How much extra HP does the intercooled 3800 SC make over a NA engine?
What is the availability of an intercooler and blower at the junk yard?
Sorry for all basic questions, but I know very little about the 3800 SC engines or superchargers. I have been reading some SC literature and am interested in finding out more.
I guess the real question here is will the intercooler and blower fit under the deck lid on top of a 60D motor??
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08:47 AM
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Scoobysruvenge Member
Posts: 550 From: Richmond Virginia Registered: Apr 2009
The question is there room under the deck lid for it???
I am impressed at the compact nature and lack fabrication needed for this set up vs. a turbo that must be plumed into the exhaust system as well as the intercooler and intake, the SC could eliminate a lot of that.
How much extra HP does the intercooled 3800 SC make over a NA engine?
What is the availability of an intercooler and blower at the junk yard?
Sorry for all basic questions, but I know very little about the 3800 SC engines or superchargers. I have been reading some SC literature and am interested in finding out more.
I guess the real question here is will the intercooler and blower fit under the deck lid on top of a 60D motor??
Does the 3800 SC come with a factory Intercooler?
No
How good is the intercooler if so equipped?
With full size IC they work very well.
How much room between deck lid with intercooler?
The Dl has to be notched when a full size IC is added
Has anyone supercharged a 60D engine?
NO clue what a 60D is.
How much extra HP does the intercooled 3800 SC make over a NA engine?
Depends on what pulley/MOds you run.
What is the availability of an intercooler and blower at the junk yard?
Blowers are a dime a dozen theses days--No IC to be found in the junkyard.
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09:23 AM
Scoobysruvenge Member
Posts: 550 From: Richmond Virginia Registered: Apr 2009
Im a big fan of ZZPerformance intercooler and its not nearly as much as the Thrasher setup you showed earlier, the only issue I have with the ZZP intercooler is with the Phenolic intercooler. Ive had ALOT of trouble from mine. First it was the lower intake. It wouldnt seal against it no matter what I did. I finally siliconed the gaskets like crazy and it quit. Just as I got that part figured out, the EGR part of the phenolic burned away and basically was about to leave a burnt hole in the side of the intercooler. If you arent using EGR, this wont be a problem for you. I think I prefer the aluminum core, its only a 10 degree increase in intake temperature so its not costing me any horsepower.
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10:42 AM
Scoobysruvenge Member
Posts: 550 From: Richmond Virginia Registered: Apr 2009
I will running Megasquirt for the fuel injection with no EGR valve. I have seen several custom cars with the intercooler in the plenum and have always appreciated the compactness of the design. For a year or so now I have been thinking about how to bring it all together neatly.
I’ve been reading through some turbo/supercharger specific books for a while now and I must say that the SC has a lot to offer the Fiero platform and its uniquely tight confines.
I posted some pics and ideas in one of my earlier threads about the intercooler being placed above the intake with a heat shield between the intake and a water based IC and using a mustang scoop to make room and get some air on the IC through the deck lid.
I like the SC even better for the lack of need to heavily modify the exhaust, with out all that high temp plumbing the engine compartment should be much cooler and roomier as well.
Yes you have to go up and out some, but as a package I believe it will be a better fit than the turbo and is mostly bolt on accept for the fact I have no manifold. This leaves me wondering first how wide the M90 is in relation to a 60D V6 manifold?
Is the 60D taller in the engine bay than the 90 degree 3.8 ?
I fell that a custom manifold would be an easier undertaking vs. the complexity of exhaust, intake, intercooler, oil and coolant plumbing needed for a proper turbo set up. We have a lathe and mill in the shop old and by no means CC should still do the job with a little time and ingenuity.
Did I mention the SC is very reasonable in the used market and looks to be very robust.
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11:52 AM
Scoobysruvenge Member
Posts: 550 From: Richmond Virginia Registered: Apr 2009
It seems that a 3500 manifold could be modified to accept the M90 supercharger by simply cutting to top half off and welding a flat plate with the GTP 3.8 manifold pattern cut into it and doing away with the throttle body neck all together.
