I have contacted LPE and was told this will work for my application.

If I am not running an EBTCM on my Northstar and have looped the two circuit together at the PCM "sujested by WILL". Basicly run the Torque Delivered "PCM out" back into the Torque request "PCM input". I may get a torque reduction. This would be cause by a unexpected return percentage.

Delivered Torque Signal Circuit & Requested Torque Signal Circuit
The EBTCM and the PCM simultaneously controlled the traction control. The PCM sends a Delivered Torque message via a pulse width modulated (PWM) signal to the EBTCM confirming the delivered torque level for proper TCS operation. The EBTCM supplies the pull up voltage.

Requested Torque Signal Circuit INPUT TO PCM
The Requested Torque Signal parameter are 85-95% and 121-134 DC Hz at 100%
Desired Torque will normally be a 90 percent duty cycle signal to the PCM. When the EBTCM decides to request reduced engine power, it decreases the duty cycle of the Desired Torque signal by the amount of torque reduction required (90 percent duty cycle means no torque reduction, 10 percent duty cycle means 100 percent torque reduction).




The PCM contains chips called Output Driver Modules that provide 7 switchable ground outputs for operating solenoids, relays, telltales, and other devices. Each of these ground outputs has an internal fault line that feeds back to the PCM's microprocessor. When the output is OFF, the output driver should receive the 12 volts fed to the solenoid, relay, etc. When the output is ON, it should receive 0 volt since it is grounding the output. If it receives 0 volt when the output is OFF or 12 volts when the output is ON, it sets the fault line low. DTC P1644 is used to monitor the fault line of the delivered torque output to the EBTCM. The EBTCM sends ignition voltage on CKT 464 to the PCM, the PCM will then rapidly pulse CKT 464 to ground creating a Pulse Width Modulated signal that indicates the percentage of torque output the engine is producing. The EBTCM uses this PWM signal for traction control.
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Cadillac Tech
ASE MASTER TECH since 1988

86 Northstar Fiero
85 RX7 former SCCA car
56 TR3 small mouth 6.0L
A.J. Whiteley

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 03-07-2007).]

I am looking at a cluster swap. I would like some opinions on the one I choose. I will probably use the STS shifter also.

next two are my vote


AND THE SHIFTER


------------------
Cadillac Tech
ASE MASTER TECH since 1988

86 Northstar Fiero
85 RX7 former SCCA car
56 TR3 small mouth 6.0L
A.J. Whiteley

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 03-13-2007).]

quote Originally posted by AJxtcman: The gauges have 54 Volt powered Vacuum Fluorescent needles.

I have seen that needle style in person. it is awesome. Make it work ..

Loyde

quote Originally posted by Will: In the installations I know of, the delivered torque output from the PCM has been looped back to the desired torque input. The problem with auto trans Northstar installs so far has been that they're SLOW... mostly off the line. I've heard of cars running low 14's to high 13's. Even with the automatic, the cars should be able to hit low 13's. I hit high 12's with a manual transmission, but I was running LD8 program with an L37, so I was about 20 wHP down from where I should have been. It has been conjectured that these cars are running in "low traction" mode and starting in 2nd gear, but I've not run across information that will either confirm or deny this.

So I took this advaice and looped the circuit back. IT RAN ON 4 CYLINDERS UNTIL I CUT THE WIRE. I will build a PWM box or buy the one from LPE. I hooked up a fuel pressure guage, checked all the injectors for power, beat my head on the car, and then realized the only thing I did was use this advice.

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Cadillac Tech
ASE MASTER TECH since 1988

86 Northstar Fiero
85 RX7 former SCCA car
56 TR3 small mouth 6.0L
A.J. Whiteley

The EBCM requests the PCM to reduce the amount of torque to the drive wheels via the requested torque signal circuit.
The EBCM requests reduced torque using PWM signal. This signal, referred to as the Desired Torque signal.
The Desired Torque signal to the PCM is normally a 90 percent duty cycle.
The PCM supplies a pull up voltage of 5 volts that the EBCM switches to ground to create the signal.
Measuring the DC duty cycle between the requested torque signal circuit and a good ground. Results should be 5-95%
Measuring the DC Hz between the requested torque signal circuit and a good ground. The results should be 121-134 Hz




This circuit can switch a fairly high amount of current, an IRFZ34N MOSFET can handle over 35 Amps if connected to a proper heat sink. Higher power FETs, such as the IRFZ48N or IRF1010Z can be substituted if even larger currents are required. Always use thermally conductive grease between the FET and the heat sink, and remember that the heat sink is electrically live.

