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3.6l swap by 3.6lvvt6spdgt
Started on: 07-06-2007 04:30 AM
Replies: 122
Last post by: Raydar on 08-10-2010 11:56 PM
3.6lvvt6spdgt
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Report this Post07-06-2007 04:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post
i am beginning on my engine swap i think i will be the first to do this swap so things are going to be interesting
my only concern is the flywheel im planing on using the 2.8l nutral flywheel and i belive the bolt pattern is the same.
the 3.6 is ballenced internaly although some custom machining may be in order.
i have a ecu lined up and pre programed.
im using the 5spd tranny that will bolt up to the engine i got, not the caddy but same specs.
im not sure about engine mounts yet but agin fabracation is always an option.
stock halfshafts will be used untill i break them lol.
well i will keep you all posted.
i will post pics as soon as i figure out how.
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Hudini
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Report this Post07-06-2007 08:03 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
Cool, love new swaps and pictures. Welcome to the forum.

Many folks use photobucket or imageshack to host their pictures. You copy the link for your picture from those sites and paste it into your post here. I use photobucket. Heres how to do it. Sign up for a free account. On your assigned photobucket page you will see a spot for uploading picture files in the top right area. Click "Browse" and find the picture to upload from your PC. After selecting the file then click "Upload" and the file is copied to photobucket. Now at the bottom of each picture you will see several links. The very bottom option "IMG Code" is the one to copy into your posts here.
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Report this Post07-06-2007 08:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonDirect Link to This Post
It might be more helpful to others in the long run if you post pictures using the forums pip program, otherwise if something happens to your photo bucket account or link the pictures can no longer be accessed for future reference, as you will see from time to time when doing searches on previous projects that show up with missing pictures. PIP can be found at the bottom of the page. You can usually resize any over sized pictures you already have with the microsoft paint program and the stretch option.
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Report this Post07-06-2007 08:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonDirect Link to This Post

Joseph Upson

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I doubt you'll break any axles, and a stock neutral flywheel shouldn't require any machining for use on this engine.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 07-06-2007).]

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darkhorizon
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Report this Post07-06-2007 03:13 PM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
doing the physical swap work is the easy part. Making that vvt motor run is the hard part. you have to emulate having most of the donar car there, or custom design a fuel managment/vvt management system from radio shack.
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3.6lvvt6spdgt
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Report this Post07-06-2007 10:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post
thanks guys
as far as the ecu goes i have found a company that is already making the ecu for me it changes a little though from stock
my engine will not be using drive by wire and the new vvt controler is perfect and if i turbo i should get 600hp of 15lbs of boost
and if i put lots of money into it ill be looking at 1200hp but i want some reliabilaty so my taget hp is 450 to 700

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 07-06-2007).]

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Report this Post07-07-2007 10:30 AM Click Here to See the Profile for DarrelkClick Here to visit Darrelk's HomePageSend a Private Message to DarrelkDirect Link to This Post
I hope you do well with this swap as I see it as the next "trend" in Fiero swaps. I know it can be a hassle but if you can update this thread now and then it would be great.
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Report this Post07-07-2007 10:57 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonDirect Link to This Post
When are you going to post some close up picks to give everyone an idea of what they would be working with? It's not real until we see it.
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After a quick search I found a few VVT controllers already in production to address some of the twin cam VVT imports: Nissan, Honda and Toyota. If that fails what a lot of people are not realizing is that the cams can always be degreed and permanently locked into a specific cam degree position to function the same as the 3.4 DOHC motor does and an external or internal 7x crank sensor can be used to operate the engine with the already hacked OBD II PCM/ECM of choice.

I doubt you'll be able to get away with 15psi boost on that static 10.2:1 compression though, at least probably not on pump gas although anything is possible, you have oil squirters an optimized combustion chamber already designed to run off 87 octane gas per GM specs and a mostly aluminum structure all favoring anti knock. Maybe an intercooler, water/m injection and premium gas will make it possible.
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Report this Post07-07-2007 11:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for darkhorizonSend a Private Message to darkhorizonDirect Link to This Post
I would start with trying to get 300-330 whp out of it, then go from there. I have a small feeling that the bottom end wont be able to handle much along the line of cylinder pressure. Even if it can fairly reliably, I would expect even small amounts of knock would put the motor into an early grave.
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Report this Post07-07-2007 11:59 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by darkhorizon:

I would start with trying to get 300-330 whp out of it, then go from there. I have a small feeling that the bottom end wont be able to handle much along the line of cylinder pressure. Even if it can fairly reliably, I would expect even small amounts of knock would put the motor into an early grave.


