80s and is currently being used on some cars now. Painting urathane without a mask will kill you in just a few paint jobs where laquer pretty much just got you a quick high.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Ummm. sorry but several shops I know just around town here also only use acrylic laquer primer. So much of it, that local paint suppliers keep it in stock and they dont stock any laquer paint. They dont stock supplies no one uses. Many of the paint people here are younger and never used anything but the new stuff stores push on you., like you apparently, believe all the crap the salesmen tell you. The reason laquer is being or has been fazed out in the last few years has nothing to do with the paint itself. Its the EPA determining that laquer is bad for the enviornment. Soon urathane, which if you read the label is FAR MORE dangerous to people than laquer ever was, will be gone too. Government is pushing for waterbourne paints in the near future. It was experimented with in the 80s and is currently being used on some cars now. Painting urathane without a mask will kill you in just a few paint jobs where laquer pretty much just got you a quick high.

The reason shops use laquer primer is the same reason you do: It dries quickly & you don't have to clean the gun every time. Not because it's a better product. They don't care about anything except getting the job out as quickly as possible & collecting the money. Doesn't change the way it reacts to the solvents in paint. There are a LOT (most, actually) of shops that DON'T use laquer primer, in spite of those advantages. Should tell you something.
I use the better products to make the job last MUCH longer, not because someone told me to use it. I've seen it in action - in the real world.
Laquer primer is fine if you're painting with laquer paint. When shooting urethanes over it, it will trap solvents in the primer as the urethane catalyzes over it. I've stripped a lot of cars with razor blades that've been painted this way. Most recently the hood of my BMW - which BTW also had little tiny rust spots 'cause laquer primer is porous & permeable.
Yeah I agree with you on the gov. intervention. Nothing but a bunch of IDIOTS (& greedy bastards) running this country!!!
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Did you hear about the guy who was proud when he completed a jigsaw puzzle in 30 minutes? Yeah it said "5 to 6 years" on the box.

I stripped many semi cabs with razor blades because the paint didnt stick to OEM synthetic primers from the factory. I still strip many cars clearcoats off with razor blades because it dont stick to the base, or the base didnt stick to the factory sealer. Ive had some factory paint jobs I stripped to bare primer at the car wash next door with $10.00 worth of quarters. Ive never had a single come back of ANY paint or clear coming off my primer. NOT ONE in 40 years.

When you say no one else, you obviouly must mean yourself and some other people. EPA is the ONLY reason its not used....well that and missinformed painters. All my experience is from REAL WORLD, and not from your fantasyland. Im not as arrogant and bullheaded as you. I just say what works and always works for me. Im not like you and demand everyone follow my instructions to the letter because I am god. When I get a car come back for peeling paint, I might rethink my knowlege. Everyone else is free to do what they want, has no effect on me one way or the other. Your mindset strikes me as very Obama like. Your right, no matter the cost or facts.

[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 01-13-2010).]

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: When you say no one else, you obviouly must mean yourself and some other people. EPA is the ONLY reason its not used....well that and missinformed painters. All my experience is from REAL WORLD, and not from your fantasyland. Im not as arrogant and bullheaded as you. I just say what works and always works for me. Im not like you and demand everyone follow my instructions to the letter because I am god. When I get a car come back for peeling paint, I might rethink my knowlege. Everyone else is free to do what they want, has no effect on me one way or the other. Your mindset strikes me as very Obama like. Your right, no matter the cost or facts.

GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY!!!! Where do I say "no one else"? Just because you refuse to adjust to current technology to save time & money doesn't mean the folks who do think they are God!!! Un-freakin'-real!!!
Now you're just being an ***hole.
If laquer primer was as good as epoxy, don't you think a poor person like myself would use it? I make about 5% of what you do. I use PPG epoxy on my own cars 'cause it has BETTER ADHESION than laquer primer, BETTER SEALING than laquer primer, & makes the job LAST LONGER than laquer primer. I use the cheaper Nason paint on MOST of my cars 'cause I can't afford Sikkens for all of them.
I've said it before: I give advice on how to do the job RIGHT. RIGHT includes making it last as long as possible. If folks can't afford to spend a grand on paint & materials, I offer good alternatives. If they don't care AT ALL what the job looks like or how long it lasts, I suggest they take it to Maaco.
With all the time & effort it takes to prep & paint a car there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER (other than greed) to short-cut it by using laquer primer. Laquer primer is good only if you're painting laquer paint. Sure you can get by with it, but it's STILL short-cutting & not doing the BEST JOB YOU CAN.

[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 01-13-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: I just meant that no one else is using laquer primer & paint for a reason. Several reasons, actually...

Your own statement.............