The low side version is on with a high pin 7 output voltage and the high side version is on with a low output.

The inductor on the gate side of the power MOSFET transistor can be a ferrite bead or a few turns of wire wrapped around a 10 ohm, 1/4W resistor. The purpose of this part is to prevent RF oscillations from occurring in the MOSFET circuitry.

Note: if the circuit does not completely turn off and on when the 10K potentiometer is fully left and right, replace both of the 3.9K resistors with 3.3K resistors

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Cadillac Tech
ASE MASTER TECH since 1988

86 Northstar Fiero
85 RX7 former SCCA car
56 TR3 small mouth 6.0L
A.J. Whiteley

AJ, your providing the kind of tech info people need to make the Caddy system work outside of a Caddy, Keep up the good work.

Joe

source
http://www.solorb.com/elect/pwm/
http://www.solorb.com/elect/
parts
http://www.jameco.com/
http://www.digikey.com/
http://www.techniks.com/
I need to find some of my old electronic books from training. We do not have the same type of training now a days. 10 years ago we had theory.

Why would the desired ->requested connection not work?

What are the specs on the requested duty cycle and frequency?

2nd, use a 555 timer. A lot less parts, more rugged. FETs are static sensitive. Also you will need some heavy duty input voltage filtering (even though it is "12V"). The automotive environment isn't a nice one.

quote Originally posted by AJxtcman: So I took this advaice and looped the circuit back. IT RAN ON 4 CYLINDERS UNTIL I CUT THE WIRE. I will build a PWM box or buy the one from LPE. I hooked up a fuel pressure guage, checked all the injectors for power, beat my head on the car, and then realized the only thing I did was use this advice.

Advice on an internet forum has the potential to be worth exactly what you pay for it.
Jon Lagler's tried the torque signal loop and it worked for him. I don't know what the differences between your systems might be.
I haven't tried it because my car's running a stick and I have a different program.

quote Originally posted by Will: Advice on an internet forum has the potential to be worth exactly what you pay for it. Jon Lagler's tried the torque signal loop and it worked for him. I don't know what the differences between your systems might be. I haven't tried it because my car's running a stick and I have a different program.

It can not work. I will probably buy the LPE box. I will make another phone call to a GM engineer and see how far that goes. he is the one that sent me to LPE.

Will this is why it will not work

------------------------Ignition ON, engine OFF.
Scan Tool Parameter------------Data List---------------Units Displayed---------Typical Data Value
Traction Control Status---------Engine Data 2--------Active/Inactive-----------Inactive
Torque Delivered Signal---------Engine Data 2---------------%-----------------------10
Torque Request Signal--------- Engine Data 2---------------%-----------------------90

At idle you would only have 10% out from the PCM and you need 90% in.

------------------
Cadillac Tech
ASE MASTER TECH since 1988

86 Northstar Fiero
85 RX7 former SCCA car
56 TR3 small mouth 6.0L
A.J. Whiteley

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 03-12-2007).]

quote Originally posted by AJxtcman: At idle you would only have 10% out from the PCM and you need 90% in.

So invert the signal.

One transistor can do that.

As the RPM's raise so does the signal and that would decease torque. You need a fixed value at 90-95%

I spent the money and got the cluster. Wow that is a big cost for me on this project. $45. Now I will need to talk to my brother to have a fiberglass dash fabbed up. My dad owned a large fiberglass shop and has retired. My brother still works at the company. Favors

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Cadillac Tech
ASE MASTER TECH since 1988

86 Northstar Fiero
85 RX7 former SCCA car
56 TR3 small mouth 6.0L
A.J. Whiteley

great work, hope to see that dash in a fiero sometime in the not too distant future. Drew

If it's 100% DC, does it set a code?

Ryan
You see the pull up resistor. It is is place for a reason. 100% would mean an open circuit. Yes it set a code on test drives. It does not in park. It need to see 95% dwell. I will hook up the box this weekend.

------------------
Cadillac Tech
ASE MASTER TECH since 1988

86 Northstar Fiero
85 RX7 former SCCA car
56 TR3 small mouth 6.0L
A.J. Whiteley

quote Originally posted by AJxtcman: Will this is why it will not work ------------------------Ignition ON, engine OFF. Scan Tool Parameter------------Data List---------------Units Displayed---------Typical Data Value Traction Control Status---------Engine Data 2--------Active/Inactive-----------Inactive Torque Delivered Signal---------Engine Data 2---------------%-----------------------10 Torque Request Signal--------- Engine Data 2---------------%-----------------------90 At idle you would only have 10% out from the PCM and you need 90% in.