That would be my concern along with the potential time-sert buisness that the NorthStar has to deal with eventually. The 3.6L has steel main caps but I'm not sure if bolts go through the block into the sides of them for added durability. GM is not scared to spin it to 7K so that must mean the rotating assembly is pretty durable.

The Saturn Outlook and GMC Acadia have the highest rated version at 275 hp, the rest are 255 or less, not sure what the difference is. The turbo could bring your torque up to a respectable level relative to the hp output from 258 lb/ft.

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sYkboy
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Report this Post07-08-2007 01:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sYkboySend a Private Message to sYkboyDirect Link to This Post
Man I wanted to do this one. DO IT WELL!!!!

Maybe I will in a year or two.....
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Report this Post07-08-2007 07:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post
the pepole that are doing the ecu have already got 300hp with headers and 485hp with turbo and they have been running them REALY HARD
also gm is running the engine at 1200 hp on the cobalt drag car with twin turbos and almost stock block they made the cid smaller to comply with regulations.
if u watch HOW ITS MADE the cable tv show the episode on engines shows the internals and let me tell u it looks darn bullet proof
,sniped forge connecting rods, forged crank, forged aluminum pistons, iron cylender walls and a lower end like ive never seen.
if i go for turbo i will get lower compression forged steel pistons and stronger head studs that should be all thats needed changed internaly to run 30psi. ak 1000hp.
the engine was origanly ment to make 300hp they detuned it for prodution for fear that it would out sell the V8s
and as far as tq goes the VVT gives you masive amounts on the lower end if you read the specs the tq is 250ftlbs at 2300rpm so your getting a good take off and they brag about the 90to80 thats 90% of power through 80% of the power band oh yeah its one bad SOB

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 07-08-2007).]

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Report this Post07-08-2007 09:15 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt:

the pepole that are doing the ecu have already got 300hp with headers and 485hp with turbo and they have been running them REALY HARD
also gm is running the engine at 1200 hp on the cobalt drag car with twin turbos and almost stock block they made the cid smaller to comply with regulations.
if u watch HOW ITS MADE the cable tv show the episode on engines shows the internals and let me tell u it looks darn bullet proof
,sniped forge connecting rods, forged crank, forged aluminum pistons, iron cylender walls and a lower end like ive never seen.
if i go for turbo i will get lower compression forged steel pistons and stronger head studs that should be all thats needed changed internaly to run 30psi. ak 1000hp.
the engine was origanly ment to make 300hp they detuned it for prodution for fear that it would out sell the V8s
and as far as tq goes the VVT gives you masive amounts on the lower end if you read the specs the tq is 250ftlbs at 2300rpm so your getting a good take off and they brag about the 90to80 thats 90% of power through 80% of the power band oh yeah its one bad SOB



I believe I saw that episode though I turned to it after it started and saw a late model DOHC motor that looked familiar being built. I know the crank and rods are forged, and GM stated the pistons are forged aluminum on the powertrain site but Mahle who likely manufactured them since they make the pistons for the 3900 and 3500 said they don't manufacture a forged piston for GM, and AJxtcman on the forum says that the stock pistons are not forged, suggesting that GM overstated. The document hasn't changed and if the 2008 intro reads the same then perhaps we can take GM's word for it.

The stock piston looks the same between the 3.6 and 3.9 and appear to be a better design than the pistons used in the earlier fwd engines. If they turn out to be forged as well I don't see a reason to tamper with the internals unless you intend to subject it to all out drag racing where it would see repeated high output abuse, otherwise street use only shouldn't be a problem because you will not likely have the traction that the drag car will have and unless you build your tranny like their's it may not live long enough for the engine to experience high output fatigue.

