Alright, I am getting ready to replace my engine tomorrow. But there is one thing I can't figure out. How am I supposed to get the car up high enough to remove the cradle when I have a 15" jack? I know some people say to use a cherry picker hooked to the trunk latch, but I'm not comfortable with that. I've looked through a ton of topics and I just can't figure it out.

You progressively lift the car up. Most people use long 2x4s spanning the width of the car to hold it up. What most people do first is lower the rear of the car onto something that they can roll out, like a make-shift cradle setup (a good old palette with wheels works well). Remove everything connecting the cradle, all the important lines like coolant and others, and the wiring. Then working right in front of the rear wheel area, you jack it up, put the car on stands, move jack forward (put on something if you have to lift it up), repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, etc, etc, etc, as you move towards the front of the car.. Eventually the car lifts up enough to clear the drivetrain assembly. You'd think that you really have to go very very high but it's not as high as you'd think it is. You can do it with a cheapo small jack, but it will take time. Helps to have a friend spotting you and helping.

If you have an aero body Fiero like a fastback GT or aero SE you might want to remove the front fascia. You can do it with it on there, but it does give a bit of wiggle room. Also if you're really worried if the old engine is trash remove the intake plenum and heads (if you have a V6), or the head and valve cover (L4 duke). Gives a tad bit more room, but you'll have to either jack up more when you put the new engine in or take off parts and then put back on.

Search some of the threads that Back on Holiday has done. He's got some more recent photographs of "shady-tree" Fiero drivetrain removal in an outdoor setting.

[This message has been edited by Fiero84Freak (edited 02-12-2010).]

I droped my cradle on a pallet (cut to size) and jacked the rear up by the courigated steel bumper support. Then put the jack stands just in front of the forward cradle bolt locations. I had to jack it several time to get the rear high enough to clear the upper plenum and trunk tub... I do not think you want to move your jack stands too far forward; you do not want your car to teeter-totter on them...

There was a long thread about all the crazy and sometimes scary ways people elevate the rear of the car to do this. Do a search and I'm sure you'll find it, lots of different methods, pick the one that looks like the most fun!

Also helps if you have the front wheels up on something to raise it a bit. What I have done before is once the rear wheels are off (after you have removed the axle nuts) I raise the front wheels and set them in the back side of the rear wheels. Raise the front some and keeps it from rolling. If you have a GT noise you have to raise it even more to keep it from hitting.
I'd recommend you have a good pair of jack stand to help you work it up.
You can also take some 2x4 and build a frame for the jack to set in to get it up higher to help raise the car higher as you go and not let it roll.
I only do it with a hoist and gantry though.

[This message has been edited by Dodgerunner (edited 02-12-2010).]

Cherry picker with chains to the strut towers. That's how I did it. To me it'a a whole lot more stable than trying to jack and put on stands, and then jack with stuff under the jack.

Here's a thread I started a while back it has a lot of different methods,
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/098160.html

I think I might try to lift it by the trunk crossmember in the front. It definately looks more stable than the latch and is easier than the jack and stand method.

Slinger is coming over tomorrow morning to help, so we'll figure something out.

We use the cherry picker under the cradle method, lifting the car off of the cradle using the strut towers.

The key is to have a cherry picker with swivel casters on all four corners.

After everything is disconnected, the cradle bolts freed up, we lower the car onto the cherry picker legs, remove all four cradle bolts and raise the car up to allow clearance for the drivetrain.

We pull the drivetrain out of the drivers wheelwell because the car does not have to go as high in the air.

We also keep the car fairly level (front - to - back) as the steep nose-down angle on jackstands isn't very stable.

We use a 2X4 to support the car on the jackstands in the rear, just in front of the front mounting points for the cradle.

There really isn't much to gain by pulling the struts off, if you want to go this way, pull the whole knuckle/strut assembly off of the suspension so that you don't have to realign the suspension.

The height of the car (floor to wheelwell bottom) is only about 37 inches using this method.

Hope this helps, feel free to PM or e-mail if you need anything.

Say "Hi" to Slinger for me, he is a great guy.

Joe

jacking off the cradle ?? got the wrong idea..
I had some 12X2 board available ,,after sawing to correct size to fit under jackstands,, nailed/screwed 2 together to give me just a bit extra height,, this was very stable ..MY jack stands made thier own ""imprint"" on the wood
With out a Garage full of equipment it is very time consuming to get the car in the air.. no engine or tranny removal is easy for the average owner ,,do not despair !! many on the forum make a swap or tranny removal seem easy ,,IT IS NOT,, be safe ,,take your time and paint ,repair,clean,modify as you go ..

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 02-13-2010).]