Simulation
Or would you have to do away with the lower intake as well and start from scratch to get the SC low enough in the engine bay.
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02:59 PM
darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
intercooling with the core on a 200 degree motor, is not very efficient, when compared to other situations...
The only advantage the M90 offers anyone, is the fact that it is already on the 3800... It is really a giant restriction, offering little to no advantage over any other form of forced induction.
intercooling with the core on a 200 degree motor, is not very efficient, when compared to other situations...
The only advantage the M90 offers anyone, is the fact that it is already on the 3800... It is really a giant restriction, offering little to no advantage over any other form of forced induction.
Yeah the IC I run on my 3800SC swap is such a waste. It only allows me to run a 3.0 pulley daily in the 106* summer heat with 0 KR. I guess it is more like a large paper weight if anything--Wonder how much I can get for it at the recycle center?
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07:41 PM
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darkhorizon Member
Posts: 12279 From: Flint Michigan Registered: Jan 2006
Did I say there was anything wrong with it? I am just saying it is not IDEAL.
I have installed, designed, manufactured, and tested under blower intercoolers to determine that even a simple air/air will out perform them. Can you make it so you can make some more power? Yes, but dont expect much more....
Oh, and btw, I have been running 3.0 pulleys with 17-18 degrees of timing without an intercooler for years now... air temp has little to nothing to do with the efficiency of the blower.
Did I say there was anything wrong with it? I am just saying it is not IDEAL.
I have installed, designed, manufactured, and tested under blower intercoolers to determine that even a simple air/air will out perform them. Can you make it so you can make some more power? Yes, but dont expect much more....
Oh, and btw, I have been running 3.0 pulleys with 17-18 degrees of timing without an intercooler for years now... air temp has little to nothing to do with the efficiency of the blower.
Of course you have--I mean there are all those Threads out there showing the making, installing and dynoing off your whole line of DH ICs and Performance parts.
I have been running a 2.0 pulley with 21* of timing in 106* since 97--It is so easy to type things without proving it.
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09:49 PM
Dennis LaGrua Member
Posts: 15732 From: Hillsborough, NJ U.S.A. Registered: May 2000
I run a 3.4" pulley on a series V supercharger and I can tell you that these is some degree of KR up and down the RPM scale that still needs to be tuned out or eliminated with an IC. I can't see how the full size IC would fit under the deck lid w/o lowering the engine AND notching the deck lid. A short stack would not even clear the deck lid and the notch would need to be cut right in the middle of the hinge bracket. .
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
[This message has been edited by Dennis LaGrua (edited 01-26-2010).]
I run a 3.4" pulley on a series V supercharger and I can tell you that these is some degree of KR up and down the RPM scale that still needs to be tuned out or eliminated with an IC. I can't see how the full size IC would fit under the deck lid w/o lowering the engine AND notching the deck lid. A short stack would not even clear the deck lid and the notch would need to be cut right in the middle of the hinge bracket. .
The last swap I did for Norsac on the Forum used FieroAddiction lowering 3800 mounts. Even with the lowering mounts the SC did not clear the Fastback DL with a full size IC and after many attempts to get around cutting the DL I had to barely notch it for clearance.
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10:24 PM
nosrac Member
Posts: 3520 From: Euless, TX, US Registered: Jan 2005
The last swap I did for Norsac on the Forum used FieroAddiction lowering 3800 mounts. Even with the lowering mounts the SC did not clear the Fastback DL with a full size IC and after many attempts to get around cutting the DL I had to barely notch it for clearance.
The alternator cleared the DL, as FieroAddiction advertised his mounts would do.
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11:30 PM
AkursedX Member
Posts: 2890 From: Lackawanna NY Registered: Aug 2000
I am looking around fro 3800 SC M90 supercharger to use for mocking up the intake, there are several year models are available for 100$ or less, but before I buy one is there a preferred year for the car I pull it off of.. Is there any difference between Series I, II and III supercharges and if so which year/s is the most desirable???