This forum is very much a show and tell gathering so............ Where Are Your Pictures. and who is the source for engine control management that you refer to?
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Report this Post07-08-2007 06:06 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post
if you want this swap you need to order a ecu from these guys just go to the link and u will see.
it costs 2000.00 for the ecu and you will need a manual throtle body

http://www.mechtech-ms.com/ctsv6.php
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Report this Post07-08-2007 06:49 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonDirect Link to This Post
I would definately run the cams in a fixed position and use the 730 or 727 ecm to run the engine or a stand alone with additional VVT control ability. I couldn't make myself pay $2k for a computer that wasn't going to be sitting on my desk with a 25" flat screen and Win XP. The manual throttle body is a piece of cake, I have an adaptor to mount the northstar TB to the 3900 already. So far I have two tuning/datalogging computers and WBO2 function for a cost of about $600 that can be used across all of my future projects.

A lot more than just an ECM would have to be included before I could persuade myself to break with that kind of "bread" given the other options available. For about $600 you can get the software and hardware to access much of the engine programming provided you used the OE wiring platform for the engine, I'm not sure how much of the non necessities you can tune out, however, it would probably still require you to use the electric TB and disable the computers ability to second guess your throttle inputs. There are too many other things I want more than an ecm that I would be thinking about in that price range instead.

Make sure it comes with a good warranty, my first programmer was from Accel, it worked okay but was eventually discontinued and reintroduced as a stand alone, in pieces where you bought the pre programmed computer and if you wanted to tune yourself you had to pay an additional $180 for the cable and the software which in the end nearly doubled the cost. I'm a DIY'er all the way now.
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Report this Post07-09-2007 12:31 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post
ok thanks

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 07-09-2007).]

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Report this Post07-09-2007 01:00 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt:

OK how do i post pics is there a step by step to show me how?????


Yes just click on the blue PIP icon at the bottom of this page and follow its instructions after you install the program where in you will be required to post a link into it for proper setup. You will also need to make sure your pictures are within the specified demensions so you may have to set the pixel dimensions on your camera on the conservative side.
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Report this Post07-09-2007 03:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post
the pip is not working says eror 83
dont have any realy cool pick yet the engine is not delivered yet so ive just been ordering parts.
shipment should be here on 10/Aug/07 the delay is because i live in alaska im sorry if i miss lead any one
i have not done the swap yet but sure as sh*t its going down. he swap should be done by 30/Aug/07 this thread was to see if any of u where interested to see the swap on here i think the awnser is yes so when the engine gets here i will post as many picks as possable and full instructions.
agin sorry for missleading anyone.
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Hudini
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Report this Post07-09-2007 09:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for HudiniSend a Private Message to HudiniDirect Link to This Post
See my post above (2nd post to this thread after your first). I posted how to post pictures here using photobucket. Its really easy.
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Report this Post07-16-2007 07:50 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post
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Report this Post07-16-2007 07:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post

3.6lvvt6spdgt

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this engine is suposed to have a 6 bolt main but im not sure.
any way these are pics of the engine im using

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 07-16-2007).]

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Report this Post07-16-2007 08:12 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt:

the pip is not working says eror 83
dont have any realy cool pick yet the engine is not delivered yet so ive just been ordering parts.
shipment should be here on 10/Aug/07 the delay is because i live in alaska im sorry if i miss lead any one
i have not done the swap yet but sure as sh*t its going down. he swap should be done by 30/Aug/07 this thread was to see if any of u where interested to see the swap on here i think the awnser is yes so when the engine gets here i will post as many picks as possable and full instructions.
agin sorry for missleading anyone.


Yes it has a 6 bolt main configuration.
http://media.gm.com/divisio..._v6/global_index.htm

You have to read and follow the instructions carefully for PIP, the quick startup instructions are not to in depth. You are probably getting that error because you haven't gone through the link posting procedure to initialize PIP with your account ID. Linking to your pictures on another site is fine but in the long run it may not help other members seeking to repeat your project as well if that's what you would like to do. After a while the links are allowed to go dead or the pictures are removed resulting in a thread with missing important pictures, in addition to that, members may be required to join the site your pictures are on in order to view them and who wants to do that.