Remove your rear wheels. Support the front cross member on jack stands. Use your floor jack and jack stands to get the rear of the car high enough to get under it. Support the rear of the cradle with the jack. Remove the rear cradle bolts (verticle ones). Lower the rear of the cradle onto jack stands. Support the front of the cradle with the jack. Remove the front (horizontal ones) cradle bolts. Attach your cherry picker to the loop on the engine and take out the slack. This will support the car, the engine and the cradle while you remove the rear jack and stands. Place your dolly under the cradle. Lower the car with the cherry picker until it rests on the dolly. Unhook from the engine loop and attach to the trunk latch loop. Now you can pick up the rear of the car without the weight of the engine on that little loop. I know it doesn't look like much but the trunk loop can support the engine and all - but you don't have to use it like that.

If you position the cherry picker from the side, the legs can straddle the dolly.

Jonathan

[This message has been edited by Boostdreamer (edited 02-13-2010).]

I ended up placing the front wheels on ramps then used a cherry picker. If you pull away the trunk carper in each corner behind the carper are wide holes that you can put hooks on and then put that on the cherry picker and just lift straight up.

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My dolly doesn't clear the legs of my cherry picker. Otherwise I would use the trunk crossmember.

My help was sick today so I am pushing this back to next week. I'll work on getting the cradle bolts loose over the next few days and try again next Saturday. I'll figure something out by then.

As long as you are a few days away from the work, you should go ahead and start hitting the bolts with PB Blaster. The front cradle bolts can fuse to the metal sleeve inside the bushing. If this happens (happened to one of mine) you'll have to cut the bolt. A sawsall would probably work best but I used a 4-1/2" grinder. Cradle bolts are available from The Fiero Store.

Jonathan

quote Originally posted by nutherproject68: My dolly doesn't clear the legs of my cherry picker. Otherwise I would use the trunk crossmember. My help was sick today so I am pushing this back to next week. I'll work on getting the cradle bolts loose over the next few days and try again next Saturday. I'll figure something out by then.

In the meantime.... Work on making a dolly that is as short as you can make it. The shorter it is, the less you need to raise the rear of the car in the air. My casters are only about 2 inches.

Taking the engine out from the side helps alot as it gives you 6-8 extra inches that you dont need to raise the car. Also you can remove the plentum and throttle body on the V6 which gives you a couple more inches.

As stated before, I removed the whole strut assembly and arms together to keep the alignment correct. Just unbolt everything from the cradle and tap on the axels to pop them out. They can stick sometimes but they will come out. Do this after you have jacked up the car, removed the wheels and set it back down on the dolly.

Its not recommended but I do use the trunk latch but as I lift the body up off the drivetrain, I keep raising the jackstands with a 4x4 across them, getting a couple of inches each time but I never get under the car like this until it is blocked up correctly and I push on the car to make sure it is stable. Even when blocked, I still use the cherry picker hooked to the trunk latch with a little pressure when I can just as another safety measure. You can never be too safe.

Also make sure that the front wheels are scotched well so it can not roll anywhere. Setting them into the inside of the rear wheels is a good idea.

Good luck and Be Safe.

Steve

I drove mine into the garage, the front end onto ramps, I jack up the car as far as I can one jack on each side, me and a buddy jacking evenly. then put it on jack stands. then put blocks under the jacks to raise them higher and jack again to full extension, put blocks under the jackstands. I just keep doing this until it is high enough. and I rest the cradle on a pallet with caster bolted on.

[This message has been edited by Mr.Goodwrench (edited 02-13-2010).]

I've used the trunk latch hoop at least 5 or six times fitting my 4.9 and taking out again -- it seems stable enough, but I don't get under it or leave it flyin' any longer than I have too......

the last 3 i did, I used the trunk latch. have to think about this, if you have the cradle unhooked, almost half the car weight is no longer on it. or at least a majority of the wieght is gone. I did the first one with a 4x6 across the body in front of the cradle and 2 floor jacks to raise the car. worked fine. even used that method on a 1982 Porsche 911 SC. the last 2 fieros I was confident enough to not worry and used the latch to lift the body. I have a 4500 ford diesel front end loader so i used it to pick the body up and set it back down on the cradle. it was quite easy with a spotter checking for snags or the ( Oh crap i forgot that ground wire ) . I wish you good luck. just remember you are and will be further ahead when frustrated to walk away for 10 mins and come back to it vs getting upset and breaking, scratching, or cutting something that will cost you in the end.

Are the legs and arm on your cherry picker adjustable? Mine are. I use a movers furniture dolly like this one from Harbor Freight (mine is not from there but same design)

