Ok. So a little while ago, I searched for hours for the answer to this question and found a page here in the forums that happened to mention which other GM cars have the same duke that goes in the fiero, meaning a direct fitting replacement. The wrecking yards around here don't have fieros. In fact, I haven't even seen any fieros on the street around here.
Anyway, it took me hours to find this little bit of information. Someone threw away the piece of paper that I wrote the cars down on, I live with people who like to throw away important stuff(to me) like this all the time(they never throw away my junk mail, or anything like that). I have already spent over an hour trying to find it again. Seems there are two or three different VINs for the duke 2.5. One was an R and one was a U (I think). Only one will fit. Seems like the cars were the 6000, ciera and a few others, something like that.
So, the question: can someone tell me which cars have a direct fitting iron duke 2.5L 4 cyl and the VIN code? Also, which number on the vehicle VIN refers to the engine would be nice (I think it was the 8th, but not sure)
[This message has been edited by guitarjerry (edited 04-21-2010).]
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06:35 PM
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guitarjerry Member
Posts: 42 From: utah county, UT Registered: Feb 2010
86 Fiero Olds Ciera, Buick Century, Chevy Celebrity, Pontiac 6000.
*1985 and 1986 engines will interchange and will retrofit to 84. The differences are limited to minor bracketry, the distributor (use your original) and 85+ engines have roller lifters. Functionally and physically interchangeable.
Other 85-86 VIN U engines such as those found in Grand Am/ Somerset will NOT work. S10 engines will not work because they will lack side mount water pump provision and/or have the starter on the wrong side.
87 Fiero Ciera, Century, Celebrity, 6000
(87 is a unique year for the 2.5, only year for DIS but no balance shafts)
88 Fiero Ciera, Century, Celebrity, 6000
I believe 1988-1990 engines from these cars will interchange
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06:53 PM
Patrick Member
Posts: 38374 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
(87 is a unique year for the 2.5, only year for DIS but no balance shafts)
88 Fiero Ciera, Century, Celebrity, 6000
I believe 1988-1990 engines from these cars will interchange
Kurt, you seem knowledgeable on these dukes. I have an '87 here (my first Fiero that I bought 14 years ago that's been off the road for several years) and it's duke is pretty tired. Am I actually limited to only those models/years you've listed for '87, or would the wiring etc be the same to be able to use what you've listed for the '88 Fiero (including dukes from suitable 1990 models)?
Another related question... I have an '84 Fiero parts car. It's engine may be okay. If I was to use that engine in the '87, is it just a matter of swapping over the engine harness and ECM for the '84 duke to work in the '87, or is it a whole lot more involved than that?
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07:48 PM
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
it looks like in your listing that its primarily the GM A-body cars. there are more than that. the lumina, beretta, corsica, grand am... those are the ones i can think of off the top of my head. but htere are more FWD cars that had a dookie.
it looks like in your listing that its primarily the GM A-body cars. there are more than that. the lumina, beretta, corsica, grand am... those are the ones i can think of off the top of my head. but htere are more FWD cars that had a dookie.
The Beretta, Lumina, and Corsica were not offered with 2.5s
See cave... DIS replacement The list has the same "wall" 86 down / 87 up.
Only VIN R will work.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
so, will the vin E blocks from postal vehicles and vans with the left hand starter not work?
The blocks are not even better. It was just a dumb myth started by someone who never had them side by side. Somebody bought one several months ago and was disappointed to find its no better.
Besides the correct side starter, you need to make sure its got the mounting pad on the side of the block for the Fiero and FWD style water pump housing. Without that, you're hosed since there's no room to mount the front-style water pump used by the S10.
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11:06 PM
KurtAKX Member
Posts: 4008 From: West Bloomfield, MI Registered: Feb 2002
it looks like in your listing that its primarily the GM A-body cars. there are more than that. the lumina, beretta, corsica, grand am... those are the ones i can think of off the top of my head. but htere are more FWD cars that had a dookie.
The Beretta/Corsica were not offered with the 2.5, they all got the 2.0/2.2.