Try the process again, step by step. I'm sure the members would appreciate your progress popping up on the screen automatically with your comments as most here do in their threads. Let us know if you continue to have trouble with it should you still want to post them that way.

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3.6lvvt6spdgt
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Report this Post07-30-2007 02:36 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post
has any one done this yet and how did it go? .......

This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.

This images is larger than 102400 bytes. Click to view.





http://normsfiberglass.com/Tiltfrontendclips.html

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Will
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Report this Post07-30-2007 03:14 PM Click Here to See the Profile for WillSend a Private Message to WillDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt:



Well it doesn't have the same crank bolt pattern as the 2.8 (2.8 has six bolts). The Northstar has 8 bolts, but I have no idea if it's the same circle or not.
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Report this Post07-30-2007 06:34 PM Click Here to See the Profile for p8ntman442Click Here to visit p8ntman442's HomePageSend a Private Message to p8ntman442Direct Link to This Post
Gonna need to modify those valve covers to relocate the oil fill I think. Penuts though.
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Report this Post07-30-2007 06:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for niemann99Send a Private Message to niemann99Direct Link to This Post
Can we get a picture of the bellhousing face? Is it really an M6 bellhousing pattern?
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Report this Post07-30-2007 07:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Toaster_ManSend a Private Message to Toaster_ManDirect Link to This Post
Can't the valve covers just be swapped side to side?
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Report this Post07-31-2007 04:54 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post
your right about the flywheel i think i will have to use a 3800 flywheel
the bell housing pattern that u see on the engine was made to fit bolth fwd and rwd trannys thats why it looks so werd
cant swap valve covers ill just add a fill tube.
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Report this Post07-31-2007 04:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post

3.6lvvt6spdgt

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things are going reallllly slow due to money issues. its costing more than i had planed for and the tunners are still working on the vvt.
but i will not give up i did not buy the engine for nothing
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Report this Post07-31-2007 02:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AJxtcmanSend a Private Message to AJxtcmanDirect Link to This Post
I hope you are aware that you can use a factory PCM.
You can have it tuned by the nice guys at http://www.big3performance.com/home.asp?id=1 They are local here and I have talked with the guy's over at the shop. They have done a lot of Caddy's around here. CTS-V's with blowers. I have heard about 3.6L with blowers, but we haven't had them come into our dealership.
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Report this Post08-01-2007 02:17 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post
i cant use the stock ecu the stock ecu wont work on the fiero due to the electronic TB it would end up costing more to use the stock ecu and it would have less HP cause the stock ECU is detuned for MPG not HP
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Report this Post08-01-2007 06:56 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Joseph UpsonSend a Private Message to Joseph UpsonDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt:

i cant use the stock ecu the stock ecu wont work on the fiero due to the electronic TB it would end up costing more to use the stock ecu and it would have less HP cause the stock ECU is detuned for MPG not HP


They could probably take care of that, if not EFILive is working on it and it appears will have software/hardware completed very shortly since it is appearing on their site already, it will allow programing to eliminate the PCM to BCM interface that apparently causes most of the problem so that the engine can be run with the stock PCM and fabricated wiring harness using the electric throttle body which is not the issue, tuning out torque management where the PCM reinterprets your throttle input into something less is where the electric throttle is a hassle.

That information is directly from them in an email I received inquiring about it, but since it costs ~$750 which is about $125 short of what I have already invested in wide band data logging and emulation hardware/software for much better tuning I'll stick with what I have and the earlier 727 and 730 ECM until some one proves their equipment will do what we really need it to do.

[This message has been edited by Joseph Upson (edited 08-01-2007).]

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wftb
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Report this Post08-01-2007 11:24 AM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbSend a Private Message to wftbDirect Link to This Post
post 12 on this thread mentions GM drag racing this motor in a cobalt .any links to that?i thought all the drag race cobalts have 4cyl ecotecs in them .the drag race teams have managed to pull 1450 hp out of the ecotec but the only stock parts left on that motor i believe are the engine block castings .
i like these new gm v6's .i hope you can get it to work .
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Report this Post08-01-2007 12:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post
here is that link for the gm race engine. 1650 horsepower
http://www.gm.com/company/r...ogy/MattHartford.htm

This is one bad ass engine
When GM Racing entered the NHRA Summit Racing Sport Compact series in 2002, it did so with the primary goal of capitalizing on the extremely stressful demands of side-by-side quarter-mile competition to test the thresholds of production-based components.