I connect to the holes in the front trunk walls as shown in the firdt picture of the link above
Assuming you already have everthing disconnected from the engine and tranny. I remove the nuts from the front cradle bolts.
Remove the rear wheels and lower the cradle down to the dolly. Slowly remove the rear cradlebolts checking to make sure that the cradle settles well on the dolly. You may need to use a block or 2 but I never have.
Raise the body just a little I have always been lucky and the front bolts tap right out. If it feels like it is binding raise or lower til it wiggles then tap out.
once all four are out jack the body up in small increments checking for anything getting hung up or something missed when disconnecting. I usually place jack stands just in front of the front cradle bolts raising them as I raise the body (just for added safety).
If the legs and arm on the cherry picker are adjustable you may need to make them shorter but don't get carried away It you get the legs shorter than the arm it may try to flip on you. Sometimes helpful to have a helper standing on the back of the legs for ballast (heavier the better ). Remember as you raise the car the cherry picker legs will go further under the car. You want the legs to be as long as they can without stopping the dolly from moving at the highest point. As the body is raised I actually let the dolly (cradle and all) roll forward just a few inches so the legs can get further under the car then like others said roll the dolly out through the wheel well. You may have to wiggle a little to get around the picker legs but the dolly should move pretty easy in any direction.
If the cherry picker you have is not adjustable you may not be able to use this method. It's more work but you should be able to connect at the rear bumper brace if you can't use the trunk

I have given up on working on this myself. KurtAKX is going to get it finished up for me. I just have to get it over to his place. I'm going to call around tomorrow and find a tow dolly to rent. I will not try U-haul. That would be a huge waste of time. Anyway, I am sick of driving a minivan. I want my car back really bad. It's been almost six weeks and I am really starting to miss it. Thanks for all the advice though. If it was warmer I would try to do it myself but it just takes too long for me to do anything in the cold.

Found this post looking for something else, but since I'm here...

Tall jackstands FTW.



1) Securely fasten chains rear of Fiero chassis (some prefer to remove rear bumper and hook chains in there, use strut towers, etc)
2) Lift car off the ground w/ cherry picker.
3) Remove wheels, hang calipers out of the way, pull rear brake rotors
4) Roll a 24x18 furniture dolly with strategically three screwed down 2x4s under the rear cradle.
5) Lower car down until rear subframe is resting on the dolly; pull cradle bolts.
6) Raise car with cherry picker until there's enough room to roll dolly/cradle out the wheelwell.
7) Put car on jackstands, roll the cherry picker out of the way
8) Roll the cradle and dolly out now that the cherry picker legs aren't in the way anymore.

quote Originally posted by KurtAKX:

Hey! That car looks familiar.

Are we having fun yet?


Impromptu review of Rodney Dickman's aluminum cradle bushings:

Well engineered, precise, and a real pain in the dick to get lined up to put the bolts through.
The ones in the pic are easy, but the fronts (which I did first) take a lot of patience and shoving and jacking up and tapping the cradle, and lifting the car and grunting, and shoving and tapping and prying.

[This message has been edited by KurtAKX (edited 02-20-2010).]

Many good ideas I found out quickly to get front wheels up some to keep my nose from going crunch crunch! I haven't had to go all the way engine out up yet. But 4.9 time is comeing soon possible ASG 5.0 version! Better buy me some ramps.

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Say no to socialism communism marksism maoism and say yes to Freedom! God Bless America!
1986 black gt fast back 4 spd recently rescued. 1987 gt fastback 5 speed! Hopefully swapped before end of summer.

quote Originally posted by ozzy83: Many good ideas I found out quickly to get front wheels up some to keep my nose from going crunch crunch! I haven't had to go all the way engine out up yet. But 4.9 time is comeing soon possible ASG 5.0 version! Better buy me some ramps.

yeah, I forgot about to put that in the steps, but if you look in my pics I put a couple of 2x4s under the front wheels. Its less of a problem with the far superior (bumperpad) models.

I use 2 chain falls, one on each side to lift the car. I hook the chain fall hook in to the cars frame rail in the back corner of the engine compartment. (their is a small hole in the bottom of the frame rail). I use a cherry picker to lift/lower the driveline/cradle on to the legs of the cherrypicker. Roll it out from under on the cherry picker legs. I put it all back the same way. The rear of the car can move around ( on the chains ) to help get the frount cradle bolts in. Using 2 chain falls lets you tip the car to line up the boltholes with the cradle if the engine/cradle is not level. After the engine is under the engine compartment you can lower the car some to get the nose up off the floor. Than the car will move front to back alittle with little effort. I put my cradle/engine( chevy V8/4t60 ) under the car, and up with the 4 cradle bolts in, in 45 minets buy my self. I was never comfey with having the car that high on jack stands. In my shop I have one more place to hang a 3rd chain fall, in the front, over the sway bar, so I can lift the hole car off the ground ( with out the driveline in it) so we can put it on the trailer with out the rear cradle.

I've lifted three different Fiero's using a over head hoist attached to the trunk latch and have had no problems. I don't leave it hanging by it though. Jackstands go under it ASAP.

I found the trunk latch will hold the body without the engine/cradle but it will bent it outward. You notice it when you can't get the lid to align. I did it only once and switched to a pair of plates that go under the strut towers and then use a chain between them with a lift. Once up, I will put jack stands just forward of the front cradle bushings on the chassis but I leave the lift in place (safety).

I then roll the cradle/engine out on furniture dollys.

[This message has been edited by TK (edited 02-21-2010).]