Is ignition ON, engine OFF the same as idle?

pull up resistor explanation
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------------------
Cadillac Tech
ASE MASTER TECH since 1988

86 Northstar Fiero
85 RX7 former SCCA car
56 TR3 small mouth 6.0L
A.J. Whiteley

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 03-14-2007).]

Did you ever talk to the caddy shop guy about those parts? I want to get the ball rolling on my swap. Let me know, Drew

I can get all the accessory parts from him. He is checking on a harness that I can use.

let me know how much he wants. I am very interested. Thanks, Drew

I vote for Solstice seats, even though they're not on your list

What are the red seats from? Over the top, but look hot nonetheless.

Andrew

00 01 02 03 04 HONDA S2000 FRONT SEATS RED
http://stores.ebay.com/LKQo...fsubZ8QQftidZ2QQtZkm

home page on Ebay
http://stores.ebay.com/LKQo...ZQ2d33QQftidZ2QQtZkm

I got my IPC yesterday and powered it up. I have an Air bag message that I will need to get rid of. I will try different methods to do this. Fist I will reprogram the IPC. On some modules if it is a fresh program and never sees a module it will not know it is on the car. Once it sees the module it will always set a code if is not present. Next If that does not work and I do not think it will for a SRS condition I will attemp to turn it off in the IPC. I don't think it will work either. next is to send out a State Of Health code. I can set up a dumby module or I have contacted DEI to get a module that will duplicate several SOH messages. This would be great, but I do not know if it can be done yet.
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[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 03-21-2007).]

bump

quote Originally posted by AJxtcman: I had a 2000+ trans and decided not to install a range switch on the outside of the trans, but to use the Internal Mode Switch "IMS". I just had to look at the schematic and connect the wires to the 20 way connector and install a starter relay.

My Trans system did not work. I was short one wire. I dropped the lower valve body and swapped the TFP sensor with an 99 and prior. It did not fit with out some modifications to the IMS, The IMS was in the way so I ground some off the top and bent the TFP at the connector area. I fed the wire up the conduit and left some extra in the pan. I will have to drop the powertrain and pull the side cover to feed the wire though the pass though connector. I need the to pull it and finish the trunk any way.

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Cadillac Tech
ASE MASTER TECH since 1988

86 Northstar Fiero
85 RX7 former SCCA car
56 TR3 small mouth 6.0L
A.J. Whiteley

I am having Mr Mike do up some vary nice seat covers for me. Just wait until you see what I am having him do for me. $$$. I am get some extra materials to do the doors and firewall cover. Mike said he has not had a request for seats like this before and thinks that it will be great. I hope to have the inteirio done with in two weeks. The inside of this car is bare it was gutted and switched to AC and power doors. I had to switch over the door internals and the glass.

quote Originally posted by AJxtcman: http://www.ansaautomotive.c...0sport%20exhaust.WMV Exhaust

Ok, my burning question, what does that have to do with a Northstar powered Fiero???...

Joe

Flowmasters sound like flowmasters on most cars. Corsa exhaust sound similar to each others on most V8. Example Vette, Camaros, CTS-V's, Devilles, Escalades all sound about the same. When one pulls in the shop you can tell if it a flowmaster, Corsa, Borla. I have had five Ansa Systems that sound about the same. Except my RX7'S. The Northstar is a 32V 4.6L 280 CID. I hope to acheve a sound similar to the 360 or 355.
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348 TB-TS 89- up Complete muffler - 4 stainless tips FE4320

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355 Complete muffler - 4 stainless tips ( 6-speed manual only ) ( Not for F1 gearbox models) FE4620

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360 Modena Complete muffler - 4 stainless tips FE4720

[This message has been edited by AJxtcman (edited 03-28-2007).]

I got some software to set my odometer to the same milage on the one in the car.

AJ..I love your project and would love to know how you get access to all this stuff, but I don't think you'll achieve the exaust note you're looking for. I've watched several long debates on the Kitcar forums about how to acheive the Ferrari sound. The consensus is that the Ferrari sound is generated by the engine and the specific firing order and layout they use. You might get close, but you'll never achieve it with an American engine. Not even with a ferrari exaust.

Keep up the good work...I'm eager to see how you get the gauges to work...

Bob