The Summit Sport Compact series, like other venues in which GM Racing competes, has allowed engineers to take lessons learned from the racetrack and transfer that technology to the benefit of the consumer.

In less than three years, GM Racing and GM Powertrain engineers have worked together to achieve extraordinary levels of reliability, durability and performance numbers just short of 1100 horsepower with the turbocharged Ecotec 2.0L engine, the same four-cylinder championship powerplant used in the Pro FWD Chevy Cavalier of Nelson Hoyos and the HOT ROD Pontiac Sunfire of Marty Ladwig.

Extensive research and development continues on the turbocharged Ecotec and the drivetrain applications to take advantage of the global four-cylinder engine's increasing levels of horsepower. But GM Racing engineers have now turned their attention to the Pro RWD category and the development of the new high-feature GM global V-6 VVT (variable valve timing) engine being used this year in Matt Hartford's Summit Racing Chevy Cavalier.

The GM global V-6 program, an entirely new clean-sheet engine project, began in February 1999, with the first production application last June in the 2004 Cadillac CTS (followed by the Cadillac SRX, the Buick Rendezvous Ultra and the recently announced Cadillac STS and Buick Lacrosse). The V-6 VVT is designed in a family with a displacement range of 2.8L to 3.8L and architected to be either MPFI (multi-point fuel injection), turbocharged or direct injected.

As configured, the GM global V-6 VVT is capable of being either a rear-wheel drive, transverse front-wheel drive or all-wheel drive in either a transverse or longitudinal configuration. It applies the most advanced automotive engine technology available, from state-of-the-art casting processes, to full four-cam phasing to ultra-fast data processing and torque-based engine management.

This high-tech revolutionary design delivers a market-leading balance of good specific output, high torque over a broad rpm band, superb fuel economy, low emissions and excellent noise, vibration and harshness control, with exclusive durability-enhancing features and very low maintenance.

Because of the strong, sturdy features and proven reliability of the GM global V-6 VVT, only a few modifications were needed to make the engine race-ready for Hartford's Summit Racing Chevrolet.

"There are tremendous benefits to making extreme cases of both load and speed, the kind we see in Pro RWD drag racing," said Bob Jacques, GM base engine design system engineer. "We're competing with an engine with a large percentage of production components and stressing it to well over 1650 horsepower. Therefore, it is safe to say that if the engine can stand up to this type of application then it will definitely meet the demands of the everyday driver at 250 or 260 horsepower."

In December 2003, GM engineers began working with Matt Hartford's Summit Racing team to make the high-feature GM global V-6 3.5 liter VVT engine ready to race.

"We drove the only four-cylinder car in Pro RWD last year," said Hartford. "We wouldn't have even considered the change over to the GM V-6 program if we didn't think it would provide us with the necessary horsepower to win the championship. It would have been much easier to stay with the four-cylinder, maybe add some nitrous, but get it a little more competitive, in the 6.90s or high 6.80s. We would have broken a lot of parts though, and when you see your competition running 6.68 seconds at 211 mph during testing, you realize that you need something more to be competitive again."

In January, Hartford and crew chief/engine builder Mylon Keasler arrived in Detroit and met with GM engineers to discuss the best method of getting the GM global V-6 configuration ready to race. Every component of the engine was meticulously analyzed to determine what changes were needed and where actual production parts could be used to meet the requisite horsepower levels.

With the beginning of the new season a short eight weeks away, the pressure of a tight deadline was obvious to everyone working on the project, and the speed and efficiency in which the race engine was completed was just one of many remarkable aspects of the program.

Since the NHRA limits the engine size in Pro RWD to 3.5L, decisions had to be made on how to reconfigure the production 3.6L V-6 VVT to comply with the sanctioning body's rules. An entire week was spent weighing those options, looking at 3-D models and considering the pros and cons of different design changes. The objective at GM was to take a systematic approach to find an appropriate solution instead of just cutting and chopping in an attempt to make things work.