If your theory held any water, you just contradicted yourself right out of it. First basecoat color is essentially modified laquer. Its just had enough modification to make it acceptable to EPA. Anyone who has painted laquer knows that basecoat color goes on and sprays just like laquer...it even dries in minutes the same. You say that the clearcoat seals in the solvents (thinner) from the laquer causing it to separate because its catalyzed. Well basecoat color is an AIRDRY, NOT A CATALYZED component exactly the same as laquer because its basicly the same thing. If your theory held any water, why dont the clearcoat peel right off its own basecoat ? Your putting catalyzed clear over air dried paint....exactly the same thing as putting it over air dried laquer primer. Yet it sticks. Just like Gore, you only see the facts that support you and ignore the rest that wont fit.

While your jobs may look fantastic, your job is no better than mine that takes less time and far less expensive. My quality is also no better than yours. Your drinking only $2.00 a bottle water is not any better for you than my $2.00 a thousand gallon tap water....except it makes a lot more sense. I have no problem with you spending more time and money for the same result. Its a free country.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: Your own statement.............

Oh OK I miss-spoke there. I should have said "Only a teeny-tiny number of people" instead of "no one".

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: If your theory held any water, you just contradicted yourself right out of it. First basecoat color is essentially modified laquer. Its just had enough modification to make it acceptable to EPA. Anyone who has painted laquer knows that basecoat color goes on and sprays just like laquer...it even dries in minutes the same. You say that the clearcoat seals in the solvents (thinner) from the laquer causing it to separate because its catalyzed. Well basecoat color is an AIRDRY, NOT A CATALYZED component exactly the same as laquer because its basicly the same thing. If your theory held any water, why dont the clearcoat peel right off its own basecoat ? Your putting catalyzed clear over air dried paint....exactly the same thing as putting it over air dried laquer primer. Yet it sticks. Just like Gore, you only see the facts that support you and ignore the rest that wont fit.

Really?
Nason base coat:
CONTAINS: Polyester resin, cellulose acetate butyrat, butyl acetate, vm&p naphtha, methyl isobutyl keytone, methyl amy keytone, ethyl benzene, xylene. When mixed with ACTIVATOR, also contains aliphatic polyisocyanate, resin and hexamethylene diiso-cyanate monomer.
Black laquer:
CONTAINS: Toulene, methyl ethyl keytone, butyl benzyl phthalate, methyl isobutyl keytone, cx0-h~~~~ acetate, titanium dioxide, isobutyl alchohol, ~~~~~phy alchohol, naphtha, trimethyl benzine, n-butyl alcohol, xylene, ethyl alcohol. (Can't read the "~" letters 'cause of paint on the can.)

I only see a couple of the same ingredients. Notice the resin in the basecoat. Not only that, notice where on the base coat it says "When mixed with ACTIVATOR"? Does that term ring a bell (maybe not in your case, since you only use laquer). Once again, your ASSUMPTIONS are wrong.

quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: While your jobs may look fantastic, your job is no better than mine that takes less time and far less expensive. My quality is also no better than yours. Your drinking only $2.00 a bottle water is not any better for you than my $2.00 a thousand gallon tap water....except it makes a lot more sense. I have no problem with you spending more time and money for the same result. Its a free country.

And yet you charge thousands of $$$ for them. And I KNOW mine are better jobs & will last longer. They may look the same, but put them out in the weather for a few decades & drive them every day & see the differences.
And yes I do drink bottled water 'cause I DON'T HAVE clean "tap" water (we call them "faucets" down here - a tap is what cuts threads) - & I'm not about to drink the rain water I collect off of the roof.
But I guess, after 40+ years, I still don't know anything about paint...
~ Paul
aka "Tha Driver"

Remember 1/2 of the population is below average.

I dont use expensive PPG or Dupont stuff so I cant say for sure. None of the basecoat colors I spray use a catalyst or hardener. I can tint my base colors with laquer so that shows right there that theyre compatable. I use BASF, R&M, Sherwin Williams, Glasurit, AutoColor....all also top quality name brands. R&M was the supplier for paint to GM for 40 years. I dont know who does now. BASF partnered up with R&M years back.

I guess I got you beat with 48 years of painting cars. As Ive said many a time, new technology dont mean better. Handmade Amish furniture is far superior to presswood hi tech crap furniture factories turn out. New gasoline is a lot harder on engines than old leaded gas, New TVs fizzle a lot sooner than old CRT ones..........

We can continue the back n forth forever but I actually am just getting tired of it. Im missing good shows on TV....so ill just say Im done here. People here can make their own decisions on what to use for whatever product they want for the same reason cars come in black, red or white. I will continue to give my advice and opinions.

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Owner / Operator Custom Paint and Body...
specializing in Corvette & Higher End Autos for 40+ years
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quote Originally posted by rogergarrison: new technology dont mean better. Handmade Amish furniture is far superior to presswood hi tech crap furniture factories turn out. New gasoline is a lot harder on engines than old leaded gas, New TVs fizzle a lot sooner than old CRT ones..........

As with a lot of things, I'm in complete agreement with you there.
But - apples & oranges... (or more like apples & watermelons)
~ Paul