The Lumina did get the 2.5 in limited numbers, but I believe they all used the timing chain style setup as opposed to timing gears, and they used a different ECM. Does any of that make a difference? Probably not, but I can't say from firsthand experience that I know it'll work, like I can of the ones I have listed.
The Grand Am did get a 2.5 until 1991 or so, but its a VIN U engine, which is shorter, has a different oil filter mounting pad, lacks the proper the bolt holes for a Fiero engine mount bracket, and has a completely different accessory drive.
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11:11 PM
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KurtAKX Member
Posts: 4008 From: West Bloomfield, MI Registered: Feb 2002
Kurt, you seem knowledgeable on these dukes. I have an '87 here (my first Fiero that I bought 14 years ago that's been off the road for several years) and it's duke is pretty tired. Am I actually limited to only those models/years you've listed for '87, or would the wiring etc be the same to be able to use what you've listed for the '88 Fiero (including dukes from suitable 1990 models)?
Another related question... I have an '84 Fiero parts car. It's engine may be okay. If I was to use that engine in the '87, is it just a matter of swapping over the engine harness and ECM for the '84 duke to work in the '87, or is it a whole lot more involved than that?
The 87 engine is a better one than the later ones. You'd be shooting yourself in the foot to switch to the later engine, its much harder to get oil filters for the 88+, they're more difficult to change, and they have a balance shaft system that robs power and often fails dramatically, taking the rest of the engine with it (oil pump is integral to balancer assy)
The 84 engine is the same, but different. You could totally swap back to an 84 engine, but it's a lot more involved than just the ECM and harness. The early ECM doesn't control the radiator fan, so you'd have to retrofit something to control that. Also, the fuel lines come up differently, so you'd need to get early style fuel lines from a donor. The throttle cable is different too. The early engine has some different heater hose routing versus later cars too. The accessory drive is different too, 87-88 run a serpentine system. You can't use the serpentine setup from the later engines because the block is completely different where the tensioner mounts.
After you went to all the trouble of retrofitting all that stuff, you'd have an engine that didn't make as much power as the 87, didn't run as well (84-86 ECMs don't have an intake air temp sensor AT ALL) and it would be saddled with a far less reliable V belt accessory drive (not that all V-belt drives are bad, just the 2.5 Fiero one)
You'd be a lot better off in the long run to either A) rebuild your existing 87 engine OR B) find another 87 engine to put in the car.
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11:20 PM
paulmckibben Member
Posts: 332 From: Atlanta, GA, USA Registered: Nov 2001
Try www.car-part.com input your zip code and the car specifics then search by distance. As mentioned, Ciera's, Celebrity's, Centurys, 6000's and of course the Fiero come up in the seach. Looks like ~$250.
Buyer beware though, best if yiu can hear one run before buying.
Mark
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11:53 PM
Apr 22nd, 2010
americasfuture2k Member
Posts: 7131 From: Edmond, Oklahoma Registered: Jan 2006
well I have an '86 with roller lifters. Just got the car a few months ago(first Fiero) don't know how many miles on the engine but its old enough to be blowing oil into the air cleaner and stuff. I tested compression at 110-110-100-120 (1-2-3-4) which is to spec but it just failed emissions. I don't know if new plugs and wires will make it pass, but I'm thinking that money could go to a used duke VIN R which will go in while I rebuild the '86 roller.
So, I'm thinking stronger 87-88 cranks and rods in it, but I don't want to mess with converting stuff to newer DIS setup. I prefer distributors. I will balance the crank and stuff, definitely port match, maybe bowl port the heads and then make the throttle body flow better--someone here posted a link to a page about that--and maybe compression somewhere in the 9s or 10s at my altitude we can use 85 or 87 octane in just about any car even newer ones with no problems(other than lack of detergents)
This setup should be good for 110-120 hp without blowing it up and I should still be close to 40 mpg
I'm kinda hoping someone near my area has a used duke lying around or is doing a v6 swap and is willing to part with the duke for $50 or even free. I wonder if I should post it in the WTB section.
[This message has been edited by guitarjerry (edited 04-22-2010).]
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12:56 PM
Apr 23rd, 2010
Patrick Member
Posts: 38374 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