"We spent the first week just going through computer-generated models and 3-D CAD systems, analyzing and engineering our way to where we needed to be," explained Brent Ingraham, GM design release engineer. "We came up with a couple of different combinations, starting with a base block and knocking the bore down from 94mm to 93mm. Then we went the other way and took a 94mm bore and raised it to 95mm with the idea of seeing what would work best. We then did the same thing working with a shorter stroke and then applying a production stroke."

The project team then moved on to the cylinder heads, trying to determine if production valves or larger aftermarket valves would be used, if a production combustion chamber would be utilized, or if it would be changed slightly to achieve better air flow and tumble. From the first week of January to the middle of February, 3-D models were meticulously examined matching production blocks, heads and crankshafts. Aftermarket pistons, rods, and valves were ordered, and new cam grinds provided the project team with additional options.

In the meantime, Keasler began machining crankshafts and putting short blocks together at the team's engine shop in Maryville, Tenn. Hartford and Keasler, along with team member Bob Moore and chassis builder Don Ness, had already constructed the middle and upper intake back in the middle of December because it had to fit within the carbon-fiber front-end of their new Ness-built Chevy Cavalier Cavalier.

The final race engine was eventually debored and destroked to meet the category rules. Two big twin turbos were added along with a modified upper intake, but the competition engine still maintained its production lower intake, fuel rail and head castings. Although a small liner was pressed into the block to meet the class rules of a 3.5L engine, the block casting, cylinder head castings, and crankshaft all remained production components.

The first engine assembly was completed 10 days before the schedule's first event at Fontana (Calif.), with the first dyno pull coming exactly six days before the first scheduled qualifying pass.

"When that engine started up we were absolutely thrilled," said Ingraham. "Because of all the hard work by everyone involved with this project, it's really hard to describe what we were all feeling. It was pretty exciting to see it on the dyno, have it fire up and then hear it purring like a kitten. We then took the engine apart to make sure everything looked good, reassembled it and then started applying additional load."

After the initial dyno test, the engine was torn down, rebuilt on Monday and Tuesday, and put back on the dyno Wednesday evening to make sure everything was still solid. After another successful test, the engine was loaded on the trailer and it was off to California.

"The engine ran great in Fontana, but we had some drivetrain problems because we made more power than what we anticipated," explained Ingraham. "Since Fontana, the motor's been torn down and everything looks great inside. We've had very few runs on it, so we're still learning the engine's full potential. We're now building a couple of spare engines for Palm Beach to have in our back pocket just in case we need one."

During the 2003 NHRA Pro RWD campaign, Hartford's four-cylinder 2.0L Ecotec-powered Chevy Cavalier won the NHRA Nationals at Sonoma (Calif.) was runner-up at the Northeast Nationals at Atco (N.J.), qualified for every national event and finished sixth in the Pro RWD points standings. The high-feature twin-turbo GM global V-6 has the 32-year-old Arizona resident excited about his chances for the championship in '04.

"The biggest factor is that we've gone from 120 cubic inches up to 210," said Hartford. "Since we ran 7.02 seconds at 192 mph with a four-cylinder engine, then with almost twice the size motor we should be able to run in the 6.60s at around 215 mph. Last year we had to run our program as efficiently as possible to be successful. Other teams could afford to make four or five mistakes going down the track, but we had to be spot-on perfect to have any chance of winning any rounds. Everything from the tune-up on the engine, to the tune-up on the clutch, to the gearing in the rear end was right on the edge of being as fast and as lightweight as it could be, yet strong enough to make it to the other end.

"We came into the new year and built a brand-new car with a brand-new engine program with one goal in mind - to win the championship. The new GM global V-6 now makes that possible."

GM engineers are also certain the larger high-feature global V-6 will provide the Summit Racing Chevrolet with the essential horsepower to contend for this year's championship.

"We're confident that the new engine will be competitive for its class and its power target," said Don Taylor, GM group manager of drag racing. "Matt's an exceptional driver and last year he was the only driver in Pro RWD to qualify for every race, and that was with a four cylinder engine. This year, with the GM 3.5L twin-turbo V-6, the feeling here is that the Summit Racing Chevrolet can be much more competitive and challenge for the championship.

"We race in Sport Compact to push the parts and technology to the extreme and to reach the highest performance level. With the twin-turbo V-6, we're now making over 1650 horsepower, but that's just the beginning point, not the end point. Like everything we do at GM Racing, we will continue to develop it, stress it harder and run it faster. With the performance potential of this engine, we're only beginning to scratch the surface."

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wftb
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Report this Post08-01-2007 01:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for wftbSend a Private Message to wftbDirect Link to This Post
thanks for the info , a good write up .the only thing i dont understand is how they went from 2.0 to 3.5 L's and stayed in the same class .do they apply a weight penalty ,or is this an open class where everything goes ?
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Eau_Rouge
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Report this Post08-01-2007 01:41 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Eau_RougeSend a Private Message to Eau_RougeDirect Link to This Post
Hey guy's, I know this question has been asked before and so far, no one seems to know for sure so I'll ask again. Does anyone know how much this 3.6L vvt engine weighs fully dressed? I'd really love to know as I'm considering either this engine for a swap - already have the g6 6 speed or the 2.0 ecotec SC which weigh approx 330 lbs fully dressed incuding the supercharger.

On that note, does anyone know if the 3.6L engine bolts up directly to the G6 6 speed? Does it have the same bolt pattern as the fiero's 2.8L V6?
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3.6lvvt6spdgt
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Report this Post08-01-2007 04:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post
like i said before and if u read the long post above you will see that the engine was made to fit bolth fwd and rwd transmissions so yes it will bolt up to the 5spd and 6spd transverse transmissions the big problem is the flywheel, i dont know of one that works with the fwd apps the made a cts with a manual but i dont know if it would work with the transverse transmission.
The engine weighs 370 lb as installed in the cts cadillac so u could probly remove about 20-40 pounds from that cause you dont need power steering, ac. engine top cover ect....

i dont know about the drag racing rules i guess you would have to look it up

[This message has been edited by 3.6lvvt6spdgt (edited 08-01-2007).]

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Eau_Rouge
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Report this Post08-01-2007 10:27 PM Click Here to See the Profile for Eau_RougeSend a Private Message to Eau_RougeDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt:

like i said before and if u read the long post above you will see that the engine was made to fit bolth fwd and rwd transmissions so yes it will bolt up to the 5spd and 6spd transverse transmissions the big problem is the flywheel, i dont know of one that works with the fwd apps the made a cts with a manual but i dont know if it would work with the transverse transmission.
The engine weighs 370 lb as installed in the cts cadillac so u could probly remove about 20-40 pounds from that cause you dont need power steering, ac. engine top cover ect....

i dont know about the drag racing rules i guess you would have to look it up




Yeah, sorry for the redundant question. I asked the same question - about whether the CTS 3.6L can bolt up directly to a transverse transmission and the answers that I got were that the CTS 3.6L would only bolt up to a longitudinal transmission. I just wanted to hear it from someone who has actually seen this engine and knows for sure.

Thanks again and look forward to seeing this swap completed!
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AJxtcman
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Report this Post08-01-2007 11:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for AJxtcmanSend a Private Message to AJxtcmanDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by 3.6lvvt6spdgt:



Is this your engine?
It is not from a CTS, but from a FWD car or van.
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3.6lvvt6spdgt
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Report this Post08-02-2007 04:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for 3.6lvvt6spdgtSend a Private Message to 3.6lvvt6spdgtDirect Link to This Post
the reason i picked the engine above in pic is because the intake is facing the rite direction for the fiero, its the same engine block as the cts, but is cheeper to buy, and its built for the fwd trans. you could still mount a cts if u wanted but this is the same engine and will be easier to do the good donnor cars are.

2004 Buick Rendezvous CXL/Ultra
2005 Buick LaCrosse CXS
2007 Saturn Aura XR
2007 Saturn Outlook
2007 Pontiac G6 GTP
2007 GMC Acadia

or you could get new oil pan and intake and other verious item and turn you cts engine into this one.
but i assure u this is the same 3.6l VVT as the CTS
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